Ron Shirt 2 Posted December 7, 2011 (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16046079"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16046079[/url] The BBC reports a suicide bombing in Afghanistan perpretrated against Shia Muslims by Sunnis at a shrine killing 'at least' 54 people. Regardless of being Sunni or Shia how can any Muslims anywhere justify this murderous act? Salaam, ron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EasternQibla 0 Posted December 7, 2011 It is clearly wrong. This is the down-side of a 'closed group' mentality: the good side is the people grow together and help each other, the bad side is that some people can become more and more suspicious of outsiders. Islam has such things as these, atheism has the cruel killings of communism, Christianity has the crusades. Then again, there is the paradox of keeping a society healthy while not being oppressive. The communists thought belief in God would hold society back, traditionally religious have thought that heretical movements would destroy the harmony of society. Where do you draw the line between keeping society going, and becoming oppressive? I'm afraid this is an imperfect world, but we look for the one which is to come ... Richard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the sad clown 3 Posted December 7, 2011 (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16046079"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetbbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16046079[/url] The BBC reports a suicide bombing in Afghanistan perpretrated against Shia Muslims by Sunnis at a shrine killing 'at least' 54 people. Regardless of being Sunni or Shia how can any Muslims anywhere justify this murderous act? I don't believe Muslims have to justify it any more than Christians have to justify the killings in Ireland of the last century or Hindus have to justify violence against Muslims in India, etc, etc. Most people already think it is wrong, and the one's who don't aren't that concerned with human life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Shirt 2 Posted December 7, 2011 I don't believe Muslims have to justify it any more than Christians have to justify the killings in Ireland of the last century or Hindus have to justify violence against Muslims in India, etc, etc. Most people already think it is wrong, and the one's who don't aren't that concerned with human life. I was just wondering if anyone would try and justify it. I have seen several posts that support extremists on this forum. I've also noticed that due to general 'Muslim tolerance' often nothing is said regarding such shameful atrocities. A matter of 'closing ranks' I think. Such attrocities everyone calling themselves a Muslim should be totally ashamed of. There must be both Sunnis and Shias on this forum I would have thought. The sad and ironical thing was that apparently in this case, people were blaming 'foreign forces' for the murders. this is surely the logic of : 'If I'd never been born then it would never have happened to me'. Or maybe I've got it all wrong and the Americans are to blame. ron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the sad clown 3 Posted December 7, 2011 Or maybe I've got it all wrong and the Americans are to blame. I am sure there is more than enough blame to ensure everyone has a share in it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AHMAD_73 86 Posted December 7, 2011 What is the proof, about Sunni? we can't ignore the complicated political/economical/military/intelligance eastern and western intersections in Afghanistan? even the Americans can't say "Mission accomplished", the ((((way they did in Iraq )))) few years ago!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Shirt 2 Posted December 7, 2011 What is the proof, about Sunni? we can't ignore the complicated political/economical/military/intelligance eastern and western intersections in Afghanistan? even the Americans can't say "Mission accomplished", the ((((way they did in Iraq )))) few years ago!!! "Twin attacks apparently targeting Shia Muslims have killed at least 58 people in Afghanistan." Note the word 'apparrently' Who would be a suicide bomber but a 'so called' Muslim? Or do you have your own theories? Are you saying that the Americans are in some way to blame? Salaam ron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Shirt 2 Posted December 7, 2011 I am sure there is more than enough blame to ensure everyone has a share in it. I see you are indeed a master cynic. But I don't believe you should try to hide in your cynicism. Perhaps simple murder doesn't exist within your sphere of reference... r Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the sad clown 3 Posted December 7, 2011 Cynical or realistic? Who is to blame? The Americans invaded and helped create the current environment. The Taliban continues to wage war instead of trying to make peace, the current Afgan government is seemingly incompetent and corrupt. Sunni and Shia extremists hate each other and are taking advantage of the environment to kill each other. The list could go on. I don't see anyone with any sort of power involved in the area as untainted. As for simple murder, who commits a simple murder with coodinated bomb attacks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mercyonmankind 2 Posted December 8, 2011 Sunni and Shia have lived in peace in Afghanistan for long time. This act is indeed an act committed by an outsider or an insider has been manipulated by an outsider.