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Eternal Hell

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And those who disbelieve and deny Our signs - those will be companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally.

I have heard Christians explain why God sends people to hell for eternity by saying that since God is an infinitely righteous and just God, to sin against him is to merit an infinite punishment. Is this similar to the Islamic explanation or is there a different justification at play in Islam?

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PropellerAds

Uhh well disbelieving is infinite punishment but if you are a believer and sin then there is punishment but only temporary and then you go to Paradise eternally.

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Uhh well disbelieving is infinite punishment

Sorry, I didn't quite understand you there. Did you mean that disbeliever deserves infinite punishment?

 

but if you are a believer and sin then there is punishment but only temporary and then you go to Paradise eternally.

I see. That seems similar to the Catholic concept of purgatory. The major difference here between Christianity and Islam is the idea of Jesus being a propitiatory sacrifice, which seems to mitigate much, if not all, of the need for a temporary punishment. Thus, for the Christian, there is only the eternal punishment of disbelief and eternal Paradise for those who have believed in Jesus and so been forgiven by God. I have not done a thorough study of purgatory to understand how that works into such a framework, but I am sure it is possible. Perhaps one of the Catholic members here can comment on it.

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I have heard Christians explain why God sends people to hell for eternity by saying that since God is an infinitely righteous and just God, to sin against him is to merit an infinite punishment. Is this similar to the Islamic explanation or is there a different justification at play in Islam?

 

 

I believe the reason behind eternal punishment is that if God allowed a disbeliever to live for eternity on this earth, that disbeliever would have never believed in God. Thus the eternal punishment is justified, and God knows who deserves it.

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I believe the reason behind eternal punishment is that if God allowed a disbeliever to live for eternity on this earth, that disbeliever would have never believed in God. Thus the eternal punishment is justified, and God knows who deserves it.

But isn't this solved when God reveals himself to them at the day of Judgement? They wouldn't be disbelievers after that.

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But isn't this solved when God reveals himself to them at the day of Judgement? They wouldn't be disbelievers after that.

 

Well they will ask God to give them another chance, but they will be told No..

This is the communication that will take place on the day of judgment between Allah and the disbelievers..

 

[32.12] Would that you could see the wrongdoers when they lower their heads before their Lord! They will say: 'Our Lord, we have now seen and heard. Send us back and we will do righteous deeds, we are certain. '

[32.13] Had We Willed, We would have guided every soul. But My Word shall be realized, 'I will fill Gehenna (Hell) with jinn and people all together. '

[32.14] (We shall say to them): 'Now taste, for you forgot the encounter of this Day, We have forgotten you. Taste Our eternal punishment, for that which you were doing. '

 

As far i am aware they will also be raised blind on the day of resurrection as quoted in the verse below, so i guess they won't be able to see God, but rather witness His Presence without seeing Him (maybe they will believe like How Muslims believe in Him in this world, God knows best).

 

[17.97] Those whom Allah guides are rightly guided; but for those whom He leads astray you shall find no guardian, other than Him. On the Day of Resurrection We shall gather all of them upon their faces, blind, dumb, deaf. Gehenna shall be their refuge, whenever it dwindles, We will increase the Blaze for them.

God keep His promises, so i guess there is no BUT when God shows the truth someone, and then that person knowingly ignores it.

Edited by Mercyonmankind

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I have heard Christians explain why God sends people to hell for eternity by saying that since God is an infinitely righteous and just God, to sin against him is to merit an infinite punishment. Is this similar to the Islamic explanation or is there a different justification at play in Islam?

 

Allaah knows best And had Allah willed, He could have made you (all) one nation, but He sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. But you shall certainly be called to account for what you used to do. [16:93]. And the punishment is justified And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam's loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes! We testify," lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: "Verily, we have been unaware of this." [7.172]

 

From a rational perspective if Allaah was to make Hell a temporary abode, then would people still strive to do good? And if someone did evil throughout their entire life, went to Hell temporarily, then was "deleted", would there have been any point in the punishment? Similarly if there was no life after death, then where would the justice be? We don't always see justice being carried out in this world as Allaah has given us free will, the ability to do good and bad; but there is complete justice in the hereafter. The Mercy of Allaah in the hereafter is only for the believers; how can the disbelievers expect the Mercy of Allaah when they never believed in it in the first place? Allaah gives people ample opportunity in this life to believe, enough to justify eternal punishment.

