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No Face Covering Allowed During Canadia Citizenship Ceremony

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Really how many muslim women did you meet that told you they are forced to wear it?

 

No one has to meet them. I've never had a conversation with one. Many voices of moderation in the Muslim religion have spoken out against it. It is well known in the media .

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Sorry but that is just funny.

 

Why is that funny? Muslims make up a very small percentage in my country. Niquabs and burkhas are not rampant. I know a number of muslims and the women don't wear them or the men's wives wouldn't be caught dead in them. Why would I have a conversation with one? I don't want to talk to someone in a mask, unless its halloween.

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Why is that funny? Muslims make up a very small percentage in my country. Niquabs and burkhas are not rampant. I know a number of muslims and the women don't wear them or the men's wives wouldn't be caught dead in them. Why would I have a conversation with one? I don't want to talk to someone in a mask, unless its halloween.

It's funny because you are criticising men if they tell their wife to wear it yet what makes you different when you tell women not to wear it. Surely it should be a woman's own personal decision on what she wants to wear.Also there is evidence from the scriptures that support the niqab view, I advise you to read it here: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=25763.html&"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=25763.html&[/url]

 

You shouldn't believe what every Muslim tells you unless they back it up with evidence, some Muslims drink alcohol it doesn't mean its ok! Women who wear a burqa/niqab are just like every other woman - they are still human and I don't think its right to strip their clothing from them if its their personal decision to wear it. '

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It's funny because you are criticising men if they tell their wife to wear it yet what makes you different when you tell women not to wear it. Surely it should be a woman's own personal decision on what she wants to wear.Also there is evidence from the scriptures that support the niqab view, I advise you to read it here: you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic=25763.html&

 

You shouldn't believe what every Muslim tells you unless they back it up with evidence, some Muslims drink alcohol it doesn't mean its ok! Women who wear a burqa/niqab are just like every other woman - they are still human and I don't think its right to strip their clothing from them if its their personal decision to wear it. '

 

I sure do criticize men for enslaving their wives, you bet I do. What right does a man have to tell a woman what to wear? I don't tell anyone not to wear it, but I exercise my right not to associate with them. You seem so one sided. It's ok for them to wear it anywhere they want but it's not ok for us to be put off by it. We have our own western cultures and that part of arabic culture doesn't fit in our societies. Muslims can't always have their cake and eat it too. You want to be respected but don't want to return it. I don't particularly like traditional Muslim dress, including hijhabs, but at least I can see who I'm dealing with, so I'm not against it.

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You seem so one sided. It's ok for them to wear it anywhere they want but it's not ok for us to be put off by it. We have our own western cultures and that part of arabic culture doesn't fit in our societies. Muslims can't always have their cake and eat it too. You want to be respected but don't want to return it.

That is a good point. There certainly is a lot of distaste for western clothing among Muslims. They can't very well object to what they practice themselves.

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Actually I was born and live in western culture and I wouldn't consider myself one sided. I don't judge people who wear burqa/niqab/hijab/ or anything! I just think at the end of the day there is so much hype about a few women in the west who wear the niqab/burqa - I have never had any issues with a woman who wears it - they respect me so I respect them. You never had any experience with a woman who wears burqa so I think you are the one being one sided. You even said you don't associate with them as if they are some sort of disease in society.

 

Also I didn't even make my opinion on the issue related in this thread. I do think that in some instances a woman does need to give her identity by showing her face - it's just my opinion and I know its a controversial topic.

 

And I have no prejudice against women who do not dress Islamic - who am I to judge them for what they wear.

 

Cultures change but religion sticks.

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The mere fact Western countries are putting so much emphasis to ban something only worn by a negligible percent of their society, shows that Islamophobia is becoming more and more part of the norm.

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The mere fact Western countries are putting so much emphasis to ban something only worn by a negligible percent of their society, shows that Islamophobia is becoming more and more part of the norm.

