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kathleen01

Americans Hate Islam

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In regards to the OP. I don't think Americans hate Islam. They hate what they think Islam is. Look at what gets reported to the Americans about Islam. It is never anything good. And lets face it. Most people are to lazy to do their own research. So they take what the media gives them. A lot of fear mongering. One extreemist after another. At least that is how it is as far as I can tell. There are bad eggs in Islam the same as in Christianity and other religions. The bad eggs ruin it for all.

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In regards to the OP. I don't think Americans hate Islam. They hate what they think Islam is. Look at what gets reported to the Americans about Islam. It is never anything good. And lets face it. Most people are to lazy to do their own research. So they take what the media gives them. A lot of fear mongering. One extreemist after another. At least that is how it is as far as I can tell. There are bad eggs in Islam the same as in Christianity and other religions. The bad eggs ruin it for all.

 

i second this. we gotta stay level headed otherwise its gonna be endless tit for tat upheaval. :sl:

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... I wouldn't guess you have the wildest idea of all the wants and hopes of over 300 million people.

 

 

Oh !! But I think she DOES !! :sl:

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Oh !! But I think she DOES !! :sl:

 

whats the 'hidden' agenda for superpower usa wanna invade irag followed by afghanistan and now possibly eyeing at iran? :sl:

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whats the 'hidden' agenda for superpower usa wanna invade irag followed by afghanistan and now possibly eyeing at iran? :sl:

 

 

No. The U.S. is going to let israel slap Iran around. They handle the light work.

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No. The U.S. is going to let israel slap Iran around. They handle the light work.

 

Bye, techdiver.

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Since the OP states Americans seem to hate Islam. What can be done to change the perception of Islam in America?

 

Some suggestions on my part would be a cable program available on basic cable nation wide. (Catholics have ewtn, Prodestants have a couple of channels also).

 

A radio program available nation wide on regular radio (not satellite) There are several Christian stations.

 

These are a few suggestions of mine that I think could help. Also Islam in America is fairly new. Alot of prayers and education is needed. What do yall think?

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whats the 'hidden' agenda for superpower usa wanna invade irag followed by afghanistan and now possibly eyeing at iran? :sl:

 

We invaded Afghanistan first, and we did it to go after bin Ladin who'd declared war on us and was busily engaged in blowing up embassies, running suicide boats against our ships, and bombing buildings we'd gone to a lot of trouble to put up. Were it not for his residence there, we'd have been perfectly happy to go back to ignoring the country entirely following the exit of the Soviet Union.

 

We invaded Iraq for a lot of reasons, but the only reason that really counted was that GHW Bush's son was the president, and Saddam had gone to a lot of trouble to stick his finger in his dad's eye. Hell, the guy had a picture of Papa Bush's face tiled out on the floor of the Baghdad Hilton, strategically placed to require everyone who entered or left to step on it. Did you know they tore up those tiles the first day they entered Baghdad?

 

Iran's a problem because they're pushing for nuclear weapons, which would annoy israel, and even worse, push Saudi Arabia and the rest of the peninsula to get some for themselves, too. The Iranians may not much care for us, but that's nothing compared to how much the Saudis hate Iran. Everybody on that side of the gulf had been paying Saddam for years to fight Iran. They don't get along. It's a Sunni vs. Shia thing, and there's no fight as vicious as a family fight.

 

Nuclear war isn't a good option. It'd be better if we took that off the table over there.

 

As ever, Jesse

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In regards to the OP. I don't think Americans hate Islam. They hate what they think Islam is. Look at what gets reported to the Americans about Islam. It is never anything good. And lets face it. Most people are to lazy to do their own research. So they take what the media gives them. A lot of fear mongering. One extreemist after another. At least that is how it is as far as I can tell. There are bad eggs in Islam the same as in Christianity and other religions. The bad eggs ruin it for all.

Very true, I agree.

 

Since the OP states Americans seem to hate Islam. What can be done to change the perception of Islam in America?

It is up to Muslims to change the perception of Islam in America, like you said most people are too lazy to do their own research on whether what is reported in the media is true. I do think Islam is something people do actually want to know about as it is so topical right now. TV perhaps but I know when I see religious programmes on tv i turn it off because usually the person talking is just talking about their opinion more than anything else. There are actually lots of Islamic radio stations online.

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Since the OP states Americans seem to hate Islam. What can be done to change the perception of Islam in America?

 

Be more willing to assimilate. But I think Islam belief itself does a lot to prevent this.

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Be more willing to assimilate. But I think Islam belief itself does a lot to prevent this.

