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Non-religious Evidence That God Exists

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Hi Andalusi

 

I understand that you believe that god ‘programmed them’ to adapt to different situations as you say like switches turning on and off but we know that’s not true.  Imagine a book, a long complex book of instructions, that is basically what the RNA in these bacteria represents.  Now you could have instructions in the book that say use this bit in this situation but ignore it in this other situation.  Conditional instructions much like a computer program that’s basically what you are suggesting.  That is not just possible but it’s real, it happens all the time in organisms.  It’s how our one DNA line can produce heart cells, and blood cells and brain cells etc all with exactly the same DNA code.  It’s a well understood and often observed phenomenon but that’s not what’s happening with those Bacteria.

 

In the bacteria you have to understand that the chapter which explains how to digest fructose isn’t there.  It’s not just turned off, we know what it says because we’ve sequenced its RNA since it arose so we can search for it and in the original RNA pattern it’s not there.  The progenitor of those colonies could not digest fructose so if that was all the food they had to use they would simply die.  Now after thousands and thousands of generations we see a new chapter in that book.  One that didn’t exist before.  We’ve watched it appear piece by piece by tiny changes to existing RNA until the new chapter which allows these bacteria to digest fructose is there and working and now, for the first time, one of the 8 colonies who began from a single bacteria, can digest, can live on Fructose while the others are still incapable of it and will still die out if that is all they have to ‘eat’.

 

The critical things about this are that the original colonies all started from just one individual bacterium.  Bacteria are not sexual; they reproduce by simply duplicating their one loop of RNA then splitting into two.  Unlike humans, which are diploid, in other words we carry two strands of DNA one from each parent, they don’t have two strands of RNA.  For bacteria there is literally no variability within a single individual.  Bacterial RNA is also very tight, any RNA that is not necessary to the organisms’ survival is pruned out because it costs energy to reproduce it so, unlike our DNA, it does not contain large segment of ‘junk’ code.  Their code is virtually all functional and contains exactly one copy of each gene.

 

So all of those colonies started from just one individual which contained no variations on the RNA code it possessed yet over thousands of generations that code has changed, has adapted to a new environment, has written a new chapter, has evolved while we watched one step at a time to the many varieties we see today.  Do you really believe that god spends so much time in biology labs to do that one small step at a time while we watch his every move? Why? Why only one of the 8 colonies?  This makes no sense!  The evolutionary view makes sense but your view just doesn’t when faced with this evidence.

 

So what do you think, does your god really spend that much time in biology labs trying to fool scientists into believing that evolution is true?  Is that trickster really your god?  The evidence doesn’t allow for an alternative here, new chapters appear piece by piece while we watch, no switches involved, they just appear slowly just as evolutionary theory describes.

 

Russell

 

as i said i cant accept that random events create complex structure, if you can beleive in that , then believe it i cant. 

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Hi Andalusi

 

Yes I understand that you don’t understand enough of this to believe it, the evidence is there if you are willing to study it but you aren’t are you?  The details of those bacterial experiments directly contradict your statements here and I suspect that is why you won’t study them in detail.  You’ve already found “the truth” and don’t want to expose yourself to evidence that will undermine it.  That’s sad really; the evidence from science and the theories that come out of that are too scary for you to look into because they may upset your pre-existing belief system.  One of the beauties of my position is that I am not scared to look into, to read and study, any ideas because I believe that the data will lead us to the truth so I don’t need to be scared of any new information no matter what it’s source.

 

“I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.”

 

Russell

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Hi Andalusi

 

Yes I understand that you don’t understand enough of this to believe it, the evidence is there if you are willing to study it but you aren’t are you?  The details of those bacterial experiments directly contradict your statements here and I suspect that is why you won’t study them in detail.  You’ve already found “the truth” and don’t want to expose yourself to evidence that will undermine it.  That’s sad really; the evidence from science and the theories that come out of that are too scary for you to look into because they may upset your pre-existing belief system.  One of the beauties of my position is that I am not scared to look into, to read and study, any ideas because I believe that the data will lead us to the truth so I don’t need to be scared of any new information no matter what it’s source.

 

“I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.”

 

Russell

 

i am not scared of new infomration i just dont understand connection between random events and complex structures, that is not logical at all, for me it is more logical to believe that creator/God created these complex structures.

