Is Jesus God?

[ParadiseLost 333]

Ameer only answers a question when it benefits his argument.

 

Was God circumcised?

[Ameer7 0]

John 8:24

“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins;

for if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.â€

 

John 8:28

Then Jesus said to them,

“When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I AM, …â€

 

John 8:58

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.â€

 

John 13:19

“Now I tell you before it comes, that when it does come to pass,

you may believe that I AM.â€

 

John 18:6

Now when He said to them, “I AMâ€, they drew back and fell to the ground.

 

John 4:26

Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you AM.â€

 

In all of these verses, there is no “he†after “I AM†in the original Greek.

 

[using large font size is not allowed]

[twoswordali 0]

Thank you kindly for proving my point Ameer :sl: every verse that you showed is excatly the same as what i have shown. So if you say that this means Jesus is God then it will mean the same for the other people as well. Even in the greek language your interupting it wrongly sorry to tell you that.

Now as far as exodus 3 14 yup God is I AM and the words is

and·he-is-saying Elohim to Moses I-shall-become who I-am-becoming and·he-is-saying thus you-shall-say to·sons-of israel I-shall-become

he-sent·me to·you

LOL nowhere does Jesus repeats this at all!! Elohim I shal become who I AM BECOMING, now you can go check it out see what you come up with

 

man are you gonna answer the suicide one or aare you going to keep ducking that one??

[RAHIMI 4]

:sl:

First, everyone agrees this is one quite impossible subject for humans to comprehend.

But, we do have this to console us:

It is clear from the above statement that Ameer's claim that he can answer ALL questions is just an empty word. How could one answer or explain something that he himself admitted that it is beyond human comprehension? In other word Christianity teaches humans to believe in something 'impossible/irrational/illogical' otherwise all is to going to suffer eternity in hell, nice..

 

P.S. I have no problem with a Triune God ...

it certainly isn't logical, so I guess I accept it with blind faith.

But, that's the whole point of the exercise ... to take God at His word.

Seems like one needs the gift of faith to do this.

What do you mean blind faith? You have the Bible which is supposed to be from god, that should be the source of your knowledge, shouldn't it. The problem with blind faith is that the Bible itself demands 'proofs of all things'. Then another problem arises, what happens if the Bible says one thing here and another contradictory thing there? Then obviously common sense tells us to seriously doubt if the Bible is a genuine article or not, for God is simply All knowing and would not make a mistake or Says contradictory things.

4)you dont buy the suicide argument?? lol well look at this if i made a gun and then i made some bullets and then i pointed the gun to my head and pulled the trigger and i used the gun to kill myself thats suicide, God made men and then He used men to kill himself???? Suicide!Now how do you explain that.......cause God would be a hypocrite to tell us not to kill ourselves but He does it?? do as i say not as i do?

:sl: , lol how much clearer could one get? grant me permission to use this line brother..

[tom 0]

First, everyone agrees this is one quite impossible subject for humans to comprehend.

But, we do have this to console us:

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My waysâ€, says the Lord.

“For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways,

and My thoughts than your thoughts.†(Isaiah 55:8-9)

 

you're implying everyone with the exception of trinitarians, arent able comprehend the concept of trinity ie jesus (god the son) = god the father = god the holy spirit = almighty god. right? thats funny coz i can easily say deceptive concept ie trinity can only be understood by deceivers ie trinitarians. tit for tat you know. anyhow joke aside, if you honestly try understand isaiah 55, you're gonna figure that god is soooo high up there to wanna play soap opera on earth in the form of man jesus to save mankind. thats what the word ALMIGHTY gonna mean. if almighty god wanna play man on earth to save us, he would have told us loud and clear in the bible even in torah. right? i dont see any. do you?

 

Second, trinitarians believe that God has revealed Himself as 3 Persons in 1 God.

There are dozens of verses that reveal this. And there are verses with

confusing statements such as Father God is Jesus, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, etc.

