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Is Jesus God?

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Ok. You know that I as a Catholic do not subscribe to sola sripture that is another topic and one that you I am sure have a consept of since you have a Roman Catholic back ground and understanding.

If you do not subscribe to the Sola Scriptura concept, what happens when your doctrines or traditions contradict the scripture? Are you saying that tradition and doctrine which have no Biblical sanction are more important than the word of God and teachings of Jesus? This is relevant to the topic.

 

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Edited by samantha-g

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When Christians claim that Muslims are taking the Gospel out of context that is true usually. But Christians do the same thing with the Hebrew Bible from Judaism. Also I have noticed that whereas a large number of Muslims convert to Christianity and Christians to Islam, it is not under the same circumstance. Usually Christians convert to Islam because it makes sense. It is very basic and easy to understand. On the flip side however when Muslims become Christians it is usually out of emotions, and not logic. They fear Allah (swt) too much (which by the way is a bad thing to do it that much), or are abused by their governments or are shocked at the amount of violence that Muslims do. Many also look at websites or read books that greatly distort Islam and who Prophet Muhammad (saws) was. My own friend left Islam and I have been able to refute all of her arguments. As a last result she said that she just can not follow a god that does not "love", which I also refuted (she now won't even bring up the subject of religion). Many Muslims are also leaving Islam in Africa not out of some error in Islam, but rather for food and shelter. I have seen people go from Islam to Christianity and Christianity to Islam, and it usually follows that pattern.

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If you do not subscribe to the Sola Scriptura concept, what happens when your doctrines or traditions contradict the scripture? Are you saying that tradition and doctrine which have no Biblical sanction are more important than the word of God and teachings of Jesus? This is relevant to the topic.

 

######you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_image62.webshots(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/62/8/72/20/408587220yXoZTZ_ph.jpg[/img]

 

Samantha-g, We are told in scripture it self. Look at Cor. 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me: and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you. (Paul did not deliver it all in writing. It was passed on oraly.) Sripture it self was passed down oraly and then recorded. Nothing the CC teaches is in contradiction to the Scriptures period.

 

I was a convert to the CC. I walked as a protestant. I saw many false hoods. That is why I converted to the RCC.

 

By the way confession it self is also taught in scripture since you brought it up. See St. John 20:21-23

He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

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When Christians claim that Muslims are taking the Gospel out of context that is true usually. But Christians do the same thing with the Hebrew Bible from Judaism. Also I have noticed that whereas a large number of Muslims convert to Christianity and Christians to Islam, it is not under the same circumstance. Usually Christians convert to Islam because it makes sense. It is very basic and easy to understand. On the flip side however when Muslims become Christians it is usually out of emotions, and not logic. They fear Allah (swt) too much (which by the way is a bad thing to do it that much), or are abused by their governments or are shocked at the amount of violence that Muslims do. Many also look at websites or read books that greatly distort Islam and who Prophet Muhammad (saws) was. My own friend left Islam and I have been able to refute all of her arguments. As a last result she said that she just can not follow a god that does not "love", which I also refuted (she now won't even bring up the subject of religion). Many Muslims are also leaving Islam in Africa not out of some error in Islam, but rather for food and shelter. I have seen people go from Islam to Christianity and Christianity to Islam, and it usually follows that pattern.

 

You are correct bolth convert bolth ways. The reasons you state are argumentitive. I see plenty of Christians being persecuted in dominatly Muslim countries also. In India if one is a Christian they can not get gov. aid. Given Hinueism is the dominate religion there. Or how about the radical bombings and shootings of Christians in Iraq and Egypt. Or the teacher in Pakistan arrested and even if she is aquited of the blasphimy charge will probably be killed by radicals. Why because she does not view Mohomed as a prophet. Why does she not. She is a Christian. Now I am not saying Christians in the past are not guilty of atrosities because they to have done them. It is historicaly incorrect to say they have not.

 

Basic needs can drive a person for servival if they do not want to dye a maryter. If I have understood you correctly that is what you are saying.

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Hi White Curtains of the Wind, :sl:

 

I agree, but some Christians convert because they are ignorant about what Jesus taught. They don't understand his message because it has been misrepresented by some churches. There are indeed Muslims who convert out of sense, and because Islam [as they feel] is missing something, just as some Christians convert because they feel Christianity as they know it is missing something or Islam fits better.

