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Ron Shirt

Famine In Somalia?

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This follows on from the "Blessings Of Allah(swt) Are Descending On Somalia" thread.

 

It seems like those Al-Shabaab clowns are not helping the situation after all.

 

Very sad, but hey, apparently Allah is just testing or punishing them. I guess we will never know which.

 

Though, I can't see how an omnipotent, just and merciful god can cause innocent children and babies to suffer so terribly. How can punishing of babies ever be justified? What can they have done wrong? I can only presume they are being tested, but then why test a baby?

 

None of it makes any sense to me. I guess they will be rewarded in heaven if they are free of sin....

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This follows on from the "Blessings Of Allah(swt) Are Descending On Somalia" thread.

 

It seems like those Al-Shabaab clowns are not helping the situation after all.

 

Very sad, but hey, apparently Allah is just testing or punishing them. I guess we will never know which.

 

Though, I can't see how an omnipotent, just and merciful god can cause innocent children and babies to suffer so terribly. How can punishing of babies ever be justified? What can they have done wrong? I can only presume they are being tested, but then why test a baby?

 

None of it makes any sense to me. I guess they will be rewarded in heaven if they are free of sin....

 

 

Maybe it's just 'Darwinism' gone wrong. The survival of the fittest and all that. That's the jungle law we're all born out of isn't it?

 

ron

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Though, I can't see how an omnipotent, just and merciful god can cause innocent children and babies to suffer so terribly. How can punishing of babies ever be justified? What can they have done wrong? I can only presume they are being tested, but then why test a baby?

 

It's neither a punishment nor a test for the child. Babies fall ill or die or suffer hardships because it is a natural part of life. It happens to all of us; it would be strange if young ones are magically immune to death/disease/famine until they reach a certain age.

 

Their suffering, as awful as you might think it is, is nothing in comparison to an eternity in Paradise. They will barely remember it. But for now, it is an opportunity and a test for the rest of us; who will act and who will do nothing?

 

Salam.

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Great answer (as always :sl: ). One question though; if that is the case then why do Muslims get so upset when children (or other innocents) are killed at the hand of people (war, murder, genocide etc.)?

 

One of the side effects of being an atheist is that I believe that everyone is unique, priceless and deserving of fulfilling, long life as free as possible from suffering. And I do mean everyone regardless of sex, race, creed or religious beliefs.

 

Salam.

 

It's neither a punishment nor a test for the child. Babies fall ill or die or suffer hardships because it is a natural part of life. It happens to all of us; it would be strange if young ones are magically immune to death/disease/famine until they reach a certain age.

 

Their suffering, as awful as you might think it is, is nothing in comparison to an eternity in Paradise. They will barely remember it. But for now, it is an opportunity and a test for the rest of us; who will act and who will do nothing?

 

Salam.

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Great answer (as always :sl: ). One question though; if that is the case then why do Muslims get so upset when children (or other innocents) are killed at the hand of people (war, murder, genocide etc.)?

 

I'll respond one last time here and will make a new topic after this (or you could, it really doesn't matter). I don't think it is fair to the topic starter otherwise, plus this is in the political section.

 

If a person dies, as Muslims we believe that it was their time to die, meaning that it had been written a long long time ago (50,000 years before creation) that John would die at the age of 55 from colon cancer. Or Martha would die at 34 of a gunshot wound.

 

There is a verse in the Qur'an that says: “To Allah we belong and to Him we shall return.†[2:156]

 

Returning to Allah refers to death; this world is a temporary abode before we pass on to our permanent homes. Prophet Muhammad said: I have nothing to do with this world. The parable of me and this world is like a rider who rests in the shade of a tree, then he passes on and leaves it [At-Tirmidhi]

 

Allah also says: He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed... [67:2]

 

Death is not a punishment or a reward. It is the end of the "testing" in this world. You might say, but why would Allah create children and take their lives before they are old enough to be tested? Because that serves as a test for others, not for the children. It serves as a test for the parents, for the communities, etc. And if the child grows up on hardship and lives, it might be that this serves as a blessing; riches and good health can make someone feel too secure in this life and too reluctant to consider the prospect of leaving it behind. A lot of people say that it is unfair that some are born wealthy while others are born into poverty, and that this means the playing field isn't leveled. But what they don't consider is that wealth is a burden. We believe that on the Day of Judgment, a man will be questioned profusely on all of the wealth he possessed and earned. And it will bring a great deal of suffering for him, far more than the suffering of the poor in this life. Because people are tested in this world in different ways; some are tested with the good, and others with the bad.

 

The insignificance of this life is stressed in the Qur'an. The disbeliever, on the Day of Judgment, will be asked by Allah in Surah Al-Mu'minun (The Believers)

 

112. He will say: "What number of years did you stay on earth?''

113. They will say: "We stayed a day or part of a day. Ask of those who keep account."

114. He will say: "You stayed not but a little, if you had only known!''

 

And in another verse: “The day they see it, (it will be) as if they had not tarried (in this world) except an afternoon or a morning.†[80:46]

 

The life of this world will be so insignificant in the hereafter that the people, the ones who wasted away their lives, will consider it so insignificant and distant that they will swear they were only alive for an hour or a part of the day. This might seem unusual, that a person would find 50-80 years of life to be a mere hour but on the grand scale of things, when an eternity is facing you, looking back, there is nothing. No amount of suffering or enjoyment in this life will be worth anything. What is important in Islam is what one chooses to do with his time and how he deals with loss and hardships.

 

"Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere." [2:155]

 

And for those who persevere is the reward of Paradise:

 

"And We shall remove from their hearts any lurking sense of injury;- beneath them will be rivers flowing;- and they shall say: "Praise be to Allah, who hath guided us to this (felicity): never could we have found guidance, had it not been for the guidance of Allah: indeed it was the truth, that the Messengers of our Lord brought unto us." And they shall hear the cry: "Behold the garden before you! Ye have been made its inheritors, for your deeds (of righteousness)." [7:43]

 

Now, as for why Muslims get upset; injustice is still injustice. While every human being will die, it is not justifiable for any individual to be the means through which this happens (unless it is sanctioned by law or warfare). It is still considered murder; even though Allah controls the souls and decides when each departs from this world, the murderer still had the intention of taking a life. In other words, he is not taking the life because it was its time to go and he is merely acting as a guide into the next life, but he intended to harm another individual out of malice and hatred. He is trangressing the limits set by Allah.

 

So when individuals commit injustice by killing others or oppressing them, it should upset us because these oppressors and murderers are transgressing against their fellow man. In conclusion.

 

1) Death is inevitable.

2) The above does not justify murder.

 

One of the side effects of being an atheist is that I believe that everyone is unique, priceless and deserving of fulfilling, long life as free as possible from suffering. And I do mean everyone regardless of sex, race, creed or religious beliefs.

 

I think that is a beautiful thing to believe (I really find it touching and would hope more people are of a similar mindset, life would be so much easier) and I would agree to some extent that everyone should have the right to live without suffering at the hands of others. But suffering serves a great purpose - without it, we would never appreciate peace, happiness and kindness. This is only one of those reasons, and I would be more than happy to discuss the issue with you if you'd like.

 

Thank you.

 

Salam.

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