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Mrs. J

Why The Word 'kaffir' Is Illegal In South Africa

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No its not , the word itself does not mean what it means in Islam which is someone A faith rejector or smeone who has done blasphemy , rather its a racist remark that equates the American "N" racist word.

 

Its not a dialect thing period , yes pronunciation does make a difference in this case since its two different words to start with and you trying to prove it other wise us pure baloney smile.gif .

 

Al Faqeer,

 

The word was adopted by Europeans who heard Arab slave traders refer to black people as Kaffirs (in a religious context). Even before I took the time to learn about Islam, I knew what Kaffir meant because it's widely known, hence it is so offensive. Some people refer to black people as kaffirs (impious wretches) only because of the colour of their skin which is why it is considered a racial slur, not that kaffir is means black (like the 'N' word which is derived from negro). Europeans didn't come up with the word Kaffir. The same word is being used, though the contexts or motivations differ. This is the same word, hence you will find the ethnic element in dictionaries and encyclopaedias. I would urge you to read wikipedia's entry, but whether you choose to accept the facts or deny them is your prerogative.

 

Take care.

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PropellerAds

Its still not the same word , even if you are right and the root of the word is that , the word evolved into something else totally different from the original word in use and pronunciation .

 

Kaaa-firr

 

and Kufa or Kafi-r . its chalk and cheese .

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No soul has authority over another. Guidance and straying is a matter between God and you.

 

 

 

aakwrAllahwbHu

 

 

 

Hey again, my dear sister! :sl: I would have preferred not to, but I will reply to what you said because (I just realized that) it has repercussions on a particular facet of what I believe. So, here goes.

 

I've never believed that Islam refers to Africans in particular as Kaffirs, so yes, I am talking about the religious context.

 

JazakAllah for clarifying your intention.

 

 

Is one eager to treat an "impious wretch who denies God" in a respectful manner? Such a label is not appealing and I believe that this is the reason Muslim traders enslaved Africans and others.

 

I don't refer to Muslims as infidels or impious wretches because they don't believe in the crucifixion or resurrection of Yeshua [Jesus], nor will I ever refer to anyone as an infidel because I see no need for that and I wasn't taught to do that. I don't believe that Islam is the 'one true religion' so I am not concealing a truth since I do not believe it to be true. I believe in treating all people with respect and love regardless of their religion or race.

 

I already proposed that we settle upon kafir as meaning one who knowingly conceals the truth to oppose it. If you are saying that you unconditionally love and respect such a person then to do so by all means; however, the Bible clearly has other ideas.

 

 

Alhamdu lillahi Rabbil aalameen.

 

 

 

la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Al-‘Atheemu Al-Haleemu, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbul ‘arshil-‘atheemi, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbus-samaawaati wa Rabbul-ardhi wa Rabbul-‘arshil-kareemi

there is no god except Allah, the All-Mighty, the Forbearing; there is no god except Allah, the Lord of the Mighty Throne;

there is no god except Allah, Lord of the heavens, Lord of the earth and Lord of the noble Throne.

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I am of mixed ethnicity (black, white, indain, asian) and I have been called a kaffir by a white person. I did not retaliate nor was I really hurt by it but it’s not a nice thing to say!

 

Right, it isn't a nice thing to say. But there are other words besides "kaffir" that can be used to denigrate a person. I needn't mention what those words are, but they are spoken by people of all religions, all over the world. Now whether you choose to accept this fact or deny it is your prerogative. :sl:

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Right, it isn't a nice thing to say. But there are other words besides "kaffir" that can be used to denigrate a person. I needn't mention what those words are, but they are spoken by people of all religions, all over the world. Now whether you choose to accept this fact or deny it is your prerogative. :sl:

 

 

Good one : )

 

What strange and nonsensical ways people come up to attack Islam. Why so many Christians today behave this way is beyond me. I have Christians coming to my organizations website and leaving slurs against Islam and our Prophet (peace be upon him). This is apparently a new way they interpret their beliefs. Perhaps a new version of "white man's burden".

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Right, it isn't a nice thing to say. But there are other words besides "kaffir" that can be used to denigrate a person. I needn't mention what those words are, but they are spoken by people of all religions, all over the world. Now whether you choose to accept this fact or deny it is your prerogative.

White Warrior, I do not deny that there are other slurs out there. I created this post to warn people not to call anyone a Kaffir in South Africa because it is illegal.

