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"And, more importantly, how can something be "truly God" and "truly man," when "truly God" trumps "truly man" and what does that mean in terms of a redemptive sacrifice of one's own self, even if that self is just a lesser part? I cut off my arm as a sacrifice to myself in order to save you from my wrath? Is that the thrust here? Because I require a sacrifice in order to save you (a blood sacrifice, no less) and that sacrifice has to be "pure" in order for it to work in my mind, I therefore cut off my own arm (a "pure" arm) in order to satisfy my own requirments, therefore making the requirement larger than myself?"

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PropellerAds

Hi Orthodox.

 

You clearly do not know much about Christianity if you are able to simplify it like this.

 

This is my personal view:

 

It does not make sense to me for God to demand a ransom which He Himself would pay, nor to require atonement sacrifice which He would offer. Many Christians take the atonement thing literally when I see it as figurative. Atonement and sacrifice was common in the Jewish tradition in those days.

The death and resurrection of Jesus on the cross is what it would take to get people to listen to Jesus.

 

I’ll explain tomorrow with scriptural references, it’s late.

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This was one of the many reasons I couldn't accept the legitimacy of Christianity. The infinite, perfect creator would hardly need to jump through hoops to redeem humanity.

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Hi Orthodox.

 

You clearly do not know much about Christianity if you are able to simplify it like this.

 

This is my personal view:

 

It does not make sense to me for God to demand a ransom which He Himself would pay, nor to require atonement sacrifice which He would offer. Many Christians take the atonement thing literally when I see it as figurative. Atonement and sacrifice was common in the Jewish tradition in those days.

The death and resurrection of Jesus on the cross is what it would take to get people to listen to Jesus.

 

I’ll explain tomorrow with scriptural references, it’s late.

 

Hello [smile], this wasn't written by me just so you know. I find personal views worthless because they are not used as teachings from the religion is question.

Edited by Orthodox

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Hello [smile], this wasn't written by me just so you know. I find personal views worthless because they are not used as teachings from the religion is question.

 

They are useful because the Bible is full of prophesies that use metaphors. It is through the interpretation that 'doctrine comes about'.

 

Why do you care anyway?

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Why do you care anyway?

 

I though Christians had an answer. They probably do. Smile.

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"And, more importantly, how can something be "truly God" and "truly man," when "truly God" trumps "truly man" and what does that mean in terms of a redemptive sacrifice of one's own self, even if that self is just a lesser part? I cut off my arm as a sacrifice to myself in order to save you from my wrath? Is that the thrust here? Because I require a sacrifice in order to save you (a blood sacrifice, no less) and that sacrifice has to be "pure" in order for it to work in my mind, I therefore cut off my own arm (a "pure" arm) in order to satisfy my own requirments, therefore making the requirement larger than myself?"

 

 

What's the point in posting this? Who is saying this anyway? I'm sure Christians have their reasons why they believe what they do.

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Do you see my questionmark anywhere above? Maybe this answers why I am posting it. Muslims are allowed to challenge Christians. Christians are allowed to challenge non-Muslims. Is there a problem?

 

Your posts tend to be informal. Approach asking with humility and not an argumentative, insulting tone, if you are seeking answers from anyone. I dislike investing time in waste of time arguments.

Edited by Orthodox

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Muslims are allowed to challenge Christians.

 

 

Really? Is that one of the reasons why this forum is set up? To challenge people of other faiths and beliefs, mock at them, laugh at them, make fun of them? I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like humility to me.

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Really? Is that one of the reasons why this forum is set up? To challenge people of other faiths and beliefs, mock at them, laugh at them, make fun of them? I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like humility to me.

What have those who made this forum have to do with a poster who made a topic? Are you blaming them for what one poster has done? Or are you trying to make me feel compelled to reply, making me feel blameful?

 

What has this topic have to do with making fun, mocking, and laughing? Everyone was serious.

 

And what has a challenge to do with mocking, making fun, ridiculing, etc???

