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What Is The Root Of This World's Ills?

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I was wondering what is the Islamic narrative for explaining the ills of this world? Disease, death, wars, human cruelty and oppression perpetrated by the powerful against the powerless. There seem to be so many sources of suffering, both natural and human. How does Islam explain the state of the world we live in?

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I was wondering what is the Islamic narrative for explaining the ills of this world? Disease, death, wars, human cruelty and oppression perpetrated by the powerful against the powerless. There seem to be so many sources of suffering, both natural and human. How does Islam explain the state of the world we live in?

 

although i suffer more by flies and mosquitoes in my area,

 

i see this life just as a "battle area" a "test" against the Satan whispers, the lusts, the bad company and the whole circumstances surrounding the human.

While the main goal of the battle is to reach the truth, the real god, and to follow him ….

The main weapon we have is the mind, thinking and reasoning

The results, will be on the day of judgment.

Edited by AHMAD_73

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Hello,

 

The primary explanation is that this world is a test. Thus God has created disease, for example, to test the patience of His servants. Disease can serve other functions such as punishment. It can be a punishment and atonoment at the same time if the person repents. Death is something that everybody will taste. God will destroy everything before they Day of Judgement including Angels (pbut) before He brings it back to existance for the Day of Judgement. Death signifies the termination of your test. Oppression and war exist precisely because this world is a test. He has given people the capacity to choose their actions and thus oppression results.

 

I would like to quote one verse from the Qur'an:

 

And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth.'' They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, Ü while we glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You.'' He (Allah) said: "I know that which you do not know.'' (2:30)

 

The Angels (pbut) also wondered about the wisdom behind creating creatures such as humans who will cause mischief and shed blood unjustly. God told them that He knows what they, the Angels (pbut), don't know, i.e. He has a specific wisdom behind creating men.

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So much of this is a test. Is the explanation the same even in those cases that seem to be difficult to explain as a test. A small child contracts a debilitating disease and ultimately dies from it after a prolonged period of suffering. Is it a test for the child? Or is there something else happening in such an instance?

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So much of this is a test. Is the explanation the same even in those cases that seem to be difficult to explain as a test. A small child contracts a debilitating disease and ultimately dies from it after a prolonged period of suffering. Is it a test for the child? Or is there something else happening in such an instance?

 

Well, like the verse I quoted says only God really graps the full wisdom behind these tests. We can only understand a little bit of the wisdom. For example, children are a source of trial for the parents. In other words, the parents are tried whether they will take of their child or whether they will thank God for what they have and are patient or not. Of course you can imagine that it is not only a trial for the parents but for the grandparents and the whole family, even society at large. Unfortunate people are generally speaking a trial for fortunate people. Will those fortunate enough help those who aren't as well of? Like I said, the full wisdom cannot be grasped by anyone except God.

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So it is the unfathomable wisdom of God that I cannot understand why a child would suffer in order to test others? Thank you for your answer.

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So much of this is a test. Is the explanation the same even in those cases that seem to be difficult to explain as a test. A small child contracts a debilitating disease and ultimately dies from it after a prolonged period of suffering. Is it a test for the child? Or is there something else happening in such an instance?

 

1st that's a test for the parents,

 

2nd and how to know that's not more merciful for the family than being a very bad guy and hurt his family severely.

or to life a very miserable life and then to be killed horribly any way

he may be too in the paradise without any test, that's more mercy for him and the family than you think,

 

That example of mercy has been stated in the Quran

018.080 Y: "As for the youth, his parents were people of Faith, and we feared that he would grieve them by obstinate rebellion and ingratitude (to Allah and man)"

018.081 Y: "So we desired that their Lord would give them in exchange (a son) better in purity (of conduct) and closer in affection."

