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How To Refute Claims Allh(swt) Is Moon God

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  #465      

26th November 2011, 05:32 PM

HearerofFaith

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Who is Allah?

(Pre-Islamic Arabia)

The Muslims say that the God of the Bible, and the god of Islam, are one and the same God? But what are the origins of Allah. Did he come from the Bible? Or from ARABIAN PAGANISM?

The word "Allah" is a contraction of "Al-ilah," 'al' meaning "the" and "ilah" meaning 'god.' Early biographers said that "al-ilah" comes from 'El" or 'Elohim," meaning the God of the Bible but, "Early scholars attested the diffusion of this belief SOLELY TO CHRISTIAN AND JUDAIC INFLUENCES. BUT NOW a growing number of authors maintain that this idea [of Allah] had older roots IN ARABIA..." (Studies in Islam, Swartz, p.12, emphasis mine).

Ceasare Farah concludes: "There is NO REASON therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslim from the Christians and the Jews" (Islam, p.28, emphasis mine). We must look for the ORIGINS OF Allah AMONG THE ARABIAN DEITIES,and NOT from the Judeo-Christian Bible!

The Arabs had tribal gods in which they worshipped. Every tribe had their own God. "The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born was particularly devoted to Allah..." (Islamic Invasion, Morey, p.51, emphasis mine). Before Muhammad was EVER BORN, his tribe worshipped Allah, and he was the CHIEF GOD OF MECCA: "Its been pointed out that Mecca was in the control of the Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born" (ibid., pp.39-40). Since they were in control of Mecca, it was only right that their God was chief of the Kaaba in Mecca.

"In pre-Islamic days, called the Days of Ignorance, the religious background of the Arabs was pagan, and basically animistic. Through wells, trees, stones, caves, springs, and other natural objects man could make contact with the deity... At Mekka, Allah was the chief of the gods and THE SPECIAL DEITY OF THE QURAISH, THE PROPHET'S TRIBE. Allah had three daughters: " (Van Ess, John, Meet the Arab, New York, 1943, p. 29)

Zwemer writes: "But history establishes beyond the SHADOW OF A DOUBT that even the PAGAN ARABS BEFORE MUHAMMAD TIME, knew the CHIEF GOD BY THE NAME OF Allah...ilah is used for any god and Al-ilah (contracted to Allah, i.e, the god), was the name of the SUPREME. Among the Arabs this term denoted the CHIEF GOD of three hundred and sixty idols...As final evidence, we have the fact that centuries BEFORE Muhammad the Arabian Kaaba, the temple at Mecca, was called Beit Allah, the House of God..." (Muhammad is Mecca, pp.25-26, 31-36, emphasis mine).

Collier's Encyclopedia under "Allah" writes "...there were among the Arabs, long BEFORE THE EMERGENCE OF Islam worshippers of a supreme god known as Allah, and the Koran (13:17; 29:61; 31:24 [These show that the Pagan Arab and Muhammad worshipped the same Deity]) LEAVES LITTLE DOUBT that Meccans...recognized the Allah was creator and provider" (p.570, emphasis mine).

The Encyclopedia of Religion of Ethics under "Allah" writes, "The origin of this [Allah] goes back to PRE-ISLAMIC TIMES as Prof. Nokleke has shown...Muhammad found the Meccans believing in a supreme god whom they called Allah...with Allah however they associated minor deities [called] the daughters of Allah. MOHAMMED'S REFORM WAS TO ASSERT THE SOLITARY EXISTENCE OF Allah. The first article of the Muslim creed, therefore 'La-ilaha illa-Llahu-means only as addresses by him to the Meccans 'There exist no god except the one whom you ALREADY CALLED Allah" (Hastings, p.326, emphasis mine).

"Islam owes the term 'Allah to the HEATHEN ARABS...Muhammad DID NOT find it necessary to introduce an altogether novel deity but CONTEND HIMSELF OF RIDDING THE HEATHEN Allah OF HIS COMPANIONS [known as the daughters of Allah...Had he not been accustomed from his YOUTH to the idea of Allah as the supreme god in particular IN MECCA, it may all be doubted whether he would have come forward as a preacher of monotheism" (Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not A Muslim, p.42, emphasis mine).

"Historians like Vaqqidi have said Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave 27 names of pre-Islamic deities...Interestingly, not many Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka'ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Mohammed came. Some Muslims become angry when they are confronted with this fact. But history is not on their side. Pre-Islamic literature has proved this" (G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah?, Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994, pg. 134, emphasis added)

And Ceasare Farah concludes: "There were hundreds of such deities in Pagan Arabia, of all those mentioned, four appear to be most popularly revered ON THE EVE OF Islam: AL-UZZA, ALLAT, AND MANAT. All three female deities, popularly worshipped by the tribes of Hijaz, they were regarded as the DAUGHTERS OF Allah, THE GOD WHO HEADED THE ARABIAN PANTHEON WHEN MUHAMMAD BEGAN TO PREACH Allah WAS THE PARAMOUNT DEITY" (Islam, emphasis mine).