 

I already proposed that we settle upon kafir as meaning one who knowingly conceals the truth to oppose it. If you are saying that you unconditionally love and respect such a person then to do so by all means; however, the Bible clearly has other ideas.

Please elaborate.

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No soul has authority over another. Guidance and straying is a matter between God and you.

 

 

 

aakwrAllahwbHu

 

 

Please elaborate.

 

The part about Bible having other ideas? JazakAllah.

 

 

Alhamdu lillahi Rabbil aalameen.

 

 

 

la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Al-‘Atheemu Al-Haleemu, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbul ‘arshil-‘atheemi, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbus-samaawaati wa Rabbul-ardhi wa Rabbul-‘arshil-kareemi

there is no god except Allah, the All-Mighty, the Forbearing; there is no god except Allah, the Lord of the Mighty Throne;

there is no god except Allah, Lord of the heavens, Lord of the earth and Lord of the noble Throne.

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Again the Word Muslims Use Kaafir and the word Kafa or Kufa or Cafir however you pronounce it , its not the same.

 

If the kaafir word muslims used was banned as you say Masjids would be closed and its Imams arrested .

 

:sl:

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The word ‘kaffir’ is a racial slur used to describe a black person. It was first used by Arab traders who had contact with South Africans on our East coast – mainly the Zulu empire and then it was adopted by Europeans during the colonial and apartheid era and is as offensive as the ‘N’ word in the U.S. although it is not used as much as a colloquial term here. It is extremely offensive and I have heard that some Imams avoid the word altogether during their kutba’s (sermons) so as not to offend black members of the congregation. Some black people are put off by Islam for the reason that it is the source of this slur.

 

In South Africa, dignity is a constitutional right therefore to infringe on someone else’s right to dignity is a crime and is punishable by law. A person charged with crimen injuria, defined as the act of unlawfully, intentionally, and seriously impairing the dignity of another, may face prosecution in our criminal court system or our equality court system or the case may be heard at the constitutional court. Most people charged with crimen injuria have faced harsh fines and community service but jail time is not out of the question.

 

It is impolite and risky to use the word – even if your intention is not to be offensive. A couple of years back the reserve bank governor (a black man) used the word at a press conference telling a white reporter that ‘he was not to be considered a kaffir’ (or something along those lines) and was taken to task by the human rights commission.

 

I am of mixed ethnicity (black, white, indain, asian) and I have been called a kaffir by a white person. I did not retaliate nor was I really hurt by it but it’s not a nice thing to say!

 

 

The word kaffir literally mean to cover, its description is like a gardener who covers a seed in a garden thats what kaffir is , so a kaffir is a person who covers up something that is visible, when referring to religion a kaffir is someone who knows the truth but covers it up and denies the truth. Its like a gardener who covers a seed then denies that there is even a seed there. The Arabic language never refers to a race or ethnicity as a kaffir and neither does the Quran, A kaffir is a disbeliever as well and kuff is disbelief.

 

So in order to be a kaffir one has to recognize truth and then cover it up like it doesn’t even exist. And our Prophet Muhammad forbade us from calling people kaffirs he said he who calls another person a kaffir then surely one of you is the kaffir. When it came into contact with South Africans on the East coast it was never used to talk negatively of the black people.

 

In fact the Traders was so respected with the way they did business and conducted themselves that the africans enquired about their religion, and they was taught the Quran in which has the description of what a kaffir is. Also keep in mind that the word africa did not exist back then africa was a name given to that land after it and during the colonialzation of it.

 

Keep in mind also that you had thousands of black arabs as well and if the term was referring to black people then i dont think the moors of spain would have been too successful. I don’t think that black arabs would have accepted Islam either.

 

Now as far it being used a a term to name call well then thats in the mouths of evil people and like our Prophet said if someone calls a person a kaffir then SURELY one of them is the kaffir. So if a person calls you a kaffir and your not a person who covers up truth or your not a person that has recognized truth and tried to cover it up, then the person calling you a kaffir is the kaffir. And you dont have to say a word to those type of evil minded people.

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I created this post to warn people not to call anyone a Kaffir in South Africa because it is illegal.

 

It's illegal? Where did you get this piece of information from? Please cite your source. If you can't provide the source then there is no point wasting time in this pointless discussion. Thanks.

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It's illegal? Where did you get this piece of information from? Please cite your source. If you can't provide the source then there is no point wasting time in this pointless discussion. Thanks.