 

There are Muslims who convert because they feel that Islam does not teach that God loves as much as in Christianity, and I gotta say that I agree when I read such things:

 

"Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve" (8:55)

 

Say: "Obey God and His Apostle": But if they turn back, God loveth not those who reject Faith. (3:32)

 

"God is an enemy to those who reject Faith." (2:98)

 

Yet in the Bible, God repeatedly asks his people to return to Him, and abandon injustice and idol worship, and says that He will forgive them. God in Islam seems like he is always angry and always curses, and wants to be feared, whereas loving God is the most important thing for us and His love is central to our faith. Of course, there are probably verses which are about love in the Quran which are rosier than the few I have quoted. I can tell you honestly right now, that I do not have even an ounce of fear for God - there is only Love [because to Love God is the greatest commandment] and this is why I obey.

 

 

I didn't see Rahimi's post. I can't watch videos on my computer right now. :sl:

 

 

Samantha-g, We are told in scripture it self. Look at Cor. 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me: and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you. (Paul did not deliver it all in writing. It was passed on oraly.) Sripture it self was passed down oraly and then recorded. Nothing the CC teaches is in contradiction to the Scriptures period.

 

The NT Gospels were recorded for public reading and memorised orally which is why the Gospels are dated by Palaeographers to the first century A.D. within the lifetimes of the Apostles.

 

I have yet to do research regarding textual criticism of the Epistles. If I remember correctly, they surface quite late in the timeline of manuscripts and some were not as widely used even in the second and third centuries until the Canon was finalised by the Nicene council in 325 A.D.

 

I will ask you this again: Are the words in the Epistles equal to the words of Jesus? Is Paul equal to Jesus or God (since you believe in a trinity)? Who do you listen to when Paul contradicts Jesus?

 

There are MANY things taught by the Catholic Church which contradict the scripture such as purgatory, and intercession [which has no Biblical basis in either the Old Testament or the New Testament and which is NOT practiced by Jews], as well as calling the Pope ‘His Holiness’ and giving him and priests elevated status, and let’s not forget the veneration of Mary and calling her the ‘Mother of God’ or ‘Spouse of the Holy Spirit’ or the ‘Queen of Heaven’. You cannot reconcile any of this with the Bible and you know it, which is why you have not responded to my refutations of such practices.

 

In response to the accusation you made that I interpret as I please [although I know which site you copied and pasted that from]:

 

I do not. I study the Gospels in Greek and Aramaic within their context. Many Trinitarians say Jesus is God, yet they ignore the verses where Jesus said we are like him and we can do all that he did and that God loves us the same. So who is disregarding context? Many things have been mistranslated such as ‘only begotten’ which is ‘unique’ or ‘one of a kind’ in both Greek AND Aramaic, and the word made flesh which is actually the Miltha/Memra to name a couple (see page 1 of this post for more).

 

It is also important to discard verses and passages which are not in the earliest manuscripts, or those which have been re-worked from the original like Matthew 28:29 [it originally did not say, "Baptise them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." This is an alteration attributed to Constantine and the Nicene council].

 

Is it not important to understand what Jesus was really saying? There are many mistranslations in Western Bibles and that is a fact. If you don't like my interpretation, then take it to the manuscripts because that is where I get my information from.

 

By the way confession it self is also taught in scripture since you brought it up. See St. John 20:21-23

He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. [22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

 

His disciples are not only priests - all who follow him are his disciples! He did not only say that to Peter if you wish to claim that Peter (and by extension priests) had the authority to receive confessions. Jesus did not say we must confess our sins to priests and ask them to forgive us, did he? Forgiveness of sin comes through repenting (to God and not a man) and salvation.

 

 

The problem most Christians have with the denial of Jesus’ divinity is this:

 

If Jesus is not God, the Trinity is useless.

If Jesus is not God, the theory of atonement via crucifixion is in question.

If Jesus is not God, then God did not suffer or make his ‘only begotten son’ suffer for our sins.

 

 

Gracie, Jesus is not God.

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These quotes are from Samantha-g

 

The NT Gospels were recorded for public reading and memorised orally which is why the Gospels are dated by Palaeographers to the first century A.D. within the lifetimes of the Apostles.

