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I Just Converted...now What?

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Didn't Allah know what the future implications of this deception would be with some muliple billions of people believing it resulting in shirk punishable by hell fire forever?

 

What deception? I've already told you that the death or non-death of Jesus (peace be upon him) does not lead people to worship Jesus.

 

It's like me asking you "Didn't God know that creating satan would lead multiple billions of people to hell forever?!" Uh, yes He did, but those people chose to listen to satan He didn't make them.

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PropellerAds

To everyone. This thread is a devolving into proselytizing for Christianity, criticizing Muslims and Christians, and insults all around. Please do not post in this thread any more. It would be better to start a new topic that refrains from these behaviors and respects the rules and purpose of this forum, which is the promotion of Islam through respectful dialogue and enlightened communication of the truths of Islam.

 

Any further posting in this thread that represents a continuation of the sort of negative behavior I mentioned will be reported.

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What deception? I've already told you that the death or non-death of Jesus (peace be upon him) does not lead people to worship Jesus.

 

It's like me asking you "Didn't God know that creating satan would lead multiple billions of people to hell forever?!" Uh, yes He did, but those people chose to listen to satan He didn't make them.

Exactly, very good analogy. Satan according to the Bible is the father of all deception and he would try to cause deception that would lead billions to hell. He wouldn't hesitate to masqurade as God or an angel of God either. No Muslim seems to think that he can do such a thing among those I speak with. Why don't you tell me what you think leads to people worshipping Jesus, because this obviously not what Satan wants us to do according to the Bible? The only way to stop Jesus worship is to get us to believe Jesus didn't die for our sin and rise from the dead. Satan must serve God's purpose or he wouldn't let him stick around. Angels were commanded to worship Jesus. Angels are greater beings than us on earth so go figure.

Peace

Edited by aj4u

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He wouldn't hesitate to masqurade as God or an angel of God either.

 

If satan was to masquerade as God, what would he do? Hmm... I'll name a few:

 

1. Set up partners with God, and turn them away from the God of Abraham and Moses (peace be upon them).

2. Have people believe that someone died for their sins, so that they can go around doing whatever they want.

3. Cause confusion amongst people by corrupting the scriptures.

 

What satan would not do:

 

1. Call towards One God., the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (peace be upon them).

2. Have people believe that no one died for their sins, and in order to have salvation one must strive to do good at all times. Satan would not prohibit music, alcohol, gambling, etc.

3. Have a scripture which is uncorrupted, contains no contradicts, and calls towards good.

 

The normal person who reads the Bible would never come to the conclusion that Jesus (peace be upon him) is God.

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In Matthew 4:1-11 ( the temptation of Jesus in the desert by Satan ) Satan actually directly asks Jesus to worship him and tries to tempt him to do this by offering him all the kingdoms of the world thus indicating that Satan desires worship

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If satan was to masquerade as God, what would he do? Hmm... I'll name a few:

 

1. Set up partners with God, and turn them away from the God of Abraham and Moses (peace be upon them).

2. Have people believe that someone died for their sins, so that they can go around doing whatever they want.

3. Cause confusion amongst people by corrupting the scriptures.

 

What satan would not do:

 

1. Call towards One God., the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (peace be upon them).

2. Have people believe that no one died for their sins, and in order to have salvation one must strive to do good at all times. Satan would not prohibit music, alcohol, gambling, etc.

3. Have a scripture which is uncorrupted, contains no contradicts, and calls towards good.

 

The normal person who reads the Bible would never come to the conclusion that Jesus (peace be upon him) is God.

 

I kindly direct your attention to:

 

Luke 1:26-38

 

26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.â€

 

29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.â€

 

34 “How will this be,†Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?â€

 

35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.â€

 

38 “I am the Lord’s servant,†Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.†Then the angel left her.

 

denote that Gabriel ( only mentioned in the book of Luke in the New Testament btw ) told Mary that the son of the Most High would be born through her, that the son of God would be born to her.

 

So your statement that the normal person who reads the Bible would not come to the conclusion that Jesus is God ( as you put it ) would be inaccurate as they would attest that he was the son of God and not just a son of God

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Exactly, very good analogy. Satan according to the Bible is the father of all deception and he would try to cause deception that would lead billions to hell. He wouldn't hesitate to masqurade as God or an angel of God either. No Muslim seems to think that he can do such a thing among those I speak with. Why don't you tell me what you think leads to people worshipping Jesus, because this obviously not what Satan wants us to do according to the Bible? The only way to stop Jesus worship is to get us to believe Jesus didn't die for our sin and rise from the dead. Satan must serve God's purpose or he wouldn't let him stick around. Angels were commanded to worship Jesus. Angels are greater beings than us on earth so go figure.

