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Six Million Africans Muslims Leave Islam Every Year

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I seriously doubt that six million Muslims are converting to Christianity each year. While undoubtedly there are Muslims in Africa who do convert to EChristianity, these people 'convert' only to receive aid and not for religious purposes. Alot of Christian Evangelism is based on money. They will just about do anything just to get converts. Numbers are their primary concern. The stuff that they allow, such as for example allowing ancestor worship in China just to get more converts; creates a type of 'Christianity' that is very dSifferent from as it is known in the West. This concern for numbers and more converts actually doesn't really spread Christianity at all. Since the 'Christianity' that exists when the people are 'converted' is not much different than the peoples original religion.

 

Also, if six million Muslims in Africa alone were converting to Christianity, then Africa would have much much much more Christians and far less Muslims than it does today.

 

In fact, Islam is also spreading in Africa; check up South Africa or Rwanda or other parts. The difference in Islamic spread however, is that Islam is not changed, It is not changed simply for the sake of more converts and thus increased numbers.

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...Muslims dont care much about democracy .

 

 

For people who 'don't care much about democracy' muslims sure bend over backwards to live in one. Do you think they are a bit hypocritical, moving to 'The Great Satan' just for the good life ? Why not move to iran instead ? :sl:

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How did this post end up in this thread ? My mistake !! :sl:

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according to wikipedia, there're 1.57 billion muslims in the world, making up 23% of the world population. lets say there's 900,000,000 african muslims and 6,000,000 leave annually. that'll gonna take 150 years (correct me). you're save dude. you'll gonna see no african muslim no more if you're gonna live that long. and from which year is that? :sl:

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2tap, to know about Democracy you need to know the history of Democracy - Democracy's inception began when bunch of Money Lenders and Profiteering Individuals wanted to end the "dominance" of feudals, so to say that Democracy came from the barrel of the gun to down the feudal system - The current democracy is a union of Capitalists who wanted to secure their wealth from the poors and under-privileged people.

 

For Muslims, Caliphate is the only way

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2tap, to know about Democracy you need to know the history of Democracy - Democracy's inception began when bunch of Money Lenders and Profiteering Individuals wanted to end the "dominance" of feudals, so to say that Democracy came from the barrel of the gun to down the feudal system - The current democracy is a union of Capitalists who wanted to secure their wealth from the poors and under-privileged people.

 

For Muslims, Caliphate is the only way

 

 

I'm going to believe YOU when it comes to history (or anything else) ? Aren't you the guy posting all the twisted, totally debunked garbage about 9/11 ? Fighter squadrons that don't exist and poor geographical 'proof', to mention just a few examples. ? HAHAHAHAHA !!! Would you like to elaborate on who you think the 'Money Lenders and Profiteering Individuals' are ? :sl:

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2tap:

 

Actually, many democratic principles were implemented under Islamic rule. Research it.

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2tap:

 

Actually, many democratic principles were implemented under Islamic rule. Research it.

 

 

 

The caliph was still 'all powerful'. (as we spin off topic)

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according to wikipedia, there're 1.57 billion muslims in the world, making up 23% of the world population. lets say there's 900,000,000 african muslims and 6,000,000 leave annually. that'll gonna take 150 years (correct me). you're save dude. you'll gonna see no african muslim no more if you're gonna live that long. and from which year is that? :sl:

 

 

 

I didn't say I'd live to see anything. I just said that six million a year is a lot.

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2tap, don't drink and drive.....you're completely out of sense and have no idea what I am talking about

 

[at] Hydra: For instance???

Edited by silkworm

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Silkworm:

 

Assalum Alaikum,

 

The Abbasid Caliphate was one such example, Another was the Ottoman Empire, Mughal Empire, Ummayid Caliphate, Indonesian Sultanates, Muslim Spain (Al-Andalus), Sub-Saharan Africa, and others.

 

Non-Muslims such as Jews Christians, and in India even were given protection and rights. For example, take India, Muslim rulers could have converted the entire subcontinent to Islam, but they hadn't forced them to...

 

When Islam first spread, it did not spread by the sword but rather by people who accepted its principles and it thus greatly improved the quality of life for them.

