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BurningLight

Purgatory

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It is similar but not the same.

I'm sorry. I didn't say it was exactly the same. I didn't think that would be expected of two different religions. But it was sufficiently similar that I thought it threw into doubt your claim about Muslims having an innate dislike for the idea.

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Ahmad, I was told that Islam teaches that some of those in hell fire may be brought to heaven after a time. Was this incorrect? Because if it is true it is very simmalr to the teaching of purgatory. It is not a third place but would serve a simmilar purpose.

 

In Christianity hell is the eternal sepparation from God. Those in purgatory would not be eternaly separaited. I kind of view it like jail time. One is forgiven for their sins but that does not mean a penalty does not have to be served.

 

 

I'm sorry. I didn't say it was exactly the same. I didn't think that would be expected of two different religions. But it was sufficiently similar that I thought it threw into doubt your claim about Muslims having an innate dislike for the idea.

 

hello, Workingman

hello, Sad clown

 

yes we have the concept while in fact we have a braoder look for it,

1- every troube in this life even the thorn hurt the man's leg

2- when death many difficulties

3- after buring, in the tomb, some difficulties

4- in day of judgement many difficulties

 

all of this will remove many of the person's sins tell he reachs the paradise, if not

 

5- yes he will spend a while in the hell tell Allah decide

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hello, Workingman

hello, Sad clown

 

yes we have the concept while in fact we have a braoder look for it,

1- every troube in this life even the thorn hurt the man's leg

2- when death many difficulties

3- after buring, in the tomb, some difficulties

4- in day of judgement many difficulties

 

all of this will remove many of the person's sins tell he reachs the paradise, if not

 

5- yes he will spend a while in the hell tell Allah decide

So a form of purgatory exists in Islam

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i think the punishment place mentioned in the NT only are many place, some of them is clearlly described to be everlasting. what is the differences between then, if some can clear that to me,

 

[Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire] Mt 18:8

 

[but the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth] Mt 8:12

 

[but I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire] Mt 5: 22

 

[Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead] Rom 10:7

 

thanks

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As Salaam Alaykum

 

I thought as Muslims we don't believe in purgatory but believe that hell is eternal for some people (disbelievers) and after time some believers will leave it - correct me if I am wrong.

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As Salaam Alaykum

 

I thought as Muslims we don't believe in purgatory but believe that hell is eternal for some people (disbelievers) and after time some believers will leave it - correct me if I am wrong.

 

wa alykom alsalam, sister

 

i'm not sure what purgatory full meaning is!!!

 

I mentioned the concept of removing sins/adding good deeds through some difficulties - for the Moslem and only the Moslem- I believe it is valid. The difficulties either in this life, during death, in the "Barzakh, tomb" in the different stages of the day of judgment or even for a while in "Gahanam, the fire"…. And yes finally every Moslem will get to eternal paradise. by the favor of Allah.

 

there is a famous Hadeeth talk about {even the thorn hurt the Moamen will have a good deed for that, and that only for the Moamen}

 

The disbeliever (who heard, see, and new enough proves about Allah and his attributes and Islam and refused it and refused it), yes he will end down to the eternal* hell fire. by the well of Allah.

 

Plz refer to:

* (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic...p;start=20&"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic...p;start=20&[/url] post #38

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As Salaam Alaykum

 

I thought as Muslims we don't believe in purgatory but believe that hell is eternal for some people (disbelievers) and after time some believers will leave it - correct me if I am wrong.

 

wa alykom alsalam, sister

 

i'm not sure what purgatory full meaning is!!!

 

I mentioned the concept of removing sins/adding good deeds through some difficulties - for the Moslem and only the Moslem- I believe it is valid. The difficulties either in this life, during death, in the "Barzakh, tomb" in the different stages of the day of judgment or even for a while in "Gahanam, the fire"…. And yes finally every Moslem will get to eternal paradise. by the favor of Allah.

 

there is a famous Hadeeth talk about {even the thorn hurt the Moamen will have a good deed for that, and that only for the Moamen}

 

The disbeliever (who heard, see, and new enough proves about Allah and his attributes and Islam and refused it and refused it), yes he will end down to the eternal* hell fire. by the well of Allah.

 

Plz refer to:

* (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic...p;start=20&"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetgawaher(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/index.php?showtopic...p;start=20&[/url] post #38

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i'm not sure what purgatory full meaning is!!!

 

I mentioned the concept of removing sins/adding good deeds through some difficulties - for the Moslem and only the Moslem- I believe it is valid. The difficulties either in this life, during death, in the "Barzakh, tomb" in the different stages of the day of judgment or even for a while in "Gahanam, the fire"…. And yes finally every Moslem will get to eternal paradise. by the favor of Allah.

 

I will add, Ahmad, that is in my admittedly limited understanding of Islam, the time physically spent in the grave (after death but before the Day of Judgment) is itself "purgatorial" if not the place called by Christians Purgatory. That is, if one does have an abundance of wrong-doing or immoral views, then the time in the grave is one of torment -- but it's a torment that may help one to be judged more favorably on DoJ. This is the purpose of Christian Purgatory (again, as I understand it) by means of a different scenario or mechanism. (Buddhists also have the Bardos for a similar goal.)