Assimilation is a failure and I am not being biased or anything but countries who adopt this policy turn out to have problems with minority groups as the minority group are just expected to blend in and not show their own culture such as the Kurds in Turkey. Multiculturalism is also a failure as the minority groups are left to live how they want and then often form ghetto's and distance themselves from the majority culture which is what has happened in the UK. I think an inter cultural policy (a good example being Canada) is the best approach for western countries trying to deal with different cultures. Inter-culturalism encourages interaction between different cultures and I think that is important so that cultures gain understanding of each other and avoid conflict due to ignorance.

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Why is assimilation a failure?? That's what made the US work. Europeans came over and became "Americans". I consider myself American first and Irish second. The problem with Mexican immigration in the US is that they are not cut off from their home country like the Europeans were when they immigrated. So the end result is that they are Mexicans first and Americans second, even though they love the income opportunities. Unfortunately, the mistrust of Muslims in the US is that they are Muslims first and Americans second. They report to Mecca first and Washington second. This is why they refuse to assimilate. This is why Dearborn Michigan has "no go" zones where these people have carved out a slice of the US and transplanted Mecca into it.

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What I said above was highlighted by the Fort Hood shootings. He was a Muslim first and an American soldier second. And there are too many Muslims that feel that no matter how wrong another Muslim is, he is still more right than non Muslims and therefore no non Muslim is allowed to do anything to him. So for him, it wasn't whether the Afghan war was right or wrong, it was simply that it involved Muslims, and therefore it MUST automatically be wrong. Is that the kind of people the US needs to defend the US?

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The other thing that Americans see are mass, violent protests over some cartoons, but when churches get burned in Pakistan and other countries, and Somali Christians are burned alive by Muslims, any protest of this by Muslims, if there is any at all, is quite muted. Someone once said to me that it seems like everything angers Muslims except the deaths of non Muslims.

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Why is assimilation a failure?? That's what made the US work. Europeans came over and became "Americans". I consider myself American first and Irish second. The problem with Mexican immigration in the US is that they are not cut off from their home country like the Europeans were when they immigrated. So the end result is that they are Mexicans first and Americans second, even though they love the income opportunities. Unfortunately, the mistrust of Muslims in the US is that they are Muslims first and Americans second. They report to Mecca first and Washington second. This is why they refuse to assimilate. This is why Dearborn Michigan has "no go" zones where these people have carved out a slice of the US and transplanted Mecca into it.

I beg to differ that assimilation makes the US work. If this was the case there would not be so much emphasis on going back to your roots. Most Americans will call themselves something else along with being American e.g. Latino, Irish, Asian. A lot of people consider themselves American but also have very strong ties with their cultural beliefs. I have Irish relatives in America who call themselves Irish Americans which shows the fact that peoples culture still influences them no matter where they live. People are aware of their cultural heritage and trying to take it away from them just causes problems.

The similarities between assimilation and Inter-culturalism is that there are certain values in society all people have to adhere to but the difference between assimilation and Inter-culturalism is that Inter-culturalism recognises there are different cultures within a society while assimilation just tries to blend all the cultures together into one culture which is why it is referred to as a melting pot.

What I said above was highlighted by the Fort Hood shootings. He was a Muslim first and an American soldier second. And there are too many Muslims that feel that no matter how wrong another Muslim is, he is still more right than non Muslims and therefore no non Muslim is allowed to do anything to him. So for him, it wasn't whether the Afghan war was right or wrong, it was simply that it involved Muslims, and therefore it MUST automatically be wrong. Is that the kind of people the US needs to defend the US?

I am not aware of this case but I agree that some Muslims will back up another Muslim when a non Muslim is involved in an issue even if it is the case the Muslim was wrong. I find this disappointing and I see it too often on this forum when Muslims are too proud to agree with a non Muslim just because they are non Muslim - Islam does not teach us to be arrogant and act like we are above other people and being arrogant is not the behaviour of all Muslims but like I said before it is the responsibility of Muslims to change the attitudes of non Muslims towards Islam.

 

The other thing that Americans see are mass, violent protests over some cartoons, but when churches get burned in Pakistan and other countries, and Somali Christians are burned alive by Muslims, any protest of this by Muslims, if there is any at all, is quite muted. Someone once said to me that it seems like everything angers Muslims except the deaths of non Muslims.

I disagree with the killing of any innocent people and I think most decent people do regardless of religion, unfortunately there are people who do not condone acts of violence and that is also regardless of religion.