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Allah said,

 

[ÞóÜÊöáõæÇú ÇáøóÃöíäó áÇó íõÄúãöäõæäó ÈöÇááøóåö æóáÇó ÈöÇáúíóæúãö ÇáÇøñÎöÑö æóáÇó íõÃóÑøöãõæäó ãóÇ ÃóÑøóãó Çááøóåõ æóÑóÓõæáõåõ æóáÇó íóÃöíäõæäó Ãöíäó ÇáúÃóÞøö ãöäó ÇáøóÃöíäó ÃõæÊõæÇú ÇáúßöÊóÜÈó ÃóÊøóì íõÚúØõæÇú ÇáúÌöÒúíóÉó Úóä íóÃò æóåõãú ÕóÜÛöÑõæäó ]

 

(Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.) Therefore, when People of the Scriptures disbelieved in Muhammad , they had no beneficial faith in any Messenger or what the Messengers brought. Rather, they followed their religions because this conformed with their ideas, lusts and the ways of their forefathers, not because they are Allah's Law and religion. Had they been true believers in their religions, that faith would have directed them to believe in Muhammad , because all Prophets gave the good news of Muhammad's advent and commanded them to obey and follow him. Yet when he was sent, they disbelieved in him, even though he is the mightiest of all Messengers. Therefore, they do not follow the religion of earlier Prophets because these religions came from Allah, but because these suit their desires and lusts. Therefore, their claimed faith in an earlier Prophet will not benefit them because they disbelieved in the master, the mightiest, the last and most perfect of all Prophets . Hence Allah's statement,

 

[ÞóÜÊöáõæÇú ÇáøóÃöíäó áÇó íõÄúãöäõæäó ÈöÇááøóåö æóáÇó ÈöÇáúíóæúãö ÇáÇøñÎöÑö æóáÇó íõÃóÑøöãõæäó ãóÇ ÃóÑøóãó Çááøóåõ æóÑóÓõæáõåõ æóáÇó íóÃöíäõæäó Ãöíäó ÇáúÃóÞøö ãöäó ÇáøóÃöíäó ÃõæÊõæÇú ÇáúßöÊóÜÈó]

 

(Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture,) This honorable Ayah was revealed with the order to fight the People of the Book, after the pagans were defeated, the people entered Allah's religion in large numbers, and the Arabian Peninsula was secured under the Muslims' control. Allah commanded His Messenger to fight the People of the Scriptures, Jews and Christians, on the ninth year of Hijrah, and he prepared his army to fight the Romans and called the people to Jihad announcing his intent and destination. The Messenger sent his intent to various Arab areas around Al-Madinah to gather forces, and he collected an army of thirty thousand. Some people from Al-Madinah and some hypocrites, in and around it, lagged behind, for that year was a year of drought and intense heat. The Messenger of Allah marched, heading towards Ash-Sham to fight the Romans until he reached Tabuk, where he set camp for about twenty days next to its water resources. He then prayed to Allah for a decision and went back to Al-Madinah because it was a hard year and the people were weak, as we will mention, Allah willing.

 

 

 

Paying Jizyah is a Sign of Kufr and Disgrace

 

Allah said,

 

[ÃóÊøóì íõÚúØõæÇú ÇáúÌöÒúíóÉó]

 

(until they pay the Jizyah), if they do not choose to embrace Islam,

 

[Úóä íóÃò]

 

(with willing submission), in defeat and subservience,

 

[æóåõãú ÕóÜÛöÑõæäó]

 

(and feel themselves subdued.), disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated. Muslim recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said,

 

«áóÇ ÊóÈúÃóÃõæÇ ÇáúíóåõæÃó æóÇáäøóÕóÇÑóì ÈöÇáÓøóáóÇãö¡ æóÅöÃóÇ áóÞöíÊõãú ÃóÃóÃóåõãú Ãöí ØóÑöíÞò ÃóÇÖúØóÑøõæåõ Åöáóì ÃóÖúíóÞöå»

 

(Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley.) This is why the Leader of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, these conditions that ensured their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace. The scholars of Hadith narrated from `Abdur-Rahman bin Ghanm Al-Ash`ari that he said, "I recorded for `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, the terms of the treaty of peace he conducted with the Christians of Ash-Sham: `In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. This is a document to the servant of Allah `Umar, the Leader of the faithful, from the Christians of such and such city. When you (Muslims) came to us we requested safety for ourselves, children, property and followers of our religion. We made a condition on ourselves that we will neither erect in our areas a monastery, church, or a sanctuary for a monk, nor restore any place of worship that needs restoration nor use any of them for the purpose of enmity against Muslims. We will not prevent any Muslim from resting in our churches whether they come by day or night, and we will open the doors [of our houses of worship] for the wayfarer and passerby. Those Muslims who come as guests, will enjoy boarding and food for three days. We will not allow a spy against Muslims into our churches and homes or hide deceit [or betrayal] against Muslims. We will not teach our children the Qur'an, publicize practices of Shirk, invite anyone to Shirk or prevent any of our fellows from embracing Islam, if they choose to do so. We will respect Muslims, move from the places we sit in if they choose to sit in them. We will not imitate their clothing, caps, turbans, sandals, hairstyles, speech, nicknames and title names, or ride on saddles, hang swords on the shoulders, collect weapons of any kind or carry these weapons. We will not encrypt our stamps in Arabic, or sell liquor. We will have the front of our hair cut, wear our customary clothes wherever we are, wear belts around our waist, refrain from erecting crosses on the outside of our churches and demonstrating them and our books in public in Muslim fairways and markets. We will not sound the bells in our churches, except discretely, or raise our voices while reciting our holy books inside our churches in the presence of Muslims, nor raise our voices [with prayer] at our funerals, or light torches in funeral processions in the fairways of Muslims, or their markets. We will not bury our dead next to Muslim dead, or buy servants who were captured by Muslims. We will be guides for Muslims and refrain from breaching their privacy in their homes.' When I gave this document to `Umar, he added to it, `We will not beat any Muslim. These are the conditions that we set against ourselves and followers of our religion in return for safety and protection. If we break any of these promises that we set for your benefit against ourselves, then our Dhimmah (promise of protection) is broken and you are allowed to do with us what you are allowed of people of defiance and rebellion.'''