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the sad clown 3 Posted December 8, 2011 Sunni and Shia have lived in peace in Afghanistan for long time. This act is indeed an act committed by an outsider or an insider has been manipulated by an outsider.. I do not know that we can say that with certainty. People can and do change. That something has been one way for a long time does not mean that there will not come along an individual who would seek to inspire a change. Consider how long slavery has been with humankind, and yet today it is fairly uncommon. A change has occurred and it started somewhere and it started with someone. Unfortunately, if a change has occurred in Afghanistan, it has not been a change for the better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Shirt 2 Posted December 8, 2011 Cynical or realistic? Who is to blame? The Americans invaded and helped create the current environment. The Taliban continues to wage war instead of trying to make peace, the current Afgan government is seemingly incompetent and corrupt. Sunni and Shia extremists hate each other and are taking advantage of the environment to kill each other. The list could go on. I don't see anyone with any sort of power involved in the area as untainted. As for simple murder, who commits a simple murder with coodinated bomb attacks? So what happened to Islam and 'Islamic principles' in all of this I wonder? ron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the sad clown 3 Posted December 8, 2011 So what happened to Islam and 'Islamic principles' in all of this I wonder? What typically happens to principles when they become inconvenient, they become ignored, obsfucated, and reinterpreted so as to expedite the desired course of action. This goes not just for any Muslim perpetrator in the attacks, but for all of the other parties involved. Hasn't the US been just as guilty of ignoring its own principles in the name of its national security and interests? I see the outworkings of such so called pragmatism at work in Afghanistan as well. As I had said earlier, there is more than enough blame to go around. This doesn't make it right, but we shouldn't pretend that it can't or doesn't happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Shirt 2 Posted December 8, 2011 What typically happens to principles when they become inconvenient, they become ignored, obsfucated, and reinterpreted so as to expedite the desired course of action. This goes not just for any Muslim perpetrator in the attacks, but for all of the other parties involved. Hasn't the US been just as guilty of ignoring its own principles in the name of its national security and interests? I see the outworkings of such so called pragmatism at work in Afghanistan as well. As I had said earlier, there is more than enough blame to go around. This doesn't make it right, but we shouldn't pretend that it can't or doesn't happen. Yes well I've seen several times that Americans are held to be guilty of monstrous acts and then when Muslims are the perpetrators of atrocities everything goes quiet. This must be the so-called tolerant side of my religion coming through.. ron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the sad clown 3 Posted December 8, 2011 Yes well I've seen several times that Americans are held to be guilty of monstrous acts and then when Muslims are the perpetrators of atrocities everything goes quiet. This must be the so-called tolerant side of my religion coming through.. It is usually easier to direct criticism outside of one's group than within it. There are less inhibitions when we don't identify with the person or persons being remarked upon, since there can be a lack of understanding or sympathy for the motivations that inspired the behavior. This is true for humans in general and not one group or another. I hope we can all strive for a more even handed and empathic approach to others and recognize our own weaknesses in this area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Shirt 2 Posted December 8, 2011 It is usually easier to direct criticism outside of one's group than within it. There are less inhibitions when we don't identify with the person or persons being remarked upon, since there can be a lack of understanding or sympathy for the motivations that inspired the behavior. This is true for humans in general and not one group or another. I hope we can all strive for a more even handed and empathic approach to others and recognize our own weaknesses in this area. I agree that what you say is true, but that doesn't make it alright. As a matter of fact I'm pretty disgusted with the human race as a whole. Muslims don't seem, in general to even suffer from any embaressment. I think I'd like to live in a Muslim country and see just how popular I'd be if I tried to argue or dispute anything of signifigance. ron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the sad clown 3 Posted December 8, 2011 I agree that what you say is true, but that doesn't make it alright. As a matter of fact I'm pretty disgusted with the human race as a whole. Muslims don't seem, in general to even suffer from any embaressment. I think I'd like to live in a Muslim country and see just how popular I'd be if I tried to argue or dispute anything of signifigance. You are certainly correct. I acknowledge that engaging in such behavior and attitudes is not right, as it produces only narrow-mindedness and bigotry in its refusal to properly attribute the full complexity of human nature in those around us. Every society has to wrestle with the tensions of preserving the freedoms of individuals and protecting the integrity of the community. The West currently is on one side of that spectrum, and other countries are on the other side. It has to be taken into account how this balance is perceived in a given culture. It is hard to tell how much reticence towards dissent is based on Islam and how much is the local culture masquerading as Islam. I would try to be very careful in attributing it to Islam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chelsea89 4 Posted December 8, 2011 I wish I knew what these so called Muslims were thking! It's certainly not an accurate portrayal of the religion of peace nor the God I fell in love with Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Shirt 2 Posted December 8, 2011 I wish I knew what these so called Muslims were thking! It's certainly not an accurate portrayal of the religion of peace nor the God I fell in love with Exactly! Ron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