 

That's the argument how do I refute it? It's my aunt and uncle under screen names on a forum debating and I thought the argument was interesting.

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  #465      

26th November 2011, 05:32 PM

HearerofFaith

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Join Date: 21st November 2011

Location: Los Angeles CA

Posts: 35

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Who is Allah?

(Pre-Islamic Arabia)

The Muslims say that the God of the Bible, and the god of Islam, are one and the same God? But what are the origins of Allah. Did he come from the Bible? Or from ARABIAN PAGANISM?

The word "Allah" is a contraction of "Al-ilah," 'al' meaning "the" and "ilah" meaning 'god.' Early biographers said that "al-ilah" comes from 'El" or 'Elohim," meaning the God of the Bible but, "Early scholars attested the diffusion of this belief SOLELY TO CHRISTIAN AND JUDAIC INFLUENCES. BUT NOW a growing number of authors maintain that this idea [of Allah] had older roots IN ARABIA..." (Studies in Islam, Swartz, p.12, emphasis mine).

Ceasare Farah concludes: "There is NO REASON therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslim from the Christians and the Jews" (Islam, p.28, emphasis mine). We must look for the ORIGINS OF Allah AMONG THE ARABIAN DEITIES,and NOT from the Judeo-Christian Bible!

The Arabs had tribal gods in which they worshipped. Every tribe had their own God. "The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born was particularly devoted to Allah..." (Islamic Invasion, Morey, p.51, emphasis mine). Before Muhammad was EVER BORN, his tribe worshipped Allah, and he was the CHIEF GOD OF MECCA: "Its been pointed out that Mecca was in the control of the Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born" (ibid., pp.39-40). Since they were in control of Mecca, it was only right that their God was chief of the Kaaba in Mecca.

"In pre-Islamic days, called the Days of Ignorance, the religious background of the Arabs was pagan, and basically animistic. Through wells, trees, stones, caves, springs, and other natural objects man could make contact with the deity... At Mekka, Allah was the chief of the gods and THE SPECIAL DEITY OF THE QURAISH, THE PROPHET'S TRIBE. Allah had three daughters: " (Van Ess, John, Meet the Arab, New York, 1943, p. 29)

Zwemer writes: "But history establishes beyond the SHADOW OF A DOUBT that even the PAGAN ARABS BEFORE MUHAMMAD TIME, knew the CHIEF GOD BY THE NAME OF Allah...ilah is used for any god and Al-ilah (contracted to Allah, i.e, the god), was the name of the SUPREME. Among the Arabs this term denoted the CHIEF GOD of three hundred and sixty idols...As final evidence, we have the fact that centuries BEFORE Muhammad the Arabian Kaaba, the temple at Mecca, was called Beit Allah, the House of God..." (Muhammad is Mecca, pp.25-26, 31-36, emphasis mine).

Collier's Encyclopedia under "Allah" writes "...there were among the Arabs, long BEFORE THE EMERGENCE OF Islam worshippers of a supreme god known as Allah, and the Koran (13:17; 29:61; 31:24 [These show that the Pagan Arab and Muhammad worshipped the same Deity]) LEAVES LITTLE DOUBT that Meccans...recognized the Allah was creator and provider" (p.570, emphasis mine).

The Encyclopedia of Religion of Ethics under "Allah" writes, "The origin of this [Allah] goes back to PRE-ISLAMIC TIMES as Prof. Nokleke has shown...Muhammad found the Meccans believing in a supreme god whom they called Allah...with Allah however they associated minor deities [called] the daughters of Allah. MOHAMMED'S REFORM WAS TO ASSERT THE SOLITARY EXISTENCE OF Allah. The first article of the Muslim creed, therefore 'La-ilaha illa-Llahu-means only as addresses by him to the Meccans 'There exist no god except the one whom you ALREADY CALLED Allah" (Hastings, p.326, emphasis mine).

"Islam owes the term 'Allah to the HEATHEN ARABS...Muhammad DID NOT find it necessary to introduce an altogether novel deity but CONTEND HIMSELF OF RIDDING THE HEATHEN Allah OF HIS COMPANIONS [known as the daughters of Allah...Had he not been accustomed from his YOUTH to the idea of Allah as the supreme god in particular IN MECCA, it may all be doubted whether he would have come forward as a preacher of monotheism" (Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not A Muslim, p.42, emphasis mine).

"Historians like Vaqqidi have said Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave 27 names of pre-Islamic deities...Interestingly, not many Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka'ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Mohammed came. Some Muslims become angry when they are confronted with this fact. But history is not on their side. Pre-Islamic literature has proved this" (G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah?, Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994, pg. 134, emphasis added)

And Ceasare Farah concludes: "There were hundreds of such deities in Pagan Arabia, of all those mentioned, four appear to be most popularly revered ON THE EVE OF Islam: AL-UZZA, ALLAT, AND MANAT. All three female deities, popularly worshipped by the tribes of Hijaz, they were regarded as the DAUGHTERS OF Allah, THE GOD WHO HEADED THE ARABIAN PANTHEON WHEN MUHAMMAD BEGAN TO PREACH Allah WAS THE PARAMOUNT DEITY" (Islam, emphasis mine).