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Why is assimilation a failure?? That's what made the US work. Europeans came over and became "Americans". I consider myself American first and Irish second. The problem with Mexican immigration in the US is that they are not cut off from their home country like the Europeans were when they immigrated. So the end result is that they are Mexicans first and Americans second, even though they love the income opportunities. Unfortunately, the mistrust of Muslims in the US is that they are Muslims first and Americans second. They report to Mecca first and Washington second. This is why they refuse to assimilate. This is why Dearborn Michigan has "no go" zones where these people have carved out a slice of the US and transplanted Mecca into it.

I beg to differ that assimilation makes the US work. If this was the case there would not be so much emphasis on going back to your roots. Most Americans will call themselves something else along with being American e.g. Latino, Irish, Asian. A lot of people consider themselves American but also have very strong ties with their cultural beliefs. I have Irish relatives in America who call themselves Irish Americans which shows the fact that peoples culture still influences them no matter where they live. People are aware of their cultural heritage and trying to take it away from them just causes problems.

The similarities between assimilation and Inter-culturalism is that there are certain values in society all people have to adhere to but the difference between assimilation and Inter-culturalism is that Inter-culturalism recognises there are different cultures within a society while assimilation just tries to blend all the cultures together into one culture which is why it is referred to as a melting pot.

What I said above was highlighted by the Fort Hood shootings. He was a Muslim first and an American soldier second. And there are too many Muslims that feel that no matter how wrong another Muslim is, he is still more right than non Muslims and therefore no non Muslim is allowed to do anything to him. So for him, it wasn't whether the Afghan war was right or wrong, it was simply that it involved Muslims, and therefore it MUST automatically be wrong. Is that the kind of people the US needs to defend the US?

I am not aware of this case but I agree that some Muslims will back up another Muslim when a non Muslim is involved in an issue even if it is the case the Muslim was wrong. I find this disappointing and I see it too often on this forum when Muslims are too proud to agree with a non Muslim just because they are non Muslim - Islam does not teach us to be arrogant and act like we are above other people and being arrogant is not the behaviour of all Muslims but like I said before it is the responsibility of Muslims to change the attitudes of non Muslims towards Islam.

 

The other thing that Americans see are mass, violent protests over some cartoons, but when churches get burned in Pakistan and other countries, and Somali Christians are burned alive by Muslims, any protest of this by Muslims, if there is any at all, is quite muted. Someone once said to me that it seems like everything angers Muslims except the deaths of non Muslims.

I disagree with the killing of any innocent people and I think most decent people do regardless of religion, unfortunately there are people who do not condone acts of violence and that is also regardless of religion.

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I beg to differ that assimilation makes the US work. If this was the case there would not be so much emphasis on going back to your roots.

 

Of course one remembers their roots, but they become Americans first. I remember my roots and I even visit Ireland. But if, for some ridiculous reason, the US has a fight with Ireland, I would be an American first. I can't spit in the face of something that has given me so much.

 

Most Americans will call themselves something else along with being American e.g. Latino, Irish, Asian.

 

That's only when a qualification of American is needed

 

A lot of people consider themselves American but also have very strong ties with their cultural beliefs.

 

That's true, but when their cultural beliefs clash with American culture, then they should be Americans first. In a melting pot, as it's called, you can't change the vegetable stew to carrot juice because carrots have special needs

 

I have Irish relatives in America who call themselves Irish Americans which shows the fact that peoples culture still influences them no matter where they live.

 

Yes but notice that they call themselves Irish Americans, rather than American Irish. In English, the qualifier or adjective always comes before the noun. So they are describing what type of American they are.

 

People are aware of their cultural heritage and trying to take it away from them just causes problems.

The similarities between assimilation and Inter-culturalism is that there are certain values in society all people have to adhere to but the difference between assimilation and Inter-culturalism is that Inter-culturalism recognises there are different cultures within a society while assimilation just tries to blend all the cultures together into one culture which is why it is referred to as a melting pot.

 

I never said "take their culture away". I said, put it in the right place.

 

I am not aware of this case

 

He was a Muslim soldier who shot his fellow soldiers only because they happened to be fighting Muslims if they fight in Afghanistan. So no matter what, the Taliban is right because they are Muslims. That was the attitude that caused this.

 

but I agree that some Muslims will back up another Muslim when a non Muslim is involved in an issue even if it is the case the Muslim was wrong. I find this disappointing and I see it too often on this forum when Muslims are too proud to agree with a non Muslim just because they are non Muslim

 

 

And yet if one points to this obvious fact, one is usually told they are crazy, when in fact, they know it's actually true. It's willful camouflage. But people aren't stupid.

