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Arab Spring Leading To A Restored Caliphate?

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(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yet######/cbnnews/world/2011/October/Arab-Spring-Feeding-Push-for-Islamic-Caliphate/"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yet######/cbnnews/world/2011/Octo...amic-Caliphate/[/url]

 

I realize that this article was written from a negative perspective of fear, but I thought the question was a good one. Do you think that the events of the Arab Spring are leading toward a restored Caliphate, or at least making it easier for such a restoration? Or do you think it is still too rooted in nationalism to be helpful towards this goal?

 

Also, if anyone has a better article on this subject, I would welcome it.

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The 'Arab Spring' in itself probably won't achieve the re-establishment of the Caliphate, however it is a big help to those who are seeking it's re-establishment. Because now there probably won't be as much restrictions as here have been before. Maybe preachers can now even openly preach to the masses about the issue of the Caliphate, their history and how living under a Caliphate is a religious bound duty for Muslims.

 

The events of this year have made it more easier I would say.

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The events of this year have made it more easier I would say.

How soon do you think this might happen, or is it still too unclear to attempt any sort of estimation?

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How soon do you think this might happen, or is it still too unclear to attempt any sort of estimation?

 

Only Allah knows. There is a hadith where the Prophet(saw) says that Allah will send a reviver every century. Someone who will revive Islam. A Shaykh was saying in a lecture that if we go by that hadith and Islam needs to be revived politically, then, we can say that the Caliphate might be back before the year 2024. Since 1924 was when it was officially abolished. Of course only Allah knows. It could happen much later.

 

There was, I think, a CIA report or something a few years ago where they said the Caliphate might be re-established by the year 2020. I think Al-Qaeda also have some sort of plan which sees it's re-establishment by around 2020.

 

But the bottom line is that only Allah knows. Whether it happens in 10 years, 50 years or whenever is up to Allah. What is a surety, though, is that it will return.

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Do you think that the events of the Arab Spring are leading toward a restored Caliphate, or at least making it easier for such a restoration? Or do you think it is still too rooted in nationalism to be helpful towards this goal?

It would be wonderful if the calpihate was restored and implemented Islam the way it should be implemented but its very hard to say if this will happen soon because there are divisions amongst people. People are proud they are Muslim but I think sometimes they but their national identity before their religion which is sad. I think at least for now Muslim majority countries need to build on relations and make agreements with each other so that there is a stronger connection between them.

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There was, I think, a CIA report or something a few years ago where they said the Caliphate might be re-established by the year 2020.

That seems weird to me that the CIA has a report predicting the restoration of the Caliphate. I have no way of disagreeing with you since I have never even thought to look something like that up, but it just struck me as odd.

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I think at least for now Muslim majority countries need to build on relations and make agreements with each other so that there is a stronger connection between them.

I think that would be beneficial no matter what your opinion was on the Caliphate. I also hope to see such improvements between these countries.

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That seems weird to me that the CIA has a report predicting the restoration of the Caliphate. I have no way of disagreeing with you since I have never even thought to look something like that up, but it just struck me as odd.

 

They even presented a hypothetical scenario where a Caliphate has emerged. Google "Mapping the Global Future".

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There is no Divine institution of the Caliphate. It is why it stopped existing and is why it won't exist again. The following prophecy was written in 1873. The Caliphate officially ended in 1924.

 

O people of Constantinople! Lo, from your midst We hear the baleful hooting of the owl. Hath the drunkenness of passion laid hold upon you, or is it that ye are sunk in heedlessness? O Spot that art situate on the shores of the two seas! The throne of tyranny hath, verily, been established upon thee, and the flame of hatred hath been kindled within thy bosom, in such wise that the Concourse on high and they who circle around the Exalted Throne have wailed and lamented. We behold in thee the foolish ruling over the wise, and darkness vaunting itself against the light. Thou art indeed filled with manifest pride. Hath thine outward splendour made thee vainglorious? By Him Who is the Lord of mankind! It shall soon perish, and thy daughters and thy widows and all the kindreds that dwell within thee shall lament. Thus informeth thee the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.