 

And those who die due to diseases or building collapsing or burnings, Those who have been chosen to die in a sudden unexpected way will be honored to have some degree of "Shaheed". Since the god has ended their test suddenly than the others, he will substitute them with some kind of honor and extra good deeds, And that's great mercy too

Edited by AHMAD_73

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But why the suffering for the child? Your 2nd explains the death of the child (as does the paradise explanation), but not the prolonged suffering. And couldn't an omnipotent God arrange to test the parents without making the child suffer? This is why I think Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz response is the appropriate one, "I know that which you do not know".

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So it is the unfathomable wisdom of God that I cannot understand why a child would suffer in order to test others? Thank you for your answer.

 

ok, then if you see this as a very bad thing " to have some short time pain to gain a long life happiness"

 

make your main goal in this life is to minimiz the pain, all kinds of it. and we will may need to establish the best laws for individuls/groups/ and nations to deal justly with each other and that will lead surly to what the real god established in his right religion

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But why the suffering for the child? Your 2nd explains the death of the child (as does the paradise explanation), but not the prolonged suffering. And couldn't an omnipotent God arrange to test the parents without making the child suffer? This is why I think Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz response is the appropriate one, "I know that which you do not know".

 

i feel like pain is pain for a child or adult or grown

 

prolonged , is a relative term. comparing that to the universe life or the eternity it's not prolonged any more.

 

do you believe in the second life?

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ok, then if you see this as a very bad thing " to have some short time pain to gain a long life happiness"

How does the childs prolonged pain gain them "a long life happiness"?

 

i feel like pain is pain for a child or adult or grown

 

prolonged , is a relative term. comparing that to the universe life or the eternity it's not prolonged any more.

 

do you believe in the second life?

But often adults are the cause of their own pain. Additionally, many would say that they must have done something in life to deserve the pain. But a small child? They are not the cause of their own pain, nor have they done anything to deserve it, if one believes that kind of thing. When I speak of prolonged, I mean something longer than what typically pains small children (a scrap, a light fall, etc). I mean something like sickle cell anemia, cancer, maleria, smallpox, starvation, and other ills that can befall a child.

 

In answer to your question, no, I don't believe in the second life. I believe that we have one life, and then we die. I do not know what happens afterwards, but I strongly suspect it will be nothing.

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So much of this is a test. Is the explanation the same even in those cases that seem to be difficult to explain as a test. A small child contracts a debilitating disease and ultimately dies from it after a prolonged period of suffering. Is it a test for the child? Or is there something else happening in such an instance?

 

Wisdom behind some of these events are explained in the Quran chapter 18 as quoted below.

 

 

[18. 66] Moses said to him: 'May I follow you so that you can teach me of that you have learned of righteousness? '

[18.67] 'You will not bear patiently with me, ' He replied.

[18.68] 'For how can you bear patiently with that which you have never encompassed in your knowledge? '

[18.69] He (Moses) said: 'If Allah wills, you shall find me patient, I shall not disobey your order. '

[18.70] He said: 'If you follow me, you must not question me about anything till I myself speak to you concerning it. '

[18.71] So they departed. When they boarded a ship, he bored a hole in it. 'What, have you made a hole in it, ' he said, 'is it to drown its passengers? You have done a dreadful thing. '

[18.72] 'Did I not I tell you, ' he replied, 'that you would not bear patiently with me? '

[18.73] Moses said: 'Do not blame me for what I forgot, nor press me to do something which is too difficult, '

[18.74] and so they departed. Thereafter they met a boy and he killed him. He (Moses) exclaimed: 'What, have you killed a pure soul and it was not done (in retaliation) for a soul you have done a terrible thing. '

[18.75] 'Did I not tell you, ' he replied, 'that you would not be able to bear patiently with me? '

[18.76] He (Moses) said: 'If I question you again do not let me be your companion; you already have enough excuse. '

[18.77] So they departed and thereafter they came to the inhabitants of a village. They asked its inhabitants for some food, but they declined to host them. There, they found a wall about to fall down whereupon his companion restored it. He (Moses) said: 'Had you wished, you could have taken payment for that. '

[18.78] He said: 'This is the parting between me and you. But now I will tell you the interpretation of that which you could not patiently bear.