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Allaah knows best And had Allah willed, He could have made you (all) one nation, but He sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. But you shall certainly be called to account for what you used to do. [16:93]. And the punishment is justified And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam's loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes! We testify," lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: "Verily, we have been unaware of this." [7.172]

 

From a rational perspective if Allaah was to make Hell a temporary abode, then would people still strive to do good? And if someone did evil throughout their entire life, went to Hell temporarily, then was "deleted", would there have been any point in the punishment? Similarly if there was no life after death, then where would the justice be? We don't always see justice being carried out in this world as Allaah has given us free will, the ability to do good and bad; but there is complete justice in the hereafter. The Mercy of Allaah in the hereafter is only for the believers; how can the disbelievers expect the Mercy of Allaah when they never believed in it in the first place? Allaah gives people ample opportunity in this life to believe, enough to justify eternal punishment.

I believe every one gets a chance to make a choice to accept god on His terms, but hell is not eternal life after death; it is eternal death for those who didn't meet god's terms regardless of whether they believe he exists or not!

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I believe every one gets a chance to make a choice to accept god on His terms, but hell is not eternal life after death; it is eternal death for those who didn't meet god's terms regardless of whether they believe he exists or not!

 

Yes believing that God exists alone is not enough, you must also do as He commanded you. Thank you for bringing that up.

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But isn't this solved when God reveals himself to them at the day of Judgement? They wouldn't be disbelievers after that.

I believe, they are without excuse because the heavens declare the glory of God. People who don't believe god exists are being purposefully ignorant which is no excuse. Even if one believes god exist, it is not enough. the devils believe god exists and fear and tremble. only those that submit to his will and meet him on his terms will be written in the book of life! IOW, a disbeliever is in rebellion against god. Hell was not meant for people; it weas menat for Satan and demons, but ppl go there because they choose darkness rather than the light of life.

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Yes believing that God exists alone is not enough, you must also do as He commanded you. Thank you for bringing that up.

Sure thing, friend

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ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã æ ÑÍãÉ Çááå

i believe there are three important points:

 

1st Allah has related his punishment to how powerful the proofs that he introduced to you. Allah says in the Quran:

"Whosoever goeth right, it is only for (the good of) his own soul that he goeth right, and whosoever erreth, erreth only to its hurt. No laden soul can bear another's load. We never punish until we have sent a messenger" (17-15)

while the messenger here is the proof, could be logics, religious, specific miracle in the god's book which no one have any idea before but you and the god, code of life, simplicity .........

let's assume the case: some one got enough proves but he decided for reason or another to ignore it, or reduce it's importance, does this one deserve to be punished?

 

2nd any one will like that his son to respect and obey him, because he is the reason of his existence and some other few favors

what about the one who creates the whole universe for us he grant us with unlimited favors, we can't count the favors which inside every one of us, sure he deserve to be exalted and obeyed

 

3nd Is the god punishment is eternal?

there are a rare Moslem theologians, support the "NO", based on that verse

"Abiding there so long as the heavens and the earth endure save for that which thy Lord willeth. Lo! thy Lord is Doer of what He will". (11-107)

and that hadeeth:

"The god divided mercy into 100 parts, and he kept 99 part with him and descended on the earth only one part with which every mercy action on that earth, including that the animal may keep her leg suspended up because it afraid to heart here son.

 

Allah knows best

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ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã æ ÑÃãÉ Çááå

i believe there are three important points:

 

1st Allah has related his punishment to how powerful the proofs that he introduced to you. Allah says in the Quran:

"Whosoever goeth right, it is only for (the good of) his own soul that he goeth right, and whosoever erreth, erreth only to its hurt. No laden soul can bear another's load. We never punish until we have sent a messenger" (17-15)

while the messenger here is the proof, could be logics, religious, specific miracle in the god's book which no one have any idea before but you and the god, code of life, simplicity .........

let's assume the case: some one got enough proves but he decided for reason or another to ignore it, or reduce it's importance, does this one deserve to be punished?

 

2nd any one will like that his son to respect and obey him, because he is the reason of his existence and some other few favors

what about the one who creates the whole universe for us he grant us with unlimited favors, we can't count the favors which inside every one of us, sure he deserve to be exalted and obeyed

 

3nd Is the god punishment is eternal?

there are a rare Moslem theologians, support the "NO", based on that verse

"Abiding there so long as the heavens and the earth endure save for that which thy Lord willeth. Lo! thy Lord is Doer of what He will". (11-107)

and that hadeeth:

"The god divided mercy into 100 parts, and he kept 99 part with him and descended on the earth only one part with which every mercy action on that earth, including that the animal may keep her leg suspended up because it afraid to heart here son.