It is illegal, hence the title of this topic. It's a crime to injure another's dignity, thus slurs (racial, gender, sexuality) are unconstitutional. Why would I make up such a thing? To attack Islam? You're so cynical.

 

Crimen injuria is a crime under South African common law, defined to be the act of "unlawfully, intentionally and seriously impairing the dignity of another." Although difficult to precisely define, the crime is used in the prosecution of certain instances of road rage , stalking , racially offensive language , emotional or psychological abuse and sexual offences against children. The Truth and reconciliation commission heard numerous cases of crimen injuria, usually coupled with assault, committed by intelligence services on both sides of the struggle against apartheid.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Crimen_injuria"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Crimen_injuria[/url]

 

You can face a fine, jail time, community service, and you can be taken to the constitutional court or civil court system or equality court system where you may have to fork out financial compensation. It's illegal, hence it's referred to as the 'K' word. It's not allowed on radio or TV because it would violate the terms of the Broadcaster's Code of Conduct which prohibits any vulgur language or hate speech (this word is considered hate speech).

 

In 2000, the parliament of South African enacted Act No. 4 of 2000: Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act. that contains the following clause relating to hate speech:

 

10. (1) Subject to the proviso in section 12. no person may publish, propagate, advocate or communicate words based on one or more of the prohibited grounds, against any person, that could reasonably be construed to demonstrate a clear intention to -

 

(a) be hurtful;

(b) be harmful or to incite harm;

© promote or propagate hatred.

 

Though the Act does not list any specific words, it is generally understood to restrict the use of the words kaffir, koelie, hotnot, meid and other derogatory racial terms.

 

Notwithstanding the end of Apartheid and the above mentioned Act, use of the word continues today.

 

In 2000 during the State of the Nation address at the Opening of the South African Parliament reference was made to an internal email of the South African Food and Allied Workers Union that read ...I would like to summarise what the Kaffirs have done to stuff up this country since they came into power...[14]

 

In February 2008 there was huge media and public outcry in South Africa after Irvin Khoza, then chairperson of the 2010 FIFA World Cup organizing committee, used the term during a press briefing in reference to a journalist.[15][16][17][18]

 

A statement made during the March 5, 2008 sitting of the South African Parliament shows how the usage of the word is seen today:[19]

 

We should take care not to use derogatory words that were used to demean black persons in this country. Words such as ‘Kaffir’, ‘coolie’, ‘Boesman’, ‘hotnot’ and many others have negative connotations and remain offensive as they were used to degrade, undermine and strip South Africans of their humanity and dignity.

 

The phrase 'the K-word' is now often used to avoid using the word 'kaffir' itself, similar to 'the N-word', used to represent 'nigger'.

 

Here is the Government Gazette: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetinfo.gov.za/gazette/acts/2000/a4-00.pdf"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetinfo.gov.za/gazette/acts/2000/a4-00.pdf[/url]

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetdoj.gov.za/m_statements/2004/2004_11_27_equality.pdf"]"Press Statement: Public awareness campaign on Equality Courts"[/url]

 

Now as far it being used a a term to name call well then thats in the mouths of evil people and like our Prophet said if someone calls a person a kaffir then SURELY one of them is the kaffir. So if a person calls you a kaffir and your not a person who covers up truth or your not a person that has recognized truth and tried to cover it up, then the person calling you a kaffir is the kaffir. And you dont have to say a word to those type of evil minded people.

I agree. Thanks for your comment.

 

The part about Bible having other ideas? JazakAllah.

 

Yes, Brother Asadullah. Please elaborate.

 

If the kaafir word muslims used was banned as you say Masjids would be closed and its Imams arrested .

Hi Brother al faqeer, I've never been in a Masjid, but I heard that Islamic preachers avoid using the word.

 

Peace everyone.

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:sl: Even after all your wannabe copy and paste baloney .

 

You still havent proved that Muslims dont use the word kaafir in their Masjids .

 

if it was banned as you said , and the word Kaafir equals the word Kafa then prove that its not used is Masjids .

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I'm not insinuating that it's a mistake, but like I said, it's a generalisation. If the Quran made it clear that the majority believe in blah blah blah, then you wouldn't be surprised to learn of Unitarian minority.

 

You probably shouldn't take "Redeem" as your basis for your argument that Muslims in general aren't aware that Unitarian Christians (still) exist. The Qur'an makes it clear that there are those who believe that Jesus is divine. It also makes it clear that there were those who believed correctly regarding Jesus.

