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Rand00

Abrogation Vs. Allahs Perfection

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It is my understanding that earlier versus in the Quran are subject to abrogation by later versus in the Quran that discuss the same topic. My question is this, why couldn't Allah get it right the first time? The Quran is supposed to be a book for all time, not just the short period when Mohammad lived, why all of changes?

 

Rand00

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It is my understanding that earlier versus in the Quran are subject to abrogation by later versus in the Quran that discuss the same topic. My question is this, why couldn't Allah get it right the first time? The Quran is supposed to be a book for all time, not just the short period when Mohammad lived, why all of changes?

 

First of all, God not getting it right is absolutely out of the question. God is the Legislator so He can change the Law if He wants and He did. He can make a law more strict or more lax, or change it completly. That is His pejorative as the Lawmaker.

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The laws have changed not because Allah changed His mind, but because the Muslims to whom Islam was brought were given the laws at different stages so that they could ease into Islam. I always use the example of alcohol. Before Islam, alcohol was a part of their lives. After they had fully accepted Islam, they were no longer drinking it. But between these two points was a stage where they were limited in their consumption of alcohol, to prepare them for a time it would be completely prohibited.

 

Salam.

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Interesting. So early in the Quran (chronologically) many peaceful versus can be found, but late in the Quran the message becomes clearly violent towards non-muslims (verse of the sword.) Should I take it that the adjustment period of tolerance towards non-muslims is over and you are now going to "kill us wherever we are." I expect something good in response here because you can't have it both ways.

 

Rand00

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Interesting. So early in the Quran (chronologically) many peaceful versus can be found, but late in the Quran the message becomes clearly violent towards non-muslims (verse of the sword.) Should I take it that the adjustment period of tolerance towards non-muslims is over and you are now going to "kill us wherever we are." I expect something good in response here because you can't have it both ways.

 

Rand00

 

Care to show us the verses? And while your at it, if I were you, try actually reading the lines before and after the verse. Another tip, try not using any sites like burnthequran(contact admin if its a beneficial link), etc, etc.

 

Salam.

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Interesting. So early in the Quran (chronologically) many peaceful versus can be found, but late in the Quran the message becomes clearly violent towards non-muslims (verse of the sword.) Should I take it that the adjustment period of tolerance towards non-muslims is over and you are now going to "kill us wherever we are." I expect something good in response here because you can't have it both ways.

 

Warfare has rules. No we are not allowed to kill you wherever you are, literally speaking. The verse in the Qur'an was never understood in that way by the Prophet (pbuh) nor his Companions (ra), otherwise there would have been a huge massacre of a lot of populations. In warfare, you engage combatants not uncivilians. The verse means kill those who fight you wherever you find them, even in the Sacred Masjid's area the Kabah, not kill everybody who is not a Muslim whenever and wherever you see one.

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Warfare has rules. No we are not allowed to kill you wherever you are, literally speaking. The verse in the Qur'an was never understood in that way by the Prophet (pbuh) nor his Companions (ra), otherwise there would have been a huge massacre of a lot of populations. In warfare, you engage combatants not uncivilians. The verse means kill those who fight you wherever you find them, even in the Sacred Masjid's area the Kabah, not kill everybody who is not a Muslim whenever and wherever you see one.

 

Congratulations! Your interpretation is impossible to glean from the verse of the sword which can only mean that you have taken your first step away from Allah in order to not feel ridiculous for your belief in Islam. This will be the first of many compromises you make in order to not feel out of place in the modern world. You'll be an atheist in no time.

 

Rand00

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Congratulations! Your interpretation is impossible to glean from the verse of the sword which can only mean that you have taken your first step away from Allah in order to not feel ridiculous for your belief in Islam. This will be the first of many compromises you make in order to not feel out of place in the modern world.

 

Not really, just following the way of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions (ra).

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Congratulations! Your interpretation is impossible to glean from the verse of the sword which can only mean that you have taken your first step away from Allah in order to not feel ridiculous for your belief in Islam.