 

Allah knows best

I don't understand what you are talking about here. You ask a question but don't answer it, and you made comments that are not coherent to me regarding the topic. Who deserves eternity in a burning hell? I look at it like we are all in a burning tower (the whole world is). How can a man or other man save one from this burning tower? Answer, they can not save themselves; god must do it or we burn! If we could save ourselves, we wouldn't need god! God does it only if we meet him on his terms! Everyone will know what those terms are before being sentenced to an eternity in hell.

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if some one can comprehend what i said, i'll owe him a favor

 

I don't understand what you are talking about here. You ask a question but don't answer it,

most of the moslems believe the god punishment will be eternal. only few believe it will not be depending on the above verse and hadeeth

 

Who deserves eternity in a burning hell?

the one who don't accept the god messege that supported by enough proofs

 

I look at it like we are all in a burning tower (the whole world is). How can a man or other man save one from this burning tower?

you who chose that name, make it shining light :sl:

sory for that but any one will be save by the right believes in god and supports that with good deeds, both are required, not one of them alone.

 

Answer, they can not save themselves; god must do it or we burn! If we could save ourselves, we wouldn't need god! God does it only if we meet him on his terms! Everyone will know what those terms are before being sentenced to an eternity in hell.

many will believe in false gods and so they will have wrong deeds, and so they will burm themselves on this earth before the second day

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if some one can comprehend what i said, i'll owe him a favor

most of the moslems believe the god punishment will be eternal. only few believe it will not be depending on the above verse and hadeeth

Christians also disagree about hell being eternal punishment, but I believe it is.

the one who don't accept the god messege that supported by enough proofs
god's mssage is a very subjective thing. wouldn't you say?
you who chose that name, make it shining light :sl:
lol, now that was funny; one point for u! Maybe I should change my name to brightlight to avoid your pun on words. But what do you really mean? I would make it where? hell or paradise?
sory for that but any one will be save by the right believes in god and supports that with good deeds, both are required, not one of them alone.
If one has thhe faith and the right belief the right works and deeds will follow! One can have good deeds and not have the right belief, but not the other waqy around

many will believe in false gods and so they will have wrong deeds, and so they will burm themselves on this earth before the second day
I agree!!!!!!!!!

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Christians also disagree about hell being eternal punishment, but I believe it is.

where in the bible?

 

god's mssage is a very subjective thing. wouldn't you say?

Sorry I did't got that..

 

But what do you really mean? I would make it where? hell or paradise?

no one can judge any specific one, it's the god's right alone

while if the god sent you the real proofs about himself, and you didn't properly used the magnificent tool he, almighty, gave you (brain) to judge issues, and you kept ignoring it, then he, almighty will not be happy about you

 

If one has thhe faith and the right belief the right works and deeds will follow! One can have good deeds and not have the right belief, but not the other waqy around

I agree!!!!!!!!!

Then you agree with me. But if he tried to convince himself that he have the right belief while not doing good deeds, what we can call this man?

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Well they will ask God to give them another chance, but they will be told No..

This is the communication that will take place on the day of judgment between Allah and the disbelievers..

 

[32.12] Would that you could see the wrongdoers when they lower their heads before their Lord! They will say: 'Our Lord, we have now seen and heard. Send us back and we will do righteous deeds, we are certain. '

[32.13] Had We Willed, We would have guided every soul. But My Word shall be realized, 'I will fill Gehenna (Hell) with jinn and people all together. '

[32.14] (We shall say to them): 'Now taste, for you forgot the encounter of this Day, We have forgotten you. Taste Our eternal punishment, for that which you were doing. '

I want to make sure I am understanding this correctly. So God is leading people astray so that he can populate Hell as he promised?

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From a rational perspective if Allaah was to make Hell a temporary abode, then would people still strive to do good?

I don't see why not. If someone held a gun to your head and told you to do something good, I suspect that even the average sinner would do good. Now change that to a thousand years of the worst torment imaginable, and I would see that as a pretty strong motivator, even if it wasn't eternal.

 

And if someone did evil throughout their entire life, went to Hell temporarily, then was "deleted", would there have been any point in the punishment?