 

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 52)

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They even presented a hypothetical scenario where a Caliphate has emerged. Google "Mapping the Global Future".

Ah, it makes more sense to me now. They have a bunch of different scenarios including a restored Caliphate.

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There is no Divine institution of the Caliphate. It is why it stopped existing and is why it won't exist again. The following prophecy was written in 1873. The Caliphate officially ended in 1924.

 

O people of Constantinople! Lo, from your midst We hear the baleful hooting of the owl. Hath the drunkenness of passion laid hold upon you, or is it that ye are sunk in heedlessness? O Spot that art situate on the shores of the two seas! The throne of tyranny hath, verily, been established upon thee, and the flame of hatred hath been kindled within thy bosom, in such wise that the Concourse on high and they who circle around the Exalted Throne have wailed and lamented. We behold in thee the foolish ruling over the wise, and darkness vaunting itself against the light. Thou art indeed filled with manifest pride. Hath thine outward splendour made thee vainglorious? By Him Who is the Lord of mankind! It shall soon perish, and thy daughters and thy widows and all the kindreds that dwell within thee shall lament. Thus informeth thee the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.

 

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 52)

I don't think Muslims believe the Baha'i prophesy. Additionally, please be careful to clarify that this statement is according to Baha'i beliefs and not a fact that is acknowledged by those outside of the Baha'i faith.

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Yes, it is definitely from the Baha'i Writings, but I would not say it is an exclusive Baha'i Fact. It is true it was written in 1873 and it is true the prophecy was fulfilled by 1924. Because the fact is largely unknown to others does not change the fact the writing is from 1873 and explicitly fulfilled in 1924. Just because others would not believe the author had the authority of God, does not mean the writing did not exist.

 

Whether it is believed or not, the above writing does in fact exist, whether it is believe in or not.

 

Also, Sad Clown, every Muslim in here would not be confused to mistake a writing of Baha'u'llah to fall within the realm of today's Islam. I do apologize for not prefacing it with, "From the Baha'i Faith" despite stating the author. When Christians post in here, often you don't see "According to Christianity" instead you just know by the statement or argument what the person believes in and what is being represented. When I post about the Qur'an, I am actually expressing belief in the Qur'an. I won't use a religious Book as a source to promote a belief or view I have unless I believe in that Book, even if my interpretations are in the minority. Some of my interpretations are purely personal and need not be prefaced "According to the Baha'i Faith" where instead it is "According to Wesley." This would be silly to do this but if you insist, I will definitely do this.

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Yes, it is definitely from the Baha'i Writings, but I would not say it is an exclusive Baha'i Fact. It is true it was written in 1873 and it is true the prophecy was fulfilled by 1924. Because the fact is largely unknown to others does not change the fact the writing is from 1873 and explicitly fulfilled in 1924. Just because others would not believe the author had the authority of God, does not mean the writing did not exist.

Those are not the "facts" I was concerned with. You made other statements about the future of the caliphate that needed to be qualified.

 

When Christians post in here, often you don't see "According to Christianity" instead you just know by the statement or argument what the person believes in and what is being represented.

You are right, Christians should be doing this as well. You merely had the misfortune of being the first person I came across after having this necessity impressed upon me recently. And despite how silly you think it is, it is part of the rules here which you agreed to follow as part of your participation here.

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Those are not the "facts" I was concerned with. You made other statements about the future of the caliphate that needed to be qualified.

 

According to Wesley: I cannot qualify "Divine Caliphate"or the lack thereof as the Qur'an includes no such concept.

According to Free Dictionary: Divine being proceeded from God.

According to the Qur'an as well as the Baha'i Faith: The Qur'an is from God. Caliphate or any word related to it is not included in the Qur'an. The Qur'an is silent on which person or institution should lead the Muslim nation the Seal of the Prophets once led.

 

And despite how silly you think it is, it is part of the rules here which you agreed to follow as part of your participation here.

 

Question from Wesley: Which rule? I just re-read them and I believe I am missing something.

Edited by Wesley

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According to the Qur'an as well as the Baha'i Faith: The Qur'an is from God. Caliphate or any word related to it is not included in the Qur'an. The Qur'an is silent on which person or institution should lead the Muslim nation the Seal of the Prophets once led.