 

Exactly the point of Oral Tradition!

 

I have yet to do research regarding textual criticism of the Epistles. If I remember correctly, they surface quite late in the timeline of manuscripts and some were not as widely used even in the second and third centuries until the Canon was finalised by the Nicene council in 325 A.D.

 

I could not tell you the date either. When you find out let me know.

 

I will ask you this again: Are the words in the Epistles equal to the words of Jesus? Is Paul equal to Jesus or God (since you believe in a trinity)? Who do you listen to when Paul contradicts Jesus?

 

The Epistles are divinly inspired. The Epistels do not contradict scripture. No Paul is not equal to Jesus. Nore are any of the Apostels. Jesus=God.

 

 

There are MANY things taught by the Catholic Church which contradict the scripture such as purgatory, and intercession [which has no Biblical basis in either the Old Testament or the New Testament and which is NOT practiced by Jews], as well as calling the Pope ‘His Holiness’ and giving him and priests elevated status, and let’s not forget the veneration of Mary and calling her the ‘Mother of God’ or ‘Spouse of the Holy Spirit’ or the ‘Queen of Heaven’. You cannot reconcile any of this with the Bible and you know it, which is why you have not responded to my refutations of such practices.

 

Purgatory is supported by Holy Scripture (See St. Matthew 5:26, 18:34, St. Luke 12:58-59, 1Cor 15:29-30, 2Tim 1:16-18 also see 2 Macc. 12:44-45, 1 Peter 3:19 and 4:6). Those are but some for purgatory also 1Cor 3:15 speaks of purification by fire. There are also many ECF writings on this also if you care to research them. (Acts of Paul and Thecla (A.D. 160). Is but one example.

 

Intercessory prayer is also covered in 2Macc. as a example. I will find the verse latter.

 

 

The Pope is called His Holiness because he is Christ viccar on earth. In order to understand that though one must hold to the Trinity.

 

So you denie what Christ meant when he handed down the office of the keys then. So what in your interpretation was ment then when he said what ever you forgive is forgiven and what you bind is bound.?

 

Once again one needs to accept the Trinity to understand Mary as the Mother of God. Undtill you accept that you will not understand that she is the Mother of God. Simpliy if Christ=God. St. Mary by defalt equals Mother of God.

 

 

In response to the accusation you made that I interpret as I please [although I know which site you copied and pasted that from]:

 

I do not. I study the Gospels in Greek and Aramaic within their context. Many Trinitarians say Jesus is God, yet they ignore the verses where Jesus said we are like him and we can do all that he did and that God loves us the same. So who is disregarding context? Many things have been mistranslated such as ‘only begotten’ which is ‘unique’ or ‘one of a kind’ in both Greek AND Aramaic, and the word made flesh which is actually the Miltha/Memra to name a couple (see page 1 of this post for more).

 

I read page one and still staunchly disagree. You ignor just as much the parallels drawn by him saying he is God. See earlier page one. The Jews of Jesus time were ready to stone him for being blasphemos with him doing things that only God can do.

 

It is also important to discard verses and passages which are not in the earliest manuscripts, or those which have been re-worked from the original like Matthew 28:29 [it originally did not say, "Baptise them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." This is an alteration attributed to Constantine and the Nicene council].

 

I will have to research that further. Every text that I can find says otherwise.

 

 

Is it not important to understand what Jesus was really saying? There are many mistranslations in Western Bibles and that is a fact. If you don't like my interpretation, then take it to the manuscripts because that is where I get my information from.

 

One can also misinterpret the manuscripts. If it was not possible to misinterpret them then there woulnd not have been heresy.

 

His disciples are not only priests - all who follow him are his disciples! He did not only say that to Peter if you wish to claim that Peter (and by extension priests) had the authority to receive confessions. Jesus did not say we must confess our sins to priests and ask them to forgive us, did he? Forgiveness of sin comes through repenting (to God and not a man) and salvation.

 

Yes we are all his disciples. The Apostels recieved the office of the keys secificaly starting with Peter. Re read the verses I gave you for this. I am not saying we cannot confess directly to God but one must have perfect contrition.

 

The problem most Christians have with the denial of Jesus’ divinity is this:

 

If Jesus is not God, the Trinity is useless.

If Jesus is not God, the theory of atonement via crucifixion is in question.

