Jump to content
Islamic Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Joker37

Why Are Most Muslims Countries Ruled By Totalitarian Regimes

Recommended Posts

Hi everybody,

 

Just something I picked up from the media and am curious about.

 

Is this the Islamic preference to democracy?

 

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PropellerAds

Sorry, what I meant to say, is how Muslim countries became like this. I know many people want democracy but there are some others who say that democracy is anti-Islamic so I'm confused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WW1: The Ottoman Empire(the Islamic state - even with all it's corruption in religion) was finished. The Caliphate (Islamic Empire) was abolished. Islamic lands were divided up into small nation states ruled by puppets of foreign powers.

 

The Islamic way to live is how the Prophet(saw) and the Sahaba(ra) lived. Which was under an Islamic State ruled by the laws of Islam with ALL Islamic lands united as one under one Caliph(leader).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WW1: The Ottoman Empire(the Islamic state - even with all it's corruption in religion) was finished. The Caliphate (Islamic Empire) was abolished. Islamic lands were divided up into small nation states ruled by puppets of foreign powers.

 

The Islamic way to live is how the Prophet(saw) and the Sahaba(ra) lived. Which was under an Islamic State ruled by the laws of Islam with ALL Islamic lands united as one under one Caliph(leader).

 

The description 'small nation states' hardly refers to Iran does it, or Saudi Arabi for that matter. Iraq?

 

Regards,

 

ron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Emphasis on 'nation states'. Small compared to the Empire virtually stretching from Spain to China.

 

 

Yes, would that be a tongue in cheek empire?

 

Actually it seems to me that the totalitarian states (a western term, is it not?) you refer to, are rather similar to proposed Islamic states, in that they believe in the use of extreme punishments and the repression of any opinion which is not approved of by the state (no free speech). Doesn't it make you cringe? It does me.

 

Salaam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doesn't me!

 

What makes me cringe though is the way things are dealt with under democracy, human rights and all that kind of stuff. For example: When somebody kills somebody else deliberately and without a good reason he should be killed, right? I mean under Islaamic Law...Under democracy he'll go to prison for a couple of years and he would be given another chance because he has had an experience,he would be a better man!

 

Under a democratic regime people would tell you that they've got to referendum to decide of important matters. They would referendum and forbid death penalty because the majority would choose life rather than death. Muslims or whatever. Human nature...

 

Never mind, they'll find excuses for that. They'll tell you that it's medieval and barbaric and they'll find some cool big mufti who'se gonna tell them that it's the right thing, they'll find a whole bunch of them I assure you. Isn't it happening now in your country?! People who say something like: Oh, the poor little robber guy! He's already in trouble and you wanna chop off his hand! And put his wrist in boiling oil! And leave him without a right hand! Why not the left?! Why not a foot for that matter?! It's more convenient to live just without a foot! Let's vote and decide about it!

 

Democracy is the rule of the majority. Islaamic Sharia is the rule of Allah. This should be enough to tell you that it's heresy to begin with.

 

The majority is uneducated and blind, a minority is educated and wise. Now, you take a box and make the voice of somebody like al Imaam Ahmad equal to the voice of anybody else and then tell your people that you've done the right thing! Now how can this be?! How did you let the foolish majority rule over the wise minority?!

 

I don't give a damn about the appellation of the regime under which I live. I don't care if the president's gonna rule all his life or rule for a couple of years! I don't care if he wants his children and his children's children to rule after him. What I care about, what is most important for me is that he and his regime would bow to Islaamic Shareea!

You would tell me that's what we're lookin' for by applying for democracy! But it's impossible!

 

Democracy has got to be manipulated in order to succeed in the eyes of the populace...Ask yourselves why you've been told that anybody can run for president but in reality you always have just a couple of candidates whom you don't know anything about and from which you'll have to elect? Why is it impossible for you to select?!

 

Got my point?!

 

Your regimes do not respect Islaamic Shareea because your people do not give a damn about Islaamic Shareea. That's it, period!

 

Blame yourselves as much as you're blaming them. and then try to change it. Not by rioting!

Not by destroying public property! Not by killing! But by other reasonable means: Enjoining right and forbidding wrong.

 

Now read this and think about it:

 

THE conscious and intelligent manipulation of the

organized habits and opinions of the masses is an

important element in democratic society. Those who

manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute

an invisible government which is the true ruling

power of our country.