 

Please stop speaking about the Qur'an. Claiming that there is no word related to the Caliphate is very bold on your part, taking into consideration how many errors you have committed in regards to the Qur'an on this site:

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Caliphate#Qur.27an"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Caliphate#Qur.27an[/url]

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Please stop speaking about the Qur'an. Claiming that there is no word related to the Caliphate is very bold on your part, taking into consideration how many errors you have made concerning the Qur'an on this site:

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Caliphate#Qur.27an"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_en.wikipedia(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/wiki/Caliphate#Qur.27an[/url]

 

Dawud! Verily, We have placed you as a successor (Caliph in the Arabic) on the earth; so judge you between men in truth (and justice) and follow not your desire -- for it will mislead you from the path of Allah. Verily, those who wander astray from the path of Allah (shall) have a severe torment, because they forgot the Day of Reckoning (38:26)

 

+

 

God has promised those of you who have attained to faith and do righteous deeds that, of a certainty, He will make them Khulifa on earth, even as He caused [some of] those who lived before them to become Khulifa; and that, of a certainty, He will firmly establish for them the religion which He has been pleased to bestow on them; and that, of a certainty, He will cause their erstwhile state of fear to be replaced by a sense of security [seeing that] they worship Me [alone], not ascribing divine powers to aught beside Me. But all who, after [having understood] this, choose to deny the truth – it is they, they who are truly iniquitous!" [24:55] (Surah Al-Nur, Verse 55) (From the above wiki link)

 

Now please stop speaking about the Qur'an.

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Question from Wesley: Which rule? I just re-read them and I believe I am missing something.

I hope that was entertaining for you. Here is the rule: 14- Non-believers putting religious lie in factual sentence: warn

 

I have defended you in the past. I hope you can recognize that I have your interests in mind when I advise you in this manner. I realize this might make things more difficult for you, but as you know, the nature of Baha'i make such clarifications even more important because there is a greater propensity for confusion when comparing and constrasting the two than with other religious traditions.

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Dawud! Verily, We have placed you as a successor (Caliph in the Arabic) on the earth; so judge you between men in truth (and justice) and follow not your desire -- for it will mislead you from the path of Allah. Verily, those who wander astray from the path of Allah (shall) have a severe torment, because they forgot the Day of Reckoning (38:26)

 

+

 

God has promised those of you who have attained to faith and do righteous deeds that, of a certainty, He will make them Khulifa on earth, even as He caused [some of] those who lived before them to become Khulifa; and that, of a certainty, He will firmly establish for them the religion which He has been pleased to bestow on them; and that, of a certainty, He will cause their erstwhile state of fear to be replaced by a sense of security [seeing that] they worship Me [alone], not ascribing divine powers to aught beside Me. But all who, after [having understood] this, choose to deny the truth – it is they, they who are truly iniquitous!" [24:55] (Surah Al-Nur, Verse 55) (From the above wiki link)

 

Now please stop speaking about the Qur'an.

 

Surah 024.055... Below in Bold are three translations. None suggest the Caliphate is the successorship. Caliph is from the word khalīfah. The word you cited above, Khulifa, means successor. The translation you used creates the word as a noun. Both words have the same root, KhLF, but are not the same word. KhLF at the root means "to take the place of or to differ." It is a verb. Khalifah, is also a verb, which means "to succeed" or "to do in someone's place." The first time the word KhLF became a noun was when the Muslims had to figure out who would succeed the Seal of the Prophets. There was confusion as to who would. Some felt Ali should be the successor, others thought it should be by consensus of elders. The word "Caliph" which only means "Successor" became a formalized title of the position Abu Bakr was nominated for. In the Qur'an, you have the verb form. There was no formal noun version of the root KhLF in the Qur'an, although newer translations into English suggest KhLF as a noun. You can say humans created the Title of Caliph only as a response to no formal Title existing in the Qur'an.

 

Conclusion: God used KhLF as a verb and never as a title or noun. Humans later created a new title based upon the verb. Caliphate, human creation.