If Jesus is not God, then God did not suffer or make his ‘only begotten son’ suffer for our sins.

 

So since Jesus crucifixion is usless do you then perfectly uphold the OT (Lavitical Laws), NT way (Comands) as Jesus told us to live? Do you still practice OT Lavitical sacrifices for the attonment of sins? This would be required if Christ was not the final and perfect sacrifice for our sins.

 

So what then is your view of the Holy Eucharist (Lord's Supper) since you do not believe Christ is God?

 

Gracie Jesus IS God. Read the Holy Bible and use your intelect and form a oppion. Not from a Islamic teaching but a nuteral stance.

Edited by workingman

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Yes, Jesus is God.

 

And yet he died? or rather he committed suicide..in human form he is fully human in god form he is fully god, what is this Lux? Truly does any of these make any sense to you? Oh wait religion is not supposed to make any sense! never mind..

 

And while I'm at it, Samanta quoted a fake Muslim (see video above) and those two guys were fake also, they were Arab Christians looking to make quick buck off those who,you know, willing to spend 500 bucks for 25cent worth of water..

Edited by RAHIMI

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And yet he died? or rather he committed suicide..in human form he is fully human in god form he is fully god, what is this Lux? Truly does any of these make any sense to you? Oh wait religion is not supposed to make any sense! never mind..

 

I guess I should just give up and follow Muhammad... he enlightened mankind with knowledge such as this:

 

Bukhari Vol. II, No. 245: If one sleeps and does not offer the prayer, Satan urinates in his ears.

 

What wisdom! This must be the religion of reason!

 

(Tongue in cheek)

 

But seriously Rahimi, I'm not going to waste my time with you. Feel free to browse past posts or even read a book.

 

 

wa salaam

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I guess I should just give up and follow Muhammad... he enlightened mankind with knowledge such as this:

Bukhari Vol. II, No. 245: If one sleeps and does not offer the prayer, Satan urinates in his ears.

What wisdom! This must be the religion of reason!

(Tongue in cheek)

But seriously Rahimi, I'm not going to waste my time with you. Feel free to browse past posts or even read a book.

wa salaam

You know, I hate to break it Lux, if you were once a Muslim, then you must one of those ignorant ones, no offence.

SO that you know, you need to look at each hadith by taking into account the various angles eg.:

-Each hadith comes with specific background and history behind it, have to it into cnsideration

-One also need to look at what the companions or the people who heard it from the prophet (saw) takes on the meaning and intents. eg. your (tongue in cheek) above, that indicates you are only jesting, delete that what do you have?

-Then you have the issue of translations..Arabic is thousands of years older than english, it is much more powerfull & vast.

-Then one also needs to look in the mirror, I look at myself and I look at the scholars and the students of knowledge, they have spent lifetimes studying the subject, naturally they would know more than me hence their opinions carry more weight than mine and if they don't know then we say Allah and His messenger know best. get me?

 

Now back to your piece of wisdom, how do you understand it when Jesus pbuh addressing the Jews 'you are of your father the Satan' or 'You serpents, you generations of vipers' etc etc..? Do you take it as the Satan having human children?

In everyday life you have for example " I've tried to do business with those people, but got pissed on too many times", what do you understand by that?, did those people literally 'pissed' on you? Well so much for wisdom..

 

p.s uh and don't forget to check out the Ishmael and Isaac pbut thread and share with me your wisdom..

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SO that you know, you need to look at each hadith by taking into account the various angles eg.:

 

I always wondered what angles you guys used to get people to look past all the ludicrous ## in there.

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I always wondered what angles you guys used to get people to look past all the ludicrous ## in there.

Shangobah, I was simply pointing out to the fact that if one needs to understand a certain subject then one needs to look at all evidents. If you read one hadith and consulted just one commentary from a demented Islamphobes nut website then obviously you are not doing the subject justice and nowhere near understanding..

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To: samantha-g

I’m sorry, but from your Post #2 and #23, it is obvious that you are not born-again

because you do not believe (and find fault with) many of God’s Scriptures.

In doing this, you are in effect writing your own Bible. Congratulations.

“Born-again (from above)†(John 3:3,7) Christians have God’s Spirit

inside of them teaching them spiritual truth. You are not in this place.