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Before Reading:  

There are 2 fundamental principles underlying Islam. These principles highlight the base of Islam! The principles that must be applied are that:

 

1.) The Quran must be clear so that it compels those whose hearts are open, but it must be sufficiently vague so it doesn't compel those whose hearts are closed (or unwilling to believe).

 

2.) The Quran is meant for all times and places, therefore, it must logically follow that it must support 7th century belief  and modern belief simultaneously without contradicting either belief. 

 

 

3.) The Quran's language is in Arabic. Arabic is a rich language which allows for multiple valid translations. Therefore the Quran maintains multiple valid translations. If you think there is a contradiction in the Quran, you must ask yourself:

  •           -Have I made any unverified assumptions?
  •           -Have I considered all possible definitions of the words?
  •           -Have I considered all possible translations of the words?
  •           -Have I considered all grammatical syntactic definitions/renderings?

Explaining the first principle: 

(The video posted below highlights the main points expressed here)

 

"The Quran must be clear so that it compels those whose hearts are open, but it must be sufficiently vague so it doesn't compel those whose hearts are closed (or unwilling to believe)"

 

It is absolutely important to note that there is no full complete physical proof of Allah's existence. Many Atheists see this as proof that God doesn't exist and therefore they make that assertion. Contrary to their beliefs, Islam has an answer:

 

Life is like a multiple choice exam. If you pick the wrong choices throughout the exam, you will be punished. If you pick the right choices throughout the exam, you will be rewarded! The exam is going to be very difficult and it will have many tricks in it to test you. If the Quran or the universe were presented with clear, 100% proof of certainty in God's existence, then everyone believes in the Quran and in God. It would be like the professor decides to give you the answers to the exam. The whole point of your existence is to not have 100% proof of certainty that Allah exists. 

 

What is necessary to pass the test?

1.) Belief in God and the oneness of God

2.) Belief that God's final revelation onto mankind is the Quran

3.) Adhering to the laws and duties put forth by the Quran

 

You must believe in God and you must believe the Quran is the word of God. That is how you pass the test. Allah will not give you proof of his existence nor will he give you complete proof that the Quran is from him, because if he had done so, it would violate your purpose in life. (Note: The third necessary item requires that you believe in God and the Quran being his word). 

 

 

A good professor is one that does not give you the answers to the exam, rather, the professor provides you with the tools and information and lets you analyze, interpret and apply that information to reach a conclusion on the exam question! If the professor were to give you the answers to the exam, it would violate the purpose of the exam. If Allah were to give you proof of his existence it would violate your purpose in life-to worship Allah without proof of his existence. Instead, he gives signs and hints that point to his existence! 

 

Therefore it must logically follow that those signs and hints must not clearly prove with complete certainty the existence of Allah or that the Quran is from him, rather they must hint at the existence of God and the Quran. And those signs and hints, must therefore be sufficient to that it compels those whose hearts are open, but they must be sufficiently vague so they doesn't compel those whose hearts are unwilling. 

 

Quranic Analysis Corresponding to the first principle:

(Quran 76:3) Verily, We created man from a drop of mingled sperm so that We may test him; 

(Quran 67:2) [Allah is he] Who created death and life to test you [as to] which of you is best in deed.

(Quran 29:2) Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tested?

 

We are created so that we get tested and to see how well we would be obedient to Allah:

(Quran 51:56) And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship/be obedient to Me.

 

^Out of ALL of Allah's creations, we were created with the purpose to worship Allah (other creatures may have different purposes). So if the purpose of our creation is to be tested, and Allah proves his existence to everyone: Then everyone passes the test. It would be like a college professor giving you the answers to the exam--What's the point of the exam? 

 

Further, the Quran highlights how people were asking the prophet for proof of God and Allah has refused. Instead, Allah points the disbelievers at a sign and asks them to reflect:

 

(Quran 26:3) Perhaps, [O Muhammad], you would kill yourself with grief that they will not be believers.

(Quran 26:4) If We willed, We could send down to them from the sky a sign for which their necks would be forced to bow

(Quran 26:5) And no revelation/signs comes to them anew from the Most Merciful except that they turn away from it.

(Quran 26:6) For they have already denied, but there will come to them the news of that which they used to ridicule.

(Quran 26:7) Did they not look at the earth - how much We have produced therein from every noble kind?

