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I Just Converted...now What?

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Firstly, if you say the Bible has no relevance you have no reason to believe that Jesus was a prophet as there is nothing to validate him.

 

Secondly, again I point to the verse where Jesus said he was sending prophets not prophet.

 

Thirdly, as I am to understand it there is a verse where Allah says he is the greatest deceiver.

 

Online dictionary definition for deceive

 

So, I am to worship a God that bears false witness? This seems contrary to the very law of God. "Thou shalt bear no false witness" in other words thou shalt not lie

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But aren't there passages of God in the Bible sending a lying spirit to deceive people? I don't really see much of a difference here between the Christian God and the Islamic God. The two answers you are likely to receive are that first, God's deceptions serve a different/greater purpose than human deception, and second, that God's rules for mankind are not rules for God. Consider "You shall not kill". Surely God is not bound by this, we have numerous references in the Bible to God killing people.

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Thirdly, as I am to understand it there is a verse where Allah says he is the greatest deceiver.

 

<a href="you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_dictionary.reference(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/browse/deceiver" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Online dictionary definition for deceive</a>

 

So, I am to worship a God that bears false witness? This seems contrary to the very law of God. "Thou shalt bear no false witness" in other words thou shalt not lie

 

 

The Bible you read is not the Injeel, there is some truth in it as well as the falsehood.

 

If you were sincere about seeking the truth you wouldn't take what any Tom, ###### or Harry has to say about Islaam (especially when they know nothing about Islaam) as truth.

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But aren't there passages of God in the Bible sending a lying spirit to deceive people? I don't really see much of a difference here between the Christian God and the Islamic God. The two answers you are likely to receive are that first, God's deceptions serve a different/greater purpose than human deception, and second, that God's rules for mankind are not rules for God. Consider "You shall not kill". Surely God is not bound by this, we have numerous references in the Bible to God killing people.

 

Wow, that is the best response I have heard on that one. Still don't address the fact that Jesus said he was sending prophets, not prophet

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Wow, that is the best response I have heard on that one. Still don't address the fact that Jesus said he was sending prophets, not prophet

I believe you are going to have to weigh the Islamic claim that the Bible represents a corruption of the message of previous prophets (in the case of the Gospels, Jesus).

 

Also, if you are thinking about Matthew 23:34, I would draw your attention to a parallel passage in Luke 11:49 which clearly marks the dialogue in the (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Historical_present"]historical present tense[/url], and not a future prediction of multiple prophets.

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the problem with just writing off the gospels is that you erase any reason for believing that Jesus existed or any kind of evidence in which to validate any prophets after the Torah which means I should be Jewish not Muslim or Christian

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the problem with just writing off the gospels is that you erase any reason for believing that Jesus existed or any kind of evidence in which to validate any prophets after the Torah which means I should be Jewish not Muslim or Christian

Why is that? The Qur'an mentions Jesus and those around him with sufficient frequency that you shouldn't doubt he existed even if the Qur'an was the only text you depended on for information. Also, saying it was corrupted doesn't mean it disappeared. Most Muslims I know would gladly point out many passages in the Bible that are supportive of Islam. They would just caution you to use the Qur'an as a guidepost in order to distinguish between the original message and later modifications.

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Firstly, if you say the Bible has no relevance you have no reason to believe that Jesus was a prophet as there is nothing to validate him.

 

Never once will you find in my post where i said the Bible has no relevance.

 

Secondly, again I point to the verse where Jesus said he was sending prophets not prophet.

Name one Prophet that Jesus sent??

 

 

Thirdly, as I am to understand it there is a verse where Allah says he is the greatest deceiver.

 

 

So, I am to worship a God that bears false witness? This seems contrary to the very law of God. "Thou shalt bear no false witness" in other words thou shalt not lie

 

No you are not to understand that here is something for you to understand, the word used is mākirīna the decievers this is plural, the decievers or the planners. Allah is the best of those who plan evil, or Allah is the best of those who practice deceit, or Allah is the best of the decievers. Its not saying that Allah is a big deciever and he is the best deciever.The word right before deciever is khayru which means excellent in beauty and disposition, exalted in rank or quality or reputation, to be better than another person or thing. So the verse says in the arabic says literaly they decieved and decieved Allah and Allah is the KHAYRU of the decievers, . In other words Allah is KHAYRU exalted above the decievers.

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How quickly have you forgotten what God blessed you with, and fell at the first hurdle.

 

Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: "We believe," and will not be tested.

 

And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allah will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars, (although Allah knows all that before putting them to test). [29:2-3]

 

If you remained patient then you would have had the answers to your questions. Pray to God for guidance, and ask Him to forgive you, read the Qur'an. Be sincere, if you are sincere then Allaah will guide you back to the truth.

 

If you have any questions about Islaam then feel free to PM me and I'll try to help as much as I can.

