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missjupiter

A Question About Forced Conversion?

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I respect the radical Muslims the most because they tell you what their true agenda is and what they are willing to do to accomplish Sharia law. I feel they have the best understanding of the Quran. If Sharia law takes over and you want to remain a non-Muslim, you will pay higher taxes and you'll be frowned on.

So the peaceful Muslims are lying to you about their agenda? And how would you know that extremists have the best understanding of the Qur'an? Are you now an expert at Islamic theology and can tell who has the most accurate interpretation? And how much are the taxes for non-Muslims going to be verses Muslims? Where are you getting that assertion from?

 

I know one day we will all be handed a one ticket back to the 7th century. People like me will no doubt be killed. Many will conform on the surface to spare their lives or practice their religion in secret. This is on its way to Europe and America in the near future.

You sound paranoid. Why do you have no doubt that you will be killed? And how near a future are you talking about?

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There is no democracy in Islam, just as there is no Islam in democracy. They're two different systems.

 

But you didn't answer the question. If no such provision is made that people of an Islamic State can rule themselves outside of the power of the state itself, do you consider that unfair? When I ask this, it brings to mind how non-Muslims in the western world are nearly up in arms because they're afraid Muslims want to have the freedom to govern themselves with Shari'ah in the U.S or England.

 

Salam.

 

The state should not have been imposed upon them [dhimmis] in the first place. Ruling themselves (albeit with limits as we've previously discussed) under the Islamic state is not the solution - removing the regime is.

Edited by missjupiter

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There is no democracy in Islam, just as there is no Islam in democracy. They're two different systems.

 

But you didn't answer the question. If no such provision is made that people of an Islamic State can rule themselves outside of the power of the state itself, do you consider that unfair? When I ask this, it brings to mind how non-Muslims in the western world are nearly up in arms because they're afraid Muslims want to have the freedom to govern themselves with Shari'ah in the U.S or England.

 

Salam.

 

It's taken me several years to actually see somebody come out and say this!

 

So my first question is: Does this therefore mean that a Muslim minority can impose a dictorship (as we would call it) upon the majority in a given country?

 

The second question is: if there is no democracy in Islam, does this mean there is no democracy within Islam? Therefore an unelected elite of some sort rule (the party) by (again) a dictatorship of domination?

 

Salaam,

 

ron

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Democracy is an ambiguous term, since it can mean anything from a direct democracy to something like a constitutional republic, and not all criticisms are valid across the spectrum. Perhaps you could clarify what you mean?

Yes you are right there are many forms of democracy and I don't think it is implemented correctly even though people like to go on and on about it. Well as a Muslim a state based on Islam would be better in my opinion but that does not mean I don't think some democratic values are in conflict with Islam. Justice is a democratic value but it also is a value of Islam. Also rule of law is a democratic value and rule of law has a place in Islam. Of course there are then values in which they both clash. I wasn't criticising all of democratic values but I was criticising democracy as a system because it is based on majority rule. In my opinion the majority are not always right and in fact the majority can be very wrong at times which history shows. Whereas I don't doubt the word of God to be wrong and I know that is very hard for some people to accept.

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Yes you are right there are many forms of democracy and I don't think it is implemented correctly even though people like to go on and on about it. Well as a Muslim a state based on Islam would be better in my opinion but that does not mean I don't think some democratic values are in conflict with Islam. Justice is a democratic value but it also is a value of Islam. Also rule of law is a democratic value and rule of law has a place in Islam. Of course there are then values in which they both clash. I wasn't criticising all of democratic values but I was criticising democracy as a system because it is based on majority rule. In my opinion the majority are not always right and in fact the majority can be very wrong at times which history shows. Whereas I don't doubt the word of God to be wrong and I know that is very hard for some people to accept.

 

 

"The majority is always wrong; the minority is rarely right."

Henrik Ibsen

 

 

Regards,

 

ron

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Okay... back to the topic please.

 

Lost In Paradise, what is the context of Churchill's statement since he benefited from democracy?????

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So the peaceful Muslims are lying to you about their agenda? And how would you know that extremists have the best understanding of the Qur'an? Are you now an expert at Islamic theology and can tell who has the most accurate interpretation? And how much are the taxes for non-Muslims going to be verses Muslims?
I am not an expert and I don't know the details. I don't know if peaceful Muslims lie about their agendas, but I just believe that radical Islam gives me a true picture of Islam. I am just calling it the way i see it.

Where are you getting that assertion from?

You sound paranoid. Why do you have no doubt that you will be killed? And how near a future are you talking about?

I get this information from people who have witnessed it and know the laws described in Sharia. I am not paranoid about this, but I see it comming in the very near future such has our generation. Just like I see a judgment day comming for all mankind.

Edited by BurningLight

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The second question is: if there is no democracy in Islam, does this mean there is no democracy within Islam? Therefore an unelected elite of some sort rule (the party) by (again) a dictatorship of domination?

 

Let me rephrase.

 

Islam is not a system built on democracy. It's built on the laws of Allah. If Allah gives us elements of democracy, that does not make Islam a democratic system of government. It's still Islam.

 

Salam.

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Let me rephrase.

 

Islam is not a system built on democracy. It's built on the laws of Allah. If Allah gives us elements of democracy, that does not make Islam a democratic system of government. It's still Islam.

 

Salam.

 

 

I understand what you are saying, in a general sense. But what I'm interested in is how the idea of the sense of democracy might work in terms of any contribution from ordinary people living under (or in) an Islamic (Sharia) state. In other words how would people's voices be heard?

So to refer you back to my post which there appears to be some issue with. I would like to know, more specifically in a state which would be a state based upon Sharia law, how the concept of a 'democratic' sytem (i.e. peoples voices being heard) would fit in to it.

 

I had a slight problem with what you said on an earlier post, by the way: you said "There is no Islam within democracy" (and vice versa). I would beg to differ, at least in the Uk there are MP's (members of parliement) who are actually Muslims. Don't you have that in the US?

 

Regards,

 

ron

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^

 

Salam.

 

I'm confused as to how having Muslims in parliament makes a democracy have Islam in it.

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I understand what you are saying, in a general sense. But what I'm interested in is how the idea of the sense of democracy might work in terms of any contribution from ordinary people living under (or in) an Islamic (Sharia) state. In other words how would people's voices be heard?

 

Democratic elections might or might not be allowed in Islam. I really couldn't tell you. I haven't studied this aspect of Shari'ah.

 

I had a slight problem with what you said on an earlier post, by the way: you said "There is no Islam within democracy" (and vice versa). I would beg to differ, at least in the Uk there are MP's (members of parliement) who are actually Muslims. Don't you have that in the US?

 

What I meant was that Islam isn't the definition of democracy and democracy isn't the definition of Islam. Nonetheless, the fact that there are Muslims on non-Islamic parliaments doesn't make the parliaments Islamic. I don't think that their religious standings have any influence on the government itself.

 

Salam.

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^

 

Salam.

 

I'm confused as to how having Muslims in parliament makes a democracy have Islam in it.

 

 

Well, having an Islamic voice is surely, to some extent, to have Islam within the democratic state. There is nothing in English law prohibiting Muslims from contributing to society.

 

regards,

 

ron

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