 

What I personally think (on the basis that I haven't met a single Unitarian Christian since I lived in Kenya as a young child) has nothing to do with what Islam teaches.

 

So now the majority reflects the whole? So if I search for something online, and read mostly the fatwas and words from intolerant Muslims, should I assume that this reflects the sentiments of all Muslims?

 

Did the verse address every single Christian in existence? Did it say "all Christians"? You're assuming that it does, despite the fact that many other verses make it clear otherwise.

 

The Christians that it does address are those who have taken Jesus as a son of God. It says that people have taken Jesus as the son of God. It doesn't say "some", it doesn't say "all". The distinction is clear to those who don't leap to conclusions.

 

I haven't proposed that, have I? The word is still derogatory, whether it is used to refer to non-Muslims or Africans because when we look at who Muslims enslaved and conquered, it's the kaffirs. In order to enslave someone, you've got to have dehumanised them. The word is attached to the dehuminsation of non-Muslims and Africans by Muslim traders and Europeans. It has a negative connotation just like 'infidel' and 'negro' and the 'N' word. Use it all you want, but I still disagree with it. I feel what I feel and you feel what you feel.

Does this make you want to love and respect a Kaffir?

 

Your negative feelings toward a word that is used in a different way in your country has made you reach these conclusions. Kufr means disbelief. Kaffir means the one who disbelieves. I could call you a non-Muslim and that word would be no more affectionate.

 

Salam.

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No soul has authority over another. Guidance and straying is a matter between God and you.

 

 

 

aakwrAllahwbHu

 

 

Hey again, my dear sister. :sl:

 

 

Yes, Brother Asadullah. Please elaborate.

 

Inshallah, my knowledgeable sister.

 

 

John 8:

 

(12-29) Jesus is addressing the people.

 

30. Then many who heard him say these things believed in him.

 

(31-43) Jesus addresses those who believed in him. Very shortly a dispute arises between them.

 

44. For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.

 

 

Jesus' reflection on the believers who disputed a part of what he was saying: haters of truth, lovers and doers of evil, children of their father the devil.

 

Where's the love and respect that you claim? Certainly not in the Bible.

 

Even if you claim that he is calling impious wretches other than the ones who believed in him, it still doesn't explain where your idea of love and respect for those who conceal and oppose the truth comes from. Certainly not from the Bible.

 

Wherefore I say that love and respect the ones you will, but the Bible certainly has other ideas.

 

 

Alhamdu lillahi Rabbil aalameen.

 

 

 

la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Al-‘Atheemu Al-Haleemu, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbul ‘arshil-‘atheemi, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbus-samaawaati wa Rabbul-ardhi wa Rabbul-‘arshil-kareemi

there is no god except Allah, the All-Mighty, the Forbearing; there is no god except Allah, the Lord of the Mighty Throne;

there is no god except Allah, Lord of the heavens, Lord of the earth and Lord of the noble Throne.

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Though the Act does not list any specific words, it is generally understood to restrict the use of the words kaffir, koelie, hotnot, meid and other derogatory racial terms.

Thank you samantha-g for citing the source of your information. It was very interesting to learn something about South Africa and how efforts have been made to stop the use of derogatory racial terms. But what you have cited only shows that attempts have been made to stop the use of those words. The fact and reality remains that despite these attempts, people still continue to use those words today:

Notwithstanding the end of Apartheid and the above mentioned Act, use of the word continues today.

Kinda reminds me of the time when America banned alcohol and made it illegal. It didn't work. :sl:

Edited by White Warrior

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Asadullah, I will create a topic today to discuss that excerpt because many on this site seem not to understand it. Take care. :sl:

 

Your negative feelings toward a word that is used in a different way in your country has made you reach these conclusions. Kufr means disbelief. Kaffir means the one who disbelieves. I could call you a non-Muslim and that word would be no more affectionate.

I dislike the term whether it's used in a religious or racial context because it has a negative connotation. It is not less inflammatory like "non-Muslim". Would you like me to refer to you as an "impious wretch" or an "infidel" just because you deny the crucifixion and resurrection? Again, Sister, use it all you want but I dislike the term and you can't change how I feel.

 

Take care.

 

Hi Brother White Warrior, you are welcome. The current law is a deterrent though some still use the word. Yeah, it's not full-proof just like any other law - people know they can go to jail for drink driving and theft but some still do it, and in some Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia people can face severe punishments for adultery and murder but some still choose to commit such acts. That's free will for you. :sl: You could lay a complaint against me or sue me for calling you an 'infidel' here!!!