 

Forgive me if I sound harsh. I do not take my words lightly even though sometimes I do. Maybe silence would be better when we aren't achieving much, no?

Edited by Orthodox

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Salvation

 

Some Christians think salvation is believing that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Saviour, but true salvation from sin come to one who applies Jesus’ teachings and follows his example. He teaches us a new life and knowledge that when applied frees a person from sin. Now we’re all human, everyone makes mistakes, so I do not claim that all Christians are free from sin, but those who have applied Jesus teachings may sin very rarely.

 

Atonement and offering

 

In the Bible we learn that atonement and offering was the way God and his people would relate to each other. But we also learn that God wanted much more:

 

“I desire mercy not sacrifice, and acknowledgement of God rather than burnt offerings.†Hosea 6:6

 

“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and as much as in obeying the voice of the Lord? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams.†1 Samuel 15:22

 

They were substituting sacrifice for devotion and spirituality, substituting doing good with being good. I believe God wants us to be good people and not just do good deeds. A person can do good deeds and still be ugly on the inside.

 

This is also why Jesus said that the greatest commandment is to “Love your God, with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your understanding, and with all your strength†and in a wise response a Jewish teacher of the law said to him, “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love with all heart, with all your understanding, and with all your strength and to love your neighbour as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.†Jesus responded and said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.†Matthew 12:28-34

So Jesus brought an end to the old Jewish covenant and brought in a new one, a new way of relating to God which goes beyond temples and sacrifices, and is about being rather than doing.

 

Why the crucifixion?

 

The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is incredible. This epitomises his teachings of ‘eternal life’. The crucifixion and resurrection is also what it would take for people to listen. The passage in Exodus 4:1 – 8 is an example when God told Moses to throw his staff on the ground and watched it turn into a snake and also watched his hand turn white as if it were leprous. God said to Moses:

 

“If they do not believe you or pay attention to the first sign, they may believe the second.†Exodus 4:8

 

As we also know from Exodus, God has used shock tactics as the Egyptians experienced. So Jesus’ death and resurrected was indeed a way of getting our attention. Once we pay attention, we listen to the teaching, and then apply it, and attain salvation. This is what it means that he died for the sins of the world, that he bore our infirmities. The atonement and sacrificial aspect is metaphorical because why would God demand a ransom he would pay, or a sacrifice he would offer? It doesn't make sense. It's very dramatic like a epic myth (no offense). God always speaks to people in a way in which they will understand, and the Jews understood sacrifice.

 

Make some sense now?

 

By the way, I am not alone in this perspective, there are others it’s just that we’re not the majority.

 

Also, this does not simply Christianity. It's as if I said the Shahada is the beginning and end of Islam.

 

 

To Orthodox, and everyone else reading this:

May God bless you abundantly in the next year and fill your life with love and happiness and fulfilment. Amen!

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No soul has authority over another. Guidance and straying is a matter between God and you.

 

 

aakwrAllahwbHu

 

 

Sister samantha-g says:

 

To Orthodox, and everyone else reading this:

May God bless you abundantly in the next year and fill your life with love and happiness and fulfilment. Amen!

 

JazakAllah, my respected sister. Similar wishes for the year and beyond go from me to to you and others. Alhamdu lillahi Rabbil aalameen.

 

 

 

la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Al-‘Atheemu Al-Haleemu, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbul ‘arshil-‘atheemi, la ilaaha illaa Allaahu Rabbus-samaawaati wa Rabbul-ardhi wa Rabbul-‘arshil-kareemi

there is no god except Allah, the All-Mighty, the Forbearing; there is no god except Allah, the Lord of the Mighty Throne;

there is no god except Allah, Lord of the heavens, Lord of the earth and Lord of the noble Throne.

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Hi Orthodox,

God could have redeemed us in an infinite number of ways. He chose to assume a human nature and offer through the flesh a pure sacrifice.

Why?

Since sin entered the world through a man (i.e. Adam) it is fitting that we should be redeemed through another man (i.e. Jesus). But not just any man…

Why?