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.....you're completely out of sense and have no idea what I am talking about...

 

 

 

Sort of like your wild conspiracies that no one follows or believes ? :sl:

Edited by 2tap

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Anyway....six million a year is A LOT !!

 

Their loss.

 

Salam.

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Christianization means the following: preparing plans, and executing these plans and evolving these plans to change Muslims into Christians by taking advantage of the ignorance and poverty (of the people) and whatever necessitates from similar circumstances.

 

So, we are faced with the issue of taking advantage of circumstances, taking advantage of humanitarian needs, taking advantage of the lack of education for example, that these people (missionaries) use to take Muslims out of their religion.

 

Only a delusional person thinks that Muslims don't engage in this as well. I've experienced this on this forum, when people claim Islam does not allow things that it actually does. I met a girl who converted because she was told that Muhammad was the paraclete and she seemed shocked and confused when I told her the real deal....

Islam used to represent, as you previously mentioned, Africa?s main religion and there were 30 African languages that used to be written in Arabic script. The number of Muslims in Africa has diminished to 316 million, half of whom are Arabs in North Africa. So in the section of Africa that we are talking about, the non Arab section, the number of Muslims does not exceed 150 million people. When we realize that the entire population of Africa is one billion people, we see that the number of Muslims has diminished greatly from what it was in the beginning of the last century. On the other hand, the number of Catholics has increased from one million in 1902 to 329 million 882 thousand (329,882,000). Let us round off that number to 330 million in the year 2000.

 

As to how that happened, well there are now 1.5 million churches whose congregations account for 46 million people. In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million

Muslims convert to Christianity. These numbers are very large indeed ?..

 

 

Islam was not the main religion in Africa. Prior to the Islamic conquests in Africa, Christianity had been around since the first century, some of the communities had been evangalised by Jesus' own disciples Mark (founder of the church in Alexandria, Egypt). Traditional religions also existed.

 

Islam in Africa is concentrated in the Northern, Western and along the eastern coast with small communities in northern Mozambique from the days of the Omani Sultanate.

 

Great (question)! The other religions are not placed on the list of Christianization; rather they are placed on the list of evangelization. The other religion in Africa is paganism; so it?s Islam, Christianity or paganism. There isn?t something similar to Asia for example where you have Buddhism or Zoroastrianism. In Africa it is just these three, so if you talk about Christianization then it targets the only other heavenly religion which is Islam. As for paganism, those people worship animals and planets and the like.

 

This person in ignorant. There is animism and paganism - not all animists are pagans. Animism is the belief that all things have a soul, which I've also heard from Jews... Monotheism exists in traditional African religions, for example, Zulu people believe in one God, the Creator, and do not make idols to God or animals or planets which they worship (same goes for other communities in South Africa). Witchcraft is frowned upon. They may beseech the dead for intercession, but there are Muslims who do this too!!!

 

Let me ask you in this regard. I appreciate that the organizations of the civil societies in our part of the world are rather recent, and perhaps they haven?t matured to the point of becoming streamlined, but what about the Arab nations? Some Arab nations boast about the amount of money they spend in the cause of spreading Islam, especially in Africa. Is there a unified official Arab effort? Official meaning on a governmental level?

 

Ahmad Al Katani:

There is, but my dear sir, the issue of Christianization is too large and massive for all Arab societies combined to overcome, let alone a single Arab nation. And even if this Arab spent money for the effort, what will it spend? Add to this the lack of sound planning. So for example, money from donations and religious contributions are gathered and taken to Africa, which does happen, to build a Masjid.