Do you really think that previous generations would have been more tolerant of Islamic practices like this? They could afford to ignore it because it wasn't something they ordinarily had to face, what with the religion of Islam largely segregated away from the West and large scale interactions between the two expressed largely through war. I don't know what direction society is really heading in; you could be right and Islamophobia is on the rise, but for each of these examples, there are others who are outspoken in their opposition to such measures. What we are experiencing right now is a transitional period where there is increasing exposure to Islam in the West as Muslims are finally becoming a more visible part of society there. I would think it would be expected that there would be conflicting opinions as societies begin to feel there way around this new reality and attempt to accommodate the increasing diversity within the society.

 

Doesn't it seem to you that there is something similar going on in Muslim societies as well, as we all are struggling to find the answer to the growing integration of peoples across the globe?

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Do you really think that previous generations would have been more tolerant of Islamic practices like this?

 

Absolutely. Previous generations had really nothing against Muslims. Atleast, not on the scale they have today. Plus, that farther generations you go back in western countries, they were a heck of a lot more religious and respectful of religion itself. So I don't think we would have seen the attack on Islamic practices like today.

 

They could afford to ignore it because it wasn't something they ordinarily had to face, what with the religion of Islam largely segregated away from the West and large scale interactions between the two expressed largely through war.

 

You're right there wasn't as much exposure as today, however, today there in common daily interaction atleast, there still isn't much exposure. Maybe France could be considered to be different considering their large Muslim populations, but they went as far to ban the burka outright completely, which really has no legitimacy. Atleast Canada arguably had some points to ban it during the ceremony . Then again about France, there were very few who actually wore the burka. Don't you think Islamophobia has something to do with this?

 

Doesn't it seem to you that there is something similar going on in Muslim societies as well, as we all are struggling to find the answer to the growing integration of peoples across the globe?

 

Can you elaborate on this more? Do you mean more western foreigners coming to Muslim countries or western ideals?

Edited by Teckni

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Salam.

 

Sorry, I didn't proof read and can't edit.

 

 

You're right there wasn't as much exposure as today, however, today there still isn't much exposure in terms of common daily interaction. Maybe France could be considered to be different considering their large Muslim populations, but they went as far to ban the burka outright completely, which really has no legitimacy.

 

Hope the edit made it more clear.

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Actually I was born and live in western culture and I wouldn't consider myself one sided. I don't judge people who wear burqa/niqab/hijab/ or anything! I just think at the end of the day there is so much hype about a few women in the west who wear the niqab/burqa - I have never had any issues with a woman who wears it - they respect me so I respect them. You never had any experience with a woman who wears burqa so I think you are the one being one sided. You even said you don't associate with them as if they are some sort of disease in society.

 

Also I didn't even make my opinion on the issue related in this thread. I do think that in some instances a woman does need to give her identity by showing her face - it's just my opinion and I know its a controversial topic.

 

And I have no prejudice against women who do not dress Islamic - who am I to judge them for what they wear.

 

Cultures change but religion sticks.

I don't think of them as having a disease. It is not possible for me to relate to them when their faces are covered. As far as not having prejudice against women who wear western clothing, it would be a miserable life for you, if practicaly everyone around you in the society you live in, offended you. I have nothing against a woman wearing the burka in a Muslim society, if she's not forced to, and many are(let's agree to disagree on this point).

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The mere fact Western countries are putting so much emphasis to ban something only worn by a negligible percent of their society, shows that Islamophobia is becoming more and more part of the norm.

 

Most western countries have not banned them. The populace doesn't like them and the symbolism behind them unnerves us.