 

That's the argument how do I refute it? It's my aunt and uncle under screen names on a forum debating and I thought the argument was interesting.

I find this interesting because it is also what I've heard, and when I look at Pre Islamic history, I can see that what you say is founded, but I never heard a good argument or defense for it. Why do Muslims allow a moon on their places of worship if this is not a fact?

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Here is a link to help you. There are a lot of articles there so you can read through them.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgoogle(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/search?q=moon-god&domains=you are not allowed to post links yetislamic-awareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)&sitesearch=you are not allowed to post links yetislamic-awareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgoogle(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/search?q=moon-god&am...c-awareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)[/url]

 

To give a short answer, yes, Allah was worshipped before Muhammad (pbuh) arrived. This is not a revelation. The Qur'an itself says that the Pagans believed in Allah. Of course it also says that they associated partners with Him (that's why it is called Shirk), ascribed daughters to Him, denied the Hereafter, invented lies about God etc. but there is no doubt that they also believed in Allah. Allah was the Creator to them, the all-Powerful God whom they approached through intermediaries by worshipping these intermediaries.

 

So, how did the Pagan Arabs also know Allah? Because they descended from Abraham and Ismael (pbut) who taught them the worship of Allah and built the House of Allah in Mecca. The case of the Pagan Arabs is analogous to that of the israelites. They also used to have idols and other gods whom they worshipped in the Temple of God.

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Why do Muslims allow a moon on their places of worship if this is not a fact?

 

The crescent moon came long after the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and his companions (ra) didn't have a symbol. The only symbol they had was two flags, one black and one white, which had the words "laa ilaaha illa Allah" (no god but Allah) written on them. The Ottomans, who came much later, adopted the crescent as their symbol after they conquered Constantinople. The city of Constaninople, a Christian city, used the crescent. Most Masjids I have been to don't have a crescent. In fact, I haven't seen it in any Masjid, much less prayed to like Christians do with a cross. It is not a symbol to us like the cross is to the Christians. In the present day, it is mostly non-Muslims who use the crescent when they use symbols to represent a religion. The crescent moon as a symbol has got no connection with the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

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  #465      

26th November 2011, 05:32 PM

HearerofFaith

Newbie

 

 

 

Join Date: 21st November 2011

Location: Los Angeles CA

Posts: 35

Blessings: 542 [bless]

Reps: 103,636,109,540,246 (power: 103,636,109,541)

Who is Allah?

(Pre-Islamic Arabia)

The Muslims say that the God of the Bible, and the god of Islam, are one and the same God? But what are the origins of Allah. Did he come from the Bible? Or from ARABIAN PAGANISM?

The word "Allah" is a contraction of "Al-ilah," 'al' meaning "the" and "ilah" meaning 'god.' Early biographers said that "al-ilah" comes from 'El" or 'Elohim," meaning the God of the Bible but, "Early scholars attested the diffusion of this belief SOLELY TO CHRISTIAN AND JUDAIC INFLUENCES. BUT NOW a growing number of authors maintain that this idea [of Allah] had older roots IN ARABIA..." (Studies in Islam, Swartz, p.12, emphasis mine).

Ceasare Farah concludes: "There is NO REASON therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslim from the Christians and the Jews" (Islam, p.28, emphasis mine). We must look for the ORIGINS OF Allah AMONG THE ARABIAN DEITIES,and NOT from the Judeo-Christian Bible!

The Arabs had tribal gods in which they worshipped. Every tribe had their own God. "The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born was particularly devoted to Allah..." (Islamic Invasion, Morey, p.51, emphasis mine). Before Muhammad was EVER BORN, his tribe worshipped Allah, and he was the CHIEF GOD OF MECCA: "Its been pointed out that Mecca was in the control of the Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born" (ibid., pp.39-40). Since they were in control of Mecca, it was only right that their God was chief of the Kaaba in Mecca.

"In pre-Islamic days, called the Days of Ignorance, the religious background of the Arabs was pagan, and basically animistic. Through wells, trees, stones, caves, springs, and other natural objects man could make contact with the deity... At Mekka, Allah was the chief of the gods and THE SPECIAL DEITY OF THE QURAISH, THE PROPHET'S TRIBE. Allah had three daughters: " (Van Ess, John, Meet the Arab, New York, 1943, p. 29)

Zwemer writes: "But history establishes beyond the SHADOW OF A DOUBT that even the PAGAN ARABS BEFORE MUHAMMAD TIME, knew the CHIEF GOD BY THE NAME OF Allah...ilah is used for any god and Al-ilah (contracted to Allah, i.e, the god), was the name of the SUPREME. Among the Arabs this term denoted the CHIEF GOD of three hundred and sixty idols...As final evidence, we have the fact that centuries BEFORE Muhammad the Arabian Kaaba, the temple at Mecca, was called Beit Allah, the House of God..." (Muhammad is Mecca, pp.25-26, 31-36, emphasis mine).