 

- Islam does not teach us to be arrogant and act like we are above other people

 

That's questionable and perhaps another topic in of itself. I can quote some Quran verses which could easily suggest where this attitude comes from. It doesn't come out of thin air.

 

and being arrogant is not the behaviour of all Muslims

 

That's certainly true.

 

but like I said before it is the responsibility of Muslims to change the attitudes of non Muslims towards Islam.

 

And they don't because they are too busy trying to change America to meet their religious needs. It's like a guest that you graciously allow to move in and before you know it, they want to repaint your living room to suit THEIR needs.

 

This raises an interesting point. As Newt Gingrich astutely observed, Islam is every bit of a political movement as it is a religious one and it should be treated as such. This is due to the Quran, which is far more political in nature than say, the New Testament.

 

So while we were speaking of cultures, cultures don't challenge political aspects and laws, they merely demand their right to act according to their past culture as long as it doesn't violate laws. But all too often, Muslims seek to CHANGE the LAWS, because Islam has it's own set of laws. So this goes beyond culture and it makes Islam as much of a challenge to democracy as communism was. It is for this reason that they metaphorically report to Mecca before they report to Washington. so there is certainly an extra dimension involved that will always cause a problem in any society that Muslims are a part of, and we see this in Europe all over the place, and they are only a minority. How brazen will they become when their numbers increase?? You don't think they would eventually like to put a minaret on top of Big Ben when they can??

 

And this all has roots in the religion itself. Islam does not demand that everybody become a Muslim, but it DOES demand that everybody be ruled by Muslims, because they practice God's laws.

 

 

 

The other thing that Americans see are mass, violent protests over some cartoons, but when churches get burned in Pakistan and other countries, and Somali Christians are burned alive by Muslims, any protest of this by Muslims, if there is any at all, is quite muted. Someone once said to me that it seems like everything angers Muslims except the deaths of non Muslims.

 

I disagree with the killing of any innocent people and I think most decent people do regardless of religion, unfortunately there are people who do not condone acts of violence and that is also regardless of religion.

 

Well that's just your personal opinion, but again, the protests are much louder over cartoons than they are over the burning of churches. Why don't Muslims speak out just as loudly about that??

 

Anyway, I think this was a good summation as to why Americans are distrustful of Islam and really see no reason they should have it and see no benefit of having it. Ask yourself the following question. What benefit is Islam supposed to bring to America that it doesn't already have?? While people from different cultures bring different talents, what does Islam bring??

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''Of course one remembers their roots, but they become Americans first. I remember my roots and I even visit Ireland. But if, for some ridiculous reason, the US has a fight with Ireland, I would be an American first. I can't spit in the face of something that has given me so much.''

Not all people agree with you on this - why should one choose to be American first before being whatever else they consider themselves to be when they can (using an inter-cultural model) be themselves adhering to certain values all members in society should adhere to. The idea that a person has to choose between this and that is the exact reason people become so defensive of their culture as there is the idea that one culture is superior to all others and thats not just in America.

 

''That's true, but when their cultural beliefs clash with American culture, then they should be Americans first. In a melting pot, as it's called, you can't change the vegetable stew to carrot juice because carrots have special needs''

Not true - a lot of Americans are more close to their cultural beliefs - I really don't know why you are denying this? If it was so great to them to be American then there would not be black ghetto's and gangs of Hispanic and Latino peoples. There are so many conflicts just within America between different cultures. If assimilation works then there would be no ghetto's. This is just one example of how assimilation has failed.

 

''Yes but notice that they call themselves Irish Americans, rather than American Irish. In English, the qualifier or adjective always comes before the noun. So they are describing what type of American they are.

''I never said that they don't consider themselves American either - I am saying these adjectives show the influence of culture on people. Culture is something that is not easily erased from a persons mind. If assimilation worked people would just call themselves American. Assimilation clearly does not work because people want to also feel part of their own culture not just being part of the 'superior culture'.

 

''I never said "take their culture away". I said, put it in the right place.

''And from an assimilationist perspective the right place is in the home and when people come outside of their home they need to forget their own culture and be part of the 'superior culture'.

From an inter-culturalist perspective the right place is in public where cultures can all take part in society while not infringing on the common values of society.