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Do you really think that previous generations would have been more tolerant of Islamic practices like this? They could afford to ignore it because it wasn't something they ordinarily had to face, what with the religion of Islam largely segregated away from the West and large scale interactions between the two expressed largely through war. I don't know what direction society is really heading in; you could be right and Islamophobia is on the rise, but for each of these examples, there are others who are outspoken in their opposition to such measures. What we are experiencing right now is a transitional period where there is increasing exposure to Islam in the West as Muslims are finally becoming a more visible part of society there. I would think it would be expected that there would be conflicting opinions as societies begin to feel there way around this new reality and attempt to accommodate the increasing diversity within the society.

 

Doesn't it seem to you that there is something similar going on in Muslim societies as well, as we all are struggling to find the answer to the growing integration of peoples across the globe?

 

Really well stated.

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Hey, lets get real here for a minute, Muslim countries such as Tunisia and Turkey have even banned the hijab in public schools and uiversities. If Muslim countries can ban Muslim traditional dress, then maybe, just maybe you might want to take it up with them.

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Hey, lets get real here for a minute, Muslim countries such as Tunisia and Turkey have even banned the hijab in public schools and uiversities. If Muslim countries can ban Muslim traditional dress, then maybe, just maybe you might want to take it up with them.

In Turkey they also drink alcohol! That does not mean what they do is right. Tunisia and Turkey are not even Islamic states so it is not a good analogy. We understand what is required of us by reading the quran and sunnah not by following political ideologies.

 

Judge Islam by the scripture not by a country.

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In Turkey they also drink alcohol! That does not mean what they do is right. Tunisia and Turkey are not even Islamic states so it is not a good analogy. We understand what is required of us by reading the quran and sunnah not by following political ideologies.

 

Judge Islam by the scripture not by a country.

 

It is not an analogy. It is a fact regarding the discussed subject. The vast majority in both countries are Muslim. My point is that even some Muslim countries have a problem with Islamic (or arabic dress, to be more precise ) traditional dress, and of course, the Turks are not arabs.

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In Turkey they also drink alcohol! That does not mean what they do is right. Tunisia and Turkey are not even Islamic states so it is not a good analogy. We understand what is required of us by reading the quran and sunnah not by following political ideologies.

 

Judge Islam by the scripture not by a country.

 

Turkey and Tunisia are almost completely Muslim. How else should they be judged? There are many nasty things done in the name of your religion. You should speak out against them because they give the world its impression of Islam. We are not going to study the quar'an so we only have actions of others to form our opinions. You should care about what the rest of the world thinks about your religion. You live in the world and your God favors no one over another. This is one thing I am absolutely sure of.

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Ok Turkey for example is 99% Muslim - so what? That doesn't mean the law of their country is right - alcohol is legal - they prevent women from wearing hijab in schools and government places.. does this mean ALL the muslims in Turkey see this as right? There are so many women there who want to wear hijab when they go to school but because of their political history its hard to change but inshaAllah it will change because the current government is more inclined towards Islam and are gaining more votes. No woman should be prevented from covering her hair going to school. However they still allow women to wear burqa/niqab in the street so it doesn't really compare to countries who want to ban or have done so. Your point was that they shouldn't be part of your society at all but they are part of society in Turkey so I don't know how it backs up what you are saying.

 

They are majority muslim countries but they are not Islamic states. Islam is not the basis for the constitution in Turkey , I presume so in Tunisia although I am more knowledgeable on Turkish politics.

 

There are nasty people regardless of religion that's a fact of life and it is not confined to Muslims.

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You're right there wasn't as much exposure as today, however, today there in common daily interaction atleast, there still isn't much exposure.

There is a lot more exposure than you seem to think. It fills are news and I see Muslims on a weekly if not daily basis. There is no comparison to previous generations the amount of interaction with Islam and Muslims as the West has today.

 

Can you elaborate on this more? Do you mean more western foreigners coming to Muslim countries or western ideals?

Yes, western ideals and people, although the population of Westerns is still very low. Much of the exposure to Western people is actually from Muslims immigrating to Western countries, but the combination of media and greater ease of movement does bring increasing interaction with Westerners in Muslim majority countries as well.

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