Collier's Encyclopedia under "Allah" writes "...there were among the Arabs, long BEFORE THE EMERGENCE OF Islam worshippers of a supreme god known as Allah, and the Koran (13:17; 29:61; 31:24 [These show that the Pagan Arab and Muhammad worshipped the same Deity]) LEAVES LITTLE DOUBT that Meccans...recognized the Allah was creator and provider" (p.570, emphasis mine).

The Encyclopedia of Religion of Ethics under "Allah" writes, "The origin of this [Allah] goes back to PRE-ISLAMIC TIMES as Prof. Nokleke has shown...Muhammad found the Meccans believing in a supreme god whom they called Allah...with Allah however they associated minor deities [called] the daughters of Allah. MOHAMMED'S REFORM WAS TO ASSERT THE SOLITARY EXISTENCE OF Allah. The first article of the Muslim creed, therefore 'La-ilaha illa-Llahu-means only as addresses by him to the Meccans 'There exist no god except the one whom you ALREADY CALLED Allah" (Hastings, p.326, emphasis mine).

"Islam owes the term 'Allah to the HEATHEN ARABS...Muhammad DID NOT find it necessary to introduce an altogether novel deity but CONTEND HIMSELF OF RIDDING THE HEATHEN Allah OF HIS COMPANIONS [known as the daughters of Allah...Had he not been accustomed from his YOUTH to the idea of Allah as the supreme god in particular IN MECCA, it may all be doubted whether he would have come forward as a preacher of monotheism" (Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not A Muslim, p.42, emphasis mine).

"Historians like Vaqqidi have said Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave 27 names of pre-Islamic deities...Interestingly, not many Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka'ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Mohammed came. Some Muslims become angry when they are confronted with this fact. But history is not on their side. Pre-Islamic literature has proved this" (G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah?, Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994, pg. 134, emphasis added)

And Ceasare Farah concludes: "There were hundreds of such deities in Pagan Arabia, of all those mentioned, four appear to be most popularly revered ON THE EVE OF Islam: AL-UZZA, ALLAT, AND MANAT. All three female deities, popularly worshipped by the tribes of Hijaz, they were regarded as the DAUGHTERS OF Allah, THE GOD WHO HEADED THE ARABIAN PANTHEON WHEN MUHAMMAD BEGAN TO PREACH Allah WAS THE PARAMOUNT DEITY" (Islam, emphasis mine).

 

That's the argument how do I refute it? It's my aunt and uncle under screen names on a forum debating and I thought the argument was interesting.

But wasn't it Hubal who was considered the moon god in pre-islamic times? What does Alliah have to do with Hubal? Are you sure you want to post this information on an Islamic site? It seems well researched on your part though, but I say this because it wouldn't help my faith if I were Muslim! But I would like to hear what you know of Hubal

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The crescent moon came long after the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and his companions (ra) didn't have a symbol. The only symbol they had was two flags, one black and one white, which had the words "laa ilaaha illa Allah" (no god but Allah) written on them. The Ottomans, who came much later, adopted the crescent as their symbol after they conquered Constantinople. The city of Constaninople, a Christian city, used the crescent. Most Masjids I have been to don't have a crescent. In fact, I haven't seen it in any Masjid, much less prayed to like Christians do with a cross. It is not a symbol to us like the cross is to the Christians. In the present day, it is mostly non-Muslims who use the crescent when they use symbols to represent a religion. The crescent moon as a symbol has got no connection with the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Oh, I see. so it wasn't during pre-islamic times that influence it. So can you shed any light on what chelsea89 shared?

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It seems to me that the above was written by somebody who is of a Jewish (since you mentioned being Jewish) or Christian background since he uses a capital letter for the God of the Bible and a lower capital for the God of Islam. I think what a lot of these people forget is that these same excact arguements can be used against the God of the Bible. In fact, they are used by secular scholarship. Secular scholarship claims that the God of the Bible was a god among many others until it finally evolved into the monotheistic God over centuries. Where do they get the evidence? No need to look further than the Bible itself. The Bible states that the israelites worshipped other gods along side God. It claims that greats such as Solomon (pbuh) also used to set up places of worship for other gods. It says that the kings of Judah and israel instituted polytheism in the Temple and their subjects followed suit. One particular king of israel set up two golden calfs and infamously declared, "israel, these are your gods who took you out of Egypt", and the people followed suit in worshipping them etc. The Bible is replete with talks about idolatry and polytheism.

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Oh, I see. so it wasn't during pre-islamic times that influence it. So can you shed any light on what chelsea89 shared?