He said, "... as my eyes were closed and my hands were together palms up I felt as if my soul was being lifted up somehow." i would like to bring your attention that our feelings make a wonderful servant/slave but a very poor leader. I have notice that Christians that convert to Islam usually have a testimony like I felt good inside or it was the only religion that made sense to me, But Muslims that convert to Christianity have a testimony that goes beyond feeling or metacognition. It is often like Paul's experience on the road to Demascus. Jesus knocked Him off his horse and asked Him "Why are you persecuting me?" Paul converted not out of feelings or his own human reasoning; he had been with Jesus. When this happens conversion to other than Christianity is an impossibility! Only God can reach a soul!

 

{Moderator note}

This post has violated forum rule #40. Action taken.

For more details, please read our (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?act=boardrules"]Forum Rules[/url].

Edited by the sad clown

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Thirdly, as I am to understand it there is a verse where Allah says he is the greatest deceiver.

1st it isn't translated to be "greatest deciever", but refer to what brother twosordali explained

 

2nd sickle, away of any thing, if you are a meek good person, and some evil bad guys are planning to hurt you while the god planned to decieve those evil guys and save you.

do you think that would be bad?

 

may Allah paln for us and save us from the evil

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I have notice that Christians that convert to Islam usually have a testimony like I felt good inside or it was the only religion that made sense to me, But Muslims that convert to Christianity have a testimony that goes beyond feeling or metacognition.

 

Is that why there are more converts to Islaam than to Christianity? No offence, but Christians are known for their blatant li... out of the ordinary imagination (no offence meant towards honest Christians). How many times have you heard "Jesus came to me last night and spoke to me!"... I remember a Christian on this forum several years ago... he would tell me Jesus spoke to him and gave him a solution to this and for that and blah blah blah... it was laughable.

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He said, "... as my eyes were closed and my hands were together palms up I felt as if my soul was being lifted up somehow." i would like to bring your attention that our feelings make a wonderful servant/slave but a very poor leader. I have notice that Christians that convert to Islam usually have a testimony like I felt good inside or it was the only religion that made sense to me, But Muslims that convert to Christianity have a testimony that goes beyond feeling or metacognition. It is often like Paul's experience on the road to Demascus. Jesus knocked Him off his horse and asked Him "Why are you persecuting me?" Paul converted not out of feelings or his own human reasoning; he had been with Jesus. When this happens conversion to other than Christianity is an impossibility! Only God can reach a soul!

 

aj4u, seeking the truth is a great thing, isn't it?

 

do you have any reasonable statistics how many moslems had metacongnitions a year?

and how many of christians find the truth in Islam?

 

and if those who find reality, truth, satisfaction and truth in Islam are 1000s or may by 10,000s times larger than the opposite. what could that mean for you?

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I thank all of you because of your challenging of my believes has forced me to read the Bible even more than before and now I realize that the great comforter that Jesus was speaking of was Paul as there was no way that he could appear to Paul on the road to Damascus as a glorious vision unless he had already left. I believe that Paul was the prophet, what was his message you say? His message was that salvation is for all the world including the gentiles and this salvation could be found through Jesus.

 

As to the claim about the corruption of the Bible, I find it hard to believe it is all that corrupted if you take away the King James Version and those that used it as a basis for retranslating. Bible's like the New International Version went back to the old Hebrew & Greek in order to properly translate. Also there are certain hidden sects of Christianity that can trace their roots back to the original Christians ( primarily in Africa ) and their understanding of Jesus is very similar to that of which is found today.

 

I will reply more later...

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1st it isn't translated to be "greatest deciever", but refer to what brother twosordali explained

 

2nd sickle, away of any thing, if you are a meek good person, and some evil bad guys are planning to hurt you while the god planned to decieve those evil guys and save you.

do you think that would be bad?

 

may Allah paln for us and save us from the evil

It means deceiver in Arabic. Now many Muslims admit this; so , why do you deny it? Why aren't Muslim consistant on the meaning of the Quran in its original language? How do you explain Allah making it look like Jesus died resulting in the deception of Billions of people's belief regarding His death and resurrection? My contention is the real deception is not getting them to believe He died, but getting them to believe He didn't; so, they would not trust in Jesus' life and death/resurrection for the salvation of their souls. The Bible states that the Devil is the father of lies. No one is better at deception than him. In my opinion, Satan is the best at deception not God! If God allows deception, it is to bring evil upon the heads of those who do evil and not to deceive all people of earth that Jesus died when He didn't!

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It means deceiver in Arabic. Now many Muslims admit this; so , why do you deny it? Why aren't Muslim consistant on the meaning of the Quran in its original language? How do you explain Allah making it look like Jesus died resulting in the deception of Billions of people's belief regarding His death and resurrection? My contention is the real deception is not getting them to believe He died, but getting them to believe He didn't; so, they would not trust in Jesus' life and death/resurrection for the salvation of their souls. The Bible states that the Devil is the father of lies. No one is better at deception than him. In my opinion, Satan is the best at deception not God! If God allows deception, it is to bring evil upon the heads of those who do evil and not to deceive all people of earth that Jesus died when He didn't!

 

No, the deception is for the Jews who wanted to kill Jesus (peace be upon him), and they think that their killing of Jesus must mean that Jesus was not the Messiah.