[18.79] As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working on the sea. I rendered it imperfect because behind them there was a king who was taking every ship by brutal force.

[18.80] As for the boy, his parents are believers, and we were afraid lest he should impose on them with his insolence and disbelief.

[18.81] It was our wish that their Lord should grant them another in exchange, another better in purity and tenderness.

[18.82] As for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the city. Beneath it was (buried) a treasure which belonged to them. Their father had been a righteous person and your Lord willed that when they reach manhood to bring out their treasure as a mercy from your Lord. What I did was not done by my own command. That is the interpretation of what you could not bear with patience. '

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Wisdom behind some of these events are explained in the Quran chapter 18 as quoted below.

Thank you. It seems to say much the same as Younes Ibn Abd' al-Aziz.

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How does the childs prolonged pain gain them "a long life happiness"?

in the hereafter in Jannah, there is a good hadeeth narrated by Abu-dawood " ÇáãæáæÏ Ýì ÇáÌäÉ " which mostly means "the child will be in the paradise (if died before adulthood)"

 

But often adults are the cause of their own pain. Additionally, many would say that they must have done something in life to deserve the pain. But a small child? They are not the cause of their own pain, nor have they done anything to deserve it, if one believes that kind of thing. When I speak of prolonged, I mean something longer than what typically pains small children (a scrap, a light fall, etc). I mean something like sickle cell anemia, cancer, maleria, smallpox, starvation, and other ills that can befall a child.

if you have an authentic statistics you will find that cases are odd in percentages.

 

poverty, physical fitness, mind fitness, parents and family' status, local area status, state, country, facilities, weather,..........sudden death, ……. flies and mosquitoes, dust, pollution, .......every difference in any person's life due to outside effects, out of hand effect, Allah will consider and will substitute the affected man/woman/adult/child/.....with a full generosity, that the others will envy them for the honor they will have.

 

we will surly know this 60-70-80 years life is non-comparable to the eternal life!!!!

 

you tell me your explanation for that "injustice" from your point of view?

 

In answer to your question, no, I don't believe in the second life. I believe that we have one life, and then we die. I do not know what happens afterwards, but I strongly suspect it will be nothing.

Then do you believe all the oppressors and the oppressed, all the killers and their victims,...........are the same, equal, no punishment for the first and no compensation for the second?

and even if he subjected to the earthly laws, it mostly will not compensate the oppressed, and it may be insufficient for the oppressors?

for example Hitler killed and caused the killing of almost 60,000,000 innocent persons, and injured at least double that number. is it done for him, what do you think?

Which means he had to have almost 200,000,000 punishments including let's say 10,000,000 executions. How can you see that?

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in the hereafter in Jannah, there is a good hadeeth narrated by Abu-dawood " ÇáãæáæÏ Ýì ÇáÌäÉ " which mostly means "the child will be in the paradise (if died before adulthood)"

As I said before, that justifies death, but not suffering.

 

if you have an authentic statistics you will find that cases are odd in percentages.

 

poverty, physical fitness, mind fitness, parents and family' status, local area status, state, country, facilities, weather,..........sudden death, ……. flies and mosquitoes, dust, pollution, .......every difference in any person's life due to outside effects, out of hand effect, Allah will consider and will substitute the affected man/woman/adult/child/.....with a full generosity, that the others will envy them for the honor they will have.

 

we will surly know this 60-70-80 years life is non-comparable to the eternal life!!!!

So, are you saying that paradise will be better for those who suffered, and that is the reason they suffer, so that they can have a better paradise? It isn't clear to me what it is you are saying, so I apologize if I have misunderstood you.

 

you tell me your explanation for that "injustice" from your point of view?

 

Then do you believe all the oppressors and the oppressed, all the killers and their victims,...........are the same, equal, no punishment for the first and no compensation for the second?

and even if he subjected to the earthly laws, it mostly will not compensate the oppressed, and it may be insufficient for the oppressors?

for example Hitler killed and caused the killing of almost 60,000,000 innocent persons, and injured at least double that number. is it done for him, what do you think?