 

 

 

''That's questionable and perhaps another topic in of itself. ''

I can show you a thread I made a while ago referring to the topic of arrogance and no Allah does not tell us to walk around like arrogant people. (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=735164&mode=threaded&pid=1233915"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic...amp;pid=1233915[/url]

 

 

''And they don't because they are too busy trying to change America to meet their religious needs. It's like a guest that you graciously allow to move in and before you know it, they want to repaint your living room to suit THEIR needs. ''

Perhaps it is true from a certain perspective but not all Muslims want to take over America with sharia law believe it or not. Yea I do think Muslim community focus more on some things in other countries when they should focus on fixing regimes in their own countries. But I still believe strongly in communication between religion/cultures and I think it is important for people to be aware of the beliefs of other cultures/religions to prevent prejudices. The Muslim community has a big responsibility in this area but it is also the responsibility of governments worldwide to ensure the proper education is given in this area - if some countries can spend millions on defeating terrorism they can afford to spend on worthwhile education that will go a long way. Some Muslims are very proud to be also a British Muslim/French Muslim etc.

 

 

''So while we were speaking of cultures, cultures don't challenge political aspects and laws, they merely demand their right to act according to their past culture as long as it doesn't violate laws. But all too often, Muslims seek to CHANGE the LAWS, because Islam has it's own set of laws. So this goes beyond culture and it makes Islam as much of a challenge to democracy as communism was. It is for this reason that they metaphorically report to Mecca before they report to Washington. so there is certainly an extra dimension involved that will always cause a problem in any society that Muslims are a part of, and we see this in Europe all over the place, and they are only a minority. How brazen will they become when their numbers increase?? You don't think they would eventually like to put a minaret on top of Big Ben when they can??''

Cultures DO challenge political aspects and this can be seen all throughout history e.g Irish nationalism during British rule certainly challenged the political system.

The Kurds in Turkey certainly challenge the political system.

The BNP in the UK certainly challenge the political system.

Culture is definitely something that challenges the political system in Northern Ireland by being Catholic/Nationalist v Protestant/Unionist.

Langauge in Quebec is something which challenges the political system.

Being Scottish challenges the British political system which was shown in the recent elections.

You need to learn to differentiate between religion and culture. Culture includes religion, language, ethnicity etc.

So before you say Islam is the only thing that tries to change laws you need to look at history.

In any society there are problems coming from gender issues, culture issues and religious issues - I ask you to name one country that does not have this type of social issue.

The places in Europe where there is a problem with Muslims is most in the countries that adopted a multicultural policy ( e.g. UK) because they left it up to the cultures to go and live on their own and that is why ghetto's exist today and that is why certain cultures feel they want to change the law in their area. And like I said before not all Muslims want to take over the country they live in. While Muslims are a minority they are a very big minority 6 million Muslims in France alone is a big number( more than the population of Ireland).

 

No I don't think Muslims would want to put a minaret on top of a clock.

 

 

''Well that's just your personal opinion, but again, the protests are much louder over cartoons than they are over the burning of churches. Why don't Muslims speak out just as loudly about that??''

I am also against those cartoons. People on all sides need to learn to communicate and engage with each other. I am not going to say that Muslims alone are to blame because there are many good Muslims out there and I am not going to say that Muslims alone should bear the responsibility of engaging in communication. There needs to be cooperation on both sides. Obviously a religious man burning cartoons was insensitive to the beliefs of Muslims just like some Muslims are insensitive to other issues.

Not all Muslims reflect the Islamic scripture and that is important to keep in mind.

 

''Ask yourself the following question. What benefit is Islam supposed to bring to America that it doesn't already have?? While people from different cultures bring different talents, what does Islam bring??

''

I respect that most Americans do not want to be ruled by Islam - that is fair enough without being ruled by Islam - Americans can gain a lot from Islam. There are certain things in Islam that are in harmony with other cultures values. America is currently lacking in a lot of moral values whether you like to admit it or not which is why the rates of teenage pregnancies,suicide,drug taking, alcoholism are on the rise. And I am not just picking on America lots of countries have these issues. Judaism, Christianity and Islam have a lot of things in common despite their differences and they can engage in talks with other cultural groups to find more common ground. It is not about what America does not have - it is about what does America have and does not use to it's advantage.

 

I think it is important to focus more on our similarities than our differences.

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''Of course one remembers their roots, but they become Americans first. I remember my roots and I even visit Ireland. But if, for some ridiculous reason, the US has a fight with Ireland, I would be an American first. I can't spit in the face of something that has given me so much.''

Not all people agree with you on this - why should one choose to be American first before being whatever else they consider themselves to be when they can (using an inter-cultural model) be themselves adhering to certain values all members in society should adhere to. The idea that a person has to choose between this and that is the exact reason people become so defensive of their culture as there is the idea that one culture is superior to all others and thats not just in America.