We are governed, our minds are molded, our

tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men

we have never heard of. This is a logical result of

the way in which our democratic society is organized.

Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in

this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly

functioning society.

 

E.L.Bernays. Propaganda, 1928, page 9.

 

Salaam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I doesn't me!

 

What makes me cringe though is the way things are dealt with under democracy, human rights and all that kind of stuff. For example: When somebody kills somebody else deliberately and without a good reason he should be killed, right? I mean under Islaamic Law...Under democracy he'll go to prison for a couple of years and he would be given another chance because he has had an experience,he would be a better man!

 

Under a democratic regime people would tell you that they've got to referendum to decide of important matters. They would referendum and forbid death penalty because the majority would choose life rather than death. Muslims or whatever. Human nature...

 

Never mind, they'll find excuses for that. They'll tell you that it's medieval and barbaric and they'll find some cool big mufti who'se gonna tell them that it's the right thing, they'll find a whole bunch of them I assure you. Isn't it happening now in your country?! People who say something like: Oh, the poor little robber guy! He's already in trouble and you wanna chop off his hand! And put his wrist in boiling oil! And leave him without a right hand! Why not the left?! Why not a foot for that matter?! It's more convenient to live just without a foot! Let's vote and decide about it!

 

Democracy is the rule of the majority. Islaamic Sharia is the rule of Allah. This should be enough to tell you that it's heresy to begin with.

 

The majority is uneducated and blind, a minority is educated and wise. Now, you take a box and make the voice of somebody like al Imaam Ahmad equal to the voice of anybody else and then tell your people that you've done the right thing! Now how can this be?! How did you let the foolish majority rule over the wise minority?!

 

I don't give a damn about the appellation of the regime under which I live. I don't care if the president's gonna rule all his life or rule for a couple of years! I don't care if he wants his children and his children's children to rule after him. What I care about, what is most important for me is that he and his regime would bow to Islaamic Shareea!

You would tell me that's what we're lookin' for by applying for democracy! But it's impossible!

 

Democracy has got to be manipulated in order to succeed in the eyes of the populace...Ask yourselves why you've been told that anybody can run for president but in reality you always have just a couple of candidates whom you don't know anything about and from which you'll have to elect? Why is it impossible for you to select?!

 

Got my point?!

 

Your regimes do not respect Islaamic Shareea because your people do not give a damn about Islaamic Shareea. That's it, period!

 

Blame yourselves as much as you're blaming them. and then try to change it. Not by rioting!

Not by destroying public property! Not by killing! But by other reasonable means: Enjoining right and forbidding wrong.

 

Now read this and think about it:

 

THE conscious and intelligent manipulation of the

organized habits and opinions of the masses is an

important element in democratic society. Those who

manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute

an invisible government which is the true ruling

power of our country.

We are governed, our minds are molded, our

tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men

we have never heard of. This is a logical result of

the way in which our democratic society is organized.

Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in

this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly

functioning society.

 

E.L.Bernays. Propaganda, 1928, page 9.

 

Salaam.

 

 

Hello, it was honestly very good to read you post.

I say that in the true spirit of true democracy, even though I disagree with some of it.

Obviously you feel very marginalised (a buzz word of the current way of thinking) and that things aren't right (will they ever?). Obviously I don't know which country you live in but I can see you have a good idea of what a lot of people think regarding criminality, not only in the West but elsewhere.

I do think that there is a battlefield regarding the issues of punishment. I think it is one of the major issues of our age. The battle, to my mind, is about the past versus the future. the primitive versus the more intelligent. It is also about the spiritual, the moral and the material and the ammoral.

Islam, I think is at odds with 'freedom'. To the Muslim, freedom seems an impossibility, so long have they only known slavery and servitude. This is point number one.

Freedom is an on-going process. I believe we are at the start of a new age (another one for us in the west) and that this will be a time of great growth, expansion, mentally and also into space.

 

We have the concept but we havn't got it right yet. We don't truly understand the balance of human motivation. That is, that crime can be prevented both by education and the erradication of injustice and also by the threat of punishment and laws which are enforced. I firmly believe that the latter is a primitive situation. We are all wishing for Utopia. Don't you think?