Peace

What good is it to ask a Muslim what leads people to worship Jesus if they do not agree with the account you have in the Bible? Obviously it isn't satan if they believed that the Bible as you have it is accurately the word of God, but they don't believe that, true? Of course they don't believe Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead. That is the Bible, a book that they hold to be corrupted. Why not argue your case on the basis of sources that Muslims do trust.

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I kindly direct your attention to:

 

Luke 1:26-38

 

26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”

 

29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

 

34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

 

35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.”

 

38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.

 

denote that Gabriel ( only mentioned in the book of Luke in the New Testament btw ) told Mary that the son of the Most High would be born through her, that the son of God would be born to her.

 

So your statement that the normal person who reads the Bible would not come to the conclusion that Jesus is God ( as you put it ) would be inaccurate as they would attest that he was the son of God and not just a son of God

 

And this proves that Jesus (peace be upon him) is God how? There are CLEAR verses which suggest that Jesus is not God, all you are bringing me are vague statements.

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John 14:7-10

 

John 10:30-38

 

Matthew 27:43

 

John 17:3-12

 

Luke 22:66-70

 

Daniel 7:13-14 ( one of my personal favorites as it answers that age old non Christian question as to why Jesus called himself the son of man )

 

Proverbs 30:4

 

Isaiah 9:6-7

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbiblegateway(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/"]An online Bible ( with option for any translation you prefer )[/url]

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What good is it to ask a Muslim what leads people to worship Jesus if they do not agree with the account you have in the Bible? Obviously it isn't satan if they believed that the Bible as you have it is accurately the word of God, but they don't believe that, true? Of course they don't believe Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead. That is the Bible, a book that they hold to be corrupted. Why not argue your case on the basis of sources that Muslims do trust.

How? We need prophets and scripture to confirm Islam; otherwise, Christians can't accept Islam. The burden is on Muslims to show Christians why we should believe the latter over the former Scriptures. Saying the Bible is corrupted doesn't cut it. If God couldn't protect what He said is established in heaven forever (the written word before Muhammmad was born) than why would we trust newer Scripture as being preserved by Allah? Muslims are telling us that mans' power to corrupted God's word in the past is stronger than God's power to protect from corruption today. God is the same yesterday, today and forever! Isn't He???

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How? We need prophets and scripture to confirm Islam; otherwise, Christians can't accept Islam. The burden is on Muslims to show Christians why we should believe the latter over the former Scriptures. Saying the Bible is corrupted doesn't cut it. If God couldn't protect what He said is established in heaven forever (the written word before Muhammmad was born) than why would we trust newer Scripture as being preserved by Allah? Muslims are telling us that mans' power to corrupted God's word in the past is stronger than God's power to protect from corruption today. God is the same yesterday, today and forever! Isn't He???

But they don't need to use your Bible to make such an argument. They can point to the veracity, prescience and immutability as proof of its divine nature. They would make arguments from its literary greatness and from the rationality of its decrees and the enlightenment of its prescriptions. That they can also carefully point to elements of your bible as support is good, but it is not necessary.

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But they don't need to use your Bible to make such an argument. They can point to the veracity, prescience and immutability as proof of its divine nature. They would make arguments from its literary greatness and from the rationality of its decrees and the enlightenment of its prescriptions. That they can also carefully point to elements of your bible as support is good, but it is not necessary.

But aren't you going against the Quran? Doesn't it say that previous prophets must confirm the newer ones? Do you know thhe verse I am referring to? And doesn't it ask us to challenge the Quran if there be any discrepancies?

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But aren't you going against the Quran? Doesn't it say that previous prophets must confirm the newer ones? Do you know thhe verse I am referring to? And doesn't it ask us to challenge the Quran if there be any discrepancies?

But if the only trustworthy extant testimony of these earlier prophets is in the Qur'an, then you have no recourse except for the Qur'an on the confirmation of previous prophets. Likewise, while it is fine to challenge the integrity of the Qur'an, you can't very well judge it by sources that have interpolated material of dubious source and veracity.