 

''That's true, but when their cultural beliefs clash with American culture, then they should be Americans first. In a melting pot, as it's called, you can't change the vegetable stew to carrot juice because carrots have special needs''

Not true - a lot of Americans are more close to their cultural beliefs - I really don't know why you are denying this? If it was so great to them to be American then there would not be black ghetto's and gangs of Hispanic and Latino peoples. There are so many conflicts just within America between different cultures. If assimilation works then there would be no ghetto's. This is just one example of how assimilation has failed.

 

''Yes but notice that they call themselves Irish Americans, rather than American Irish. In English, the qualifier or adjective always comes before the noun. So they are describing what type of American they are.

''I never said that they don't consider themselves American either - I am saying these adjectives show the influence of culture on people. Culture is something that is not easily erased from a persons mind. If assimilation worked people would just call themselves American. Assimilation clearly does not work because people want to also feel part of their own culture not just being part of the 'superior culture'.

 

''I never said "take their culture away". I said, put it in the right place.

''And from an assimilationist perspective the right place is in the home and when people come outside of their home they need to forget their own culture and be part of the 'superior culture'.

From an inter-culturalist perspective the right place is in public where cultures can all take part in society while not infringing on the common values of society.

 

 

 

''That's questionable and perhaps another topic in of itself. ''

I can show you a thread I made a while ago referring to the topic of arrogance and no Allah does not tell us to walk around like arrogant people. (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=735164&mode=threaded&pid=1233915"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic...amp;pid=1233915[/url]

 

 

''And they don't because they are too busy trying to change America to meet their religious needs. It's like a guest that you graciously allow to move in and before you know it, they want to repaint your living room to suit THEIR needs. ''

Perhaps it is true from a certain perspective but not all Muslims want to take over America with sharia law believe it or not. Yea I do think Muslim community focus more on some things in other countries when they should focus on fixing regimes in their own countries. But I still believe strongly in communication between religion/cultures and I think it is important for people to be aware of the beliefs of other cultures/religions to prevent prejudices. The Muslim community has a big responsibility in this area but it is also the responsibility of governments worldwide to ensure the proper education is given in this area - if some countries can spend millions on defeating terrorism they can afford to spend on worthwhile education that will go a long way. Some Muslims are very proud to be also a British Muslim/French Muslim etc.

 

 

''So while we were speaking of cultures, cultures don't challenge political aspects and laws, they merely demand their right to act according to their past culture as long as it doesn't violate laws. But all too often, Muslims seek to CHANGE the LAWS, because Islam has it's own set of laws. So this goes beyond culture and it makes Islam as much of a challenge to democracy as communism was. It is for this reason that they metaphorically report to Mecca before they report to Washington. so there is certainly an extra dimension involved that will always cause a problem in any society that Muslims are a part of, and we see this in Europe all over the place, and they are only a minority. How brazen will they become when their numbers increase?? You don't think they would eventually like to put a minaret on top of Big Ben when they can??''

Cultures DO challenge political aspects and this can be seen all throughout history e.g Irish nationalism during British rule certainly challenged the political system.

The Kurds in Turkey certainly challenge the political system.

The BNP in the UK certainly challenge the political system.

Culture is definitely something that challenges the political system in Northern Ireland by being Catholic/Nationalist v Protestant/Unionist.

Langauge in Quebec is something which challenges the political system.

Being Scottish challenges the British political system which was shown in the recent elections.

You need to learn to differentiate between religion and culture. Culture includes religion, language, ethnicity etc.

So before you say Islam is the only thing that tries to change laws you need to look at history.

In any society there are problems coming from gender issues, culture issues and religious issues - I ask you to name one country that does not have this type of social issue.

The places in Europe where there is a problem with Muslims is most in the countries that adopted a multicultural policy ( e.g. UK) because they left it up to the cultures to go and live on their own and that is why ghetto's exist today and that is why certain cultures feel they want to change the law in their area. And like I said before not all Muslims want to take over the country they live in. While Muslims are a minority they are a very big minority 6 million Muslims in France alone is a big number( more than the population of Ireland).

 

No I don't think Muslims would want to put a minaret on top of a clock.

 

 

''Well that's just your personal opinion, but again, the protests are much louder over cartoons than they are over the burning of churches. Why don't Muslims speak out just as loudly about that??''

I am also against those cartoons. People on all sides need to learn to communicate and engage with each other. I am not going to say that Muslims alone are to blame because there are many good Muslims out there and I am not going to say that Muslims alone should bear the responsibility of engaging in communication. There needs to be cooperation on both sides. Obviously a religious man burning cartoons was insensitive to the beliefs of Muslims just like some Muslims are insensitive to other issues.

Not all Muslims reflect the Islamic scripture and that is important to keep in mind.