Well, if they were deleted, then yes, that would seem pointless. But what if they were rehabilitated afterwards?

 

Similarly if there was no life after death, then where would the justice be?

Well, I think most people who don't believe in life after death also don't believe in God, so they wouldn't subscribe to their being something like ultimate justice in the world.

 

We don't always see justice being carried out in this world as Allaah has given us free will, the ability to do good and bad; but there is complete justice in the hereafter. The Mercy of Allaah in the hereafter is only for the believers; how can the disbelievers expect the Mercy of Allaah when they never believed in it in the first place? Allaah gives people ample opportunity in this life to believe, enough to justify eternal punishment.

But they would believe after they died. Also, I just have a hard time imagining that such a small period as 70 years of not believing would justify an infinite number of years of punishment. But I am not God, and his ways are not known to me, so naturally I am just not comprehending the mercy and justice of God.

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where in the bible?
I just said that Christians have disagreements on what hell is like. The Bible says its a lake of fire I believe it.

 

Sorry I did't got that..
Subjective means everyone has their personal view on what is truth. Christians, for instance, believe the Bible. Muslims, otoh, believe the Quran. Who's to judge which is the the right one? When someone says their religion is the best the other says theirs is. So no one gets anywhere. What's the use? Unless Allah comes to me and tells me I am the god you should worship, I will not believe, and unless Jesus comes to you, telling and showing you He's the only way and truth, you will not believe. Does that make sense to you?
no one can judge any specific one, it's the god's right alone

while if the god sent you the real proofs about himself, and you didn't properly used the magnificent tool he, almighty, gave you (brain) to judge issues, and you kept ignoring it, then he, almighty will not be happy about you

Then you agree with me. But if he tried to convince himself that he have the right belief while not doing good deeds, what we can call this man?

You said no one can judge? The Bible said, I write these things that you might know that you have eternal life...

If someone doesn't know they received the gift of eternal life; then, they have never received it. It is like me sending you a birthday gift, and I ask you "did you get it?" and you respond, "I don't know only god knows." I believe god wants us to know where we are going to spend eternity. IMO, god wouldn't be just not to give us the opportunity to know where we're going to be forever. I believe god is all just

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I believe, they are without excuse because the heavens declare the glory of God. People who don't believe god exists are being purposefully ignorant which is no excuse.

Thank you for sharing your doctrinal commitments regarding the state of mind of non-Christians.

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I want to make sure I am understanding this correctly. So God is leading people astray so that he can populate Hell as he promised?

 

 

You missed the first sentence "[32.13] Had We Willed, We would have guided every soul...."..

God guides whomever He Wills. In reality we are all lost, so God guides whomever He Wills..

Edited by Mercyonmankind

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Thank you for sharing your doctrinal commitments regarding the state of mind of non-Christians.

I am sure that Muslim believe the same on this! I tell you the truth in love friend!

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I am sure that Muslim believe the same on this! I tell you the truth in love friend!

You are right. I am confident that they believe the same thing. And I have no doubt that you believe the veracity of your statements regarding this matter.

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You missed the first sentence "[32.13] Had We Willed, We would have guided every soul...."..

God guides whomever He Wills. In reality we are all lost, so God guides whomever He Wills..

I'm not clear on how that sentence changes the statement. So, if God had wanted to, he could have guided every soul, but he doesn't want to. I just wasn't sure if it was saying he didn't want to because he had promised to populate hell with people.

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I don't see why not. If someone held a gun to your head and told you to do something good, I suspect that even the average sinner would do good. Now change that to a thousand years of the worst torment imaginable, and I would see that as a pretty strong motivator, even if it wasn't eternal.

Well, if they were deleted, then yes, that would seem pointless. But what if they were rehabilitated afterwards?

Well, I think most people who don't believe in life after death also don't believe in God, so they wouldn't subscribe to their being something like ultimate justice in the world.

But they would believe after they died. Also, I just have a hard time imagining that such a small period as 70 years of not believing would justify an infinite number of years of punishment. But I am not God, and his ways are not known to me, so naturally I am just not comprehending the mercy and justice of God.

 

We might as well get straight to the point then and ask: Why didn't God just put us in Paradise instead of testing us? Point I'm trying to make is that we can only go so far in trying to understand the Wisdom of Allaah. And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allah) said: "I know that which you do not know." [2:30]

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