 

“After a meeting with Qadhafi in September 1976, Bokassa converted to Islam and changed his name to Salah Eddine Ahmed Bokassa, but in December 1976 he converted back to the Catholicism. It is presumed that this was a ploy calculated to ensure ongoing Libyan financial aid. When no funds promised by Gaddafi were forthcoming, Bokassa abandoned his new faith. It also was incompatible with his plans to be crowned emperor in the Catholic cathedral in Bangui.”

 

Every year ?.. In the African nations this century a tragedy happened. Take for example what happened in Ethiopia. Ethiopia is an Arab nation and I am not saying a muslim nation. If any student looks up the word Habasha (Ethiopia) in the book Ocean Dictionary written by Al-Fairuz Abady, he will find that the word Habashat means ?people of different tribes? and this is what happened. Ethiopia was a place where Arabs from different tribes would go to live for a while. We all know that Islam entered Ethiopia before Islam entered the city of Medina. We all know that AL-Najashy (the ruler of Ethiopia) was a Muslim. It is mentioned by Al-Darkatny in his biography of the prophet ? Allah?s prayer and peace be upon him ? that during the month of Rajab in the 9th year of the Hijra (Muslim calendar) that the prophet said to his companions: ?Rise up and pray on your brother Al-Najashy.? From that year on the practice of praying on the absent was established. Therefore from the time of the prophet ? Allah?s prayer and peace be upon him ? Islam entered Ethiopia. So what has happened to Ethiopia?

 

What this person fails to mention is that Christianity was in Ethiopia for centuries prior to Muhammad's birth, yet he makes it seem as if Christianity is a novelty there. Muslims make up 40% of the Ethiopian population. Islam is prevalent among the Somali, Afar, Argobba and Harari, and the largest group of the Oromo peoples. There are some groups with Arab ancestry but not all Ethiopians. Ethiopians do not consider themselves Arab nor do Arabs consider them Arab and Ethiopia is not a member state of the Arab league. Ethiopians speak Amharic (32.7%), Oromo (31.6%), not Arabic and if I am not mistakn, the Oromo are a predominantly Muslim group.

 

Upon the death of Menelik in 1913, the country was being run by his 16-year old grandson Lij Iyasu. Menelik had named him his successor and thus the council of ministers couldn't prevent the minor from taking over. When Menelik passed away, Iyasu tried to keep the news a secret. He had Menelik's wife and daughter removed from the capital and was "disrespectful to Menelik's old nobles." Iyasu wasn't anti-muslim like the preceding rulers (his father used to be muslim). He tried to accommodate both followers of Christianity and Islam. He married into families of both religions. He founded churches and built Masjids.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetethiopianhistory(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Haile_Selassie"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetethiopianhistory(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Haile_Selassie[/url]

Under the former Emperor Haile Selassie, Muslim communities could bring matters of personal and family Law and inheritance before Islamic courts; many did so and probably continued to do so under the revolutionary regime.

 

Wikipedia

 

Where are the references to support the claims made concerning Haile Selassie? Julius Nyerere was a politician who happened to be a Roman Catholic, but was not an ordained priest (he was married and priests do not marry). If I remember my history correctly, his deputy and successor was a Muslim. I also cannot find the supporting evidence of the alleged massacre. Please provide a link also. I’ll believe it when I see evidence.

 

As for the topic of necessity exploitation, then a nation like Somalia, whose population is 9.5 million people, are all Muslim without exception. There are no Christians or pagans. And if you did find any then they are an insignificant number that are not even on official statistics. A Belgian missionary by the name of Sabeh came to Somalia and purchased 30,000 Muslim youth, he took advantage of their parents poverty, and we all know the terrible situation that Somalia is going through now and what it went through a few years ago. This is taking advantage of a humanitarian need that any human can go through.

 

Maher Abdallah: (interrupting)

Excuse me, what do you mean purchased?

 

Ahmad Al Katani:

You know that the current laws forbid trading in slaves, but I can?t find another expression to use. The man asked (from the country of Belgium) approximately forty million dollars or slightly less and it (Belgium) hurried in sending the money to him out of fear that this opportunity will be lost. Belgium sent the money in a very short time, and he (the missionary) paid this money to the parents of the youth and I can only call it buying and selling, there is no other name for it. The result was that 30,000 children were made Christian and baptized in the churches. I say this with all regret, but these children are now adults. This event occurred a number of years ago and these youth are now adults and what is more dangerous is that these people will return to their families; some of them have already returned indeed and others will return. This tragedy happened in Somalia, people?s poverty was taken advantage of and this humiliation happened in front of the eyes of on lookers.

 

Again, I cannot find news articles or sites carrying this story, except for websites which have published this interview. What is the full name of this person and when did this event happen? Christianity does not allow slavery.