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No soul has authority over another. Guidance and straying is a matter between God and you.

 

 

 

aakwrAllahwbHu

 

 

Asadullah, I will create a topic today to discuss that excerpt because many on this site seem not to understand it. Take care. :sl:

 

Inshallah, my respected sister. I will respond to it over here, for its relevance to the claims you have been making (over here) about Quran, Bible, and insults.

 

 

Alhamdu lillahi Rabbil aalameen.

 

 

 

la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Al-‘Atheemu Al-Haleemu, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbul ‘arshil-‘atheemi, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbus-samaawaati wa Rabbul-ardhi wa Rabbul-‘arshil-kareemi

there is no god except Allah, the All-Mighty, the Forbearing; there is no god except Allah, the Lord of the Mighty Throne;

there is no god except Allah, Lord of the heavens, Lord of the earth and Lord of the noble Throne.

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Bottom line is , that Muslims in Their Masjids use the word Kafir in their sermons freely , no one stops them from using the word , which means that Samantha's argument in shadow boxing :sl: .

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Would you like me to refer to you as an "impious wretch" or an "infidel" just because you deny the crucifixion and resurrection? Again, Sister, use it all you want but I dislike the term and you can't change how I feel.

 

I know this is directed at sister Redeem. I think that's rather disrespectful. Now I could call you all sorts of names. But I'll refrain despite how I feel about it. It's a teaching in the Qur'an. We're taught to repel evil with good and that it's better to overlook and forgive rather than seek vengeance and retaliate in kind.

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The current law is a deterrent though some still use the word. Yeah, it's not full-proof just like any other law - people know they can go to jail for drink driving and theft but some still do it, and in some Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia people can face severe punishments for adultery and murder but some still choose to commit such acts. That's free will for you. :sl: You could lay a complaint against me or sue me for calling you an 'infidel' here!!!

 

Glad you finally figured out what we are ALL creatures of free will. You're not the only one who has it.

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Al Faqeer, think what you want to. The fact remain the facts, whether you like them or not. If I hear the word Kafir on tv, radio or read it I can lay a complaint at the Human Rights Commission - whether the word is used in a racial or religious context if it is derogatory. Again, I hear preachers avoid using the term in their sermons so as not to offend people.

 

Glad you finally figured out what we are ALL creatures of free will. You're not the only one who has it.

:sl: I never thought that Muslims did not practice free-will, my friend. "Finally"? :no:

 

I am not calling Redeem those things, I am asking her if she would like it or not. I've never called anyone such things and I never will. I am not retaliating; I accept that she has her opinion which is why I said, "use it [the word kafir] all you want". You're over-complicating things. :sl:

Edited by samantha-g

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Al Faqeer, think what you want to. The fact remain the facts, whether you like them or not. If I hear the word Kafir on tv, radio or read it I can lay a complaint at the Human Rights Commission - whether the word is used in a racial or religious context if it is derogatory. Again, I hear preachers avoid using the term in their sermons so as not to offend people.

 

And this is how it is in South Africa. I wonder, is it also enforced on the internet?

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And this is how it is in South Africa. I wonder, is it also enforced on the internet?

 

Hello White Warrior

 

I have seen it on one racist site, but upon receiving a complaint, the authorities have to act if the site is based in South Africa. I have not submitted a complaint about the site I saw.

 

John 8:

 

(12-29) Jesus is addressing the people.

 

30. Then many who heard him say these things believed in him.

 

(31-43) Jesus addresses those who believed in him. Very shortly a dispute arises between them.

 

44. For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.

 

 

Jesus' reflection on the believers who disputed a part of what he was saying: haters of truth, lovers and doers of evil, children of their father the devil.

 

Where's the love and respect that you claim? Certainly not in the Bible.

 

Even if you claim that he is calling impious wretches other than the ones who believed in him, it still doesn't explain where your idea of love and respect for those who conceal and oppose the truth comes from. Certainly not from the Bible.

 

Wherefore I say that love and respect the ones you will, but the Bible certainly has other ideas.

 

Hello AsadullaHamza,

 

Jesus said to the people who believed in him, “You are truly my disciples if you remain faithful to my teachings. 32 And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Yes, I realize that you are descendants of Abraham. And yet some of you are trying to kill me because there’s no room in your hearts for my message. 38 I am telling you what I saw when I was with my Father. But you are following the advice of your father.”

“Our father is Abraham!” they declared.