No one is capable of paying back the debt owed to God for our sins. God the infinite has been offended by our sins; therefore only an infinite sacrifice could pay back an infinite offense.

God bless,

Augustine, I must say I can't quite follow what you are trying to say nor any of the above make any sense to me..

Anyway, do you know what's an oxgoad is? Here is a couple of clips of Sh.Ahmad Deedat, exctract from his debate with a Palestinian Christian "Quran & Bible: which is God's word" or something like that..enjoy..

 

Part 1:

Part2:

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Hi Agustine [interesting name or username].

 

No one is capable of paying back the debt owed to God for our sins. God the infinite has been offended by our sins; therefore only an infinite sacrifice could pay back an infinite offense.

O, an infinite offense. However, nothing was payed back because no one chose to pay back anything if the sacrifice is God.

Edited by Orthodox

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I respect Ahmed Deedat, he knows how to quote from the Bible but he lacks the understanding of how to interpret what he quotes…

What part of my post did you fail to understand?

God bless,

Why don't we start with some basic stuff mentioned by Sh.Deedat in the clips above?

How about offering your interpretations of a jewish lad killing 600 Palestinians with an ox-goad, killing a thousand with 'fresh jawbone of a donkey? Is there a historical account of 'Palestinians foreskin' being used as currency? and what about killing thousands of men, women and children except virgin girls that they saved for themselves and their lord? Prophet did this under instruction from god? Please explain these and explain in what way sh.deedat is lacking in his interpretations..

We'll get to your earlier point later IA..

Edited by RAHIMI

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It will take some time to answer your questions. Here is a brief answer.

Sure, while you are at it, please explain this as well:

1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep,camel and ###### ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

I'm sure you'll come up with out of this explanations and justifications for killing civilians, small babies and their animals..that would make sense (at least to you).. look forward to it..

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Sure, while you are at it, please explain this as well:

1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep,camel and ###### ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

I'm sure you'll come up with out of this explanations and justifications for killing civilians, small babies and their animals..that would make sense (at least to you).. look forward to it..

 

Rahimi, I know this was directed at Augustine but what exactly are you quoting here and looking for a explanation for?

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Rahimi, I know this was directed at Augustine but what exactly are you quoting here and looking for a explanation for?

Salam, I think Augustine was trying to explain trinity to me by quoting verses from the Bible which did not make sense to me. My reply to him was somewhere along the line that there are other parts of the Bible that do not make sense to me as well, the above is an example. How could a scripture that is supposed to be from God or God inspired talking about God/Prophet of God commanding people to kill men, women, babies and even animals for no reason other that rage? If you have the time, watch the clips from Sh. Deedat as well..

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Salam, I think Augustine was trying to explain trinity to me by quoting verses from the Bible which did not make sense to me. My reply to him was somewhere along the line that there are other parts of the Bible that do not make sense to me as well, the above is an example. How could a scripture that is supposed to be from God or God inspired talking about God/Prophet of God commanding people to kill men, women, babies and even animals for no reason other that rage? If you have the time, watch the clips from Sh. Deedat as well..

 

What book and verse do you have quoted? I thought it might be Isaias 15 but it did not match.

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What book and verse do you have quoted? I thought it might be Isaias 15 but it did not match.

Sorry, here's a full NIV quote:

1 Samuel 15 (New International Version, ©2010)

 

1 Samuel 15

 

The LORD Rejects Saul as King

 

1 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’â€

4 So Saul summoned the men and mustered them at Telaim—two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand from Judah. 5 Saul went to the city of Amalek and set an ambush in the ravine. 6 Then he said to the Kenites, “Go away, leave the Amalekites so that I do not destroy you along with them; for you showed kindness to all the israelites when they came up out of Egypt.†So the Kenites moved away from the Amalekites.

 

7 Then Saul attacked the Amalekites all the way from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt. 8 He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword. 9 But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves and lambs—everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.

 

10 Then the word of the LORD came to Samuel: 11 “I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.†Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the LORD all that night.