 

''Ask yourself the following question. What benefit is Islam supposed to bring to America that it doesn't already have?? While people from different cultures bring different talents, what does Islam bring??

''

I respect that most Americans do not want to be ruled by Islam - that is fair enough without being ruled by Islam - Americans can gain a lot from Islam. There are certain things in Islam that are in harmony with other cultures values. America is currently lacking in a lot of moral values whether you like to admit it or not which is why the rates of teenage pregnancies,suicide,drug taking, alcoholism are on the rise. And I am not just picking on America lots of countries have these issues. Judaism, Christianity and Islam have a lot of things in common despite their differences and they can engage in talks with other cultural groups to find more common ground. It is not about what America does not have - it is about what does America have and does not use to it's advantage.

 

I think it is important to focus more on our similarities than our differences.

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I don't know why my posts are appearing twice :/ Moderator can you delete my repeats please.

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Not true - a lot of Americans are more close to their cultural beliefs - I really don't know why you are denying this?

 

Do you live in Britain or the US?

 

If assimilation works then there would be no ghetto's. This is just one example of how assimilation has failed.

 

Actually, it's the lack of assimilation that causes this. Blacks view everything as a "white man's" thing. For example, speaking the english language properly rather than purposefully butchering it is considered a "white man's" thing. But if a black man simply stops butchering the english language and becomes well spoken, he can even be president.

''And from an assimilationist perspective the right place is in the home and when people come outside of their home they need to forget their own culture and be part of the 'superior culture'.

 

Yes, I would agree. That's what I do.

 

From an inter-culturalist perspective the right place is in public where cultures can all take part in society while not infringing on the common values of society.

 

Yes, while not infringing on the common values of that society, which is what they often end up doing.

 

 

I can show you a thread I made a while ago referring to the topic of arrogance and no Allah does not tell us to walk around like arrogant people. you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic...amp;pid=1233915

 

I'll go to that topic and discuss it there. Sometimes, when i hear things like this, it makes me wonder whether the person has actually ever read the entire Quran.

 

''And they don't because they are too busy trying to change America to meet their religious needs. It's like a guest that you graciously allow to move in and before you know it, they want to repaint your living room to suit THEIR needs. ''

Perhaps it is true from a certain perspective

 

Why is that a matter of "perspective"?? It's happening all the time and it's even worse in France and Britain. Read up on the woman that sued to get her Florida driver's license without having to take off her full cover burqa for her photo. Here's a photo of a New Jersey license

 

burka_license.jpg

 

LOL!!!

 

And then, there was the Muslim boy who sued because he was a check out bagger at a grocery store but refused to even touch a wrapped pork product. He knew that was part of his job. If he didn't like it, then get a job at a Masjid.

 

And then, there was the women who sued Disney Land because she wasn't allowed to wear her headscarf. Everything in Disney is about a specific dress and costume. That's the theme. So now, they are no longer allowed to have the theme they want

 

This one always cracked me up

Islamic%20women%20photo.jpg

 

Smile for the camera ladies. ((chuckle chuckle)). I swear Fatima, I was there. I'm the one in the middle...Really... ((chuckle chuckle))

 

but not all Muslims want to take over America with sharia law believe it or not.

 

Who said all of them do?? Not all of them realize that Islam says that God's law must rule. Again, Islam does NOT say that everybody has to be a Muslim, but it DOES say that they must be ruled by God's law, which is Islamic law, which means Muslims ruling. The only thing that prevents this is that Muslims aren't in a position to demand this. How could a Muslim call himself a Muslim and NOT demand that God's law be the rule of the land?? Can you answer that for me??

 

 

Cultures DO challenge political aspects and this can be seen all throughout history e.g Irish nationalism during British rule certainly challenged the political system.

The Kurds in Turkey certainly challenge the political system.

The BNP in the UK certainly challenge the political system.

Culture is definitely something that challenges the political system in Northern Ireland by being Catholic/Nationalist v Protestant/Unionist.

Langauge in Quebec is something which challenges the political system.

Being Scottish challenges the British political system which was shown in the recent elections.

You need to learn to differentiate between religion and culture. Culture includes religion, language, ethnicity etc.

So before you say Islam is the only thing that tries to change laws you need to look at history.

In any society there are problems coming from gender issues, culture issues and religious issues - I ask you to name one country that does not have this type of social issue.

The places in Europe where there is a problem with Muslims is most in the countries that adopted a multicultural policy ( e.g. UK) because they left it up to the cultures to go and live on their own and that is why ghetto's exist today and that is why certain cultures feel they want to change the law in their area. And like I said before not all Muslims want to take over the country they live in. While Muslims are a minority they are a very big minority 6 million Muslims in France alone is a big number( more than the population of Ireland).