Which means he had to have almost 200,000,000 punishments including let's say 10,000,000 executions. How can you see that?

So again, are you saying that God is making them suffer in order to justify giving them more in paradise? My perspective is fairly simple to understand, the injustice of it is that I cannot imagine a just reason for causing the child to suffer. It seems to serve no purpose and is a terrible experience for all involved. The explanations so far are:

1. It is a test (although I am not sure what sort of test it is for the child)

2. It is just, but I simply cannot see the justification because I lack God's perspective

3. It is a ticket to a better paradise (at least, that seems to be your argument, although I could be misunderstanding).

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As I said before, that justifies death, but not suffering.

 

but it does, i think you may have to know what the day of judgment looks like, briefly :

first you will left this life having two books, one for the good deeds and the 2nd for the bad deeds. each deed will be multiplied by a number of sins depends on the deed nature and the circumstances too. Allah will sum up the whole equivalent deeds bad and good, with a scale less than an atom, [and so for more harder circumstances the multiplying factor will be more and more relatively]

 

then the person will get to the tomb, then many different stages in the day of judgment and finally the great accountant in front of the god. the people will suffer many difficulties, or will be awarded many kinds of honor during all these different stages.

 

then if he have the same good deeds like one colleague in this life, he may have 10 more in the next life, generally that will save him away from many difficulties, and will increase his honor and grades in all of these stages and then the paradise.

 

So, are you saying that paradise will be better for those who suffered, and that is the reason they suffer, so that they can have a better paradise? It isn't clear to me what it is you are saying, so I apologize if I have misunderstood you .

 

it could be my fault, i'm not original English speaker,

but, yes, if both had the success degrees to get to the paradise. the one who suffered will have a better paradise. the paradise have grades, the difference between each one and the next is v. big luxury levels.

 

So again, are you saying that God is making them suffer in order to justify giving them more in paradise? My perspective is fairly simple to understand, the injustice of it is that I cannot imagine a just reason for causing the child to suffer. It seems to serve no purpose and is a terrible experience for all involved. The explanations so far are:

1. It is a test (although I am not sure what sort of test it is for the child)

2. It is just, but I simply cannot see the justification because I lack God's perspective

3. It is a ticket to a better paradise (at least, that seems to be your argument, although I could be misunderstanding).

1- It's mainly a test for the family, while the child will be compensated generously for that

2- it could be an earthly punishment for the parents for some kind of sins (adultery and AIDS or Homose.xuality and some types of cancers), and the same the Children will be compensated.

3- both the upper cases will be a big lesson for the whole society to avoid sins and do more good deeds and to rbent to their god.

and Allah knows best.

 

That may be more understandable if you tried to answer the bigger questions:

why we aren't the same in every thing, just typical?

If some horrible issues happened or will happen on this earth, including what you mentioned, what could be the logic explanation to fulfill justice?

 

I like to know your answers too about:

you tell me your explanation for that "injustice" from your point of view?

Then do you believe all the oppressors and the oppressed, all the killers and their victims,...........are the same, equal, no punishment for the first and no compensation for the second?

and even if he subjected to the earthly laws, it mostly will not compensate the oppressed, and it may be insufficient for the oppressors?

for example Hitler killed and caused the killing of almost 60,000,000 innocent persons, and injured at least double that number. is it done for him, what do you think?

Which means he had to have almost 200,000,000 punishments including let's say 10,000,000 executions. How can you see that?

 

have a nice day/night

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If paradise is better if you suffer, why would anyone relieve another person's suffering, since that would rob them of a greater paradise, or seek to relieve their own suffering, since it would lessen their own reward in paradise?

 

In response to your question, I think that there is some punishment for some oppressors. We see societies rise up against dictators, and criminals are punished by legal systems or through the consequences of their poor decisions, but beyond that, no, I don't believe there is any difference between the oppressed and the oppressor. Both will die and that will be the end of them. I may not like it, I may wish that there was some additional measure that could reach those who have escaped (like karma?, not sure), but wishing that something was is not the same as it being so. I would like many things that are not and most likely never will be.