 

The reason it is "impossible to glean" anything is because you do not have the knowledge or resources to understand what the verse tells you. I would advise against interpreting the Qur'an based on your own understanding as a non-Muslim. Because you are unbelievably wrong that he is interpreting it in a modern way.

 

Salam.

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It is my understanding that earlier versus in the Quran are subject to abrogation by later versus in the Quran that discuss the same topic. My question is this, why couldn't Allah get it right the first time? The Quran is supposed to be a book for all time, not just the short period when Mohammad lived, why all of changes?

 

Rand00

 

Atually no verse of the quran is abrogated, not even the verses related to prophibition of alcohol. The prophibition of alcohol was step by step, because it was meaningless to prohibit completely something on a fine morning since it required time for people to overcome the addiction and hense gradual prohibition. A modern day Islamic state can follow the same procedure to ban smoking. Firstly, creating awareness among the people about its harm, and then prohibiting at public places, then at offices, and then restrict selling, and then complete banning. It is this method Allah is teaching us through gradual prohibition of alcophol, which is very much practical. It is a wrong understanding that the verse that prohibits alcohol abrogates the earlier verses.

Salaam

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Atually no verse of the quran is abrogated, not even the verses related to prophibition of alcohol.

 

What scholar do you get this from? I doubt any scholar said such a thing. P.S Fprce is in Islam.

 

The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an.) (2:185) Ibn `Abbas and others have said, "Allah sent the Qur'an down all at one time from the Preserved Tablet (Al-Lawh Al-Mahfuz) to the House of Might (Baytul-`Izzah), which is in the heaven of this world. Then it came down in parts to the Messenger of Allah based upon the incidents that occurred over a period of twenty-three years.'' Then Allah magnified the status of the Night of Al-Qadr, which He chose for the revelation of the Mighty Qur'an, by His saying,

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_tafsir(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/default.asp?sid=97&tid=58823"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_tafsir(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/default.asp?sid=97&tid=58823[/url]

 

 

Also, maybe this helps some too:

 

Nask of the verse and the law

 

In this first form, the law becomes void, abolished, and the new law is put in place. The old law or verse is removed by divine decree from the Qur'an itself. Or Allah.

 

Nask of the verse alone, not the law

 

"The Qur'an is the aunthentic Sunna, the authentic Sunna is the Qur'an. Because Allah tells us in teh Qur'an to take whatever the Messenger, sall-Allahu alayhi wa salam, tells us, and abstain from whatever he forbids us.

In this form, Allah had the verse removed from the Qur'an and its recitation stopped without replacing the law. The law remains in the Sunna.

 

Nask of the law alone, not the verse

 

The old verse is left in the Qur'an, but the new verse annuels or cancels the law of the old verse.

 

So, some verses were abrogated in recitation. Others in ruling, not in recitation.

 

Bilal Philips explains it short and best:

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_i256.11chan(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/albums/hh162/speed2kx/011-1.jpg"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_i256.11chan(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/albums/hh162/speed2kx/011-1.jpg[/url]

 

 

The best example to give in this regard is the gradual prohibition of intoxicants. As drinking was a firmly-rooted practice of Arabian social life, God wanted the new Muslim community to start thinking about this habit and its negative effects. Therefore, He first told them that intoxicants could not be classified among wholesome things, (16: 67) then He told them that drinking has some benefits and causes much harm, and the harm outweighs the benefits, (2: 219). He later ordered them not to offer their prayers when they were under the influence of intoxicating drinks, (4: 43) and He finally issued the order making all alcoholic drinks absolutely forbidden in all situations, (5: 90-91)

 

It is clear that there can be no confusion concerning any of these rulings. What is required is to observe the final edict, because it incorporates all the previous ones. This type of abrogation is similar to amendments of rules in any establishment. The new rule will always refer to the previous one, unless the connection is stark clear. There are a number of such amendments of rules that took place during the Prophet's lifetime and these are well documented and known.