 

I did in my first reply in this thread:

 

"Here is a link to help you. There are a lot of articles there so you can read through them.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgoogle(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/search?q=moon-god&am...c-awareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgoogle(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/search?q=moon-god&am...c-awareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)[/url]

 

To give a short answer, yes, Allah was worshipped before Muhammad (pbuh) arrived. This is not a revelation. The Qur'an itself says that the Pagans believed in Allah. Of course it also says that they associated partners with Him (that's why it is called Shirk), ascribed daughters to Him, denied the Hereafter, invented lies about God etc. but there is no doubt that they also believed in Allah. Allah was the Creator to them, the all-Powerful God whom they approached through intermediaries by worshipping these intermediaries.

 

So, how did the Pagan Arabs also know Allah? Because they descended from Abraham and Ismael (pbut) who taught them the worship of Allah and built the House of Allah in Mecca. The case of the Pagan Arabs is analogous to that of the israelites. They also used to have idols and other gods whom they worshipped in the Temple of God."

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But wasn't it Hubal who was considered the moon god in pre-islamic times? What does Alliah have to do with Hubal? Are you sure you want to post this information on an Islamic site? It seems well researched on your part though, but I say this because it wouldn't help my faith if I were Muslim! But I would like to hear what you know of Hubal

 

Allah has got nothing to do with Hubal, but even Hubal wasn't considered a moon god.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamic-awareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Quran/Sources/Allah/hubal.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamic-awareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Quran/Sou...llah/hubal.html[/url]

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Here is a link to help you. There are a lot of articles there so you can read through them.

 

you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgoogle(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/search?q=moon-god&am...c-awareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)

 

To give a short answer, yes, Allah was worshipped before Muhammad (pbuh) arrived. This is not a revelation. The Qur'an itself says that the Pagans believed in Allah. Of course it also says that they associated partners with Him (that's why it is called Shirk), ascribed daughters to Him, denied the Hereafter, invented lies about God etc. but there is no doubt that they also believed in Allah. Allah was the Creator to them, the all-Powerful God whom they approached through intermediaries by worshipping these intermediaries.

 

So, how did the Pagan Arabs also know Allah? Because they descended from Abraham and Ismael (pbut) who taught them the worship of Allah and built the House of Allah in Mecca. The case of the Pagan Arabs is analogous to that of the israelites. They also used to have idols and other gods whom they worshipped in the Temple of God.

But wasn't the prophet Muhammad the one to mention the flying cranes whose interecession was hoped for and later to be considered Satanic verses? So, this statement of Ceasare Farah is true or not true to you: "There is NO REASON therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslim from the Christians and the Jews" (Islam, p.28...). We must look for the ORIGINS OF Allah AMONG THE ARABIAN DEITIES,and NOT from the Judeo-Christian Bible!"

So althought Jews, Christians and Muslims share the same prophets with the exception of Muhammad, they don't share the same deity or so they in your opinion?

Are there any books of the Bible you consider to be without flaws?

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But wasn't the prophet Muhammad the one to mention the flying cranes whose interecession was hoped for and later to be considered Satanic verses?

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamic-awareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Polemics/sverses.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetislamic-awareness(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/Polemics/sverses.html[/url]

 

So, this statement of Ceasare Farah is true or not true to you: "There is NO REASON therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslim from the Christians and the Jews" (Islam, p.28...). We must look for the ORIGINS OF Allah AMONG THE ARABIAN DEITIES,and NOT from the Judeo-Christian Bible!"

So althought Jews, Christians and Muslims share the same prophets with the exception of Muhammad, they don't share the same deity or so they in your opinion?

Are there any books of the Bible you consider to be without flaws?

 

Yes, I think that statement by Farah is true. The Arabs got the concept of Allah from their ancestors Abraham and Ismael (pbut). They didn't get it from the Jews and the Christians nor the Bible.

 

No, the Muslims, Jews and Christians do share the same Deity although the Jews and Christians hold certain false beliefs about Him and associate partners with Him (like Jesus).

 

The authencity of all the books of the Bible is in doubt. There things which are obviously false, like the idea that Jesus (pbuh) is the Son of God or God. Then there are things which are affirmed. However, most of it cannot really be denied nor confirmed because it isn't directly refuted or confirmed in Islamic information.

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There are verses from Qur'an which easily refute that stupid moon god claim.

[using large font size is not allowed]

 

041.037 æóãöäú ÂíóÇÊöåö Çááóøíúáõ æóÇáäóøåóÇÑõ æóÇáÔóøãúÓõ æóÇáúÞóãóÑõ áÇ ÊóÓúÌõÏõæÇ áöáÔóøãúÓö æóáÇ áöáúÞóãóÑö æóÇÓúÌõÏõæÇ áöáóøåö ÇáóøÐöí ÎóáóÞóåõäóø Åöäú ßõäúÊõãú ÅöíóøÇåõ ÊóÚúÈõÏõæäó[using large font size is not allowed]

 

041.037 Wamin [a]y[a]tihi allaylu wa(al)nnah[a]ru wa(al)shshamsu wa(a)lqamaru l[a] tasjudoo li(l)shshamsi wal[a] lilqamari wa(o)sjudoo lill[a]hi ala[th]ee khalaqahunna in kuntum iyy[a]hu taAAbudoon(a)

 

041.037 Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Adore not the sun and the moon, but adore Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.