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Sad Clown, as humans; we are never in the position to know everything, we don't even know what is going on next door, let alone in the rest of the world, or in another solar system, or in another galaxy..etc etc..Greatest 'evil' from a small child's perspective is when his parents let some stranger stab him with a needle, greatest evil to a teenager is when you take his mobile phone away or ground him on his night out with his buddies, greatest evil to a parent is when his child is killed or murdered..In all these cases, our heart would yell out out for justice and seek answers, and unless we admit that we do not know or not in the position to know everything, we would NEVER get the answer or any sort of justifications for those evils. Once you child is killed, no one can bring him or her back, except the One who created her in the first place.In Islam that is the answer, my point being, if you put yourself in the position that everything stops at death, then let me tell you that you'll never find your answer nor justifications for all those questions of yours, OTH if you are willing to explore the possibilities that we have a Creator that created this universe and everything in it, including us humans, that He can recreate whatever He wills again, the possibility all each of us would be raised up and live again, then there would be the answers and justifications that would make sense..

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Sad Clown, as humans; we are never in the position to know everything, we don't even know what is going on next door, let alone in the rest of the world, or in another solar system, or in another galaxy..etc etc..Greatest 'evil' from a small child's perspective is when his parents let some stranger stab him with a needle, greatest evil to a teenager is when you take his mobile phone away or ground him on his night out with his buddies, greatest evil to a parent is when his child is killed or murdered..In all these cases, our heart would yell out out for justice and seek answers, and unless we admit that we do not know or not in the position to know everything, we would NEVER get the answer or any sort of justifications for those evils. Once you child is killed, no one can bring him or her back, except the One who created her in the first place.In Islam that is the answer, my point being, if you put yourself in the position that everything stops at death, then let me tell you that you'll never find your answer nor justifications for all those questions of yours, OTH if you are willing to explore the possibilities that we have a Creator that created this universe and everything in it, including us humans, that He can recreate whatever He wills again, the possibility all each of us would be raised up and live again, then there would be the answers and justifications that would make sense..

I understand that this is your answer. It just didn't seem to be Ahmad's answer. Also, I want you to know that I spent most of my life not just exploring the possibility that there was a Creator, but believing, worshipping and serving that Creator. Also, I did not choose to put myself in a position of believing everything stops at death. Rather, I lost my faith in there being a Creator, and if there is no creator, then it seemed very unlikely to me that there was anything like an afterlife as well (I realize that Buddhism holds to something after death without necessarily holding to a Creator, but I have other reasons for not being able to believe Buddhism). This seems like a fairly reasonable position to hold for someone who sees no reason to believe in God.

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I understand that this is your answer. It just didn't seem to be Ahmad's answer.

Well, Ahmad's presented the answers/justifications from the Quran, eg. if you were jabbed with a needle as a child but grew up and witness the consequences to others who didn't get the jab, ie. cannot walk straight, confined to wheelchairs etc, then you would no longer see your own jab as evil, do you? My point being about our human limitation of not knowing everything..

Also, I want you to know that I spent most of my life not just exploring the possibility that there was a Creator, but believing, worshipping and serving that Creator. Also, I did not choose to put myself in a position of believing everything stops at death. Rather, I lost my faith in there being a Creator, and if there is no creator, then it seemed very unlikely to me that there was anything like an afterlife as well (I realize that Buddhism holds to something after death without necessarily holding to a Creator, but I have other reasons for not being able to believe Buddhism). This seems like a fairly reasonable position to hold for someone who sees no reason to believe in God.

As I said, if you want to subscribe to the belief that everything stops at death, you'll never find the answers to those questions that you were asking and none of the br. Ahmad's answers would make sense to you..I'm sorry to say..All I'm asking you is to consider the possibility, nothing more..May Allah guide you and open your heart. Peace

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Since it seems you agree with Ahmad, then why would someone who believes that seek to relieve their own suffering, since it would lessen their own reward in paradise? I can understand relieving the suffering of others, since God probably commands it, but what about your own? Is there also a command that you should lessen your own suffering unless to do so would cause you to sin against God?

