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BurningLight

Muhammmad And Ayesha

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In the Gospel, Jesus split one loaf of bread and fed 5,000. Yet, where were those people when Jesus was staked to a cross? Honestly, miracles don't mean anything without faith.

Which to my mind calls into question the reality of the miracles if people could witness all that is described in the Gospels and still not believe. If I met someone who could do that not once, but twice, and do all of the other things I mentioned, I wouldn't be struggling to believe, that's for sure.

 

Heck, I'd be fine with someone like Muhammad who just showed people the moon being split in half and put back together, nevermind being transfigured or raising the dead.

 

Besides, if that's the case, then there should be no harm in God coming down and telling me its his dirt that I was trying to use to make life.

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How much more blessed will you be if you believe without seeing anything?

Oh, and I'm tired of people quoting this. The alternative facing the person you are talking to isn't more blessing for not seeing or less blessing for having seen, its going to hell when not seeing versus less blessing for having seen. I'll go ahead and take the smaller serving of blessing, thanks.

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You didn't answer my question. How much faith would it require after seeing Jesus have the Holy Spirit descend like a dove from heaven upon him, transfigure, heal all manner of people including the dead, resurrect, and finally ascend into heaven? I'm pretty sure I could swing it.
Clown, it wouldn't take any faith to believe what they witnessed. But how much faith do you think they needed to suffer the kind of persecution and death they were to go through for their faith in Christ? To whom much is given much is required.

 

And it isn't self explanatory. Look at that list of super saints you got in Hebrews 11. Every last one of them experienced tangible evidence of God and yet they are heroes of faith. And yet you want to poo poo any requests for the like, saying God couldn't come and tell me it was his dirt like in your story or it "wouldn't be faith". Now do you see how your little interpretation is adding things to the verse?
Clown, I will pray that God shows you a sign. If you really want it keep asking and you'll receive it. You are asking but can you do it with all your heart? God showed me, and it knock me for a spiritual loop. Edited by BurningLight

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hahhaha... :sl:

 

Maybe you were shown something but just wasn't open to it. Let me share a personal story.

 

Back several years ago, I couple came up to me and asked if I could photocopy 2 pictures. I accepted this simple challenge. I scanned it and did one print, to act as a proof. Something in the copy caught my eye, which at first I thought was an error with the machine. Then I looked at the original, which had the same issue. What I saw was the bottom portions of two transparent, human forms, each facing a gentleman sitting in a chair. The top portions of the human forms were unseen as they seemed to pass through the ceiling, the ceiling being solid. I went back to the old couple and asked if they saw these 2 transparent, human forms. The wife said yes. She then told me a story.

 

She said the man in the photo is her brother. The place he was sitting in was a church. The reason for being in the church at this time was because the congregation was holding a worship service in celebration of his life. You see, he was diagnosed with cancer and only given a couple months to live. He was receiving no treatment due to the widespread progression of the cancer. The main aspect of this worship service was prayer and praise to God, with the prayer seeking healing and that whatever God wills, the brother be in God's hands. The people were accepting of his death but only desiring God take care of the man, on Earth and in Heaven. After this worship service, about a week later, the man had a checkup with the doctor. The man went because he said he was feeling no more pain and had a renewed energy. The doctor ran a series of tests and found that there was no sign of the cancer.

 

At that moment, I believed that those photos showed angels healing that man, at the command of God. I could have chosen to believe the photos were fake or there was a purely scientific reason. However, I did not and to this day, I still believe this man was healed. Before then, I too was skeptical but I was asking for a Sign. I had no idea how that Sign would be manifested, if it would be manifested. I was just blessed enough to be open to receive the Sign. It renewed my spiritual journey and I have never looked back. :sl:

 

Some people don't need Signs. Some do. The key is the desire for those Signs and genuinely being willing to believe in whatever God does show to you.

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Clown, it wouldn't take any faith to believe what they witnessed. But how much faith do you think they needed to suffer the kind of persecution and death they were to go through for their faith in Christ? To whom much is given much is required.

Faith in what? I would still believe that the sky was blue no matter how much you tortured me. Do you think if someone is torturing you that you will suddenly stop believing that a dead guy came back to life in front of you, or that you saw your master fly up into the sky? You might deny it in order to end the torture, but that wouldn't be a loss of faith, it would just be a lie to your torturer. That might make you a coward, but it wouldn't make you an unbeliever.

 

Clown, I will pray that God shows you a sign. If you really want it keep asking and you'll receive it. You are asking but can you do it with all your heart? God showed me, and it knock me for a spiritual loop.