Al-Qur'an, 041.037 (Fussilat [Explained in Detail])

 

 

 

112.001 Þõáú åõæó Çááóøåõ ÃóÍóÏñ[using large font size is not allowed]

112.001 Qul huwa All[a]hu a[h]ad(un)

112.001 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

 

112.002 Çááóøåõ ÇáÕóøãóÏõ[using large font size is not allowed]

112.002 All[a]hu a(l)[ss]amad(u)

112.002 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

 

112.003 áóãú íóáöÏú æóáóãú íõæáóÏú[using large font size is not allowed]

112.003 Lam yalid walam yoolad(u)

112.003 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

 

112.004 æóáóãú íóßõäú áóåõ ßõÝõæðÇ ÃóÍóÏñ[using large font size is not allowed]

112.004 Walam yakun lahu kufuwan a[h]ad(un)

112.004 And there is none like unto Him.

 

Al-Qur'an, 112.001-004 (Al-Ikhlas [sincerity])

Edited by Saracen of 21st Century

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there is NO such thing as moon god.....the correct is moon GODDESS!!! Moon is associated with female and fertility in every ancient pagan religion. Egyptian has Isis, Greek has Diana. Telling the "moon god" itself is already a mistake, LOL :sl:

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Jews settled in Arabia during the turmoils of 7th/6th century BC upheavals in israel. So in Arabia there were Jews as well as pagans. And, er ... , Ishmael being from Abraham ...

 

Polemics such as Allaah is a moon god(ess!!) are silly.

 

It is actually clear that the true worship of Allaah is older than polytheism.

 

For example, Allaah's Light is described as being brighter than the sun. So some people then worshipped the sun in ignorance. Why else worship the sun?

 

The angelic beings are described as having features of various animals, although in reality they have no fixed form and these descriptions are used to convey inner meanings. From this cow worship began. Were people eating beef one day, and then someone came along the next day saying that the cow is sacred without any reference? Their reference must have been the descriptions of the visions of the true believers.

 

Richard

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 #465   Â

26th November 2011, 05:32 PM

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Who is Allah?

(Pre-Islamic Arabia)

The Muslims say that the God of the Bible, and the god of Islam, are one and the same God? But what are the origins of Allah. Did he come from the Bible? Or from ARABIAN PAGANISM?

The word "Allah" is a contraction of "Al-ilah," 'al' meaning "the" and "ilah" meaning 'god.' Early biographers said that "al-ilah" comes from 'El" or 'Elohim," meaning the God of the Bible but, "Early scholars attested the diffusion of this belief SOLELY TO CHRISTIAN AND JUDAIC INFLUENCES. BUT NOW a growing number of authors maintain that this idea [of Allah] had older roots IN ARABIA..." (Studies in Islam, Swartz, p.12, emphasis mine).

Ceasare Farah concludes: "There is NO REASON therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslim from the Christians and the Jews" (Islam, p.28, emphasis mine). We must look for the ORIGINS OF Allah AMONG THE ARABIAN DEITIES,and NOT from the Judeo-Christian Bible!

The Arabs had tribal gods in which they worshipped. Every tribe had their own God. "The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born was particularly devoted to Allah..." (Islamic Invasion, Morey, p.51, emphasis mine). Before Muhammad was EVER BORN, his tribe worshipped Allah, and he was the CHIEF GOD OF MECCA: "Its been pointed out that Mecca was in the control of the Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born" (ibid., pp.39-40). Since they were in control of Mecca, it was only right that their God was chief of the Kaaba in Mecca.

"In pre-Islamic days, called the Days of Ignorance, the religious background of the Arabs was pagan, and basically animistic. Through wells, trees, stones, caves, springs, and other natural objects man could make contact with the deity... At Mekka, Allah was the chief of the gods and THE SPECIAL DEITY OF THE QURAISH, THE PROPHET'S TRIBE. Allah had three daughters: " (Van Ess, John, Meet the Arab, New York, 1943, p. 29)

Zwemer writes: "But history establishes beyond the SHADOW OF A DOUBT that even the PAGAN ARABS BEFORE MUHAMMAD TIME, knew the CHIEF GOD BY THE NAME OF Allah...ilah is used for any god and Al-ilah (contracted to Allah, i.e, the god), was the name of the SUPREME. Among the Arabs this term denoted the CHIEF GOD of three hundred and sixty idols...As final evidence, we have the fact that centuries BEFORE Muhammad the Arabian Kaaba, the temple at Mecca, was called Beit Allah, the House of God..." (Muhammad is Mecca, pp.25-26, 31-36, emphasis mine).

Collier's Encyclopedia under "Allah" writes "...there were among the Arabs, long BEFORE THE EMERGENCE OF Islam worshippers of a supreme god known as Allah, and the Koran (13:17; 29:61; 31:24 [These show that the Pagan Arab and Muhammad worshipped the same Deity]) LEAVES LITTLE DOUBT that Meccans...recognized the Allah was creator and provider" (p.570, emphasis mine).