 

Another type makes the change total and all at once. There are very few examples of these. In fact some scholars argue that no abrogation of this nature ever took place. The only example I can cite is the change of the direction of prayer. In the early period of Islam, Muslims faced Jerusalem when they prayed. Around 17 months after they had settled in Madinah, they were ordered to change direction and face the Kaaba in Makkah. The order is discussed in detail in verses 143-150 of Surah 2. There can be no confusion on this matter. The same applies to all such changes. The final rule always makes things absolutely clear.

 

Congratulations! Your interpretation is impossible to glean from the verse of the sword which can only mean that you have taken your first step away from Allah in order to not feel ridiculous for your belief in Islam.
This is a ridiculous attack I hear from non-Muslims all the time, interpretation. You are not able to at attack Islam by this.

 

Muhammad :sl: put the Qur'an in practice as it was revealed and that was put in hadeeths. We know which hadeeths are authentic though the chain and guess how many practices we practice? Many to the point that it really overwhelms me every day seaching how I need to eat, etc......

 

After the Prophet :sl: his companions put in practice what he taught and they were scholars. These are the scholars our scholars of today are obligated to follow by the Prophet :no: Ther eis our interpretation. There is where it comes from. There is no room for the scholars of today to do anything but teach what the scholars of past had concluded.

 

 

Our scholars of today follow the interpretation, literal clear interpreation, from the 3 best generations of scholars who were taught by prophet Muhammad :j: We have everything from them. They are named Salaf [ancestors].

 

In Summary:

 

They agreed on the interpretation of the basics. They agreed on the interpretation of Islamic jurisprudence by 70% and the 30% is a flexibility, but we're talking about something it is permissible to differ in [jurisprudence], in basics, they all agreed on that, same. There. Also, you can attack other religions with interpretation issues, our religion is clear and interpreted clearly, not only interpreted, but put in practice that what was interpreted :D

Edited by Orthodox

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Atually no verse of the quran is abrogated, not even the verses related to prophibition of alcohol.

 

:sl:

 

Whatever a verse do Nansakh (We abrogate) or Nunsiha (cause to be forgotten), We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is Able to do all things? [2:106]

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:sl:

 

Whatever a verse do Nansakh (We abrogate) or Nunsiha (cause to be forgotten), We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is Able to do all things? [2:106]

 

SA,

 

It can easily be verified that the word ‘Ayah’ in this particular verse could not mean a verse in the Quran.

 

1. The words "cause to be forgotten" could not be applicable if the word ‘Ayah’ in this verse meant a verse in the Quran. How can a verse in the Quran become forgotten? For even if the verse was invalidated by another it will still be part of the Quran (as it is said) and thus could never be forgotten.

 

2. The words "We replace it with its equal" would be meaningless if the word ‘Ayah’ in this verse meant a Quranic verse, simply because it would make no sense for Allah to invalidate one verse then replace it with one that is identical to it!

 

3. If the word ‘Ayah’ in the verse meant a miracle or a sign, then all the words of the verse would make perfect sense. The words "cause to be forgotten"can apply to all three meanings and that is what actually happens with the passing of time. The miracles of Moses and Jesus have long been forgotten. We only believe in them because they are mentioned in the Quran. Allah indeed replaces one miracle with its equal or with one that is greater than it. Consider the following verse :

 

"And We have sent Moses with Our Ayah’s (miracles or signs) to Pharaoh and his elders proclaiming : ‘I am a messenger from the Lord of the universe’. When he brought them our Ayah’s they laughed at him. Every Ayah We showed them was greater than the one that preceded it." 43:46-48

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SA,

 

It can easily be verified that the word ‘Ayah’ in this particular verse could not mean a verse in the Quran.

 

:sl:

 

Which scholars do you follow? We could postulate about the definitions of verses and words, but it hardly means anything if all we do is rely on our own limited, layman understanding. Secondly, the verse does not only say "cause to be forgotten". It also says "abrogate". A miracle cannot be abrogated. Also, this verse should rest this case:

 

And when We change a verse in place of another - and Allah knows best what He reveals - they (the disbelievers) say: "You are but a forger.'' Rather, most of them know not. [16:101]

 

1) It says one Ayah in place of another, and that Allah knows best what He reveals. This is clearly speaking of revelation, not of signs or miracles.