 

Yes. In Zaire there are now half a million muslim refugees, only Muslims are subjugated to severe missions of Christianization. I am sorry to say something and I am not the first to make this point; it has been said before: the bounty of humanitarian aid that is delivered goes to the Christians, and now because of this opportunity the muslims are Christianized in Zaire. There are half a million Muslims targeted for christianiztion on a daily basis. There is a horrific absence of muslim effort in the field. There is no Arabic or muslim (missionary) presence in Africa, except on a token level, nothing productive.

 

Humanitarian aid goes to Christian charities because they are willing to help where they can. Those who promise aid for conversion are wrong, as this was reported in Haiti. Many Muslim charities focus mainly in Muslim countries and most of the few wealthy Muslim nations focus their aid to poor Muslim countries. In terms of PR, Muslim aid groups made more appeals in the media for aid during Pakistan floods, whereas I don’t recall any for Haiti. DRC needs aid and they will accept it from whomever it comes and they do not bar Muslims from entering. Check out Islamic Relief: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamic-relief(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/NewsRoom/6-2-206-ir-in-the-drc.aspx"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamic-relief(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/NewsRoom/6-2...in-the-drc.aspx[/url]

 

 

Also, the Arab-Islamic slave trade in Africa, which lasted over a thousand years and the spread of Islam in Africa by violent conquest is also what puts some people off Islam. Muslim slave traders referred to black people as kaffirs and it is a fact that they avoided making dawah so that they could enslave them, and yes, there was a racial element, which is partly why North Africans and Sudanese regard themselves as Arab (even though most aren't of Arab descent) and have been Arabised through Arab-Islamic colonialism, as notions of Arab racial superiority remain from the days that Arab Muslims were the ruling class in these countries and non-Arabs were the oppressed and the enslave, subjected to castration and sex trafficking. A fine example is Egypt where Christians do not identify as Arabs and still maintain a form of the Coptic language whereas Muslim Egyptians consider themselves Arab.

 

Some Arabs see themselves as superior to Africans which explains the plight of black Egyptians & Iraqis and the genocide and enslavement of black Sudanese. Islam is tied up with Arabism in Africa, and the relations between Arabs (cultural or true Arabs) and non-Arabs has been one of oppression of the latter group. The difference between Arabs and Europeans who have also colonised and enslaved, is that there is regret for the atrocities of the past, whereas Arabs and Muslims do not feel ashamed about any of it and I actually notice a false sense of moral superiority - Muslims and Arabs often go on about European colonialism and slavery as if they are barbarians, but the truth is that Muslims did the same!!! Slavery is still practiced openly in some Muslim African countries, in the name of Islam. No one needs to be a genius to see that slavery is a painful thing to an African. Even in modern Arabic, a commonly used term for a black person is 'Abd' which means slave!! How disgusting.

 

There is a clear agenda here - to portray Islam as being under attack when it remains the majority religion in N Africa even after generations of European colonialism. Some Muslim majority African nations are not as strict as Saudi Arabia, so maybe it just proves that some people do not see Islam as a perfect religion and would leave if given the opportunity. The truth is that Muslim 'dawagandists' (a missionary who spreads propaganda) engage in misleading people too, but in the end, a Muslim does not leave Islam very easily since some can face death, and also they can go to their local Imam or sheikh and ask for responses to what they hear from the missionary. If the Imam or sheikh can't respond with a convincing argument, tough.... You also cannot blame the issue squarely on missionaries when there are things like terrorism, fundamentalism, secterianism, widespread poverty while the gulf swims in cash, Arab racism, slavery, corruption and human rights abuses by Muslim governments and "believe without questioning" mentality which keeps people ignorant that also disillusion African Muslims.

Edited by Mrs. J

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Sort of like your wild conspiracies that no one follows or believes ? :sl:

 

google and you'll see there's lots of conspiracy theories even in the west, europe, superpower usa. they start the ball rolling. :sl:

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I didn't say I'd live to see anything. I just said that six million a year is a lot.

 

i didnt attribute it to you dude. its me who's saying lets say there's 900,000,000 african muslims and 6,000,000 leave annually. that'll gonna take 150 years (correct me). you're save dude. you'll gonna see no african muslim no more if you're gonna live that long. and from which year is that? :sl:

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Islam was not the main religion in Africa. Prior to the Islamic conquests in Africa, Christianity had been around since the first century, some of the communities had been evangalised by Jesus' own disciples Mark (founder of the church in Alexandria, Egypt). Traditional religions also existed.