The point is: They are so much in UNITY of thought and purpose, etc. that They are as ONE.

 

whats the verses that say "father god is jesus, jesus is the holy spirit, 3 persons in 1 god, they are as one etc?

 

while awaiting your verses, lets look at your explanation - 3 persons in 1 god. since jesus = god the father = almighty god, then its gonna mean you treat almighty god as person. right? there you are - jesus (person) = god the father (person) = almighty god (person). inother words jesus (man) = god the father (?) = almighty god (man)(?). is that it? that should be the idea since you've said "they are as one". dont you think its blasphemous to think almighty god looks somewhat like man with desire and all? i believe you gotta come up with better explanation than what you've given.

 

Third, can't you see that Jesus Christ is the name of a MAN who had GOD inside of him,

and that this MAN felt pain, etc. like we do? This isn't brain surgery or rocket science.

 

so this man with god inside him felt pain, humiliation, being flogged by his creation romans and murdered by his creation jews so as to save mankind. that sounds like soap opera. no point almighty god creates prophets if he wanna play man for our sake. right?

 

That's the best I can do ... hope it helps some.

 

your explanations ####eyed

 

P.S. I have no problem with a Triune God ...

it certainly isn't logical, so I guess I accept it with blind faith.

But, that's the whole point of the exercise ... to take God at His word.

Seems like one needs the gift of faith to do this.

 

what exactly did god say about trinity? did he at anytime say he wanna be jesus as well as holy spirit, that he wanna be 3 persons in himself etc?

 

blind faith is valid for things like heaven, hell, jesus birth via a virgin etc. they're mentioned in the bible. but not trinity. i dont see trinity in the bible unless you wanna make assumptions via certain verses. :sl:

[twoswordali 0]

4)you dont buy the suicide argument?? lol well look at this if i made a gun and then i made some bullets and then i pointed the gun to my head and pulled the trigger and i used the gun to kill myself thats suicide, God made men and then He used men to kill himself???? Suicide!Now how do you explain that.......cause God would be a hypocrite to tell us not to kill ourselves but He does it?? do as i say not as i do?

 

:no: , lol how much

clearer could one get? grant me permission to use this line brother..

 

 

MOST DEFINITLY BROTHER :sl: :sl: lol i want all to look at this especially our Christian Bros and Sis and think deeply on it.......thats probably why Ameer hasnt answered back yet

[Ameer7 0]

Tom,

 

Why don't you forget about the Trinity for awhile and try to believe the basic gospel (good news)

of Jesus Christ, which does not include the Trinity? Now how's that for a deal?

 

The gospel (good news) of Jesus Christ:

One of the Laws of Almighty GOD is: Sin results in spiritual death.

All men are sinners (with or without "original sin"), so therefore

all men must die spiritually (be separated from GOD for all of eternity).

God refuses to spend eternity with sinners (who have not been forgiven).

But, GOD did not wish for all of His human creations to be lost forever.

He devised a plan to save mankind: One sinless man could represent us.

Almighty GOD arranged for one man to be born sinless and die sinless.

It was necessary and important for Jesus to shed his blood because GOD

insisted that His ancient “blood covenant†continue to cover over man’s sins.

So, it was always GOD's intention for Jesus to die (and shed his blood).

It was GOD's intention for Jesus to serve as a blood sacrifice for you,

for him to die in your place, for him to take your sins upon himself,

so you could be forgiven ... via GOD’s only plan of salvation.

Note: All of the above is stated clearly in the NT.

[tom 0]

Tom,

 

Why don't you forget about the Trinity for awhile and try to believe the basic gospel (good news)

of Jesus Christ, which does not include the Trinity? Now how's that for a deal?

 

The gospel (good news) of Jesus Christ:

One of the Laws of Almighty GOD is: Sin results in spiritual death.

All men are sinners (with or without "original sin"), so therefore

all men must die spiritually (be separated from GOD for all of eternity).