2) Note the words of the disbelievers, "You are but a forger". Who is this "you" they are addressing, who has forged? Let's look to the following verse:

 

Say; "Ruh-ul-Qudus has brought it (the Qur'an) down from your Lord with truth.'' for the conviction of those who believe, and as a guide and good news for the Muslims. [16:102]

 

1) This clearly proves that the subject of discussion is the Qur'an itself, not miracles or signs in general. So the ayat that are replaced in the previous verse refer to those within the Qur'an.

2) The person who was called a forger in the previous verse is the prophet, based on verse 102. He was told to tell the disbelievers that Ruh-ul-Qudus (Angel Jibreel) was the one who brought the Qur'an down, and that the prophet himself is not guilty of changing anything.

 

Refer to tafsir Ibn Kathir.

 

How can a verse in the Quran become forgotten? For even if the verse was invalidated by another it will still be part of the Quran (as it is said) and thus could never be forgotten

 

There are cases in the aHadith where a verse was removed entirely.

 

Salam.

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And when We change a verse in place of another - and Allah knows best what He reveals - they (the disbelievers) say: "You are but a forger.'' Rather, most of them know not. [16:101]

 

WS,

 

This verse 16:101 does not speak about the substitution of one verse in the Quran with another. The substitution spoken of here is concerned with one of two things:

 

a- The substitution of one Scripture in place of another.

 

This first meaning is given evidence to in the following verse: "Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them." 5:48. Here, the words "superseding them" confirm that the previous scripture were substituted with the Quran.

 

b- The substitution of one law within one Scripture with another in a subsequent Scripture

 

This second meaning is also given evidence to in the Quran where various issues that were prohibited to the previous people of the book were made lawful in the Quran. As an example, we are told in 2:187 that sexual intercourse between married couples during the nights of the fasting month was made lawful, while it was prohibited previously. We are also told in 6:146 that God prohibited for the Jews all animals with undivided hoofs; and of the cattle and sheep the fat was prohibited. These were made lawful in the Quran.

 

This verse 16:101 does not speak about the substitution of one verse in the Quran with another. The evidence to that is given within the same verse (16:101): The key to the meaning of the verse lies in the words: "........they say, "You are but a forger.'' . Here we must stop and ask, who is likely to tell the messenger "You are but a forger.''? and why? For sure it cannot be his followers, his followers are not likely to tell him "You are but a forger.''....it has to be those who do not believe in him, which focuses on the followers of previous scripture who feared that their scripture was in danger of being "substituted" with the Quran... The Jews and Christians do not care if one verse in the Quran is substituted for another, after all they do not believe in the whole book... they will not complain that one verse in the Quran is being substituted with another! However, if they fear that their Scripture is being substituted by the Quran, they will immediately accuse the messenger that the Scripture he brings (Quran) is not from God but "You are but a forger''.

 

These glorious words "You are but a forger'' indeed stand as true indicator from God Almighty that the substitution spoken of in this verse is not related to one within the Quran, but indeed a substitution between one scripture and another.

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WS,

 

This verse 16:101 does not speak about the substitution of one verse in the Quran with another. The substitution spoken of here is concerned with one of two things:

 

:sl:

 

Which tafsir are you using? How did you decide that "forgotten verses" in one verse refers to miracles/signs that were lost, that "changing verses" means "changing scripture" and that "they" refers to Jews and Christians, the minority, rather than idolators, the majority? Also, what about the aHadith that have dealt with abrogation of Qur'an verses?

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:sl:

 

Which tafsir are you using? How did you decide that "forgotten verses" in one verse refers to miracles/signs that were lost, that "changing verses" means "changing scripture" and that "they" refers to Jews and Christians, the minority, rather than idolators, the majority? Also, what about the aHadith that have dealt with abrogation of Qur'an verses?