 

I forgot to add Judaism also. Islam was not the predominant religion, and again, Muslims avoided giving dawah (evangelising in the Islamic sense) so that they could have a constant supply of African slaves. Male slaves were often castrated and marriage was not encouraged and there were high rates of death (up to 90%) and abuse in some cases, resulting in a need for fresh slaves. (Compare the 3-4 hundred thousand slaves over a 2/3 centuries in the USA who make up millions of people, and the millions traded by Muslims to the Muslim world for over a thousand years who make up a tiny minority.) Islam is not the predominant religion in Africa even now - 47% Christian African, 45% Muslim in a stat I recently saw. Perhaps if Muslims were not so interested in kidnapping and selling 'African Kaffirs' like animals and only abolished slavery due to Western pressure, it would have been the majority religion.... It's Muslims' own fault that Islam is not the majority religion.

 

Some Muslim majority African nations are not as strict as Saudi Arabia, so maybe it just proves that some people do not see Islam as a perfect religion and would leave if given the opportunity.

 

Intellectuals and scholars and middle-income people also leave Islam. It's not just "the poor, ignorant lay people who predator missionaries target in order to Christianize" - the argument of this person fails to recognise this, further showing us that it is propaganda. And again, nothing stops a Muslim (educated or not) from asking their Imam or sheikh for responses to the arguments made by missionaries.

Edited by Mrs. J

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Again, it's not just the 'illiterate poor ' who leave Islam as this Ahmad al Katani claims in his propaganda:

 

* Ubayd-Allah ibn Jahsh – Brother of Zainab bint Jash, the cousin and wife of Muhammad, and also one of the Sahaba (companions of the Prophet). He is the first known convert from Islam to Christianity[3]

* Chamillionaire (Hakeem Seriki) - Famous American rapper, singer, and CEO of Chamillitary Entertainment

* Mosab Hassan Yousef - Son of Hamas founder and leader

* Rajab Ali (now Nozad) - Renowned Iranian Muslim scholar

* Emir Kusturica - A filmmaker, actor and musician with a string of internationally acclaimed features

* Mehmet Ali Ağca - The assassin, who shot and wounded Pope John Paul II, renounced Islam in prison and announced his intention to convert to the Catholic faith upon release[4]

* Rev. Hamid Pourmand - Former Iranian army colonel

* Sake Dean Mahomed - According to Paul Vallely, in his propaganda piece about 20 Islamic Inventions, he was the Muslim who introduced shampoo to England. What Paul fails to include in his factually devoid article is that Mahomed was a convert to Christianity[5]

* Zachariah Anani - Lebanese Islamic Ex-Militant

* St. Alodia and St. Nunilo - Christian Saints and child martyrs, put to death by the Caliph of Cordoba for apostasy[6]

* Magdi Allam – Italy's most famous Islamic affairs journalist, baptized by the Pope

* St. Adolphus – Christian Saint and martyr, put to death by the Caliph of Cordoba for apostasy[7]

* Mohammed Altaf (now Simon Altaf) - Pakistani ex-Muslim from Abrahamic Faith Ministries

* Reverend Donald Fareed - Iranian Ex-Muslim

* Ibrahim Abdullah - Former PLO Terrorist

* Bilquis Sheikh - Former wife of a Minister of the Interior, in Pakistan

* Salah - Ex-Muslim Palestinian, now Gospel Musician

* Dr. Abraham Sarker - Former Muslim, Bangladesh - Now christian Evengelist, Founder of "Gospel for Muslims" Ministries.

* Pastor Hormoz Shariat Ph.D - Iranian Ex-Muslim, former Research Scientist in Artificial Intelligence, now Tele-Evangelist, Bringing the Gospel to Iran

* Bishop John Subhan - Former Sufi Muslim

* Abdul Saleeb - Former Sufi Muslim from Middle East, now Christian Missionary to Muslims

* Kurdish apostate - Leader, writer, and historian finds God through Bible translation

* Gulshan Esther - Pakistan Ex-Muslim, Smitten with typhoid - then crippled by polio as a teenager , Healed by Lord Jesus Miraculously, Became Christian Preacher

* Pastor Matthew Ashimolowo - Former Muslim, now leads the largest and fastest growing church in England

* Abdullahi Jibril - Former Muslim extremist now faces persecution in Nigeria

* Dr. Nasir K. Siddiki - successful Muslim businessman, now Christian preacher

* Rev. Majed El Shafie

* Rev KK Alavi - Son of a staunch Islamic cleric, the preacher Muslim extremists love to hate, one of the bravest Christians in India

* Walid Shoebat - A Former PLO Islamic Terrorist

* Reverend Khalid Soomro - Pakistani ex-Muslim

* Reza F.Safa - Iranian Ex-Muslim, Now Christian Evangelist

* Rev. Dr. Patrick Sookhdeo - Pakistani, International Director of UK-based Barnabas Fund