For example, there are:

Dozens of verses reveal that Jesus is God, equal to Father God, etc.

If anyone would like to see them, please just ask.

10 verses have Jesus indicating that He is God, equal to the Father.

10 verses reveal that Father God created all things through Jesus.

 

To: Yusha

Your Post #5 starts off great, but you have a huge problem

when you take the word of the Quran as the final arbitrator.

 

To: al faqeer

Re: your Post #7, at Nicea they agreed on a doctrine,

but those 70+ verses were always there to be believed.

In those days, it’s my opinion that most of the church leaders

were not born-again (with God’s Spirit inside of them leading them).

Today, the old mainline churches especially still have the same problem.

 

To: tom

Re: your Post #13, Jesus made it very clear that since he was in a human body,

He was not looking forward to the agony of being crucified. Hello!

And He was simply asking Father God, “Is there another way?â€

Then Jesus said, “I know, there’s no other way ... this is why I came to earth.â€

Tom, please re-read this area of the Scriptures.

 

To: al faqeer

Re: your Posts #17 and #20, samantha explained that “beget†was poorly used.

Quickly, if God is everywhere, why can’t we see that He is able to “divideâ€

Himself up into many “parts� So, let’s just say “part†of God came to earth

and resided in a human body for 33 years. And, no Christian has ever said

that God mated with a female and begat any offspring.

God the Son was in a human body when He prayed to God the Father.

“The Son of Man†was not close to being 100% God while in that human body.

 

To: White Curtains

Re: your Post #19, of course He could, but He is a god of justice and laws.

One of them is, “Sin must result in spiritual death.â€

However, He doesn’t want all of us to die and miss Heaven.

If you want the full details, please just ask.

 

To: al faqeer

Re: your Post #26, God had no need to reveal Jesus and the Holy Spirit

to the israelites because they had more than enough on their plates already.

They were chosen for 2 very special purposes:

-- to prove that man is not capable of pleasing a Holy God

-- to bring forth (through their loins) His very special Messiah

 

To: RAHIMI

Re: your Posts #32 and #40, I’ve read Estes’ personal testimony,

and it’s more than obvious to me that he was never a Christian.

Being raised one, sitting in pews, etc. means nothing.

Studying the Bible at home, in churches, in seminaries, in universities, etc.

means absolutely nothing. This is not about intellect, education, logic, etc.

It’s what does God’s Spirit reveal to you when you study, pray, etc.?

 

To: samantha

Re: just in general, here’s the deal …

Almighty God HONORS His Bibles (maybe not those of the sects).

Almighty God HONORS people who believe His Bibles.

I.E. He speaks to these people, He confirms to these people (through their

experiences) what the Bible teaches, prophecies, promises, etc. is all true.

So, what do we do with this fact? ... PLUS ...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You’re going to have to explain to us where the dozens of verses came from

which teach that Jesus is God, is equal to the Father, is the Creator, etc. etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This has taken me to the end of the first 2 pages.

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The question was is Jesus God not is Jesus the son of God(that would be for a different question to answer).

Jesus is Not God.

Why?

If Jesus is God why did God pray to himself?? Surely is it is human beings who pray to God.

And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God. luke 6:12

 

As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life? 'Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.' Mark 10:17-18.

Surely if Jesus was God he would have no problem accepting that he is good. The Christian can't say well it says God alone is good. If you believe Jesus is God then you believe he is God. There is no need to make exceptions here people. If Jesus is God, then from this you are accepting that God is not good.

 

God was tempted by Satan??

Please tell me how you can possibly believe if Jesus is God that he was tempted by Satan for 40 days? Surely if you believe in Your Creator you would believe God cannot be tempted by Satan which He also created.

And the Spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. He was in the wilderness for forty days, tempted by Satan; and he was with the wild beasts; and the angels waited on him. Mark 1:12-13.

 

 

If Jesus is God then God was circumcised??

And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb. Luke 2.21

 

If Jesus is God then God is impure.

How then can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Job 25:4

 

If Jesus is God then God can do nothing?

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. John 5.30

Who sent Jesus? God.

 

If Jesus is God then my idea of God from the bible is that God was impure, God could be tempted, God is like a human because he acts like one if he prays to God. I can't understand why God would pray to himself.

I thought God created humans?

Why did God create humans to worship Him if God wanted to be a human?