God refuses to spend eternity with sinners (who have not been forgiven).

But, GOD did not wish for all of His human creations to be lost forever.

He devised a plan to save mankind: One sinless man could represent us.

Almighty GOD arranged for one man to be born sinless and die sinless.

It was necessary and important for Jesus to shed his blood because GOD

insisted that His ancient “blood covenant†continue to cover over man’s sins.

So, it was always GOD's intention for Jesus to die (and shed his blood).

It was GOD's intention for Jesus to serve as a blood sacrifice for you,

for him to die in your place, for him to take your sins upon himself,

so you could be forgiven ... via GOD’s only plan of salvation.

Note: All of the above is stated clearly in the NT.

 

so? :sl:

[RAHIMI 4]

Tom,

 

Why don't you forget about the Trinity for awhile and try to believe the basic gospel (good news)

of Jesus Christ, which does not include the Trinity? Now how's that for a deal?

 

The gospel (good news) of Jesus Christ:

One of the Laws of Almighty GOD is: Sin results in spiritual death.

All men are sinners (with or without "original sin"), so therefore

all men must die spiritually (be separated from GOD for all of eternity).

God refuses to spend eternity with sinners (who have not been forgiven).

But, GOD did not wish for all of His human creations to be lost forever.

He devised a plan to save mankind: One sinless man could represent us.

Almighty GOD arranged for one man to be born sinless and die sinless.

It was necessary and important for Jesus to shed his blood because GOD

insisted that His ancient “blood covenant†continue to cover over man’s sins.

So, it was always GOD's intention for Jesus to die (and shed his blood).

It was GOD's intention for Jesus to serve as a blood sacrifice for you,

for him to die in your place, for him to take your sins upon himself,

so you could be forgiven ... via GOD’s only plan of salvation.

Note: All of the above is stated clearly in the NT.

Paul wrote most if not all of the above and Jesus pbuh said something completely contradictory to that, both in the Bible. How do you choose one over the other when there is contradiction like that?

[ParadiseLost 333]

Hmm Ameer must be writing book to answer my questions or he just can't answer....i wonder if any other 'expert' can answer my question :sl:

[Ameer7 0]

Paul wrote most if not all of the above and Jesus pbuh said something completely contradictory to that, both in the Bible. How do you choose one over the other when there is contradiction like that?

Okay, I'm 'a gonna make it REAL easy for you ...

Just gives us verses (Jesus vs. Paul) for any ONE of the points in the gospel I gave to you.

[RAHIMI 4]

Okay, I'm 'a gonna make it REAL easy for you ...

Just gives us verses (Jesus vs. Paul) for any ONE of the points in the gospel I gave to you.

This could wait for later, how about addressing what you have in hand from all the responds above? god that committed suicide? What is that?

[twoswordali 0]

This could wait for later, how about addressing what you have in hand from all the responds above? god that committed suicide? What is that?

 

Hey everybody i was kinda waiting for his response but i will give this anyway, now to go along with the suicide argument, if we say that Jesus is not God and that He is Gods begotten son who God sent into the world to die for our sins......... we know the rest right.

 

This makes God a murderer, and its premeditaded murder at that! And its unjust! Jesus died for the sins of others?? Imagine your father is a judge and your father said that he is locking you up or sentencing you to death for the sins of all the murderers and rapist in prison and they get to go free if all they do is say i belive in you and that your dying for them.

 

Jesus died for a child molestor??? So if the child is Muslim or Jew or Buddist and he is raped through out his childhood all his molestor has to do is say i believe in Jesus and im born again and then he dies and he gets paradise but the child who was molested never becomes Christian and he is destined for hell?????

 

Also if we accept that Jesus died on the cross we have to say that he didnt just die..people who die in their sleep or in a hopital bed just die, Jesus was murdered! So how can Jesus die for the sins of mankind and he is dying by sin? The sin of murder at the Hands of God!! If we accept this story that Ameer is giving us then God didnt give His son God had him Murdered! God used the Romans as hit men to murder His only son??