* Taysir Abu Saada "Tass" - Islamic Fatah fighter trained to kill Jews

* Guryel Ali - Gospel Musician

* WL Cati - Ex Muslim, now Evangelist

* Nonie Darwish - Freelance writer and public speaker

* Dr. Anis Shorrosh - Famous Christian debator

* Hussain Andaryas - Afghani Christian activist

* Prince Alexander Bekovich-Cherkassky - Russian officer of Circassian origin who led the first Russian military expedition into Central Asia

* Akbar Gbaja-Biamila - American football player

* Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila - American football player

* Tunch Ilkin - Former American football player

* Qadry Ismail - Former American football player

* Raghib Ismail - Former American football player

* Mathieu Kérékou - President of Benin (from Christianity to Islam, then back to Christianity)

* Carlos Menem - Former President of Argentina

* Sayyida Salme (Emily Ruete) - Princess of Zanzibar and Oman

* Ghorban Tourani - Former Iranian Sunni Muslim who became a Christian minister

* George Weah - Liberian soccer player (from Christianity to Islam, then back to Christianity)

* Rifqa Bary - 17 year old American teenager who drew international attention by her run away fearing death

* Daveed Gartenstein-Ross - American counter-terrorism expert and attorney. Former US head of the Al Haramain Islamic Foundation, a Wahhabi charity now considered a Specially Designated Global Terrorist Entity for its ties to Al-Qaeda

* Ruba Qewar - (from Christianity to Islam, then back to Christianity) Her conversion to Islam made her populour in Muslim TV talk shows and the Arabic media

* Dr. Nabeel Qureshi - Former Muslim and now co-director of Acts 17 Apologetics Ministries. He has given lectures at universities and seminaries throughout North America

 

Religious figures:

 

* Dr. Mustafa (now Dr. Mark Gabriel) - Former Muslim Imam, Ex-Professor in Al Azhar University, Cairo, Egypt (Most prestigious Islamic school of theology), and author of several well-known books discussing Islam

* Dr. Muhammed Rahoumy (now Dr. Samuel Paul) - former Dean in Al Azhar Islamic University in Cairo Egypt

* El-Faqi - Ex-Imam and lawyer

* Hajji Husman Mohamed - Former ethiopian Muslim Imam

* Hamran Ambrie - Indonesian Ex-Muslim cleric

* Mohammed Amin - Former Ethiopian Islamic Cleric

* El-Akkad - Former Muslim Preacher from Egypt

* Ak-Beket - Former Imam from Kazakhstan

* Mullah Assad Ullah - Former mullah from Afganistan

* Indonesian Imam who left Islam - Has led 3000 Muslims to Christ

* Fahmir - A Mullah started to preach the Gospel in Afghanistan

* Mischa - Mullah converts and becomes a church planter

* Sudanese Muslim Imam - Converts to Christianity

* Rahman - Convert from Kosovo leads Mullah to Christ

* Imam - Decides to follow Christ after seeing Jesus film

* Mosque Teacher - Leaves Islam and launches Christian Radio Ministry

* Dr. Imad ud-Din Lahiz (Rev. Mawlawi) - Was a prolific Islamic Writer, Preacher, Quranic Translator

* Khalif Majid Hassan - Former Islamic Preacher, and Minister in the Nation of Islam

* Jeremiah Fard Muhammad - Muslim minister, now Christian evangelist

* Saleh Hussaini - Former Nigerian Muslim Cleric

* Sam Solomon - Former Muslim scholar

* Yusuf Roni - Former Islamic Dawah Missionary, Islamic Youth Organization Chairman in Indonesia. Now a Christian Preacher

* Jamal Zarka - Former Muslim Imam, Now Evangelist

* Sheikh Mohamed Mansour - Prominent Egyptian Muslim Sheikh and Islamic Scholar

* Hamza - Former Islamic scholar

* Timothy Abraham - Former Muslim preacher and fundamentalist, now Christian Preacher

* Daniel Shayestah - Former Quranic teacher and scholar

* Ahmed Abdullahi - Former muslim cleric

* Emmanuel (formerly Mohammed) - Former Muslim scholar

* Zak Gariba - Former Muslim Imam

* Mr. Moro S. Franci - Former Imam

* Mario Joseph (Moulvi Sulaiman) - Former Muslim cleric from india

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_wikiislam(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Notable_Former_Muslims"]Source.[/url]

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I am sure there are some real converts, but taking a quick glace at your list, I have found some famous fakes.