Was God circumcised?

I thought God created Satan how could he be tempted by Satan?

I thought God wants people to worship Him why did God worship himself?

These are just some of the questions you have to ask yourself when you start to think Jesus is God. How can we think of Our Creator in a way that even Satan can tempt him?

 

 

There is too many contradictions in the bible in relation to Jesus being God. In the quran it is clear Jesus is Not God. Jesus was a great Prophet whom we love and respect a lot but no one is like God. We cannot imagine God.

 

Say: He is God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him." Surah al Ikhlas.

:sl:

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The question was is Jesus God not is Jesus the son of God(that would be for a different question to answer). Jesus is Not God. Why?

If Jesus is God why did God pray to himself?? Surely is it is human beings who pray to God.

I gave the answer to the above to "tom" in my last post.

Sorry, I don't have the time & patience to answer all of your concerns.

But, I know the answers to all of them.

If you present them one at a time, I'll answer them.

The most difficult one first, please.

I'm not joking.

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To: tom

Re: your Post #13, Jesus made it very clear that since he was in a human body,

He was not looking forward to the agony of being crucified. Hello!

And He was simply asking Father God, “Is there another way?â€

Then Jesus said, “I know, there’s no other way ... this is why I came to earth.â€

Tom, please re-read this area of the Scriptures.

 

trinitarians believe jesus = almighty god. inother words they believe jesus is almighty god himself. christians be they trinitarians, binitarians and unitarians believe almighty god is god the father.

 

as such, this gonna mean trinitarians believe jesus = god the father = almighty god. right? inother words they believe jesus is one and the same person with god the father. (they also believe holy spirit is almighty god. anyhow let's focus on jesus being almighty god).

 

since jesus = god the father = almighty god, it dont make sense when jesus (almighty god) asked father god (almighty god), "is there another way?" right? it looks like almighty god is speaking to himself. it looks like trinitarians' almighty god is suffering from split personality disorder. right?

 

what say you?

 

i've questions on trinity but let's ask one question at a time. you know one step at a time. :sl:

Edited by tom

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But, I know the answers to all of them.

 

Well Ameer7 no need to get all sarcastic my questions are clear above - here they are numbered one by one. Do take your time in answering- we don't want to confuse people with more contradictions.

 

QUESTION 1- I thought God created humans?

QUESTION 2- Why did God create humans to worship Him if God wanted to be a human?

QUESTION 3- Was God circumcised?

QUESTION 4 -I thought God created Satan how could he be tempted by Satan? :sl:

QUESTION 5- I thought God wants people to worship Him why did God worship himself?

 

btw Tom I agree with you, it seems such a contradiction that God would talk about himself and ask himself for guidance.

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10 verses have Jesus indicating that He is God, equal to the Father.

10 verses reveal that Father God created all things through Jesus.

There are also verses saying THY father and mentions of sons of God. I will also supply these if you wish but I am sure you know them already. Therefore God is also our father and we are all his children. If you can apply the rule of this to Jesus then why do you disregard it when he talks of other people.Seems like only a hypocrite would do it.

 

He was not looking forward to the agony of being crucified. Hello!

And He was simply asking Father God, “Is there another way?”

Then Jesus said, “I know, there’s no other way ... this is why I came to earth.”

Ok let me put this in basic language. Jesus(God) asks God(Jesus) is there another way? God is clearly talking to himself.... No surprise, humans talk to themselves all the time.

 

if God is everywhere, why can’t we see that He is able to “divide” Himself up into many “parts”? So, let’s just say “part” of God came to earth and resided in a human body for 33 years.

Look we all know God is everywhere and knows everything. The problem with dividing God is , it doesnt make God one anymore. Don't start to contradict yourself anymore. If you divide one cake you get two parts. God is ONE not TWO. When you start thinking of God in parts you start to think of very different distinct images not One God that is everywhere. So no your theory of division isn't working for me, it raises more questions than it answers.

 

 

 

This has taken me to the end of the first 2 pages.

I hope you have more pages.