So God commits a sin of murder, to tell us that all is forgiven, if we accept that He murdered His son(by the romans and Jews) and through this sin of murder ,if we accept his son, as his son then all YOUR sins is forgiven!

 

So what then is the purpose of judgement day?? Why do we need to be judged??? If you accept Jesus as the son and the story of the premeditated murder, then you automaticly get paradise all others go to hell.

 

Now here is somthing that will rattle your mind, if the whole world accepted Jesus as the son of God and the story of the murder, and then the whole earth was blow to bits what would be the purpose of having hell?? nobody would be there.

Ameer think deeply on this before you answer bro, to my brothers and sisters out there here is some more fire power for your battle :-)

[Ameer7 0]

This could wait for later, how about addressing what you have in hand from all the responds above?

god that committed suicide? What is that?

Okay, since I'm such a fool, I'll bite. Happy now?

Most of the answer is within the gospel above, but to go a bit deeper:

 

God's Spirit caused a woman to be pregnant (no human father was involved).

So, the baby did not have man's sin nature (bear with me).

God is Spirit.

God is everywhere.

God went inside a man.

(God's plan was for the man to committ suicide 33 years later.)

The man was nowhere near being 100% God (since he was a man).

The man did not have man's sin nature, so he managed not to sin.

So, the man was qualified to be God's perfect sinless sacrificial lamb.

And the man committed suicide.

God did not commit suicide.

 

I hope this makes some sense to you now.

[ParadiseLost 333]

God is everywhere.

God went inside a man.

The man was nowhere near being 100% God (since he was a man).

 

I hope everyone else sees the contradictions here..... :sl:

[twoswordali 0]

Okay, since I'm such a fool, I'll bite.

 

 

:sl: :sl:

 

 

 

 

God's Spirit caused a woman to be pregnant (no human father was involved).

So, the baby did not have man's sin nature (bear with me).

God is Spirit.

God is everywhere.

God went inside a man.

(God's plan was for the man to committ suicide 33 years later.)

 

 

:no: so now your comfortable with God commiting suicide

 

 

The man was nowhere near being 100% God (since he was a man).

The man did not have man's sin nature, so he managed not to sin.

So, the man was qualified to be God's perfect sinless sacrificial lamb.

And the man committed suicide.

God did not commit suicide.

 

I hope this makes some sense to you now.

 

SO JESUS COMMITED SUICIDE LOL OMG LOL ......IF the man didnt have mans sin nature then why did he commit the sin of suicide??? Oh man you really dug yourself deep in this one Ameer.

 

Wow look at how you speak of Jesus he commited suicide wow, man oh man hey whats your skype or your oovoo or your yahoo i would love to help you out there Ameer

[RAHIMI 4]

:sl: :sl:

:no: so now your comfortable with God commiting suicide

SO JESUS COMMITED SUICIDE LOL OMG LOL ......IF the man didnt have mans sin nature then why did he commit the sin of suicide??? Oh man you really dug yourself deep in this one Ameer.

 

Wow look at how you speak of Jesus he commited suicide wow, man oh man hey whats your skype or your oovoo or your yahoo i would love to help you out there Ameer

And to top it off, according to Christianity, those who committed suicide would end up in hell..wow..I hope Ameer sees the irony here..

Edited February 27, 2011 by RAHIMI

[tom 0]

And to top it off, according to Christianity, those who committed suicide would end up in hell..wow..I hope Ameer sees the irony here..

 

muslim guys

 

jesus DID NOT commit suicide, he DIED for our sins. christians believe in salvation via jesus. he was murdered by jews, he didnt take his own life.

 

the difference among christians is that majority believe jesus is almighty god while minority dont. :sl:

[al faqeer 2]

Jesus ?

 

But isnt he one in a trinity with the rest of God :sl: according to you lot ?