Source:you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbiblegateway(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/passage/?search=1%20Samuel+15&version=NIV

 

god with regrets? hmmm....So is this from god, god inspired, or unknown men writing to demonise other group of people?

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Hello everyone,

 

Allow me to expand on my previous comment.

 

The death of Jesus on the cross is truly significant to all Christians. It brings to fulfilment the idea of Eternal Life which Jesus taught, and fulfilment of Old Testament prophesies, and it is through his death and resurrection that the world would come to know and accept the message of Jesus and attain salvation; itt is a sign, just as Passover was a sign as well as the parting of the water, and manna and quail were all signs.

 

I, and others like myself, reject the widely-held view among most Christians that God sacrificed his 'only begotten son' or Himself on the cross as an act of atonement or ransom to Satan. The idea that Jesus bore the sins of humanity and was punished in substitution of mankind is also rejected. The doctrine of atonement is multifaceted and has been debated and developed over the centuries – long after Jesus and his disciples were here on earth. It was a concept which was formulated partly to explain why Jesus died or why God did not deliver him from the clutches of his persecutors if he was indeed the ‘only begotten son’, especially since the idea of Jesus being God in a trinity was growing (it was not around in the earliest years of Christianity).

 

When we read the Gospels, it is clear that there are several things which lead to salvation and eternal life, so it would therefore be scripturally incorrect to claim that salvation comes only from the death of Jesus on the cross and from only believing that he died and was resurrected. Jesus said before he was crucified in prayer that we were already loved by God not that we would need atonement to be reconciled with God. Jesus came to show us the way.

 

Jesus did indeed repeatedly foretell his death on the cross and his resurrection, and he was clearly aware that his death had a purpose. His death was an act of unselfishness because he let go of worldly attachment and self-preservation in order for us to attain Eternal Life – he knew that this sign was necessary. So, he sacrificed himself in that way, but he was NOT a sacrifice for atonement purposes nor is he a ransom to Satan. Why would YAHWEH come down to earth and sacrifice Himself to Himself or ransom Himself/His son to Satan? Why would he sacrifice His ‘only begotten Son’ when He prevented Abraham from sacrificing his own child? Some say it is out of love for us – but again, where is the logic in sacrificing one’s self (or one’s one child) to one’s self or to Satan? Does God need to appease Satan?

 

In the Bible, we learn that God’s people were sacrificing their children, and this is what he said about it:

 

“They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire –something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.†Jeremiah 7:31

 

God never even thought of child sacrifice nor did He command it, so WHY would He sacrifice His ‘only begotten son’? Logic? ? ? ?

 

This is a flawed doctrine, which is why it can be pulled apart by scripture and history proves that this theory was not around in the earliest days of Christendom.

 

 

If Jesus was indeed final atonement as is claimed, why then was he not offered as a holy sacrifice at the Temple, which still stood erect when he was alive on earth - rather than hanging on a cross like a common criminal? Would God not have made special provisions for the final atonement, especially if He Himself or His ‘only begotten son’ were to be sacrificed?

 

The world is saved from Jesus’ death on the cross because it is through his death and the resurrection that we would come to know Jesus and his message and attain salvation. Humanity wanted signs to believe, which is why we have been shown miracles and have had facts beyond human knowledge revealed to us as signs [just as the Quran states that some of the things stated therein were unknown, and there are also references to signs].

 

Only those who follow Jesus’ teachings and emulate his perfect example are saved from the slavery of sin, as many Christians believe in his death and resurrection and call him their Lord and Saviour, yet they do not apply his teachings. It is as Jesus himself prophesied,

 

“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of God in heaven will enter.†Matthew 7:21

 

God’s peace to all of you.