(Quran 26:8) Indeed in that is a sign, but most of them were not to be believers

 

^In here you have a case in which Allah reassures the prophet Muhammad to stop grieving because people disbelieve.  Allah could have sent a strong piece of evidence or proof of his existence, but Allah says that he only sends signs and that those signs are not meant to make everyone believe and worship Allah. Then Allah points them to a sign of his existence-not complete proof. 

 

The signs are there for those who think, ponder and wish to surrender to such a formidable force. While those who do not wish to obey, they are given their excuses to keep themselves aloof a satisfaction. Notice how the Quran is vague and indirect on this topic. The Quran didn't directly specify why Allah refuses to give us proof he exists, rather, he chooses to only give signs of his existence. The Quran lets the reader apply and interpret this information to reach a conclusion (remember, life is a test-an intellectual journey). A good professor does not give you the direct information needed to pass the exam, rather, he gives you bits and pieces of different information and allows you to analyze and interpret that information to reach a conclusion in the thought provoking exam question. If Allah were to directly  give you his reason as to why he refuses to give proof of himself, then it would the test easy for humans. The test is not designed to be easy. Allah allows those who are sincerely searching for truth to interpret, apply and analyze this information in the Quran to reach a reasonable conclusion. Allah also simultaneously allows those who are arrogant, intellectually dishonest or not looking for truth to have their excuses and reasons to reject Allah and the Quran. This is also analogous to how a professor designs the exam (with the right difficulty) so that it allows those who studied well in getting the right answers and simultaneously allows those who didn't study well in getting the wrong answers to the thought-provoking questions. 

 

Edkip Yuksel has said: "In order for any test to be valid, the receiver of the test must have the option of different choices. If the receiver had no choice there would be no test. The choice of the receiver determines his success or failure in the test that has been set. As an example, suppose you would like to test your 6 year old son and see whether he will obey you or not. You take him to his room and ask him not to leave the room. You leave the door open so he is given the choice whether to obey you and stay, or to disobey you and leave the room. The fact that you have given him two choices: the good (obey you), and the bad (disobey you) means that there was indeed a valid test. Now let us suppose you have done the same as above but this time you locked the door. In this case your son does not have the option of disobeying you. You come back after one hour and find him still inside the room, but this time, was he really tested? The answer is no, because your son had no option of disobeying you, and thus he had no choice.When we import this logic to the multi-meaning verses in the Quran, we find that among various other ways God has tested us, one test is by deliberately including the multi-meaning verses in the Quran."

 

In 3:7 we read:

(Quran 3:7) He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who have perversity in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning.

 

The ones who are honest are those who apply the Quranic verses to reach a reasonable conclusion, and then there are the ones who's hearts are perverse will abuse these multi-meaning verses to create confusion. Therefore, the verses in the Quran are a deliberate test set by God. 

 

In conclusion, the Quran explicitly states that Allah refuses to give proof of his existence and rather he wants humans to reflect upon the signs he has given to choose whether or not to worship Allah. In which case, it would be required, In order to maintain the structure of the test, for the signs to be clear so that it compels those whose hearts are open, but they must be sufficiently vague so it doesn't compel those whose hearts are closed (or unwilling to believe). A good analogy would be a professor giving you hints and information on the exam that don't reveal the answer to the exam for those who didn't study, but sufficiently guides those who truly studied in getting the right answer. 

 

Please watch the following video on this topic:

 
Side note: The test which we are to undergo is not meant to add to the knowledge of God. Although God knows everything, it still is necessary that all men and women be put to test so that the true form of God's justice and mercy may emerge on the Day of Judge­ment. If God were to send all persons to Paradise or Hell according to His own knowledge without put­ting them to test for their beliefs and deeds, then those sent to Hell could rightly complain that why were they being punished without any sin on their part while others enjoyed bliss of Paradise without any good deed in their credit? So in order to uphold the principle of justice and fairness, it was necessary for God to test all persons before sending them to Hell or Paradise.
Explaining the second principle:

 

The general Idea is that it would be illogical to expect the Quran to give you direct answers to the world because if it did, it would contradict the beliefs of those who lived in the 7th century. For example, the common belief at that time is that the Earth was flat. If the Quran had told them that the Earth was actually round, they would have ridiculed the Quran because according to their observations the Earth is clearly flat. If the Quran had told them that the Earth is flat, it would have supported their beliefs, but it would contradict our beliefs. So it is a requirement for the Quran to be vague enough in its natural descriptions so that it doesn’t contradict both 7th century belief and modern belief.