 

WS,

 

Instead of countering with valid supporting points you have come up with different questions. Anyhow I hope you will agree with me when I say the term "forgotten" in the verse can not refer to verses of the Quran since the abrogated verses are also considered to be part of the quran

 

Well, I had explained "miracles" in the first verse with the support of other verses, but it could be perfectly suitable that that verse also refers to substitution one scripture with another scripture or substitution of one verse in one scripture with another verse in another scripture, BUT CERTAINLY NOT ONE QURANIC VERSE WITH ANOTHER QURANIC VERSE.

 

SA

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WS,

 

Instead of countering with valid supporting points you have come up with different questions.

 

:sl:

 

It's a very dangerous thing for two Muslims to get into a battle of "Whose Opinion is Right about the Qur'an/Hadiths" if neither is a scholar. It would be a mockery of Allah's book and the teachings of the prophet.

 

It does not matter how great your argument is, it is conjecture. The non-Muslims respect their doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc, to know their professions well enough that the average Joe doesn't think he knows better. So how can you undermine the scholars of knowledge so much to the extent that you believe your opinion is superior to theirs? When they have spent their entire lives studying the language, the culture, the history, the religious texts, and the writings of the other scholars?

 

I wish you the best in joining their ranks. But until then, I would suggest you hold off on making fatwas and tafsirs.

 

1) The scholarly Ijma (consensus) is that verses have been abrogated.

2) There are Hadiths that speak of abrogated verses.

3) There are historical, recorded incidents where abrogation occured.

4) The Qur'an itself speaks of abrogation. This is supported by the three facts above, despite what you have chosen to say about the issue.

 

As for the "forgotten" thing:

 

Allah said next,

 

[Ãóæú äõäÓöåóÇ]

 

(or Nunsiha (cause it to be forgotten)). `Ali bin Abi Talhah said that Ibn `Abbas said that,

 

[ãóÇ äóäÓóÎú ãöäú ÃóÇíóÉò Ãóæú äõäÓöåóÇ]

 

(Whatever a verse (revelation) do Nansakh or Nunsiha) means, "Whatever Ayah We repeal or uphold without change.'' Also, Mujahid said that the companions of Ibn Mas`ud (who read this word Nansa'ha) said that it means, "We uphold its wording and change its ruling.'' Further, `Ubayd bin `Umayr, Mujahid and `Ata' said, `Nansa'ha' means, "We delay it (i.e., do not abrogate it).'' Further, `Atiyyah Al-`Awfi said that the Ayah means, "We delay repealing it.'' This is the same Tafsir provided by As-Suddi and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas. `

 

There you have it. Not just the interpretation of the scholars, but also those of the companions of the prophet.

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(Whatever a verse (revelation) do Nansakh or Nunsiha) means, "Whatever Ayah We repeal or uphold without change.'' Also, Mujahid said that the companions of Ibn Mas`ud (who read this word Nansa'ha) said that it means, "We uphold its wording and change its ruling.'' Further, `Ubayd bin `Umayr, Mujahid and `Ata' said, `Nansa'ha' means, "We delay it (i.e., do not abrogate it).'' Further, `Atiyyah Al-`Awfi said that the Ayah means, "We delay repealing it.'' This is the same Tafsir provided by As-Suddi and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas.

 

SA,

 

I have checked more than 10 different translations and everyone has translated as "forgotten", except Muhammed Asad who translated it as "consign to oblivion";

 

Any message which We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one. Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything? (106)

 

Well,

 

1. If "Whatever a verse (revelation) do Nansakh or Nunsiha) means, "Whatever Ayah We repeal or uphold without change" what does it mean "We replace with a better or a similar one"? Again, it would make no sense for Allah to invalidate one verse then replace it with another verse that is identical to it! (or uphold without change)

 

2. "Ibn Mas`ud (who read this word Nansa'ha) said that it means, "We uphold its wording and change its ruling.". I can not find any clarity in this statement. Are you indirectly saying all translators have gone wrong in their translations? please explain

 

3. "Ubayd bin `Umayr, Mujahid and `Ata' said, `Nansa'ha' means, "We delay it (i.e., do not abrogate it)" No clarity and please explain (do not abrogate it????)