Edited by Abu Firdaws

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It means deceiver in Arabic. Now many Muslims admit this; so , why do you deny it? Why aren't Muslim consistant on the meaning of the Quran in its original language? How do you explain Allah making it look like Jesus died resulting in the deception of Billions of people's belief regarding His death and resurrection? My contention is the real deception is not getting them to believe He died, but getting them to believe He didn't; so, they would not trust in Jesus' life and death/resurrection for the salvation of their souls. The Bible states that the Devil is the father of lies. No one is better at deception than him. In my opinion, Satan is the best at deception not God! If God allows deception, it is to bring evil upon the heads of those who do evil and not to deceive all people of earth that Jesus died when He didn't!

do you believe that Quran is the truth?

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No, the deception is for the Jews who wanted to kill Jesus (peace be upon him), and they think that their killing of Jesus must mean that Jesus was not the Messiah.
So you are admitting that deception was involved? Then didn't Allah know what the future implications of this deception would be with some muliple billions of people believing it resulting in shirk punishable by hell fire forever?

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So you are admitting that deception was involved? Then didn't Allah know what the future implications of this deception would be with some muliple billions of people believing it resulting in shirk punishable by hell fire forever?

 

What on earth are you talking about? How does Jesus (peace be upon him) dying or not dying cause people to worship him? Please explain?!

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the foundation of my believes:

 

Yawhew was and is and will always be the creator God, Yawhew chose Abraham to birth a great nation called israel whom Yawhew called his bride, his land, his child. The Hebrews ( Jews btw are only one group of Hebrews if anyone actually reads the recounting of the tale of the tribes of israel. The Hebrews were chosen as the people of God through whom he would do his works and make his majesty known. Jesus is the messiah, he was conceived of immaculate birth. Jesus did in fact get crucified, was placed in a burial room and rose on the third day after which he spent a little over a month with his disciples before ascending into heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. Why do I believe that Jesus did get crucified...? Well frankly because it makes the most sense.

 

If the leaders of israel at that time ( the Pharisees ) would have known Jesus had not in fact been crucified they would have rioted and this is why the Romans went ahead with the crucifixion because the governor assigned over israel had already had several insurrections ( Pontius Pilate ) and if there was another one he could in fact lose his station as governor and quite possibly his life. Why would these individuals who hated Jesus so much ( later as Christianity began to spread this hatred would be joined between Romans and Hebrews alike ) not simply point out that in fact he never was crucified? They would have had first hand account of whether or not Jesus had taken the trip to golgotha. Simple validation of facts would have more than sufficed to end the massive growth of the then thought of cult known as followers of Christ.

 

If I am to write off the Bible ( which btw in protestant Christianity, especially in the south, includes the Old & New Testaments ) then there is no reason for me not to follow someone else. If I am to write off the Bible as some have suggested then I have no more reason to believe the Qur'an than say the 5 Vedas, the puranas, The Book of the Dead, the Thirteen Classics, the Kojiki, Tao Te Ching, or even the Book of Shadows.

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What on earth are you talking about? How does Jesus (peace be upon him) dying or not dying cause people to worship him? Please explain?!
It is not Just Jesus dying, but it is Jesus' dying for our sin as the Scriptures state in the Bible, but it is not just that alone; it is the belief that Jesus rose from the dead and the testimony of those that have seen it risking their lives to share it. It leads to the belief, IMO, that if Jesus was made to look like he died; it was also made to look like He rose from the dead. Christians worship Jesus because according to the Scriptures, He is the Word that God spoke all things into existence with.

This is not a partner it is God's Word according to the Scriptures!

Why don't you answer my questions?

Edited by aj4u

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ahem but uh Christians are never actually directed to 'worship' Jesus. We are simply told by Jesus, himself, to pray in his name and that the Father's glory might be known he will do it for us. We are not told to pray to Jesus but Jesus taught us to pray to the father and many a Christian will then at the end say, in Jesus name, amen. The only ones I know of that pray to Jesus instead of through Jesus as he instructed us is the Catholics for which I cannot help you because I am Christian & there are times I barely understand that lot of people

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Just because some people repeatedly talk about God who died,

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetharunyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/books/faith/did_not_die/jesus_did_not_die_01.php"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetharunyahya(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/books/faith/did_..._not_die_01.php[/url]

Edited by Absolute truth

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It leads to the belief, IMO, that if Jesus was made to look like he died; it was also made to look like He rose from the dead. Christians worship Jesus because according to the Scriptures, He is the Word that God spoke all things into existence with.

This is not a partner it is God's Word according to the Scriptures!

Why don't you answer my questions?

 

But Jesus (peace be upon him) did not call people to worship him, he called people to worship God. He made a clear distinction between him and God, you've already admitted that the Father and the son are not one in the same. If they are not one in the same yet you worship both, then you are worshipping two gods. And if you add the holy spirit to that, that makes three gods. The father, the son and the holy spirit are not all referring to the same thing, are they?

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Sorry, which question did I not answer?

Didn't Allah know what the future implications of this deception would be with some muliple billions of people believing it resulting in shirk punishable by hell fire forever?

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