 

The Quran is meant for all times and places. The Quran supports 7th century belief and modern belief simultaneously without contradicting either belief. 

 

Analysis of the Quran’s timelessness:

 

It was stated earlier that the Quran doesn’t give direct answers to questions, rather, it allows the reader to interpret the indirect Quran in light of other Quranic verses and to reach a conclusion. The Quran did not directly tell you it was timeless. Its timeless nature should be the conclusion that follows from an interpretation of the Quran. 

 

According to the Quran, the Prophet Muhammad is the final prophet for humans.

 

[Quran 33:40] Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

 

 If the prophet Muhammad was the final prophet for humans, then no more prophets would be coming. 

 

Further the Quran reveals that prophets come down with scripture:

 

[Quran 2:213] Mankind was one community and Allah sent Prophets with glad tidings and warnings, and with them He sent the Scripture

 

 If the prophet Muhammad was the last prophet, then he is the last one who comes down with scripture. This means that no new scripture will come. It must follow then, that the Quran is timeless as it must be relevant to the people at the Prophet Muhammad’s time and it must be relevant to modern times. 

 

The Quran claims to be timeless, but, is the Quran timeless? The dynamics of the Quran and some examples will be discussed to reveal the Quranic timelessness. 

 

The mechanism of the Quran’s timeless nature: 

 

The Quran maintains its timeless nature by verse applicability. For example, there are verses that address only the prophet Muhammad, there are verses that address only men, there are verses that address only women, and there are verses that address people of the future. This allows the Quran to be relevant to everyone. There are certain laws that women follow that men don’t and vice-versa. 

 

This is an example of a verse that was not applicable to the prophet himself, but it is applicable to the people of the future:

 

[Quran 55:33] O assembly of the jinn and the men! If you are able to pass through the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass through..

 

The above verse is a direct commandment to us in modern times to travel through space. This verse was not applicable to the Prophet Muhammad himself, but it is applicable to us now. 

 

The Quran maintains this timeless and universal nature through giving out multiple verses with varying applicability so that it is relevant for all humans at all times and places. 

 

Timeless interpretations of the Quran:

 

It has been described earlier that the Quran must be vague for two reasons. One that has been discussed in detail earlier is that it must not provide complete certainty in the existence of God. The other reason is that the Quran must support 7th century belief and modern belief without contradicting either belief. This is a requirement because the Quran is timeless. But, does the Quran live up to that requirement?

 

The short answer is yes. The Quran’s vagueness gives it its ability to be timeless. Here is an example:

 

[Quran 21:33] And He it is who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating.

 

Imagine this verse has said that they are in an orbit floating around the earth. This would be a case in which the Quran supports 7th century belief but contradicts modern belief. Those words were conveniently not placed there so that the Quran maintains its timeless nature. 

 

Does this verse support 7th century belief that the Sun and the Moon travel around the Earth: Yes

 

Does this verse support modern belief that the Sun and the Moon are each traveling in an orbit: Yes

 

The Sun definitely travels in an orbit. You will find many examples like this throughout the Quran. Certain words were avoided so that the Quran maintains its timeless nature! The mechanism the Quran does this is through vagueness and word avoidance! 

 

Also notice how the Quran allows room for those who are unwilling to accept Islam to have their reasons to reject Islam. People may say that the author of the Quran did not know that the Earth has an orbit because the Quran didn’t explicitly state it. The response to that claim is that if the Quran has stated that the Earth has an orbit around the sun, it would contradict 7th century belief and they wouldn’t be compelled in accepting Islam. It’s a requirement for the Quran to maintain vagueness so that it becomes timeless. To some this is a strong piece of evidence that the Quran has a divine origin, to others this is just the Quran displaying its ignorance. This further alludes to the point previously made that the Quran must have sufficient evidence to compel those whose hearts are open but they must be sufficiently vague so that it doesn’t compel those whose hearts are closed. Those who are unwilling to accept Islam would say that the Quran was wrong on its account for the dynamics of the solar system. Those willing to accept Islam would search for greater answers and realize the Quran has avoided to clearly state the geocentric model so that it remains timeless. 

Amazing!!