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trinitarians believe jesus = almighty god. inother words they believe jesus is almighty god himself. christians be they trinitarians, binitarians and unitarians believe almighty god is god the father.

as such, this gonna mean trinitarians believe jesus = god the father = almighty god. right? inother words they believe jesus is one and the same person with god the father. (they also believe holy spirit is almighty god. anyhow let's focus on jesus being almighty god).

since jesus = god the father = almighty god, it dont make sense when jesus (almighty god) asked father god (almighty god), "is there another way?" right? it looks like almighty god is speaking to himself. it looks like trinitarians' almighty god is suffering from split personality disorder. right?

what say you?

i've questions on trinity but let's ask one question at a time. you know one step at a time. :sl:

First, everyone agrees this is one quite impossible subject for humans to comprehend.

But, we do have this to console us:

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My waysâ€, says the Lord.

“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways,

and My thoughts than your thoughts.†(Isaiah 55:8-9)

 

Second, trinitarians believe that God has revealed Himself as 3 Persons in 1 God.

There are dozens of verses that reveal this. And there are verses with

confusing statements such as Father God is Jesus, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, etc.

The point is: They are so much in UNITY of thought and purpose, etc. that They are as ONE.

 

Third, can't you see that Jesus Christ is the name of a MAN who had GOD inside of him,

and that this MAN felt pain, etc. like we do? This isn't brain surgery or rocket science.

 

That's the best I can do ... hope it helps some.

 

P.S. I have no problem with a Triune God ...

it certainly isn't logical, so I guess I accept it with blind faith.

But, that's the whole point of the exercise ... to take God at His word.

Seems like one needs the gift of faith to do this.

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Jesus is not God, plain and simple, Jesus taught people to worship the Father which is in heaven, there is nowhere is the Bible where Jesus says im God however there are other places within the Bible where Gods says im God! Now with such a controversial topic why would God NOT identify himself if He truly was Jesus? The notion or the saying of have faith is baseless because faith is not blind but faith is based off of something.

 

If Jesus was God then we could add to Gods attributes that God was sneaky because

1)Jesus didnt tell people He was God so why sneak amongst your creations and play chess games with them?

 

2) God would be a hypocrite because if he said thou shall not commit murder why would He allow for his creation to kill Him by murder then say they are forgiven?

 

3) God would have committed suicide by roman sort of like suicide by cop(<---look it up),

 

4)you dont buy the suicide argument?? lol well look at this if i made a gun and then i made some bullets and then i pointed the gun to my head and pulled the trigger and i used the gun to kill myself thats suicide, God made men and then He used men to kill himself???? Suicide!Now how do you explain that.......cause God would be a hypocrite to tell us not to kill ourselves but He does it?? do as i say not as i do?

Edited by twoswordali

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Ameer you clearly can't answer my several other questions so you just continue to avoid them. #65 does not answer my questions.

 

 

:sl:

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twotoomanyswordsali,

 

Exodus 3:

13 Then Moses said to God, “Indeed, when I come to the children of israel and say to them,

‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is His name?’

what shall I say to them?â€

14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.â€

And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’â€

15 Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of israel:

‘The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob,

has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’

 

Would you agree that Almighty God's name is "I AM"?

If so, what would you say to the fact that Jesus called Himself "I AM" about 7 times in the NT?

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Gen 27:24

And he said, [Art] thou my very son Esau? And he said, I am.

 

 

Num 11:21

And Moses said, The people, among whom I am [are] six hundred thousand footmen; and thou hast said, I will give them flesh, that they may eat a whole month.

Num 11:14

I am not able to bear all this people alone, because [it is] too heavy for me.

 

Num 22:38 And Balaam said unto Balak, Lo, I am come unto thee: have I now any power at all to say any thing? the word that God putteth in my mouth, that shall I speak.

Jdg 13:11 And Manoah arose, and went after his wife, and came to the man, and said unto him, [Art] thou the man that spakest unto the woman? And he said, I am.

 

1Sa 16:5 And he said, Peaceably: I am come to sacrifice unto the LORD: sanctify yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice. And he sanctified Jesse and his sons, and called them to the sacrifice

 

2Sa 14:15 Now therefore that I am come to speak of this thing unto my lord the king, [it is] because the people have made me afraid: and thy handmaid said, I will now speak unto the king; it may be that the king will perform the request of his handmaid.

 

There is tons of people who refer to themselves as I am in the Bible are they God as well??, Aso in the story of Moses i am is in capital letters to signify God please show me where Jesus signifies himself the same way

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