The Encyclopedia of Religion of Ethics under "Allah" writes, "The origin of this [Allah] goes back to PRE-ISLAMIC TIMES as Prof. Nokleke has shown...Muhammad found the Meccans believing in a supreme god whom they called Allah...with Allah however they associated minor deities [called] the daughters of Allah. MOHAMMED'S REFORM WAS TO ASSERT THE SOLITARY EXISTENCE OF Allah. The first article of the Muslim creed, therefore 'La-ilaha illa-Llahu-means only as addresses by him to the Meccans 'There exist no god except the one whom you ALREADY CALLED Allah" (Hastings, p.326, emphasis mine).

"Islam owes the term 'Allah to the HEATHEN ARABS...Muhammad DID NOT find it necessary to introduce an altogether novel deity but CONTEND HIMSELF OF RIDDING THE HEATHEN Allah OF HIS COMPANIONS [known as the daughters of Allah...Had he not been accustomed from his YOUTH to the idea of Allah as the supreme god in particular IN MECCA, it may all be doubted whether he would have come forward as a preacher of monotheism" (Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not A Muslim, p.42, emphasis mine).

"Historians like Vaqqidi have said Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave 27 names of pre-Islamic deities...Interestingly, not many Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka'ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Mohammed came. Some Muslims become angry when they are confronted with this fact. But history is not on their side. Pre-Islamic literature has proved this" (G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah?, Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994, pg. 134, emphasis added)

And Ceasare Farah concludes: "There were hundreds of such deities in Pagan Arabia, of all those mentioned, four appear to be most popularly revered ON THE EVE OF Islam: AL-UZZA, ALLAT, AND MANAT. All three female deities, popularly worshipped by the tribes of Hijaz, they were regarded as the DAUGHTERS OF Allah, THE GOD WHO HEADED THE ARABIAN PANTHEON WHEN MUHAMMAD BEGAN TO PREACH Allah WAS THE PARAMOUNT DEITY" (Islam, emphasis mine).

 

That's the argument how do I refute it? It's my aunt and uncle under screen names on a forum debating and I thought the argument was interesting.

 #465   Â

26th November 2011, 05:32 PM

HearerofFaith

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Â

Join Date: 21st November 2011

Location: Los Angeles CA

Posts: 35

Blessings: 542 [bless]

Reps: 103,636,109,540,246 (power: 103,636,109,541)

 

 

Who is Allah?

(Pre-Islamic Arabia)

The Muslims say that the God of the Bible, and the god of Islam, are one and the same God? But what are the origins of Allah. Did he come from the Bible? Or from ARABIAN PAGANISM?

The word "Allah" is a contraction of "Al-ilah," 'al' meaning "the" and "ilah" meaning 'god.' Early biographers said that "al-ilah" comes from 'El" or 'Elohim," meaning the God of the Bible but, "Early scholars attested the diffusion of this belief SOLELY TO CHRISTIAN AND JUDAIC INFLUENCES. BUT NOW a growing number of authors maintain that this idea [of Allah] had older roots IN ARABIA..." (Studies in Islam, Swartz, p.12, emphasis mine).

Ceasare Farah concludes: "There is NO REASON therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslim from the Christians and the Jews" (Islam, p.28, emphasis mine). We must look for the ORIGINS OF Allah AMONG THE ARABIAN DEITIES,and NOT from the Judeo-Christian Bible!

The Arabs had tribal gods in which they worshipped. Every tribe had their own God. "The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born was particularly devoted to Allah..." (Islamic Invasion, Morey, p.51, emphasis mine). Before Muhammad was EVER BORN, his tribe worshipped Allah, and he was the CHIEF GOD OF MECCA: "Its been pointed out that Mecca was in the control of the Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born" (ibid., pp.39-40). Since they were in control of Mecca, it was only right that their God was chief of the Kaaba in Mecca.

"In pre-Islamic days, called the Days of Ignorance, the religious background of the Arabs was pagan, and basically animistic. Through wells, trees, stones, caves, springs, and other natural objects man could make contact with the deity... At Mekka, Allah was the chief of the gods and THE SPECIAL DEITY OF THE QURAISH, THE PROPHET'S TRIBE. Allah had three daughters: " (Van Ess, John, Meet the Arab, New York, 1943, p. 29)

Zwemer writes: "But history establishes beyond the SHADOW OF A DOUBT that even the PAGAN ARABS BEFORE MUHAMMAD TIME, knew the CHIEF GOD BY THE NAME OF Allah...ilah is used for any god and Al-ilah (contracted to Allah, i.e, the god), was the name of the SUPREME. Among the Arabs this term denoted the CHIEF GOD of three hundred and sixty idols...As final evidence, we have the fact that centuries BEFORE Muhammad the Arabian Kaaba, the temple at Mecca, was called Beit Allah, the House of God..." (Muhammad is Mecca, pp.25-26, 31-36, emphasis mine).