 

4. Further, `Atiyyah Al-`Awfi said that the Ayah means, "We delay repealing it.'' (Repealing what? Please explain)

 

WS

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SA,

 

I have checked more than 10 different translations and everyone has translated as "forgotten", except Muhammed Asad who translated it as "consign to oblivion";

 

:sl:

 

English to Arabic translations do not suffice to understand the contextual and grammatical language of the Qur'an. Secondly, these companions' interpretations are not translations to English words (since they themselves did not speak English 1400 years ago), but explanations of the Arabic words themselves.

 

1. If "Whatever a verse (revelation) do Nansakh or Nunsiha) means, "Whatever Ayah We repeal or uphold without change" what does it mean "We replace with a better or a similar one"? Again, it would make no sense for Allah to invalidate one verse then replace it with another verse that is identical to it! (or uphold without change)

 

2. "Ibn Mas`ud (who read this word Nansa'ha) said that it means, "We uphold its wording and change its ruling.". I can not find any clarity in this statement. Are you indirectly saying all translators have gone wrong in their translations? please explain

 

3. "Ubayd bin `Umayr, Mujahid and `Ata' said, `Nansa'ha' means, "We delay it (i.e., do not abrogate it)" No clarity and please explain (do not abrogate it????)

 

4. Further, `Atiyyah Al-`Awfi said that the Ayah means, "We delay repealing it.'' (Repealing what? Please explain)

 

1) Ibn Abbas did not, in any way, say that a verse that is unchanged will be replaced by one identical to it, or even similar to it. There is also the case of a verse being replaced by something better, even if the verse itself remains unchanged (i.e. in the case of alcohol).

2) Translators try to translate things directly or in the easiest way. The language of the Qur'an cannot be translated always, since there are words that mean more than one thing.

3 and 4) Delay abrogating the verse.

 

That's as much as I can/will break it down for you, because frankly, not only am I not a scholar myself, but I also don't want to get into a dragged out, sidetracked argument about a single word and I would hope that you don't either. If you are still confused but have great interest in the subject, then I suggest you find yourself some scholarly books/websites and study more indepthly. Find out the etymology of Nunsiha, the cultural usage of it, and the religious meaning. Figure out why those companions interpreted it as they did.

 

If not, then at least keep in mind that the companions knew better than you do (or any of us), even if they seem to make no sense to you.

 

But the bigger picture is that Nansakh does mean abrogate, and it has happened historically. In fact, the commentators of the Qur'an have stated that the verse was revealed because the idolators were mocking the prophet for bringing a ruling one day, and then changing it a while later.

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It is my understanding that earlier versus in the Quran are subject to abrogation by later versus in the Quran that discuss the same topic. My question is this, why couldn't Allah get it right the first time? The Quran is supposed to be a book for all time, not just the short period when Mohammad lived, why all of changes?

 

Rand00

 

 

Allah has created this univers, all the laws that govern this universe, and all that kinda stuff.

 

for example, if i jump off a tall building, i will be very hurt at the least. this is because Allah has decreed that the materials used in concrete is harder then flash and bone. likewise Allah created gravity, which will bring me down at a constant rate, and also decreed that my weight and velocity will equal the amount of joules i generate when i hit the pavement.

 

so what dose this have to do with abrogations? everything, actually.

 

you see, in the time when the muslims were in mekkah, the muslims simple had no fighting ability. they had no base of operations. and also, open war at that time would have turned people away from the message of Islam. so at the time, Allah told the believers to be patient because he has a plan, and victory is with those who believe.

 

later on in medinah the muslims had the power to defend themself, so then they were then commanded to fight.

 

wouldent it be kind of stupid for god to say to the 10 muslims that existed at first "go and fight."that would defeat the whole purpose of the message firstly, and secondly it would have chased people away from accepting Islam.