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wowwww all them pictures u sent of animals nature etc it increases your iman it touches u 

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Verily! In the creation of the  universe and the earth,  and the moving (living) creatures of all kinds that He has scattered therein,  are indeed signs for people of understanding. 2:164

 

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Edited by muslim4life7
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Hi Andalusi

 

If you are not scared of new information yet are ignorant of it why do you not study?  Ignorance is most commonly just a lack of exposure to the information.

 

Take the bacterial data we have been discussing, you stated that the new abilities of these bacteria was just an ability god gave them which was turned on when required.  That’s a plausible scenario but it is contradicted by the evidence which gives us a great deal of detail on this question none of which supports that position. 

 

For your statement to be true the genetic code that allowed these bacteria to consume fructose would have to exist in the ancestral organisms that founded those colonies.  That is not true as we know what code that original organism contained and what code allows them to do this today, we have sequenced their genetics in detail as I said.  That code does not exist in their modern compatriots in the other colonies and it did not exist in their ancestors.  That’s simply a matter of looking it up, as I say we’ve sequenced their RNA.

 

All of the information you need to debase yourself of that faulty notion is out there.  I’m happy to head you in the right direction if you want to learn about this stuff.  Are you up for that challenge, to learn and to understand just a very little bit of genetics?

 

You’ve stated repeatedly that it is just not logical to you that complex structures can arise by evolutionary means (random chance plus selection) yet we’ve watched it happen in experiments in the lab and in the wild, we’ve even produced it in a number of experiments which I’ve explained here so there’s no great mystery and no serious room for doubt here.  You’re inability to understand it or to accept it says more about you than about the standard of evidence we have available to us.

 

It is a logical fallacy to claim that X can’t be true because you can’t personally understand or accept it.  You may not understand or accept it because you haven’t had sufficient education in it, because you have been brainwashed into a contrary position or because you are dumb.  There are lots of reasons why you may not accept a true claim, reasons which have no logical connection to the validity of that claim.  That’s what your rejection of the science here boils down to.  In logic that position is called the argument from personal incredulity fallacy.  It’s a common position among religious people, it’s invalid but it’s common.  You should try to avoid falling into the really obvious logical fallacies Andalusi, you’d go further in this world if you can manage that.

 

Russell

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Ok, explain to me how random events create Kinesin nanomolecular robot inside cells?

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Hi Andalusi

 

No you don’t skip to the end and say explain all this, what you do is you start at the beginning and look at simple things that evolve while we watch from random events and selection.  That way you’ve got a hope of understanding it, then you can work your way up to the big questions.  If you had never learned to add 2+2 you wouldn’t ask a maths teacher to explain the maths of Quantum theory to you, you’d start with your times table and simple addition, subtraction and division wouldn’t you?

 

So do you actually want to do that?  Do you want to start to learn how evolution works and how it can design these things using randomness and selection?  Yes even those robots that seem to so bamboozle you?

 

Russell

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Hi Andalusi

 

No you don’t skip to the end and say explain all this, what you do is you start at the beginning and look at simple things that evolve while we watch from random events and selection.  That way you’ve got a hope of understanding it, then you can work your way up to the big questions.  If you had never learned to add 2+2 you wouldn’t ask a maths teacher to explain the maths of Quantum theory to you, you’d start with your times table and simple addition, subtraction and division wouldn’t you?

 

So do you actually want to do that?  Do you want to start to learn how evolution works and how it can design these things using randomness and selection?  Yes even those robots that seem to so bamboozle you?

 

Russell

 

then explain it if you can explain

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Hi Andalusi

 

OK as I said we've got to get the basics working here first so here's an article on an artificial evolutionary experiment which tests Darwin's ideas outside the biological domain.  This makes it far easier to observe and to control so we get keener insights into it's power.  I've chosen a reporters edition rather than the original scientific paper for ease of reading but I can give you the original if you can grasp it form this and want more details.  The main thing you need to get from this is the fact that these evolved designs did not use human input, in fact humans can't understand them, yet they worked with far fewer elements than the best a human designer could come up with.  Random numbers plus a fitness test, analogous to mutation and selection, produced these circuits by themselves.  Please have a read and see if you can grasp what was happening here and come back to me with any questions you may have.