 

YUSUFALI: Allah has promised, to those among you who believe and work righteous deeds, that He will, of a surety, grant them in the land, inheritance (of power), as He granted it to those before them; that He will establish in authority their religion - the one which He has chosen for them; and that He will change (their state), after the fear in which they (lived), to one of security and peace: 'They will worship Me (alone) and not associate aught with Me. 'If any do reject Faith after this, they are rebellious and wicked.

 

PICKTHAL: Allah hath promised such of you as believe and do good work that He will surely make them to succeed (the present rulers) in the earth even as He caused those who were before them to succeed (others); and that He will surely establish for them their religion which He hath approved for them, and will give them in exchange safety after their fear. They serve Me. They ascribe no thing as partner unto Me. Those who disbelieve henceforth, they are the miscreants.

 

SHAKIR: Allah has promised to those of you who believe and do good that He will most certainly make them rulers in the earth as He made rulers those before them, and that He will most certainly establish for them their religion which He has chosen for them, and that He will most certainly, after their fear, give them security in exchange; they shall serve Me, not associating aught with Me; and whoever is ungrateful after this, these it is who are the. transgressors.

 

Surah 38:26. The root word you are seeing is KhLF, and is like khaleefatan. Slightly different. Pickthal and Rodwell says it means "viceroy." Yusuf Ali and Palmer says "vicegerent."

 

Vicegerent definition is "an appointed deputy"." In this case, King David was appointed by God to perform certain functions. As King David was a Messenger who received the Psalms (4:163). King David certaintly had a Divine function.

 

Newer translations are saying KhLF means "successor" such as the Qur'an used on the Dar-as-Salam (Sunni) website, translated by Dr. Hilali, who lived from 1893-1987. I strongly believe the more modern translation was designed to fit more modern beliefs rather than the translation following traditional meanings. XLF does not mean Caliph and Surah 38:26 does not establish King David as a Caliph, as Caliph (noun) was never used by God in the Qur'an.

 

The question when doing a translation of Scripture is "What was the meaning of the word when God used it?" not "What is the modern meaning of the word, even if the meaning has changed over time."

 

There is a definite reason why some newer translations could change the meaning of a word, which is of course to promote what the translators believed in.

Edited by Wesley

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How would you settle such a dispute over the meaning of this word. I suppose we would need additional examples of it and related words to see how they are translated in various contexts.

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Surah 024.055... Below in Bold are three translations. None suggest the Caliphate is the successorship.

 

Did you even read the three translations?

 

Allah has promised, to those among you who believe and work righteous deeds, that He will, of a surety, grant them in the land, inheritance (of power),

 

Allah hath promised such of you as believe and do good work that He will surely make them to succeed (the present rulers) in the earth

 

Allah has promised to those of you who believe and do good that He will most certainly make them rulers in the earth as He made rulers those before them,

 

It is quite clear that the three translations speak of rule.

 

Caliph is from the word khalīfah. The word you cited above, Khulifa, means successor. The translation you used creates the word as a noun. Both words have the same root, KhLF, but are not the same word. KhLF at the root means "to take the place of or to differ." It is a verb. Khalifah, is also a verb, which means "to succeed" or "to do in someone's place." The first time the word KhLF became a noun was when the Muslims had to figure out who would succeed the Seal of the Prophets. There was confusion as to who would. Some felt Ali should be the successor, others thought it should be by consensus of elders. The word "Caliph" which only means "Successor" became a formalized title of the position Abu Bakr was nominated for. In the Qur'an, you have the verb form. There was no formal noun version of the root KhLF in the Qur'an, although newer translations into English suggest KhLF as a noun. You can say humans created the Title of Caliph only as a response to no formal Title existing in the Qur'an.

 

Conclusion: God used KhLF as a verb and never as a title or noun. Humans later created a new title based upon the verb. Caliphate, human creation.

 

You are wrong. The Qur'an uses the word khalifa as a noun. It is used in reference to David (pbuh) as a noun, for example, and in even in regards to Adam/man (pbuh). Where did you get the idea that khalifa is a verb? What is your source? I have never seen a verb with a "ta marbutah". I could be wrong though. I have to confirm this. If you mean the word "khalafa", then that is a verb, but it is not the same as "khalifah". The word in 24:55 is an actual verb, however. It is not a noun in verse 24:55.