 

:sl:

Edited by samantha-g

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Sorry, here's a full NIV quote:

1 Samuel 15 (New International Version, ©2010)

 

1 Samuel 15

 

The LORD Rejects Saul as King

 

1 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’â€

4 So Saul summoned the men and mustered them at Telaim—two hundred thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand from Judah. 5 Saul went to the city of Amalek and set an ambush in the ravine. 6 Then he said to the Kenites, “Go away, leave the Amalekites so that I do not destroy you along with them; for you showed kindness to all the israelites when they came up out of Egypt.†So the Kenites moved away from the Amalekites.

 

7 Then Saul attacked the Amalekites all the way from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt. 8 He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword. 9 But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle, the fat calves and lambs—everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy completely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed.

 

10 Then the word of the LORD came to Samuel: 11 “I regret that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.†Samuel was angry, and he cried out to the LORD all that night.

Source:you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbiblegateway(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/passage/?search=1%20Samuel+15&version=NIV

 

god with regrets? hmmm....So is this from god, god inspired, or unknown men writing to demonise other group of people?

 

Rahimi, This is the same verse from from the Douay-Rheims

 

 

Saul is sent to destroy Amalec: he spareth their king and the best of their cattle: for which disobedience he is cast off by the Lord.

 

[1] And Samuel said to Saul: The Lord sent me to anoint thee king over his People israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the Lord: [2] Thus saith the Lord of hosts: I have reckoned up all that Amalec hath done to israel: I how he opposed them in the way when they came up out of Egypt. [3] Now therefore go, and smite Amalec, and utterly destroy all that he hath: spare him not, nor covet any thing that is his: but slay both man and woman, child and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ######. [4] So Saul commanded the people, and numbered them as lambs: two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand of the men of Juda. [5] And when Saul was come to the city of Amalec, he laid ambushes in the torrent.

 

[3] "Child"... The great Master of life and death (who cuts off one half of all mankind whilst they are children) has been pleased sometimes to ordain that children should be put to the sword, in detestation of the crimes of their parents, and that they might not live to follow the same wicked ways. But without such ordinance of God it is not allowable, in any wars, how just soever, to kill children.

 

[6] And Saul said to the Cinite: Go, depart and get ye down from Amalec: lest I destroy thee with him. For thou hast shewn kindness to all the children of israel, when they came up out of Egypt. And the Cinite departed from the midst of Amalec. [7] And Saul smote Amalec from Hevila, until thou comest to Sur, which is over against Egypt. [8] And he took Agag the king of Amalec alive: but all the common people he slew with the edge of the sword. [9] And Saul and the people spared Agag and the best of the flocks of sheep and of the herds, and the garments and the rams, and all that was beautiful, and would not destroy them: but every thing that was vile and good for nothing, that they destroyed. [10] And the word of the Lord came to Samuel, saying:

 

[11] It repenteth me that I have made Saul king: for he hath forsaken me, and hath not executed my commandments. And Samuel was grieved, and he cried unto the Lord all night. [12] And when Samuel rose early, to go to Saul in the morning, it was told Samuel, that Saul was come to Carmel, and had erected for himself a triumphant arch, and returning had passed on, and gone down to Galgal. And Samuel came to Saul, and Saul was offering a holocaust to the Lord out of the choicest of the spoils which he had brought from Amalec. [13] And when Samuel was come to Saul, Saul said to him: Blessed be thou of the Lord, I have fulfilled the word of the Lord. [14] And Samuel said: What meaneth then this bleating of the flocks, which soundeth in my ears, and the lowing of the herds, which I hear? [15] And Saul said: They have brought them from Amalec: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the herds that they might be sacrificed to the Lord thy God, but the rest we have slain.

 

[16] And Samuel said to Saul: Suffer me, and I will tell thee what the Lord hath said to me this night. And he said to him: Speak. [17] And Samuel said: When thou wast a little one in thy own eyes, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of israel? And the Lord anointed thee to be king over israel. [18] And the Lord sent thee on the way, and said: Go, and kill the sinners of Amalec, and thou shalt fight against them until thou hast utterly destroyed them. [19] Why then didst thou not hearken to the voice of the Lord: but hast turned to the prey, and hast done evil in the eyes of the Lord. [20] And Saul said to Samuel: Yea I have hearkened to the voice of the Lord, and have walked in the way by which the Lord sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalec, and Amalec I have slain.