 

So Muslims DO seek to change the laws and non Muslim Americans are supposed to like this?? You were supposed to deny it rather than provide other examples of the same thing. So why shouldn't this concern non Muslim Americans?? Remember, that's the topic of this thread. Why Americans don't like Islam.

 

No I don't think Muslims would want to put a minaret on top of a clock.

 

Yes, you don't think so. Muslims would never want Islam to be glorified ((chuckle chuckle))

 

Not all Muslims reflect the Islamic scripture and that is important to keep in mind.

 

And i think that you are one of them as you seek to whitewash it.

 

''Ask yourself the following question. What benefit is Islam supposed to bring to America that it doesn't already have?? While people from different cultures bring different talents, what does Islam bring??

''

 

I respect that most Americans do not want to be ruled by Islam

 

Yes, YOU do, but what's to say that a majority of Muslims don't agree with you?

 

- that is fair enough without being ruled by Islam - Americans can gain a lot from Islam. There are certain things in Islam that are in harmony with other cultures values. America is currently lacking in a lot of moral values whether you like to admit it or not which is why the rates of teenage pregnancies,suicide,drug taking, alcoholism are on the rise.

 

American society is the way it is because it chooses to be that way. With freedoms come problems, but they don't want to give up freedoms to solve problems, so obviously, the benefit outweighs the problems, or else they would simply legislate against these things. you don't need a religion to do that. And how would Islam solve these problems?? By forcing people to stoop these things?? If Americans want that, they can simply legislate it. Who needs Islam to force them?? Christianity is already against those things but people don't care. If you meet a pious Christian, they are not anything like those people.

 

And I am not just picking on America lots of countries have these issues. Judaism, Christianity and Islam have a lot of things in common despite their differences and they can engage in talks with other cultural groups to find more common ground. It is not about what America does not have - it is about what does America have and does not use to it's advantage.

 

Again, what advantage would Islam offer that Americans couldn't do themselves if they so choose?? Who needs Islam to do that?? If democracy doesn't do that, then for some reason, it isn't what people want. Otherwise, they could simply vote it in and have it legislated.

 

I think it is important to focus more on our similarities than our differences.

 

For who's benefit?? I honestly don't ever remember Americans asking for more Islam and more Muslims.

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Assimilation is a failure and I am not being biased or anything but countries who adopt this policy turn out to have problems with minority groups as the minority group are just expected to blend in and not show their own culture such as the Kurds in Turkey. Multiculturalism is also a failure as the minority groups are left to live how they want and then often form ghetto's and distance themselves from the majority culture which is what has happened in the UK. I think an inter cultural policy (a good example being Canada) is the best approach for western countries trying to deal with different cultures. Inter-culturalism encourages interaction between different cultures and I think that is important so that cultures gain understanding of each other and avoid conflict due to ignorance.

Canada is officially a multi-cultural country. This is a policy that many believe to be a failure and we are closely monitoring Europes' problems. We are not experiencing the same level of problems that they are, but the disdain for multiculturalism in Canada is widespread. Although many people do assimilate, many don't and contribute as much to racism and misunderstandings as anyone else. Many would rather have the American melting pot here. I guess the jury is still out.

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I lived in the UK for 2 years actually and have relatives there who I often visit there plus I was born and live in Ireland. You also lack theoretical knowledge on what assimilation is plus you can't differentiate between culture and religion.

I would reply to your comments if you had have kept the discussion mature but I am not going to waste my time with your ''chuckle chuckle''and immaturity. I prefer to spend my time talking to people willing to learn rather than chuckle chuckle.

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Hi all

 

From an inter-culturalist perspective the right place is in public where cultures can all take part in society while not infringing on the common values of society.

 

Please explain how this can happen with Islam?. Muslims here ( England ) dont want to be a part of our society they want there rules, there laws etc. is this not a factor of Islam itself?, to want to impose Islamic law on everyone in the world?.

 

I often see Muslims holding signs saying "Islam WILL dominate the world"...tell me Why would i or anyone in a half decent society WANT to welcome anyone or any relgion or in this case an ideology (Islam) that wants to dominate me and our country?. Why?.

 

It baffles me to say the least. You can have your Masjid's in England, your free to follow your religion/ideology in England. Your free to say you hate everything the west stands for. But you are not free to impose it on others because you believe it to be true and neither are we.

 

Sounds in my opinion like Nazism dont you think?.

 

Peace

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