 

Walid Shoebat - A Former PLO Islamic Terrorist

 

The guy left Palestine with his American mother at the age of 16. His claims of being a terrorist..well here is a link of Jerusalem post that showed his lies. (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetjpost(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Features/Article.aspx?id=96502"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetjpost(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Features/Article.aspx?id=96502[/url]

 

Shoebat's claim to have bombed Bank Leumi in Bethlehem is rejected by members of his family who still live in the area, and Bank Leumi says it has no record of such an attack ever taking place. ..LOL

 

after checking its files, the bank said it had no record of an attack on its Bethlehem branch anywhere in the relevant 1977-79 period. Shoebat told The Jerusalem Post that this could be because the bank building was robustly protected with steel and that the attack may have caused little damage. Asked whether word of the bombing made the news at the time, he said, "I don't know. I didn't read the papers because I was in hiding for the next three days."

 

And heres another story of him harassing a woman

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetdebbieschlussel(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/4245/enough-walid-shoebat-why-is-sean-hannitys-fake-terrorist-harassing-me/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetdebbieschlussel(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/4245/enough...t-harassing-me/[/url]

 

Also check out (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetyoutube(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/watch?v=xvF3jKNCDlI"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetyoutube(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/watch?v=xvF3jKNCDlI[/url]

 

 

Zachariah Anani - Lebanese Islamic Ex-Militant

 

This guy is Soebats mini-me made for canada!. This is what the canadian newspaper look into his fake past had to say.

 

Doubt cast on Anani's claims

 

Zachariah Anani, a self-proclaimed former terrorist who now warns against Islam's so-called teachings of terror against Canada and the West, is imagining his past exploits as a mass murderer, according to a top jihad expert.

"Anani, now an evangelical Christian, claims to be an expert on the topic because he killed 223 people in Allah's name, "two-thirds of them by daggers." He even claims to have killed a man for waking him up at 3 a.m. to pray....LOL

 

More on his fake story [at] (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcanada(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/windsorstar/story.html?id=4a479502-4490-408e-bdb5-f2638619a62c"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetcanada(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/windsorstar/story.ht...b5-f2638619a62c[/url].

 

Dr. Nabeel Qureshi

 

He was never a Muslim! its like showing converts from NOI..they are not considered muslims

 

 

I will look more into the list and as I find I will let you know, so you can take out the non trustable ones from it.

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mrhyder,

 

You are saying that shoebat and anani were not terrorists, but can you provide evidence proving that they were not Muslims?

 

My point is that the statements by Ahmad al Katani are filled with lies and misinformation and anti-Christian propaganda! Refer to post #42 and #45. He also claims that the only Muslims who leave Islam are poor and illiterate, when there are many scholars and other notable people who have left Islam as shown.

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Can someone answer me as to why muslim countries don't seem to be there to help in non muslim countries when there is a disaster? Christian organizations help anyone, anywhere. Yes, they often try to convert people, but I've not heard of instances where they've refused aid to anyone if they didn't convert. Western nations help out muslims during disasters. I have heard of a Masjid in Canada that joined in with christians and jews to help out during a time of need. I never saw that before or since. It always seems to be 'muslims for muslims and no one else' This is certainly the impression most people get. Someone prove me wrong. I'd like to think I'm wrong in this case.

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Can someone answer me as to why muslim countries don't seem to be there to help in non muslim countries when there is a disaster? Christian organizations help anyone, anywhere. Yes, they often try to convert people, but I've not heard of instances where they've refused aid to anyone if they didn't convert. Western nations help out muslims during disasters. I have heard of a Masjid in Canada that joined in with christians and jews to help out during a time of need. I never saw that before or since. It always seems to be 'muslims for muslims and no one else' This is certainly the impression most people get. Someone prove me wrong. I'd like to think I'm wrong in this case.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=735376&view=findpost&p=1235427"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&sh...t&p=1235427[/url]

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&showtopic=735376&view=findpost&p=1235429"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?s=&sh...t&p=1235429[/url]

 

There are many factors why Muslims are not the foremost in giving charity to non-Muslim countries. First and probably the most obvious one is that a lot of Muslim countries are themselves poor and in need of charity! Second Muslim countries are run by dictators, thieves and despots. Look at what is happening currently in the Arab world and you'll understand. Do we wonder why poor African, Asian and Latin American countries don't give that much charity? Countries that are run by dictators? Are countries Western countries like Greece, Slovenia, Slovakia, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Bulgaria, Romania (EU-members) at the forefront when it comes to charity? I don't think so.

 

The reason why Western countries give the most charity is simple - they are affluent. Why do you think the US gives the most? Because it has the biggest economy. Is is it the sole reason? No, but I wonder what would happen if Western countries had economies and regimes like in the Muslim countries.

 

You probably don't see a lot of Muslim charities in the West because Muslims are recent immigrants. You need a solid (financial) background before you can set up a major charity organization. Muslims just don't have the infrastructure in place at the moment. Christians obviously have.

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