 

[21] But the people took of the spoils sheep and oxen, as the firstfruits of those things that were slain, to offer sacrifice to the Lord their God in Galgal. [22] And Samuel said: Doth the Lord desire holocausts and victims, and not rather that the voice of the Lord should be obeyed? For obedience is better than sacrifices: and to hearken rather than to offer the fat of rams. [23] Because it is like the sin of witchcraft, to rebel: and like the crime of idolatry, to refuse to obey. Forasmuch therefore as thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, the Lord hath also rejected thee from being king. [24] And Saul said to Samuel: I have sinned because I have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and thy words, fearing the people, and obeying their voice. [25] But now bear, I beseech thee, my sin, and return with me, that I may adore the Lord.

 

[26] And Samuel said to Saul: I will not return with thee, because thou hast rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord hath rejected thee from being king over israel. [27] And Samuel turned about to go away: but he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent. [28] And Samuel said to him: The Lord hath rent the kingdom of israel from thee this day, and hath given it to thy neighbour who is better than thee. [29] But the triumpher in israel will riot spare, and will not be moved to repentance: for he is not a mail that he should repent. [30] Then he said: I have sinned: yet honour me now before the ancients of my people, and before israel, and return with me, that I may adore the Lord thy God.

 

[31] So Samuel turned again after Saul: and Saul adored the Lord. [32] And Samuel said: Bring hitherto me Agag the king of Amalec. And Agag was presented to him very fat, and trembling. And Agag said: Doth bitter death separate in this manner? [33] And Samuel said: As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed him in pieces before the Lord in Galgal. [34] And Samuel departed to Ramatha: but Saul went up to his house in Gabaa. [35] And Samuel saw Saul no more till the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul, because the Lord repented that he had made him king over israel.

 

[35] "Saw Saul no more till the day of his death"... That is, he went no more to see him: he visited him no more.

 

What you put out seemed a little incomplete. To adress your question though. I would say it was due to human will not conforming to God's will. Saul did not do as he was instructed by God.

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What you put out seemed a little incomplete. To adress your question though. I would say it was due to human will not conforming to God's will. Saul did not do as he was instructed by God.

 

Workingman, you are missing the point of my post..

Have you ever wonder why some Christians are hardcore Zionists supporters? Why these people tolerated butchering and killing of men, women, children, animals and even trees in Palestine? Why, because its says so in the Bible that't why..How about the verses about raping and killing women and keeping the virgins for themselves and their god? And how about the part when god is having second thoughts or regrets about Saul? If you keep insisting that all these are indeed from god, then all your statements in the other thread about who God is and what His attributes are, would be in complete contradiction and would not make any sense. Surely you can see this?

p.s Yes I did not quote the entire chapter from NIV..only verse 1-10..

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Workingman, you are missing the point of my post..

Have you ever wonder why some Christians are hardcore Zionists supporters? Why these people tolerated butchering and killing of men, women, children, animals and even trees in Palestine? Why, because its says so in the Bible that't why..How about the verses about raping and killing women and keeping the virgins for themselves and their god? And how about the part when god is having second thoughts or regrets about Saul? If you keep insisting that all these are indeed from god, then all your statements in the other thread about who God is and what His attributes are, would be in complete contradiction and would not make any sense. Surely you can see this?

p.s Yes I did not quote the entire chapter from NIV..only verse 1-10..

 

Ok I see what you are getting at but do I need to go and cherry pick verses from the Quran that support violence or war. I could but I don't see the point. They were fighting in the chapter you sighted at the command of God. Now bolth Christianity and Islam have there radicals. Bolth sides can find support from their Holy Book. You know that and I know that. Do we realy want to go there? I don't think that is really needed. No God does contain those atributes as I stated. God is also to be feared. If one does not fear God one is a fool. We might not understand God's reason with our limited human mind but in the end it leads to God's just ends.

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