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the sad clown

Turmoil In Egypt Again

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(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetnytimes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2011/12/23/world/middleeast/egypts-prime-minister-adds-more-blame-on-protesters.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetnytimes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/2011/12/23/world/mi...protesters.html[/url]

 

Things seem to be taking a sharp turn for the worse with a growing divide between the military/interim government and the people/other political parties. I had heard about some of the abuses mentioned in the article (particularly the terrible treatment of the woman mentioned), but I didn't realize it had fallen apart quite so much. I hope the military realizes the mistake it is making and backs down and allows for a civilian controlled, democratically elected government, without insisting on any special exemptions for itself.

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PropellerAds
Military is still pro-West. The people are not(especially when it comes to the issue of israel). Hence, the turmoil.

Pro-West or pro-self serving power grab? They may indeed be pro-west, but I don't think that inclination is a necessary element in explaining why people, in this case military leaders in Egypt, would try to cling to power and special privileges.

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As I look through many of these accounts, I find I'm running into the same problem that I've previously experienced: Namely, most of these people speak with such certainty, a trait that I seem to be lacking.

 

I have not had any theophany, any personal and sudden enlightenment to Islam. Nor am I looking for a radically new way to conduct my life.

 

Rather, I find the questions raised by Islam to be the same questions I have. And, I have a number of loved ones in my life who I respect and admire who are themselves Muslim.

 

So, until I find an account along these lines, I continue to ask: How do I know when I am or when I should be Muslim? Again, I doubt that I would be an exemplar (of any religion), but I would like to align myself more genuinely...

 

Yes that too. But they wouldn't be in power if the West stopped backing them so in turn they become 'pro west' to cling onto power.

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Yes that too. But they wouldn't be in power if the West stopped backing them so in turn they become 'pro west' to cling onto power.

They seem to have lost a lot of support in the West as well, if the condemnations of their actions are any indicator.

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there is some thing suspesious happining there....

 

when ever any election stage ends and the results being revealed showing the Islamists advancing, and a part of the sosiety (mostly youth led by a merely secular leaders), began to create trubles (attacking the prime minister building, burning the scientific collection house, one of the most important places in Egypt history).....

 

the army responds very agrisive to that.....while for bad luck the armies is not trained to deal with protesters but enamies.

.

.

the proper solution is to calm down one more month and we will have an elected people's councile to rule the country.

 

may Allah plot againest those who plot against Egypt peace, ......Amen

say Amen.

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The Egyptian military has held onto power for decades. It is going to be a long struggle for the Egyptians if they want a better form of government which serves their interests and not their own.

 

Being pro-West or pro- any foreign power has nothing to do with the struggles of a government hoping to continue oppressing its people. Hopefully the Egyptian revolution can lead to an Egypt where the rights of all Egyptians are protected indefinitely.

 

The only issue I see is this: A democracy, at best, can only represent the values of a people. I hope that those values don't include the same qualities the Egyptian military has demonstrated through corruption and the desire for wealth and power but instead includes the willingness to promote and protect the rights of all, to include minority groups. The modern day Muslim Brotherhood is not the one of yesteryear and their evolution to be socially responsible is commendable. here is an article from them dated October 23, 2011 and gives me some hope.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetikhwanweb(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/article.php?id=29077"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetikhwanweb(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/article.php?id=29077[/url]

 

Race, ethnicity, gender, or religion should be a reason to be divided and all government should apply equal rights to all of its citizens.

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when ever any election stage ends and the results being revealed showing the Islamists advancing, and a part of the sosiety (mostly youth led by a merely secular leaders), began to create trubles (attacking the prime minister building, burning the scientific collection house, one of the most important places in Egypt history).....

I thought the protests were about the need for the military to hand over power (or do so quicker) to civilian authorities. I'm not in Egypt, so I have to depend on reports from news organizations, but they seem fairly unanimous that this is what is motivating the protestors. Here is one article:

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetaljazeera(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/news/middleeast/2011/12/2011122374830994443.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetaljazeera(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/news/middleeast/2...4830994443.html[/url]

 

Here is another I found that seems to deal with the debate that is said to be ongoing in Egypt: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetaljazeera(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/programmes/peopleandpower/2011/12/20111220133541476589.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetaljazeera(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/programmes/people...3541476589.html[/url]

 

Is this an inaccurate portrayal of what is going on in Egypt at this time.

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I thought the protests were about the need for the military to hand over power (or do so quicker) to civilian authorities. I'm not in Egypt, so I have to depend on reports from news organizations, but they seem fairly unanimous that this is what is motivating the protestors. Here is one article:

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetaljazeera(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/news/middleeast/2011/12/2011122374830994443.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetaljazeera(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/news/middleeast/2...4830994443.html[/url]

 

Here is another I found that seems to deal with the debate that is said to be ongoing in Egypt: (you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetaljazeera(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/programmes/peopleandpower/2011/12/20111220133541476589.html"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetaljazeera(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/programmes/people...3541476589.html[/url]

 

Is this an inaccurate portrayal of what is going on in Egypt at this time.

the new government is just been nominated few weeks ago, once this mane "Kamal Al-Ganzory" is being nominated the Egyption Stock market won more than 20 billion EL, which covers a months of bleed. that means, most of the Egyptian trust this man, and he is so professional, expert and honost. why not give him a chance.