 

As for the other comment, I already explained that I did consider the possibility and I did not want to subscribe to the belief that everything stops at death. Would you believe in an afterlife if you did not also believe in God?

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Since it seems you agree with Ahmad, then why would someone who believes that seek to relieve their own suffering, since it would lessen their own reward in paradise? I can understand relieving the suffering of others, since God probably commands it, but what about your own? Is there also a command that you should lessen your own suffering unless to do so would cause you to sin against God?

As Muslims, we believe that everything that happens to us, good and bad, is due to God's will and nothing would ever happen to us unless He lets it happen.

This does not necessarily means that we would punish ourself just to suffer and earn a 'reward', nor we purposely keep ourselves suffering, this is not allowed and prohibited in Islam. I guess the point of suffering is to recognise God's wisdom and to remain steadfast in faith.

As for the other comment, I already explained that I did consider the possibility and I did not want to subscribe to the belief that everything stops at death. Would you believe in an afterlife if you did not also believe in God?

Without God, then nothing would exist and we would not be having this conversations...Allah Knows best

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there is only one reason for all suffering anywhere (excluding celestial calamities.including earthquakes&floods)social-suffering...as the prophet alaih assalaat vassalaam said, "you can not be a 'practicing believer/momin', until you love for your m,uslim brother whatever you love for yourself"....

in simpler words...muslims mostly "talk the talk, but dont WALK the WALK/gait"..

non-muslims..well..if muslims 'walked the walk'...not many would 'not' wish being in themerciful- fold of Islam

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If paradise is better if you suffer, why would anyone relieve another person's suffering, since that would rob them of a greater paradise, or seek to relieve their own suffering, since it would lessen their own reward in paradise?

We believe that any natural person will have the intendancy to help others, due to some thing Allah created inside every born person we call "Fetrah, ÇáÝØÑÉ" and could be translated to "natural instinct"

While in case of such instinct had been distorted due to different factor, As Moslem I have many other orders from Allah (who is the god of both me and the needy) that reinforce the Fetrah.

 

Allah tells in the Quran "005.032

Y: …. that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land."

And the prophet said "….cure and ask for curing o servants of Allah…".

 

And so helping the others will be in my own sake too, that will increase my good deeds to,and will help to end his test, By the orders of Allah. And I may do my best and it wouldn't work, Allah still will grant me. You know, even by the honest intention and the good feelings I well be rewarded by Allah even I hadn't any practical step in the direction for a reason or another.

 

and so we can add one more reason for your original quistion which is:

4- it is a test for the whole society to show integrity, mercy and real help

 

By the way, the above orders and many others led the Moslem nation to get up from ignorance and lead the world for 8 successive centuries. In the 10th century, the Moslem Doctors were able to perform surgeries in the eye for free in a free healthy hospitals.

 

In response to your question, I think that there is some punishment for some oppressors. We see societies rise up against dictators, and criminals are punished by legal systems or through the consequences of their poor decisions, but beyond that, no, I don't believe there is any difference between the oppressed and the oppressor. Both will die and that will be the end of them. I may not like it, I may wish that there was some additional measure that could reach those who have escaped (like karma?, not sure), but wishing that something was is not the same as it being so. I would like many things that are not and most likely never will be.

Then, you believe there no justification for these oppression actions in this world, which is as I believe 1000s of times larger in numbers than "the children" which even you have no other justification for it as well.

 

And he's is my question,

why you will try to help the needy, or accept to be oppressed, in case of no one will reward you/ or compensate you/ or unsuffecint of both?

and how, do you believe, that work in your society?

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I read this thread (just a bit) and these questions makes me wonder,

well does everyone taste bitter the same way.

Do we all suffer the same way?

Simply.

Do we all react to odd things the same way? Maybe not.

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