 

http://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/

 

Russell

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Hi Andalusi

 

OK as I said we've got to get the basics working here first so here's an article on an artificial evolutionary experiment which tests Darwin's ideas outside the biological domain.  This makes it far easier to observe and to control so we get keener insights into it's power.  I've chosen a reporters edition rather than the original scientific paper for ease of reading but I can give you the original if you can grasp it form this and want more details.  The main thing you need to get from this is the fact that these evolved designs did not use human input, in fact humans can't understand them, yet they worked with far fewer elements than the best a human designer could come up with.  Random numbers plus a fitness test, analogous to mutation and selection, produced these circuits by themselves.  Please have a read and see if you can grasp what was happening here and come back to me with any questions you may have.

 

http://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/

 

Russell

 

i dont understand that

 

i ask you again, explain in simple language how random events create Kinesin nanomolecular robot inside cells? 

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Hi Andalusi

 

So you are going to be the man who can't add 1 + 1 but want's to learn the maths of Quantum Physics right now is that it?  Sorry that's impossible, you have to learn to crawl before you can walk Andalusi. 

 

If you are interested in doing that please tell me what bits of that article you had trouble with and I'll explain them, it's the same idea as creating those robots but on a much simpler level and over a much shorter timescale.  If you really want to understand this stuff you are going to have to start at the beginning and I'm happy to help you with that but you have to be willing to put in a little bit of effort here to actually understand what evolutionary theory says.

 

Russell

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Hi Andalusi

 

So you are going to be the man who can't add 1 + 1 but want's to learn the maths of Quantum Physics right now is that it? Sorry that's impossible, you have to learn to crawl before you can walk Andalusi.

 

If you are interested in doing that please tell me what bits of that article you had trouble with and I'll explain them, it's the same idea as creating those robots but on a much simpler level and over a much shorter timescale. If you really want to understand this stuff you are going to have to start at the beginning and I'm happy to help you with that but you have to be willing to put in a little bit of effort here to actually understand what evolutionary theory says.

 

Russell

If you want to help me you need to answer the question :)

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Hi Andalusi

 

I'm trying to but, as I explained, you need to learn the basics before you can delve into the most complex questions.  As I said I'm happy to go there but if you can't understand such a simple example as the one I posted above you have a long way to go before you'll ever grasp the complexity and subtly of the answer to the question you are asking so, yet again, I say that you need to start at a much lower level and I'm happy to go through that journey with you.  You'll find many of the questions you ask answered with far simpler and more accessible examples than the one you are stuck on here but we'll get to that one down the track.  So what is it about the example I posted above that you are struggling to understand?

 

Russell

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Hi Andalusi

 

I'm trying to but, as I explained, you need to learn the basics before you can delve into the most complex questions.  As I said I'm happy to go there but if you can't understand such a simple example as the one I posted above you have a long way to go before you'll ever grasp the complexity and subtly of the answer to the question you are asking so, yet again, I say that you need to start at a much lower level and I'm happy to go through that journey with you.  You'll find many of the questions you ask answered with far simpler and more accessible examples than the one you are stuck on here but we'll get to that one down the track.  So what is it about the example I posted above that you are struggling to understand?

 

Russell

 

i am asking you for the last time , answer the question, if you cant answer it we can end this discussion

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Spotlight loosejaw fish
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The Stoplight Loosejaw is named for the two specialized light-producing organs that are located below each eye.   One is green and one is red.  Producing light in these two colors increases the ability of the Stoplight Loosejaw to see and attack its prey.  There is very little light at the Stoplight Loosejaw’s preferred depth – 1700 to 13,000 feet (500-4000 m) below the sea surface.  This species likely utilizes its light organs to visually locate prey.  The red organ, in particular, is valuable because most species at those depths cannot see red light.  A red crustacean, for example, would be easy to see in red light, even if the crustacean cannot sense the light itself.  Adult Stoplight Loosejaws are less than one foot (30 cm) long and eat small fishes and crustaceans.  The Stoplight Loosejaw uses its long, needle-like teeth and unique jaws to ensure that no passing meal is too big to miss.  Unlike some closely related fishes that migrate toward the surface each night, scientists believe that the Stoplight Loosejaw stays in the deep.

Like most species in the deep sea, the Stoplight Loosejaw is very difficult to study and is only known from specimens that are brought up from deep nets.  Stoplight Loosejaws are not eaten by people, and there is no evidence to suggest that people have any negative affects on their populations.  However, the deep sea is known to be a changing environment, so it is important for scientists to continue monitoring this large marine habitat.