I see, I need to believe in order to get the sign I need to believe. I have asked plenty of times with all of my heart, more than I care to remember. God hasn't shown me, so instead of a spiritual loop, I ended up with the spiritual loophole that I'm just don't have enough faith to get my answer. And it's perfect, because there is no way for me to prove that I did have enough faith and things just didn't happen anyways.

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The key is the desire for those Signs and genuinely being willing to believe in whatever God does show to you.

This is the same conundrum BurningLight wants to stick me in. I need to believe in order to be able to believe. Why can't I be unwilling to believe and yet God shows me and convinces me I was wrong. I've had it happen before by mere mortals, so surely it wouldn't be hard for God.

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This is the same conundrum BurningLight wants to stick me in. I need to believe in order to be able to believe. Why can't I be unwilling to believe and yet God shows me and convinces me I was wrong. I've had it happen before by mere mortals, so surely it wouldn't be hard for God.

 

The other alternative then is that God set a seal upon your heart. Only He can remove it. Why? Who knows.

 

45:23: Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own vain desire? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed His hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight.

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Faith in what? I would still believe that the sky was blue no matter how much you tortured me. Do you think if someone is torturing you that you will suddenly stop believing that a dead guy came back to life in front of you, or that you saw your master fly up into the sky? You might deny it in order to end the torture, but that wouldn't be a loss of faith, it would just be a lie to your torturer. That might make you a coward, but it wouldn't make you an unbeliever.
This is true, but I wasn't referring to the things they witnessed, but did you ever think that they saw what they did because of their faith? It is written that faith is the substance of things hoped for and evidence of the things not seen. I believe God is preparing you for something through this frustrating trail. His delay is not a denial. Maybe you are just too analytical with your over average intelligence; maybe you could try thinking with your heart a little harder or for a change.

 

I see, I need to believe in order to get the sign I need to believe. I have asked plenty of times with all of my heart, more than I care to remember. God hasn't shown me, so instead of a spiritual loop, I ended up with the spiritual loophole that I'm just don't have enough faith to get my answer. And it's perfect, because there is no way for me to prove that I did have enough faith and things just didn't happen anyways.
I didn't say that. Lord, I ask you for Clown. You love him. I believe. Help his unbelief. Help him to call on your name and let your Spirit bear witness with his spirit that a connection has been made in Jesus name! Good night friend Edited by BurningLight

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This is the same conundrum BurningLight wants to stick me in. I need to believe in order to be able to believe. Why can't I be unwilling to believe and yet God shows me and convinces me I was wrong. I've had it happen before by mere mortals, so surely it wouldn't be hard for God.
I don't know, maybe your attitude isn't right or you're proud and wanting God to meet you on your terms instead of meeting Him on his terms or maybe he is preparing you for a revelation of Himself for a reason, but many of us have had encounters with God that we cannot deny just because others don't get it. You can always importune God. Do you remember the story of the unjust judge? The widow kept asking until the judge got weary and gave her what she wanted.

You can pull that on God, but God resists the proud and sends them away empty but the humble get grace sooner or later. Sure God can reveal himself to you without your believeing first. He might honor the prayer of a believe on your behalf and show you something inspite of yourself. I hope you get what you want soon.

I am not saying your proud and that is the problem I am saying I don't know, but it can be any one or none of these reasons. The Bible says the heavens delcare His glory. I wonder why that isn't enough for you? Or enough to get your faith primed to receive further revelation. Once God speaks to your heart you won't be the same on this forum. I can tell you that. Everyone will see the difference.

Edited by BurningLight

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Oh, and I'm tired of people quoting this. The alternative facing the person you are talking to isn't more blessing for not seeing or less blessing for having seen, its going to hell when not seeing versus less blessing for having seen. I'll go ahead and take the smaller serving of blessing, thanks.
Did you ever think that God has been speaking to you, but you are rejecting it because you're leaning to your own understanding?

Hence he cannot show you more.

Edited by BurningLight

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Salaams, Yes I agree this thread has gone off topic for quite a few posts now, so let's get back to the Topic.

 

A little side note: Guidence comes from God/Allah so let's leave it to Him to guide whom he desires to Guide. Saying that we cannot judge people, that is also a matter that should be left to God/Allah.

 

BTW. there are a few threads made on this Topic in the past, you can search for them if interested.

 

Here is one link for your reading

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=726630&hl=Aisha"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic...30&hl=Aisha[/url]

 

Salaams.

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