Muslims perhaps see back to the 'Golden age' of Islam when communities and 'society' were governed by moral and strong laws. But the world has changed since those days (which were mainly in certain

parts of the world). Societies have changed. Muslims refused and still refuse, to see anything beyond the Koran. So they either fail to recognise that a great many people in the world simply do not know anything about, or disagree with Islam, full stop. Or that they want to change the rest of the world into being converts of Islam (get lost, I would say, not agreeing with any form of coercion).

To the western democratic idea, religion is a matter for personal choice, it has and should not have anything to do with 'the state'. We've been through all that you see, with Oliver Cromwell in England and so on during the 15/16th centuries.

 

What this all boils down to is a vision of 'society' or The World. Plenty of things are wrong but to put them right we need people, politicians or representatives of the people. That is what the world should be, in my opinion: true democracy means debate, argument agreement, disagreement and then, usually compromise.

Thats the only way the world should be run. Otherwise there's always going to be trouble!

 

Salaam,

 

ron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way you know the way 'Muslims' have responded to heresey in the past: Hallaj who said 'I am the truth' was flogged, disemboweled, then hung and finally his head was cut off. No doubt a very just punishment for his 'crime'.

 

r

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I doesn't me!

 

What makes me cringe though is the way things are dealt with under democracy, human rights and all that kind of stuff. For example: When somebody kills somebody else deliberately and without a good reason he should be killed, right? I mean under Islaamic Law...Under democracy he'll go to prison for a couple of years and he would be given another chance because he has had an experience,he would be a better man!

 

Then what happens 3 years down the line, after he's been executed and new evidence comes to light which exonorates him? Don't tell me that it never happens, because it frequently

 

How does killing him make you any better than him?

 

"Human rights and all that kind of stuff." You say that as if it's a bad thing, as if a person's human rights should be waivered in favor of your religious beliefs. No. That should never happen, ever.

 

Under a democratic regime people would tell you that they've got to referendum to decide of important matters. They would referendum and forbid death penalty because the majority would choose life rather than death. Muslims or whatever. Human nature...

 

Never mind, they'll find excuses for that. They'll tell you that it's medieval and barbaric and they'll find some cool big mufti who'se gonna tell them that it's the right thing, they'll find a whole bunch of them I assure you. Isn't it happening now in your country?! People who say something like: Oh, the poor little robber guy! He's already in trouble and you wanna chop off his hand! And put his wrist in boiling oil! And leave him without a right hand! Why not the left?! Why not a foot for that matter?! It's more convenient to live just without a foot! Let's vote and decide about it!

 

Corporal punishment was removed in most countries for a reason. It is barbaric. It is a primitive and disgusting practice. You can gauge the morality of a country by how it treats its prisoners.

 

You use murder as an example, here, but I wonder what else you'd include?

 

Already in many Islamic Theocracies, simply leaving Islam is punishable by death.. You enjoy freedom of speech? Well, you can say "goodbye" to that. Say hello to censorship. I'm assuming you live in America, right? How would you feel if any other religion but say... Hinduism was banned? If you left Hinduism, or followed a different religion, it's "Off with their heads!".

 

A homeless person is starving on the streets, he hasn't eaten for weeks, and doesn't have enough money to get any food. Literally, his only chance for survival is to steal something, otherwise he'd die.

 

Democracy is the rule of the majority. Islaamic Sharia is the rule of Allah. This should be enough to tell you that it's heresy to begin with.

 

Heresy or not, I really couldn't care less. Chopping people's hands off? How can you say that's not barbaric?

 

The majority is uneducated and blind, a minority is educated and wise. Now, you take a box and make the voice of somebody like al Imaam Ahmad equal to the voice of anybody else and then tell your people that you've done the right thing! Now how can this be?! How did you let the foolish majority rule over the wise minority?!

 

Being part of a minority does not automatically grant wisdom.

 

Every single person, no matter how seemingly small, is no better or worse than anyone else. I don't know who Al Imaam Ahmad is, nor do I particulary care, but why isn't his voice equal to anyone elses?

 

 

Your regimes do not respect Islaamic Shareea because your people do not give a damn about Islaamic Shareea. That's it, period!

 

No, I don't give a damn about Sharia. Why the smeg should I? I'm not a Muslim, and I'm not ever going to follow your Islamic law. I'd rather live in an anrachial state.

 

Blame yourselves as much as you're blaming them. and then try to change it. Not by rioting!