Collier's Encyclopedia under "Allah" writes "...there were among the Arabs, long BEFORE THE EMERGENCE OF Islam worshippers of a supreme god known as Allah, and the Koran (13:17; 29:61; 31:24 [These show that the Pagan Arab and Muhammad worshipped the same Deity]) LEAVES LITTLE DOUBT that Meccans...recognized the Allah was creator and provider" (p.570, emphasis mine).

The Encyclopedia of Religion of Ethics under "Allah" writes, "The origin of this [Allah] goes back to PRE-ISLAMIC TIMES as Prof. Nokleke has shown...Muhammad found the Meccans believing in a supreme god whom they called Allah...with Allah however they associated minor deities [called] the daughters of Allah. MOHAMMED'S REFORM WAS TO ASSERT THE SOLITARY EXISTENCE OF Allah. The first article of the Muslim creed, therefore 'La-ilaha illa-Llahu-means only as addresses by him to the Meccans 'There exist no god except the one whom you ALREADY CALLED Allah" (Hastings, p.326, emphasis mine).

"Islam owes the term 'Allah to the HEATHEN ARABS...Muhammad DID NOT find it necessary to introduce an altogether novel deity but CONTEND HIMSELF OF RIDDING THE HEATHEN Allah OF HIS COMPANIONS [known as the daughters of Allah...Had he not been accustomed from his YOUTH to the idea of Allah as the supreme god in particular IN MECCA, it may all be doubted whether he would have come forward as a preacher of monotheism" (Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not A Muslim, p.42, emphasis mine).

"Historians like Vaqqidi have said Allah was actually the chief of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave 27 names of pre-Islamic deities...Interestingly, not many Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka'ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Mohammed came. Some Muslims become angry when they are confronted with this fact. But history is not on their side. Pre-Islamic literature has proved this" (G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah?, Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994, pg. 134, emphasis added)

And Ceasare Farah concludes: "There were hundreds of such deities in Pagan Arabia, of all those mentioned, four appear to be most popularly revered ON THE EVE OF Islam: AL-UZZA, ALLAT, AND MANAT. All three female deities, popularly worshipped by the tribes of Hijaz, they were regarded as the DAUGHTERS OF Allah, THE GOD WHO HEADED THE ARABIAN PANTHEON WHEN MUHAMMAD BEGAN TO PREACH Allah WAS THE PARAMOUNT DEITY" (Islam, emphasis mine).

 

That's the argument how do I refute it? It's my aunt and uncle under screen names on a forum debating and I thought the argument was interesting.

Refuting the allegation that Allah is pagan moon god:

 

The Muslims though they don’t call themselves Christians are the actual followers of the Christ Jesus pbuh and those lie in religion and about God we should agree they are not true followers of the Christ pbuh and are not candidate to salvation because the Kingdome of God is not prepared for liars, If Allah is a pagan moon god then how can we explain the followings?:

 

Why in the Arabic bible God translate into Allah? Now Christian Arabic bible will be full of pagan moon gods! because in the Arabic KJV for example this moon god is mentioned in the NT more than 1300 times!! Like in mark 10:18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.(in Arabic except Allah alone) you want to say only moon god is good!!?

  • فقال له يسوع لماذا تدعوني صالحا. ليس احد صالحا الا واحد وهو الله

Why Arab Christians (who are ancient Christians) like the Egyptians and Lebanese call God "Allah"? And they also call Jesus Allah! Is Jesus pagan moon god also?

 

Why in the Christian Aramaic Dictionary web site of the state of Assyria http://www.atour.com/dictionary/ God translated into Alah or Allaha with bible concordance, do they also have moon god?, and did Jesus in his original Aramaic language believe also in moon god?

 

Why no respected Christian encyclopedia speaks of this pagan moon god?!

 

Allāh, The Concise Oxford Dictionary of World Religions | 1997 "Allāh. Arab. for God: if from earlier Semitic languages (e.g. Aram., alāhā), perhaps the God (Arab. al = ‘the’)."

 

Allah, The Columbia Encyclopedia, 6th ed. | 2011 "Allah (ăl´ə, ä´lə), [Arab.,=the God]. Derived from an old Semitic root refering to the Divine and used in the Canaanite El, the Mesopotamian ilu, and the biblical Elohim, the word Allah is used by all Arabic-speaking Muslims, Christians, Jews, and others"

 

Finally: is the description of Allah in the Quran fits with pagan moon god?

 

Quran 112:1-4 " Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him."

 

Quran 59:22-24 " Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god; Who knows (all things) both secret and open; He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god; the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Source of Peace (and Perfection), the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Safety, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme: Glory to Allah! (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him. He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory; and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise."

 

Praise be due to Allah,

 

By Sereihan Alshammari

Edited by sereihan

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Actually, you made a small error my friend. Christians follow Christ, Muslims follow Mohammed.

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