 

It is quite clear that the Qur'an speaks of rule and orders to establish it. I am not going to get hung up on the word Caliph because in the past it wasn't even the most used title. Amir-ul-Muminen/the Commander of the Believers was.

 

Surah 38:26. The root word you are seeing is KhLF, and is like khaleefatan. Slightly different. Pickthal and Rodwell says it means "viceroy." Yusuf Ali and Palmer says "vicegerent."

 

So the word in 38:26 is not khaleefatan / ÎóáöíÝóÉð[using large font size is not allowed] ?

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Listen Wesley. Are we supposed to throw 1400 years of history, scholarly work and most importantly the Quran and Sunnah behind our back and believe some random kafir on the internet? Please stick to your own religion, we do not need you to teach us our religion.

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So the word in 38:26 is not khaleefatan / خَلِيفَةً[using large font size is not allowed] ?

alsalamo alykom, brother

yes it is, while that pronounce is due to the "Tashkeel". the main word is "Khaleefah خليفة", while the same word can be pronounced "khaleefatan / خَلِيفَةً" or "khaleefaton / خَلِيفَةُ or "khaleefatin / خَلِيفَةٍ" either have the tashkeel ( ً or ّ or ٍ ) which depend on the position of the word in the statement. it's an Arbic language science called "Al-Nahoo wa Al-sarff"

 

allow me to start from the beginning,

 

all the words (verbs, nouns, adjectives,…) that came out of the root word (Kha-La-Fa, خَـلَـفَ) will be in the area of, came after to take control of something in case of the transient or permanent absence of him.

 

the word "khalf خَـلْـفَ" means after, either in place or time. he came after (خَـلْـفَ) me. my house is behind (خَـلْـفَ) yours.

 

the word "Khalifah, خَليفة " means came after to take his place (ruler, owner, professor, football player,....). it's ok to say: Ronaldoo is the, Khaleefah (take place) of Maradoonah in the play maker position. although Maradoonah still alive, while he left this position to other person.

 

Abo-Baker is the Khalefah of the prophet of Allah, took his place in ruling the Moslem nation. Omar is called the Kalifah of the khalifah of Rasoul Allah.

 

the verb will be "yastakhlef يَستخلف "...in present, and "Istakhlaf إستخلف "… in past",

the prophet "Istakhlaf" Ibn-Omm Maktoom on the Madeenah, tell his return from such journy/travel/Ghazoah ..means nominate him to be in charge of Madeenah tell his return.

 

the sons of Adam are called "khalaeef..خلائف " it means the new generation will take the place of the old generation generally on this earth.

 

now,

Allah tells "....i'll make a "khalifah" in earth...." it have the two indications i'll give him some specified control in the earth, and they will substitute each other.

 

"... Allah has promised, to those among you who believe and work righteous deeds, that He will, of a surely, "yastakhlfanhom يَستخلفنهم "them in the land.... " don't surelly means they will rule the whole land but they will be the best in sight of god and the others, the good example. the reminder of the verse talk about "just like those before" which generally we can't say some people ruled the whole earth before. and talk about "substituting the fear by feeling safe".

 

the USA don't occupy every single country, while we can say it is in control of the world.

 

Sure, in Shaa Allah, the Islamic State will come back and will be the most safe, advanced, strong and merciful nation on the earth. How/who will lead them….i'll replay to that very soon inshaa Allah.

 

Allah knows best

Edited by AHMAD_73

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alsalamo alykom, brother

yes it is, while that pronounce is due to the "Tashkeel". the main word is "Khaleefah خليفة", while the same word can be pronounced "khaleefatan / خَلِيفَةً" or "khaleefaton / خَلِيفَةُ or "khaleefatin / خَلِيفَةٍ" either have the tashkeel ( ً or ّ or ٍ ) which depend on the position of the word in the statement. it's an Arbic language science called "Al-Nahoo wa Al-sarff"

 

allow me to start from the beginning,

 

all the words (verbs, nouns, adjectives,…) that came out of the root word (Kha-La-Fa, خَـلَـفَ) will be in the area of, came after to take control of something in case of the transient or permanent absence of him.