Not by destroying public property! Not by killing! But by other reasonable means: Enjoining right and forbidding wrong.

 

 

Ultimately, I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever bow to Sharia. If England became an Islamic Theocracy today, I'd move to America the next day.

 

I will not allow any religion to take away my rights as a human being, nor anyone elses. If you choose to give up yours, then fine, but don't you dare try to impose your religious laws on me.

 

I don't believe what you believe, and I won't be forced to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not talking to you Mr Freedom, I'm talking to another slave of God just like me.

 

So I won't delve in what you said, or maybe sometime in the future. But let me just ask you something.

 

Suppose that you have a wife or a dad or somebody, and then a thug comes to the house, he's discovered, he rapes your wife, he kills her, rips her apart, he puts her parts in a garbage can.

 

Do you think it's barbaric?

 

I don't know about you but for me it's barbaric, definitely.

 

And then the police snatches the guy, put him in jail, try him in court and all that crap, and after a couple of years he's free...He had a good life experience, he's a better man now.

 

Do you find that barbaric? Remember I'm talking about your supposed wife.. Raped, killed, ripped apart..

 

I don't know about you but for me it's barbaric, definitely.

 

And then comes a day, some thug, the same thug, comes in somebody else's house, he's discovered, he rapes the woman, he kills her, rips her apart, he puts her parts in a garbage can.

 

Do you think it's barbaric?

 

I don't know about you but for me it's barbaric, definitely. Not only that but the court is far more barbaric than tens of thugs just like that one, don't you think?!

 

So the barbaric act of killing the killer in inevitable and righteous. So is the thing for the rest of the other barbaric penalties. Every violence has got a meaning my friend.

 

This is religion, our beloved slavery to the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth.

 

You, you thing you're free by freeing yourself from religion, from ethics, from morals, but in reality you're a slave... To whom?!

 

To Satan, the devil. A creature.

 

Think about it buddy, you'll be judged, tried and punished or rewarded. Make your choice before you die.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never once said our legal system was perfect, no legal system is, and whilst I do agree the majority of sentencing is far too lax and forgiving, going out the other end and re-instating coproral punishment and the death penalty makes that country no better than the criminals they're convicting.

 

The criminal is dead. So what? Is that going to bring back whoever he killed? No. Is it going to punish hi,? Of course not, he'll be dead, he won't care. Will it punish his family, his friends and everyone who he meant something to? Yes. He may've been a sick, twisted individual, but the death penalty only punishes those that were close to him, whether they're innocent or not, it's not him, himself that suffers the worst of the pnishment. THAT is barbaric.

 

It's like suicide, who suffers more, the suicidee, or the suicidee's family?

 

Also, you then have the problem of getting the wrong person. All the evidence could point to someone being the murderer, and so you execute them. Say... 6 years later, new technology is developed and is used to reexamine some of the evidence, to find that the person was infact innocent. It's not like you can just release them and pay them compensation for incarcerating them, no, they're dead. And it DOES happen.

 

What if the person who did it is suffering from severe mental disorders? What if they physically could not help themselves?

 

What if it was an accident, and that person never meant to harm anyone, say... a fox jumped out infront of his car and he swerved to avoid it, but ended up killing someone accidently? Should they be executed?

 

I'm not free from ethics or morals, but I am free from religion, I'm free from nonsensical, stone-age laws with perverse, cruel and disgusting punishments, and I fully intend to keep it that way.

 

It's called "Free thought" for a reason. I won't let a religion dictate to me what I can and can't think. I won't let a religion dictate to me what I can and can't say or do.

 

Satan doesn't frighten me, nor does the threat of Hell. Trying to use scare tactics like that don't work. It's like threatening someone with the force choke that Darth Vader uses if they don't do what you say. I don't believe they exist, because I have no reason to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I never once said our legal system was perfect, no legal system is, and whilst I do agree the majority of sentencing is far too lax and forgiving, going out the other end and re-instating coproral punishment and the death penalty makes that country no better than the criminals they're convicting.

 

The criminal is dead. So what? Is that going to bring back whoever he killed? No. Is it going to punish hi,? Of course not, he'll be dead, he won't care. Will it punish his family, his friends and everyone who he meant something to? Yes. He may've been a sick, twisted individual, but the death penalty only punishes those that were close to him, whether they're innocent or not, it's not him, himself that suffers the worst of the pnishment. THAT is barbaric.

