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IAmZamzam

Something That's Bothered Me Since Even Before Reversion

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I've already taken this to someone I already know and trust but he takes a while to respond to things and it couldn't hurt to get a second opinion.

 

Here is an issue I have *never* been able to resolve for myself. It's been bothering me since I was a Christian, where it was even more of an issue, and it still bugs me now that I'm Muslim. We're all sinners, right? The Koran says (16:61) is everyone is a sinner worthy of death. Even if you consider the prophets to be, as many have said, sinless (which raises more questions than it would answer, particularly with the blessed Adam) and therefore the statistical clustering or however one would put it of when virtue all did happen to have an unbroken record, they're all dead and have been for centuries, so why aren't there any more sinless people now when we've always had the same amount of free choice in every era?

 

I know that it's *because* of our own free choices that we're all sinners, but if it's free then how can it be that no one--at the very least in the past millennium and a half or so--has just so happened to have always made the right choices? Either moral perfection is impossible or it isn't. If it is impossible then that excuses us from the *burden* of perfection, as God does not hold us accountable for doing what we can't do (Koran 2:286 et al), whereas if it's *not* impossible then why does it never happen? Is it a puzzling matter of low but existent odds (which again raises futher questions)? That hadith I always quote to the Bible bangers says that even Muhammad (P) needed to be wrapped in mercy as his deeds were insufficient for salvation, but I think that's more about heaven being too much for anyone to be capable of deserving with one lifetime of deeds than hell being something everyone *does* deserve. The only thing I can think to do to explain the coincidence of universal sin is be more literal and take 16:61 as referring to the people alive at the time when it was revealed and not all people at all times. It *is* written in the present tense, at least in the English versions I see. But I don't know if this interpretation could be valid.

 

Help!

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PropellerAds

Assalam alaikum,

Every one is a sinner: According to the following hadith of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), all human beings commit sins, but the real believers repent for their sins and seek forgiveness from the Merciful Lord:

 

"Anas reported God's messenger as saying, "All the sons of Adam are sinners, but the best of sinners are those who are given to repentance."

 

 

On the authority of Abu Dharr al-Ghifari (may Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) is that among the sayings he relates from his Lord (may He be glorified) is that He said:

 

"'O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you. O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and you will not attain benefiting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more than a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him who finds good praise Allah and let him who finds other than that blame no one but himself.'"

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I would mention something:

 

"By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them."(Muslim, vol. 4, Book 37, Hadith No. 6622 & 6621).

 

Abu Hurayra (may Allah be pleased with him) told that: “We said to our Prophet:

"O Messenger of Allah! When we see you, our hearts soften; we become to be like dwellers of hereafter. But when we leave you, world seems pleasant and desireful to us. We get closer to women and children."

He (pbuh) replied: "If you could stay in the same situation as you were with me, angels would greet you and come to your houses to visit. If you were not to commit sin, Allah (swt) would create a people who would commit sin in order to forgive them."(Imam Ahmad, Tirmidhi)

 

"A believer considers his sin as a mountain and feels frightened about it, but a hypocrite considers it as a fly that has perched on his nose and will fly away immediately." (Hadith, Bukhari)

 

"Say: "O 'Ibâdî (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allâh, verily Allâh forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Qur'an, 39:53)

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:sl:

 

This is the verse:

 

And if Allah were to punish mankind for their wrongdoing, He would not leave on it (the earth) a single moving creature, but He defers them to an appointed term; and when their term comes, they can neither delay nor advance it an hour (or a moment). [16:61]

 

This means that if Allah chose to punish the wrongdoers, then He would not spare anyone and anything. He would wipe us all off the face of the planet.

 

The Messengers of Allah were not infallible. They were capable of sinning. They did, however, possess a valuable trait: They were quick to repent and atone for their sins. Even Adam repented for eating from the tree and he was forgiven. Firstly, we don't know if there ever existed a man utterly capable of perfection, from the moment of birth till death. But even if there weren't any, this wouldn't negate free will. Having the capacity for something, and actually being able to achieve it, are two different things.

 

For example, hypothetically, a man could hit a strike every single time he bowls during an entire game. He has the ability, meaning physically he is capable and there is nothing holding him back from this achievement. But sooner or later, he's bound to miscalculate. He'll aim a little too far left or too far right. Now imagine expecting this man not only to bowl a perfect game in one night, but for 50-80 years.

 

Free will means the ability to choose between wrong and right. Man possesses this trait and what he is able to do with it is a result of his own choices.

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Why is Allah intent on allowing the existence only of people with something to forgive? Is it because He's so fond of that particular virtue?

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Why is Allah intent on allowing the existence only of people with something to forgive? Is it because He's so fond of that particular virtue?

 

:sl:

 

It's more that He wanted a creation that is capable of making choices, and capable of choosing to worship Allah out of their own volition. Allah places greater emphasis on the forgiveness because people are bound to commit sins and what's important is realizing one's mistakes.

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Why is it better to realize a mistake than not to have made it in the first place?

 

Is it part of the general scheme of advancement and evolving and gradual refinement that He seems proud of in His art--like the way he gradually perfected His scriptures, He likes to gradually improve us? Or is it something else?

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Why is it better to realize a mistake than not to have made it in the first place?

 

Is it part of the general scheme of advancement and evolving and gradual refinement that He seems proud of in His art--like the way he gradually perfected His scriptures, He likes to gradually improve us? Or is it something else?

 

:sl:

 

The only beings who do not make error in the first place are those without free will, those who are already perfected and "programmed" to worship Allah, regardless of choice. In other words, they feel no desire to do otherwise. They only do as Allah created them to do.

 

And then there is us, fallible human beings who WILL fall into error. It's not perfection that Allah wants from us, since He could have created us perfect, but He wants us to choose Him out of our own desire and eagerness, especially in the face of Shaytan's influence. Think of it this way. Which is sweeter, an act done out of the goodness of one's heart, or an act that one is obligated to do? To Allah, what is more important to Him (at least, in our case) is a creation capable of fighting their own Nafs and sincerely desiring his forgiveness for their wrongdoings, than one who never had the capacity for doing wrong to begin with.

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:sl:

 

The only beings who do not make error in the first place are those without free will, those who are already perfected and "programmed" to worship Allah, regardless of choice. In other words, they feel no desire to do otherwise. They only do as Allah created them to do.

 

 

Who are these beings? Are they Saints. Do you think we are moving toward perfection?

 

ron

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Who are these beings? Are they Saints. Do you think we are moving toward perfection?

 

ron

 

Angels were created solely to worship Allah and follow His commands. They do nothing else; it is within their nature to obey Allah. I used to say they have no free will but I've come to realize I cannot confirm or deny this, so I'll just leave it at this verse:

 

"They [Angels] celebrate His praises night and day, nor do they ever slacken." [21:20]

 

As for moving toward perfection, in the Islamic point of view, man is no more perfect today than he was a thousand years ago. If anything, the Muslims were in a better state during the first 300 years (we call this group of Muslims the Salaf, meaning early predecessors). They were the best of us in their knowledge and deeds, and we strive to follow in their paths.

 

Salam.

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