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But if the only trustworthy extant testimony of these earlier prophets is in the Qur'an, then you have no recourse except for the Qur'an on the confirmation of previous prophets. Likewise, while it is fine to challenge the integrity of the Qur'an, you can't very well judge it by sources that have interpolated material of dubious source and veracity.

If your referring to the Bible scholars know what the interpolations are. That doesn't mean wholesale corruption. Interpolation and translation errors are correctable. This is no reason for us Christians to disregard the Bible. That is a fearful thought!

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If your referring to the Bible scholars know what the interpolations are. That doesn't mean wholesale corruption. Interpolation and translation errors are correctable. This is no reason for us Christians to disregard the Bible. That is a fearful thought!

Well, I am not exactly talking about that, although Muslims will certainly seize upon such scholarship as additional proof of their claim. But honestly, they need look no further than the Qur'an. The Qur'an perfectly contains the word of God, so whatever is not in accord with it is by definition a corrupt passage. And what accords with the Qur'an is the remnants of the true Gospel and Torah. It is only fearful if you think what you are disregarded is the true word of God. If it is a deviation then it would be a fearful thing to cling to it.

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So let me see if I understand this accurately, the current argument is that the Bible has in-discrepancies & the Qur'an is today as it was in the past and as such should be followed? So the logic we are following now is if the religion remains the same & is unchanged over time we should follow it?

 

Assuming ( from a non-biased view point...momentarily ) that everything Muslims believe about the Bible is accurate it still fails to logically show any reason why anyone anywhere should follow the Qur'an or any legitimate reason why Islam is supposed to be from God as opposed to any other faith.

 

For example, technically speaking Norse has not changed over the years & is in fact the same today as it ever was. Does this now mean that I should start worshiping Odin? The words on the Norse religion has not been tampered with and can be found in original format. If we are talking about validation of source then perhaps Buddhism as the source is well known and a chain of credibility ( I believe that is the coin-term ) can be used to trace back who wrote it and when.

 

Technically speaking Scientology has a chain of credibility as well as they can trace back to who wrote the first book.

 

To me this current line of thinking sounds more like, this one bad, this one good. What evidence is there for following Islam?

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John 14:7-10

 

John 10:30-38

 

Matthew 27:43

 

John 17:3-12

 

Luke 22:66-70

 

Daniel 7:13-14 ( one of my personal favorites as it answers that age old non Christian question as to why Jesus called himself the son of man )

 

Proverbs 30:4

 

Isaiah 9:6-7

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbiblegateway(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/"]An online Bible ( with option for any translation you prefer )[/url]

 

I gave up after looking at the first two references you gave... because none of them said what you said. In fact they said the opposite of what you said, which I've come to expect now.

 

29 My Father is the one who gave them to me, and he is greater than all. No one can steal my sheep out of his hand. 30 The Father and I are one.”

 

31 Again the Jews there picked up stones to kill Jesus. 32 But he said to them, “The many wonderful things you have seen me do are from the Father. Which of these good things are you killing me for?”

 

33 They answered, “We are not killing you for any good thing you did. But you say things that insult God. You are only a man, but you say you are the same as God! That is why we are trying to kill you!”

 

34 Jesus answered, “It is written in your law that God said, ‘I said you are gods.’ [d] 35 This Scripture called those people gods—the people who received God’s message. And Scripture is always true. 36 So why do you accuse me of insulting God for saying, ‘I am God’s Son’? I am the one God chose and sent into the world. 37 If I don’t do what my Father does, then don’t believe what I say. 38 But if I do what my Father does, you should believe in what I do. You might not believe in me, but you should believe in the things I do. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”

 

Verse 29 says that the father is greater than all. 30 says that the father and I are one, which to me does not mean Jesus (peace be upon him) is God, or part of God otherwise we all all part of God because according to John 17:

 

20 “I pray not only for these followers but also for those who will believe in me because of their teaching. 21 Father, I pray that all who believe in me can be one. You are in me and I am in you. I pray that they can also be one in us. Then the world will believe that you sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me. I gave them this glory so that they can be one, just as you and I are one. 23 I will be in them, and you will be in me. So they will be completely one. Then the world will know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me.

 

So what do you mean when you say that God and Jesus (peace be upon him) are one?

 

What does verse 34 say? From what I understand if we are to take your interpretation of the verses then the Jews are also gods, isn't Jesus (peace be upon him) in this verse saying that he is not claiming to be God? Rather he is a god in the same way the Jews were referred to as gods?

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