 

It's like suicide, who suffers more, the suicidee, or the suicidee's family?

 

Also, you then have the problem of getting the wrong person. All the evidence could point to someone being the murderer, and so you execute them. Say... 6 years later, new technology is developed and is used to reexamine some of the evidence, to find that the person was infact innocent. It's not like you can just release them and pay them compensation for incarcerating them, no, they're dead. And it DOES happen.

 

What if the person who did it is suffering from severe mental disorders? What if they physically could not help themselves?

 

What if it was an accident, and that person never meant to harm anyone, say... a fox jumped out infront of his car and he swerved to avoid it, but ended up killing someone accidently? Should they be executed?

 

I'm not free from ethics or morals, but I am free from religion, I'm free from nonsensical, stone-age laws with perverse, cruel and disgusting punishments, and I fully intend to keep it that way.

 

It's called "Free thought" for a reason. I won't let a religion dictate to me what I can and can't think. I won't let a religion dictate to me what I can and can't say or do.

 

Satan doesn't frighten me, nor does the threat of Hell. Trying to use scare tactics like that don't work. It's like threatening someone with the force choke that Darth Vader uses if they don't do what you say. I don't believe they exist, because I have no reason to.

 

 

I might just add that 'there is no compulsion in Islam' (if thats the exact quote from the Quran!). Nobody should attempt to force anyone into believing anything. This is freedom or free will, is it not?

 

ron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Free thought buddy? OK, you've got it!

We actually promote free thought in our way. You're free to believe, free to disbelieve. Just like Ron told you. But you'll have to go someplace where Islaamic law will not be able to chop off your head.

 

Lol!

 

No worry, almost nowhere would that be possible, so you're in security, relatively...I mean it's God's will, you can't escape... Be sure that you'll gonna pay for every bad thing you do, less you repent, here in this life or there in the after life. I'm not threatening you nor I'm trying to frighten you but just reminding you if you still have a soul. If it doesn't make sense to you, just ignore it, don't talk to me about it, I'll automatically understand!

 

Actually, the fact that you said that you're not frightened, not scared makes me feel you're indeed frightened and scared! Did I tell you that evil stinky boogeyman will have your carcass for lunch or something?! I just told you you're a slave to Satan, that's it! No scare tactics, no fright stories.

 

What else, yeah, about chopping hands, feet and hands, stoning, whipping, etc...There's also crucifying...

 

Lol!

 

You've got rules, OK! You do not chop off somebody's head or stone him to death just like that you know, you've got rules, rules, rules. I'm not saying that I'm sorry to tell you that we have such punishment in religion, no! I'm clarifying to you!It's not done in a random fashion! Besides, I'm not some kind of sadist or something, but God in his wisdom ordained things like so, so it's good for mankind even if mankind with their limited brains might think it's too much. It is just!

 

Believe what you want buddy, live the rest of your life like you please, but think about your carcass... You feel inside of your heart that you're not alive just by accident, that all of that creation and harmony and magnificence is just accidental...

 

Lay down on your comfortable sofa and think about it, we don't know you, we won't ridicule you in case you've changed your mind. Just be egotistic, be selfish! Think of saving your carcass...and your soul!

 

Warm regards!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I might just add that 'there is no compulsion in Islam' (if thats the exact quote from the Quran!). Nobody should attempt to force anyone into believing anything. This is freedom or free will, is it not?

 

ron

 

What does it say about forcing people to live under the rule of a religion they not only don't believe in, but find disgusting and repulsive?

 

Theocracy isn't nearly as free as a separation of church and state.

 

Also, remember, that forcing someone to believe something isn't always as overt as suggested in the last few posts of this thread. Indoctrination of children from a young age, and censoring anything that might give them a point of view that differs from the point of view you want them to hold is also forcing people to believe. The young mind has to absorb information fast, after all, they have thousnads of years worth of social progress to catch up on, as such, their minds are like sponges, they soak up any information their parents or elders tell them. In this mentally vulnerable state, it's easy to persuade them that if they don't believe they'll suffer forever, and that if they do believe they'll recieve eternal rewards.

 

Even if when they're older they stop believing, once they've been indoctrinated into it from birth, is still punishable by death.