“No,” Jesus replied, “for if you were really the children of Abraham, you would follow his example.[a] 40 Instead, you are trying to kill me because I told you the truth, which I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing. 41 No, you are imitating your real father.”

They replied, “We aren’t illegitimate children! God himself is our true Father.”

Jesus told them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, because I have come to you from God. I am not here on my own, but he sent me. 43 Why can’t you understand what I am saying? It’s because you can’t even hear me! 44 For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies. So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me!

 

It is sometimes said that in this case Jesus referred to “the Jews” as the children of satan. They were Jews but he was referring to his own believers:

 

“Jesus said to the people who believed in him...” (verse 1.) or “some of the Jews who believed in him” in some translations.

 

“And yet some of you are truing to kill me because there’s no room in your hearts for my message.” (Verse 37.)

 

Jesus was himself a Jew – as were his disciples, family and followers – so it’s impossible and illogical that he referred to the Jewish race or followers of Judaism as the progeny of Satan as a way to insult them or dehumanise them. Christianity had not yet ‘deviated’ from Judaism at the time that Jesus made this statement. Furthermore, the Gospel of John was written to accommodate Gentile audiences as well as Jewish believers which is the reason why explanatory information about Jewish practices which would be common knowledge to Jews and not known by non-Jews can be found throughout this gospel, hence “the Jews” is used here.

 

There is another example of Jesus calling someone Satan, and this time it was his very own disciple, Peter:

 

From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!”

Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

 

Matthew 16:21-24 (New International Version)

 

Jesus obviously did not believe that Peter was Satan incarnate, rather, he was using a common expression. In Judaism and in some forms of Christianity, Satan is not an actual person as is the case in Islam and most of Christianity. Satan (Hebrew), or Satana (Aramaic) means “accuser,” “adversary,” “hinderer,” or “tempter” and can be a person or thing which impedes or distracts you from completing God’s work or righteousness and faith, or someone who accuses you. Through mistranslations and theological divergence from the Bible, Satan was portrayed as the ruler of hell and the embodiment of evil. Satan is referred to as “he” or presented as an actual person in the Bible (and sometimes an actual human being is called satan, as Peter was), but also, it is not uncommon in the Bible to see nouns being referred to as if they are people:

 

James 1:4,

 

“But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.”

 

Proverbs 8:1-5,

 

Does not wisdom call out? Does not understanding raise her voice? On the heights along the way, where the paths meet, she takes her stand; beside the gates leading into the city, at the entrances, she cries aloud: "To you, O men, I call out; I raise my voice to all mankind. You who are simple, gain prudence; you who are foolish, gain understanding.”

 

Both patience and wisdom are not human beings, yet they presented as such.

 

Jesus was not implying that they were literally the children of Satan. These insincere believers were the children of ‘Satan’ in that they were under ‘his’ command or ‘his’ influence, just as the children of Abraham follow his example, and God’s children are under his influence and command. Therefore, had he called them the servants of satan, or said, “Your real master is Satan,” or even, “You are the children of disbelief/murder” it would have meant the same thing.

 

Here is some additional commentary: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_bible.cc/john/8-44.htm"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_bible.cc/john/8-44.htm[/url]

 

As to how those who reject the message are to be treated, Jesus never ordered us to persecute those who rejected his message, nor did he order us to seek revenge upon those who plotted to kill him. He helped many non-Jews out of compassion without asking them to convert to Judaism before or after the fact. A perfect example of Jesus’ teachings on how to treat people who are "different" from you (whether it is religion or race) is the Parable of the Good Samaritan:

 

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

 

(Samaritans and Jews generally despised each other.)

 

I hope this has shed some light on the matter.

Edited by samantha-g

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No soul has authority over another. Guidance and straying is a matter between God and you.

 

 

 

aakwrAllahwbHu

 

 

Cool, my dear sister. :sl:

 

May Allah guide us along the straight path. Take care. :sl:

 

 

Alhamdu lillahi Rabbil aalameen.

 

 

 

la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Al-‘Atheemu Al-Haleemu, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbul ‘arshil-‘atheemi,

la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbus-samaawaati wa Rabbul-ardhi wa Rabbul-‘arshil-kareemi

there is no god except Allah, the All-Mighty, the Forbearing; there is no god except Allah, the Lord of the Mighty Throne;

there is no god except Allah, Lord of the heavens, Lord of the earth and Lord of the noble Throne.

Edited by AsadullahHamza

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