 

the word "khalf خَـلْـفَ" means after, either in place or time. he came after (خَـلْـفَ) me. my house is behind (خَـلْـفَ) yours.

 

the word "Khalifah, خَليفة " means came after to take his place (ruler, owner, professor, football player,....). it's ok to say: Ronaldoo is the, Khaleefah (take place) of Maradoonah in the play maker position. although Maradoonah still alive, while he left this position to other person.

 

Abo-Baker is the Khalefah of the prophet of Allah, took his place in ruling the Moslem nation. Omar is called the Kalifah of the khalifah of Rasoul Allah.

 

the verb will be "yastakhlef يَستخلف "...in present, and "Istakhlaf إستخلف "… in past",

the prophet "Istakhlaf" Ibn-Omm Maktoom on the Madeenah, tell his return from such journy/travel/Ghazoah ..means nominate him to be in charge of Madeenah tell his return.

 

the sons of Adam are called "khalaeef..خلائف " it means the new generation will take the place of the old generation generally on this earth.

 

now,

Allah tells "....i'll make a "khalifah" in earth...." it have the two indications i'll give him some specified control in the earth, and they will substitute each other.

 

"... Allah has promised, to those among you who believe and work righteous deeds, that He will, of a surely, "yastakhlfanhom يَستخلفنهم "them in the land.... " don't surelly means they will rule the whole land but they will be the best in sight of god and the others, the good example. the reminder of the verse talk about "just like those before" which generally we can't say some people ruled the whole earth before. and talk about "substituting the fear by feeling safe".

 

the USA don't occupy every single country, while we can say it is in control of the world.

 

Sure, in Shaa Allah, the Islamic State will come back and will be the most safe, advanced, strong and merciful nation on the earth. How/who will lead them….i'll replay to that very soon inshaa Allah.

 

Allah knows best

 

Wa alaikumu as-salamu, brother

 

I know that khaleefatan is in the verse. I quoted that word in Arabic directly from the Qur'an. I asked that question to Wesley because he said the following: "Surah 38:26. The root word you are seeing is KhLF, and is like khaleefatan. Slightly different. Pickthal and Rodwell says it means "viceroy." Yusuf Ali and Palmer says "vicegerent." It's quite clear Wesley doesn't have a clue what he is talking about here when he says that the word in the verse is like "khaleefatan", slightly different, when the word in none other than khaleefatan.

 

Thank you for your informative post, brother. One more question though. Wesley said that the word khalifah is a verb in the Qur'an, not a noun. Is this correct? I have never seen a verb with a "ta marbutah" (like the word khalifa) or thought of it is a an actual verb. My understanding is that it is a noun. So, I'd appreciate your input on this.

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I just want to say that I have really enjoyed this discussion. It has been very interesting from a linguistic standpoint. My thanks especially to thode members who have contributed their knowledge of Arabic.

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Wa alaikumu as-salamu, brother

 

I know that khaleefatan is in the verse. I quoted that word in Arabic directly from the Qur'an. I asked that question to Wesley because he said the following: "Surah 38:26. The root word you are seeing is KhLF, and is like khaleefatan. Slightly different. Pickthal and Rodwell says it means "viceroy." Yusuf Ali and Palmer says "vicegerent." It's quite clear Wesley doesn't have a clue what he is talking about here when he says that the word in the verse is like "khaleefatan", slightly different, when the word in none other than khaleefatan.

 

Thank you for your informative post, brother. One more question though. Wesley said that the word khalifah is a verb in the Qur'an, not a noun. Is this correct? I have never seen a verb with a "ta marbutah" (like the word khalifa) or thought of it is a an actual verb. My understanding is that it is a noun. So, I'd appreciate your input on this.

alsalamo alykom, brother

 

you are right Khalifah is a noun, and yes there is no verb will end with "ta marbutah ة "

 

i feel i don't hit the point, so plz, if wonna further questions, do it

Edited by AHMAD_73

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