 

So werent all three on the cross ? :sl:

[twoswordali 0]

muslim guys

 

jesus DID NOT commit suicide, he DIED for our sins. christians believe in salvation via jesus. he was murdered by jews, he didnt take his own life.

 

the difference among christians is that majority believe jesus is almighty god while minority dont. :sl:

 

 

please explain post 88 and post 71 because Ameer has really let down our Christian brothers on his attempts

[Ameer7 0]

jesus DID NOT commit suicide, he DIED for our sins.

christians believe in salvation via jesus. he was murdered by jews, he didnt take his own life.

the difference among christians is that majority believe jesus is almighty god while minority dont. :sl:

Almighty God has always seen the end from the beginning ... He is not restricted by our time-line.

Before the foundation of the world, the Triune God decided on their most gracious plan of salvation.

So, Jesus obviously came to earth to live in a human body with the full intention of shedding His blood.

Instigated by the jealous Jews, but crucified by the Romans on a cross.

Purposely and premeditatively giving up one's life to be killed (for some cause, or for no cause)

is to me basically the same thing as suicide. Sorry, if you missed my meaning.

[abu_hafs 0]

Almighty God has always seen the end from the beginning ... He is not restricted by our time-line.

Before the foundation of the world, the Triune God decided on their most gracious plan of salvation.

So, Jesus obviously came to earth to live in a human body with the full intention of shedding His blood.

Instigated by the jealous Jews, but crucified by the Romans on a cross.

Purposely and premeditatively giving up one's life to be killed (for some cause, or for no cause)

is to me basically the same thing as suicide. Sorry, if you missed my meaning.

All humans from the time of Adam worshipped a non-triune God.

This is the message of the All the prophets including Noah, Moses, Abrham, Isac and other than them.

Trinity is polytheistic heresy . There is nothing obvious about it .

[Ameer7 0]

All humans from the time of Adam worshipped a non-triune God.

This is the message of the All the prophets including Noah, Moses, Abrham, Isac and other than them.

Sure, that's true.

 

But, in the Old Covenant, God had absolutely NO reason to reveal anything different.

The israelites obviously had way too much to deal with already ...

trying hard to be obedient to God's Laws. Impossible for them (and you).'

For God, it was first things first ... PROVE that man was totally incapable of satisfying God,

while also bringing forth His Messiah-Savior out of the loins of israel.

 

The other reason is that they couldn't handle talk of a Triune God (just like you can't).

They didn't have God's Spirit inside of them revealing spiritual truth to them.

God's Spirit came "upon" the prophets (even occasionally "in") ... but the people

thought the prophets were crazy enough ... without them also talking about a Triune God.

No way, Hose, it wouldn't have worked. The israelites had huge spiritual problems.

They didn't even believe in (or remember?) God's miracles for more than a few days.

 

I hope this clarifies a few things.

[al faqeer 2]

So If the israelite's couldnt handle the trinity why couldnt Messengers and prophets ? Why didnt Abraham call out father Son and Holy ghost nor Moses , so they also didnt have the spirit in them :sl: LOL

[Ameer7 0]

So If the israelite's couldnt handle the trinity why couldnt Messengers and prophets ? Why didnt Abraham call out father Son and Holy ghost nor Moses , so they also didnt have the spirit in them

Yes, of course, this is an interesting question.

God's prophets could easily hear from Him about the Triune God,

and God could have easily told them not to share this info.

Regardless, why would God reveal it at that time?

It just was absolutely unnecessary at that time.

What would have been the point (prior to Messiah Jesus coming on the scene)?

 

Muslims have enough of a problem believing in Jesus' basic gospel

(which really doesn't have anything to do with the Triune God),

without trying to believe something that God must reveal.

God would have to reveal it to you for you to believe it, right?

 

Some believe it from babies on up ... just blind faith.

Many Muslims believe in Quran and Islam in this way.