 

believe or no, the next day of the stock market raisings, some began to make troubles?!!!

only 100s of those youth keep previnting him from reaching his office tell this moment.....is this seems good

they try to Provoke the army every now and then, to create troubles.

they just acting against the majority, they feel nervous whenever the elections proves their real weight

 

in the 23rd of Jan we will have an elected people's councel that can take part of ruling the country tell June, where the presdintial elections.

 

may Allah grant us, the best among us, to rule us, Amen

say Amen

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the new government is just been nominated few weeks ago, once this mane "Kamal Al-Ganzory" is being nominated the Egyption Stock market won more than 20 billion EL, which covers a months of bleed. that means, most of the Egyptian trust this man, and he is so professional, expert and honost. why not give him a chance.

I do not believe the movement of a stock market is an accurate measure of a man's trustworthiness, professionalism or honesty. If this were true, then wouldn't Mubarak be even better than your current interim president, since the stock market was higher with him.

 

I just want to make sure I am understanding you. Are you saying that the articles I linked to earlier are wrong?

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I do not believe the movement of a stock market is an accurate measure of a man's trustworthiness, professionalism or honesty. If this were true, then wouldn't Mubarak be even better than your current interim president, since the stock market was higher with him.

 

I just want to make sure I am understanding you. Are you saying that the articles I linked to earlier are wrong?

 

in fact i have a very slow net here and i can't access it, may be later, but here is the situation:

1- people council will end by Jan 20

2- a councel of 100 embers to re-write the Egyption constiution will be nominated they will end it withen 3 months

3 a refferendum about it will be held by the mid of May

4- the presedential election will be by the mid of June

 

what is the problem you see here?

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what is the problem you see here?

The problem, at least according to the articles I linked, is that it seems the military is trying to institutionalize special guarantees of their privilege and status in the structure of the upcoming government. At least this is what seems to be the complaint of the protesters as represented in those articles and many like them.

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The problem, at least according to the articles I linked, is that it seems the military is trying to institutionalize special guarantees of their privilege and status in the structure of the upcoming government. At least this is what seems to be the complaint of the protesters as represented in those articles and many like them.

yes, they tried, they launched a test ballons and the people refused and the military retreated so far. they anounced that, and they gave a reasoable scheduale for democracy. and the practical steps shows they seems to be honost.

 

what could be the alternative, other than believing them?

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yes, they tried, they launched a test ballons and the people refused and the military retreated so far. they anounced that, and they gave a reasoable scheduale for democracy. and the practical steps shows they seems to be honost.

 

what could be the alternative, other than believing them?

I think the protesters would like the military to surrender political power to a civilian government before conducting elections. My impression is that some do not trust the military to fairly or properly conduct elections and that they will use this power to manipulate the process in order to reintroduce the special measures that they had to withdraw earlier. Additionally, it seems that they thought a free society would not use lethal force against people protesting what they perceived as abuses, such as the reinstatement of the former prime minister, who they might perceive as being linked to the old regime.

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I think the protesters would like the military to surrender political power to a civilian government before conducting elections.

 

bt again who among the civilian? after Mubarak regime, we have 10s of small and big parties and religion and social groups, non of them trust the other. all of them claim to have the majority of supporters, non of them will admit his real weight except after elections.

 

My impression is that some do not trust the military to fairly or properly conduct elections and that they will use this power to manipulate the process in order to reintroduce the special measures that they had to withdraw earlier.

they did great so far they finished 2/3 of the people council elections, and we have a good sckeduale for the rest.

 

Additionally, it seems that they thought a free society would not use lethal force against people protesting what they perceived as abuses,

what the civilian countries police suppose to do for those who burn the bublic and historical buildings!!!

 

such as the reinstatement of the former prime minister, who they might perceive as being linked to the old regime.

this man is special, he is a acadimic proffesor in planning, the Egyptian economy was great at his period from 1993 to 1997, the first time the Egyptian currency be fixed with respact to others (1$=3.3 EL), Hosney Mubark got ride of him because he began to be a Hero. now 1$=6.01 EL?!!!. and i told you before most of the Egyptians trust him and that was clear in the stock market.

all the period he will responsible for only 6 months tell the new government.

 

i can't see any real cause for these protist actions

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bt again who among the civilian? after Mubarak regime, we have 10s of small and big parties and religion and social groups, non of them trust the other. all of them claim to have the majority of supporters, non of them will admit his real weight except after elections.

they did great so far they finished 2/3 of the people council elections, and we have a good sckeduale for the rest.

I understand you have a different perspective then the protesters. I agree that that opinion is divided in Egypt, as the articles said. I was merely answering your question about what their complaint was. I am in no position to assess the legitimacy of their complaint.

 

what the civilian countries police suppose to do for those who burn the bublic and historical buildings!!!

Something less than what they did. I thought we had agreed that the response was excessive. Surely you don't need to drag women in the street with motorized vehicles in order to stop people from vandalizing buildings.

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Something less than what they did. I thought we had agreed that the response was excessive. Surely you don't need to drag women in the street with motorized vehicles in order to stop people from vandalizing buildings.

sure,

 

(this never hapened and never suppose to happen)

Edited by AHMAD_73

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(this never hapened and never suppose to happen)

Are you saying an incident like that never happened? But I thought they had video recordings of it and other events. These were mentioned in many news outlets.

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Are you saying an incident like that never happened? But I thought they had video recordings of it and other events. These were mentioned in many news outlets.

i saw the vedeo you are taking about, it wasn't as you described at all. why not try to see it

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i saw the vedeo you are taking about, it wasn't as you described at all. why not try to see it

No, you are right. It was a woman stripped down to her underwear being beaten. Thank you for correcting my mistake.

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