 

That said, there must be people who have done too much wrong for this Barzakh time to have much influence on their ultimate judgment. And, similarly, there are those who need no torment, thus making their time in the grave a peaceful one.

 

All I might add, though, is that "immoral views" could sometimes be taken as "incorrect theological views." That is, I don't know where the line is drawn from an Islamic perspective between the experience had by an honorable and peaceful Christian who does not accept Mohammed's revelations and a devout Muslim who, say, was unkind to others all his life...

 

I welcome, though, further discussion on this and others' understanding of this Islamic concept!

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I will add, Ahmad, that is in my admittedly limited understanding of Islam, the time physically spent in the grave (after death but before the Day of Judgment) is itself "purgatorial" if not the place called by Christians Purgatory. That is, if one does have an abundance of wrong-doing or immoral views, then the time in the grave is one of torment -- but it's a torment that may help one to be judged more favorably on DoJ. This is the purpose of Christian Purgatory (again, as I understand it) by means of a different scenario or mechanism. (Buddhists also have the Bardos for a similar goal.)

thanks brother for the nice clarification, while in Islam it's just one ring in a long chain, begins in life and ending in paradise, in sha'a Allah

 

That said, there must be people who have done too much wrong for this Barzakh time to have much influence on their ultimate judgment. And, similarly, there are those who need no torment, thus making their time in the grave a peaceful one.

In fact for the good people, beginning with the last step in life way, which is spirit separation from the body tell the end, paradise, it will be honor stages. The spirit will be separated in a very smooth and quick way and the person will be happy for ending the test and you may notice a nice smile on a happy face, though. In tomb he will have good tidings, the tomb will be cool, lighted and nice, ……etc.

 

All I might add, though, is that "immoral views" could sometimes be taken as "incorrect theological views." That is, I don't know where the line is drawn from an Islamic perspective between the experience had by an honorable and peaceful Christian who does not accept Mohammed's revelations and a devout Muslim who, say, was unkind to others all his life….

A tough question for me, and will need more discussions. But generally, from my personal point of view,

 

1- I trust Allah justice, generosity and mercy to the maximum limits, while this will not give me any excuse to disobey him (swt),

2- The same question is still applicable for the good Jew and bad Christian, and may be broader to include the good idolater and the bad Christian.

3- I can resemble it like that if the responsible of a running competition decided to change/modify the rules/course of it, let's say instead of that road we will run in that one. I can't find any excuse for some to keep running in the old course, if sufficiently informed, (but arrogance). Now what the organizers can do for them?

4- They key point here will be did that Christian know that Allah has sent a new messenger with a new code of life?

5- If No, then they will not be condemn for that, Allah tells "017.015 Y: …. No laden soul can bear another's load, we never punish until we have sent a messenger"

6- While if yes, he knew then why he didn't obey the lord? That what Allah will judge the people about

7- Any how, any one will do good in this life he will be rewarded in this life too, and that's seems fair enough

 

I welcome, though, further discussion on this and others' understanding of this Islamic concept!

Every one here welcomes you, including me of course, and all of us here for discussions. And we like to help, feel free to ask any questions,

 

BTW what does Caucasian mean?

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BTW what does Caucasian mean?

 

Haha! :sl:

 

It's just a fancy way of saying, "white person."

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Sad Clown I must say you’re a tough one to figure out. I’ve been reading your posts for months. You seem neither supportive or opposing of religious doctrines whether Christian or Muslim with a few exceptions...

Thanks, I take that as a compliment. I'm here more to share and learn. For me, that means trying to understand other peoples perspective, whether they are Christian or Muslim.

 

Take heed to this passage “I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.” – Revelations 3:15-16

Thank you for the warning. Although considering that I am a confessed apostate of Christianity, I don't think I'm in danger of being lukewarm. In danger of hellfire, possibly, but not lukewarm. I love the truth too much for that.

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I thought as Muslims we don't believe in purgatory but believe that hell is eternal for some people (disbelievers) and after time some believers will leave it - correct me if I am wrong.

No, Muslims don't believe in Purgatory per se. Rather, they have a concept of hell that serves the same purpose as purgatory, while also having a similar function to the Christian's concept of hell. It seems that Muslims see hell as a sort of dual purpose mechanism, while Christianity have split it into hell and purgatory (at least for those Christians who believe in purgatory).

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I will add, Ahmad, that is in my admittedly limited understanding of Islam, the time physically spent in the grave (after death but before the Day of Judgment) is itself "purgatorial" if not the place called by Christians Purgatory. That is, if one does have an abundance of wrong-doing or immoral views, then the time in the grave is one of torment -- but it's a torment that may help one to be judged more favorably on DoJ. This is the purpose of Christian Purgatory (again, as I understand it) by means of a different scenario or mechanism. (Buddhists also have the Bardos for a similar goal.)

I wanted to add my thanks to that of Ahmad. That was a very good contribution. It got me to wondering if there aren't many other religions that have concept that serves a similar purpose.

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