 

1) Teach them it as fact when they're young. Children very rarely question what adults tell them is factual.

2) Kil them if they stop believing, and make sure they know this.

 

Here in the UK, we frequently get asylum seekers, seeking safety from Islamic theocracies. Why do they need to seek the safety and protection of a foreign country? Because they deconverted from Islam.

 

How is that not forcing people to believe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What does it say about forcing people to live under the rule of a religion they not only don't believe in, but find disgusting and repulsive?

 

Theocracy isn't nearly as free as a separation of church and state.

 

Also, remember, that forcing someone to believe something isn't always as overt as suggested in the last few posts of this thread. Indoctrination of children from a young age, and censoring anything that might give them a point of view that differs from the point of view you want them to hold is also forcing people to believe. The young mind has to absorb information fast, after all, they have thousnads of years worth of social progress to catch up on, as such, their minds are like sponges, they soak up any information their parents or elders tell them. In this mentally vulnerable state, it's easy to persuade them that if they don't believe they'll suffer forever, and that if they do believe they'll recieve eternal rewards.

 

Even if when they're older they stop believing, once they've been indoctrinated into it from birth, is still punishable by death.

 

1) Teach them it as fact when they're young. Children very rarely question what adults tell them is factual.

2) Kil them if they stop believing, and make sure they know this.

 

Here in the UK, we frequently get asylum seekers, seeking safety from Islamic theocracies. Why do they need to seek the safety and protection of a foreign country? Because they deconverted from Islam.

 

How is that not forcing people to believe?

 

There are plastic non- thinking robots all over the world, of all descriptions ...

 

r

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Free thought buddy? OK, you've got it!

We actually promote free thought in our way. You're free to believe, free to disbelieve. Just like Ron told you. But you'll have to go someplace where Islaamic law will not be able to chop off your head.

 

Lol!

 

No worry, almost nowhere would that be possible, so you're in security, relatively...I mean it's God's will, you can't escape... Be sure that you'll gonna pay for every bad thing you do, less you repent, here in this life or there in the after life. I'm not threatening you nor I'm trying to frighten you but just reminding you if you still have a soul. If it doesn't make sense to you, just ignore it, don't talk to me about it, I'll automatically understand!

 

So I've got Ron telling me that Islam doesn't teach its followers to force people to believe, on the other hand I have you telling me that if you don't believe you get your head cut off by the Islamic state.

 

Either one of you is wrong, or Islam makes no sense whatsoever. Either way, both of your statements are contradictory.

 

As for Islam promoting free thought, have you even researched what free thought is?

 

You say Islam promotes free thought, then you say Islam will chop off people's head for not believing in Islam.

 

You're either lying about knowing and understanding what freethinking is, or you understand what freethinking is and you're lying about Islam promoting free thought. One way or another, you're flat out lying. (But then, the forum rules state that only non-believers can't tell lies pertaining to religion, believers are free to lie as much as possible. "14- Non-believers putting religious lie in factual sentence: warn".".)

 

Actually, the fact that you said that you're not frightened, not scared makes me feel you're indeed frightened and scared! Did I tell you that evil stinky boogeyman will have your carcass for lunch or something?! I just told you you're a slave to Satan, that's it! No scare tactics, no fright stories.

 

How can I possibly be a slave to Satan? I don't even believe he exists. YOU believe he exists, not me. I'm no more a slave to Satan than I am a slave to Jabba the Hutt.

 

What else, yeah, about chopping hands, feet and hands, stoning, whipping, etc...There's also crucifying...

 

Chopping off hands, feet, stoning to death, whipping and crucifying... no, Islam isn't barbaric at all, is it?[/sarcasm]

 

Lol!

 

Lol! Indeed.

 

You've got rules, OK! You do not chop off somebody's head or stone him to death just like that you know, you've got rules, rules, rules. I'm not saying that I'm sorry to tell you that we have such punishment in religion, no! I'm clarifying to you!It's not done in a random fashion! Besides, I'm not some kind of sadist or something, but God in his wisdom ordained things like so, so it's good for mankind even if mankind with their limited brains might think it's too much. It is just!