 

amazing creature

Edited by andalusi

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Hi Andalusi

 

No what you are doing is demanding that I explain Quantum Physics to a kindergartener.  As I’ve said that’s impossible.  It’s not that the answers don’t exist it’s that no kindergartener can grasp the concepts necessary.   You have to be willing to put in the effort to actually understand evolutionary theory.  I’ve given you a much simpler case to examine and you’ve said you can’t grasp it so you have no hope of understanding the far more complex example you are stuck on here.  When you are willing to put in a little bit of effort to lift yourself up high enough here to actually grasp what the theory says then we can move this forwards.  If you are unwilling or incapable of doing so then you are right, this is not going to go anywhere.

 

Russell

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What will happen next? Place your bets now!

 

A: 'Evidence for a God' will continue to flow into this thread regardless of the proponents reluctance to learn and understand.

B: A handful of believers will read this and decide to embark on a journey of self exploration & study of the natural world without bias.

C: My best friend, Eclipse, will arrive to comment on my comment and save the day for everyone.

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Ha ha Donald , no , I will not enter in discussion with Andalusi , who after all, is a fellow , free thinking, human being, and is entitled to his own opinion , regardless of how he reaches his conclusions .

 I would again recommend for you an Evelyn Woods Reading and Reading Comprehension Course [ it really is important ] as my position was made quite clear on the Beauty and Order thread Apr.4 comment to Russell, and numerous times previously. [try re-reading it a few more times ].

Have fun mate.

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Hi Andalusi

 

No what you are doing is demanding that I explain Quantum Physics to a kindergartener.  As I’ve said that’s impossible.  It’s not that the answers don’t exist it’s that no kindergartener can grasp the concepts necessary.   You have to be willing to put in the effort to actually understand evolutionary theory.  I’ve given you a much simpler case to examine and you’ve said you can’t grasp it so you have no hope of understanding the far more complex example you are stuck on here.  When you are willing to put in a little bit of effort to lift yourself up high enough here to actually grasp what the theory says then we can move this forwards.  If you are unwilling or incapable of doing so then you are right, this is not going to go anywhere.

 

Russell

 

i cant understand how random events create complex structure wich interfere wit each other, if someone can explain it how that happens , great if you cant , we move on, i believe like think is most logical, and that is that God created orginally everything.

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Ha ha Donald , no , I will not enter in discussion with Andalusi , who after all, is a fellow , free thinking, human being, and is entitled to his own opinion , regardless of how he reaches his conclusions .

 I would again recommend for you an Evelyn Woods Reading and Reading Comprehension Course [ it really is important ] as my position was made quite clear on the Beauty and Order thread Apr.4 comment to Russell, and numerous times previously. [try re-reading it a few more times ].

Have fun mate.

 

Thanks Eclipse. You are good :D

 

With regards to reading comprehension; If you want to read my last comment again, correctly, you'll notice that I haven't mentioned Andalusi...

Which reminds me. As soon as you are emotionally prepared to concede that water can be referred to as 'dihydrogen monoxide', let us all know.

The ability to public admit when you have been wrong is a valuable trait that should be encouraged throughout this site and elsewhere...

I'd hate to think that you were never given the opportunity to improve yourself. Especially over something as trivial as the name of a molecule.

 

Thanks for everything, sugar. All the best.

 

 

i cant understand how random events create complex structure wich interfere wit each other, if someone can explain it how that happens , great if you cant , we move on, i believe like think is most logical, and that is that God created orginally everything.

 

 

The god of Islam is the creator of everything because I am unable to comprehend the complexity of an idea that posits an alternative.

                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        - Andalusi

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Thanks Eclipse. You are good :D

 

With regards to reading comprehension; If you want to read my last comment again, correctly, you'll notice that I haven't mentioned Andalusi...

Which reminds me. As soon as you are emotionally prepared to concede that water can be referred to as 'dihydrogen monoxide', let us all know.

The ability to public admit when you have been wrong is a valuable trait that should be encouraged throughout this site and elsewhere...

I'd hate to think that you were never given the opportunity to improve yourself. Especially over something as trivial as the name of a molecule.

 

Thanks for everything, sugar. All the best.

 

 

 

 

 

The god of Islam is the creator of everything because I am unable to comprehend the complexity of an idea that posits an alternative.

                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        - Andalusi

Then you can maybe answer the question if russel cant, how can random event creature complex structures like nanorobots in cells?

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