 

and this is because even though Allah controls everything, he has given us free will, and made us as as what we are. if sombody wants to kill you, then you wont like that person very much. everybody knows that.

 

when you look at the abrogations done, its like that.

 

Allah also explains it directly in the quran. he wanted to strengthen the hearts of the believers, so slow changes were made. too fast of a change, and the believers would have got weak hearted.

 

Islam is not a stupid religion, because Allah is ot stupid. muslims have alot of laws to abide by, but if a circumstance arises where its necessary to bend the rules abit, then your allowed, so long as its 100% necessary.

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Whatever a verse do Nansakh (We abrogate) or Nunsiha (cause to be forgotten), We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is Able to do all things? [2:106]

 

May I ask why the better verse was not revealed from the start? Why would it be intentionally be caused for a verse to be forgetten? I'm confused.

 

Thank you.

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It is my understanding that earlier versus in the Quran are subject to abrogation by later versus in the Quran that discuss the same topic. My question is this, why couldn't Allah get it right the first time? The Quran is supposed to be a book for all time, not just the short period when Mohammad lived, why all of changes?

 

Rand00

 

 

No this is incorrect, Allah does not abrogate any verses in the Quran if we understand the meaning of abrogation then we will all agree. Secondly in surah 2 ayat 105 Allah is first addressing the disbelievers from the book “the bible†Not the Quran. And the what He is saying is that The Quran nullifies the mistakes made by men in the Bible. Meaning that it put and end to the misconception about God about Jesus it put that to an end. The Quran abrogates the scripture before which is the Bible and a lot of the old scripture has been forgotten and changed and taken out of the original old test and new test.

 

And Allah says of the Quran that this is the book without doubt. So if Allah says it is a book without doubt then there is no way that the Quran would abrogate itself or that Allah would abrogate the verses in the Quran for another verse. This is not what the Verse is saying at all. It is referring to the puzzling understanding in the scripture of old. And the Quran come to abrogate ,put an end to, nullify, substitute, abolish by formal means, annul by authoritative act, all misconceptions about Allah and Jesus .

 

And further there is only 4 places in the Quran where the word is used and if we see how the word is used in the Quran then we can get an understanding of what Allah means when he says nasakha….look at surah 22 verse 52…surah 7 verse 154 and verse 45 verse 29.. after reading this the reader should be clear on the meaning of Nasakha, also the root for the word is nun siin kha for those who use dictionary.

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[at] Rand;

 

When a child is born, he first gets to his nursery then school then high school then college then university. He cant take an admission directly into the university.

 

An example might help u out brother. The time when Qur'an was revealed, ppl used to take alot of alcohol. Even in these current times we know that if an addict stop taking alcohol at once, he may suffer from very bad consequences and can also harm other ppl. That's why firstly it was just said that alcohol is not a good thing, then it was said do not take it during prayers and then it was finally declared prohibited. Same goes with others abrogated verses.

 

How do verify that which of the verse of Qur'an came before and which one later? Do u follow the current sequence ? It is not in the sequence of revelation, it is just a compilation. And I'd like to ask u which verse is violent in Qur'an? Did u check at what time that verse was revealed? its context?

 

Miss Jupiter: The same answer goes to u that if u ask some1 do give up a lifetime habit at once that would be very difficult, thats why it was asked slowly slowly to make it easier for the believers for indeed the Lord is the Most Gracious on His ppl.

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No this is incorrect, Allah does not abrogate any verses in the Quran if we understand the meaning of abrogation then we will all agree. Secondly in surah 2 ayat 105 Allah is first addressing the disbelievers from the book “the bible†Not the Quran. And the what He is saying is that The Quran nullifies the mistakes made by men in the Bible.

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And Allah says of the Quran that this is the book without doubt. So if Allah says it is a book without doubt then there is no way that the Quran would abrogate itself or that Allah would abrogate the verses in the Quran for another verse.

 

This is actually incorrect according to Sahih Bukhari, see this post and following:

 

Yet there are other instances where verses have been left out:

What do Muslims make of this – some verses being kept, others left out?

 

Richard

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