 

Except that it's not just. A fictional character ordanining something does not make it reasonable, or justified. Right down to the very core, the punishments you're talking about, they are primitive and barbaric and downright evil. And that's not counting forcing someone to burn in eternal hellfire for all eternity. I will never bow to such a twisted perception of "justice.". I'd fight to the death to prevent such a vile, disgusting and sickening "justice" system from forcing itself upon me, and it upsets me that there are countries out there that get away with this tyranny on a daily basis.

 

Believe what you want buddy, live the rest of your life like you please, but think about your carcass... You feel inside of your heart that you're not alive just by accident, that all of that creation and harmony and magnificence is just accidental...

 

"Accidental" implies it was an accident - an unintended cause of someone's actions. Of course I know all of existence isn't here accidentally - there's no one there to've made an accident.

 

Lay down on your comfortable sofa and think about it, we don't know you, we won't ridicule you in case you've changed your mind. Just be egotistic, be selfish! Think of saving your carcass...and your soul!

 

Warm regards!

 

Ok, just prove to me beyond reasonable doubt that souls exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to be sure: From the Quruan:

 

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When somebody kills somebody else deliberately and without a good reason he should be killed, right? I mean under Islaamic Law...Under democracy he'll go to prison for a couple of years and he would be given another chance because he has had an experience,he would be a better man!

So true, In Ireland a lot of murderers serve 7 years and get out on 4 for good behaviour! It is really a joke. Imagine it was a relative that you lost to some murderer and he/she gets out in 4 years. It is not justice. And that doesn't reflect the people of Ireland because most people would want murderers and rapists to be in prison for life but somehow the law is easy on these criminals.

 

And as for people who steal I just don't understand why people make a big deal about chopping off a hand. I am sure less people would steal if they thought their hand could be chopped off. The punishment is supposed to deter people not encourage them but in my country and many other countries the punishment certainly doesn't deter people.

_____

 

And yea unfortunately states in the middle east are corrupt also but they do not represent an Islamic state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So true, In Ireland a lot of murderers serve 7 years and get out on 4 for good behaviour! It is really a joke. Imagine it was a relative that you lost to some murderer and he/she gets out in 4 years. It is not justice. And that doesn't reflect the people of Ireland because most people would want murderers and rapists to be in prison for life but somehow the law is easy on these criminals.

 

The thing is, that's an appeal to emotion.

 

I do agree that sentancing is too light, but as I said, diving off the deep end and reintroducing corporal punishment won't solve anything. It's barbaric and simply has no place in any civilised socitey.

 

And as for people who steal I just don't understand why people make a big deal about chopping off a hand. I am sure less people would steal if they thought their hand could be chopped off. The punishment is supposed to deter people not encourage them but in my country and many other countries the punishment certainly doesn't deter people.

 

The thing is, it won't deter people. In US states where corporal punishment is still used (Namely the death penalty.), the instances of offences commited that carry that sentance are actually higher than in states that the death sentance has been abolished.

 

If you don't believe me, here's my source: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetdeathpenaltyinfo(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetdeathpenaltyinfo(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/deterrence...er-murder-rates[/url]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of the regimes were imposed by the people from western influence after the world wars.

If not directly imposed, then they are supported directly by them.

Most ,not all .

The apathy of the people and their sinful ways is also a factor

Edited by abu_hafs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most of the regimes were imposed by the people from western influence after the world wars.

If not directly imposed, then they are supported directly by them.

Most ,not all .

The apathy of the people and their sinful ways is also a factor

 

One of the things about chopping a thief's hand off is that he won't then be able to work properly for the rest of his life.

How about a bit of light torture?

 

ron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The thing is, it won't deter people. In US states where corporal punishment is still used (Namely the death penalty.), the instances of offenses committed that carry that sentence are actually higher than in states that the death sentence has been abolished.

 

Can't be true, buddy!

 

Just think about it a little bit.

 

How much's the recidivism rate of a dead thug? Zero.

 

How much 's the recidivism rate of a free thug? Different from zero and positive.

 

Got the catch? It's Absurd! Somebody is lying to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can't be true, buddy!

 

Just think about it a little bit.

 

How much's the recidivism rate of a dead thug? Zero.

 

How much 's the recidivism rate of a free thug? Different from zero and positive.

 

Got the catch? It's Absurd! Somebody is lying to you.

 

 

Hang on a minute. Is somebody talking about 'killing thugs'? For what crime? Murder, I presume.

So what are the facts, regarding these states in America?

 

ron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×