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Ron Shirt

Education In Islam

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With particular regard to the Taliban's view of Islam in Afghanistan, is there any reason why girls should not be allowed to go to school?

 

 

Regards,

 

ron

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Narrated Anas ibn Malik Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: The seeking of knowledge is obligatory for every Muslim [Al Timirdhi Hadith #74]

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on the Issue, the Islamic council organization, منظمة المؤتمر الاسلامى sent a respected delegation to be sure of the "GLOBAL MEDIA DISGRACING REPORTS", the only availabe source of information in most of the cases,

 

the former Mofti of EGYPT, DR Nasr Farid Wassel, was one of the visitors, he explained many misunderstood issues about Taliban. one of them was the girls' education:

 

he said " they didn't forbid girls education, on the contrary, they support it just like the boys. the case is; after 17 successive years of war (1979-1996) they don't have enough facilities, schools or teachers for both sexes, and not even for the boys. so they didicated the left schools for boys (since mixing beween sexes is not allowed) the rest of boys and the whole girls will be educated in a volenteers private houses by volonteers teachres under the supervission and support of the local authorites.

 

they promissed too, they gave a priority to fix and build a new facilities for all as fast as they can.

 

i feel like, that seems a resonable answer for moslems. he said too, he was misled just like most of the Moslems by the MEDIA, Taliban spread saftey and faught drugs (that what the MEDIA re-corected it's old reports about later, when 100,000s of western forces supported with all kinds of technology couldn't stop later)

Edited by AHMAD_73

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Hello, Ron :sl:

 

The truth is, what Taliban claimed as "Islam" is NOT entirely "islamic". From what I see, their ulama is very corrupted that they mixed the extreme sexism/patriarchist and make it sound legal by squandering the name Islam. Let me give you example - a bit off topic, but to explain. In Taliban (including Somalia), when woman is raped, the woman will get the punishment. Prophet Muhammad himself NEVER teach such inhumane thing. There's a hadith narrated by Turmidzi and Abu Daud telling a woman one day was raped, the prophet punishes the rapists and let go free the woman victim.

 

It's just one example how what Taliban did actually very contrary to Islam. Now, how about education?

 

In hadith the Prophet Muhammad said "seeking knowledge is obligatory for every muslims" (narrated by Ibn Majah) and

"whosoever walks a path to seek knowledge, Allah will ease their way to paradise" (narrated by Muslim)

 

These hadiths showed that every muslims, regardless its genders, are obliged to seek a knowledge. One hadith even told an event where Madinnah women came to Prophet and requested him to teach them in a sort-of class, about Islam. The prophet agreed to their requests and gave them the teaching schedule for them to attend to. this was like a small school where Madinnah women gathered to received teaching by Prophet. And historically, a lot of hadiths sources are women. Just because they are women, it doesnt make the hadith resourced from them became invalid.

 

These are facts that Islam never rejects woman for education, knowledge seeking, or becoming part of it.

 

I hope this answers your question :sl:

 

 

~ Arachnide

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Here is an article of what happened in the Swat valley of Pakistan when the Taliban took control in January 2009.

 

(you are not allowed to post links yet)"you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwashingtontimes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/news/2009/jan/05/taliban-bans-education-for-girls-in-pakistans-swat/?page=all"]you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwashingtontimes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/news/2009/j...-swat/?page=all[/url]

 

Definitely what was reported was not Islamic.

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Hello, Ron :sl:

 

The truth is, what Taliban claimed as "Islam" is NOT entirely "islamic". From what I see, their ulama is very corrupted that they mixed the extreme sexism/patriarchist and make it sound legal by squandering the name Islam. Let me give you example - a bit off topic, but to explain. In Taliban (including Somalia), when woman is raped, the woman will get the punishment. Prophet Muhammad himself NEVER teach such inhumane thing. There's a hadith narrated by Turmidzi and Abu Daud telling a woman one day was raped, the prophet punishes the rapists and let go free the woman victim. It's just one example how what Taliban did actually very contrary to Islam. Now,

alsalamo alykm, sister

it's not only againist the hadeeth, it's againist the main and general Islamic concepts "no soul carries the burden of another". it's againist the every logic and sane thinking of any sane man.

 

i like to know your sources of information? i was a good follower of the Arabic Media at the time, i never come across such information.

 

another main general principle in Islam i'm afraid we may brake, " we have not to judge a case unless we hear from both sides" what did you hear as a deffence from the "Taliban" themselves, not the west MEDIA on their sake??

 

did you believe the MEDIA compain on IRAQ (1991-2003), or they themselves declare that they were totally biased againist IRAQ?

 

how about education?

 

In hadith the Prophet Muhammad said "seeking knowledge is obligatory for every muslims" (narrated by Ibn Majah) and

"whosoever walks a path to seek knowledge, Allah will ease their way to paradise" (narrated by Muslim)

 

These hadiths showed that every muslims, regardless its genders, are obliged to seek a knowledge. One hadith even told an event where Madinnah women came to Prophet and requested him to teach them in a sort-of class, about Islam. The prophet agreed to their requests and gave them the teaching schedule for them to attend to. this was like a small school where Madinnah women gathered to received teaching by Prophet. And historically, a lot of hadiths sources are women. Just because they are women, it doesnt make the hadith resourced from them became invalid.

 

These are facts that Islam never rejects woman for education, knowledge seeking, or becoming part of it.

 

I hope this answers your question :sl:

~ Arachnide

i just narrated what i heard by my ears from one of the most trusted Moslem religious moderate personalities, as a formal member of the highist world Islamic Authorities, about the Issue.

 

the west just began negotiations with what they used to describe as satans,

 

how to explain the steady growing people support to them, that make them resist (if not beat) a the most arrogant and strong forces (not one force) in the whole world, along with many of the Afghani US supporters, without any external support??

 

i don't tell you believe that or this, but just give yourself, the chance to hear both sides.

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What is funny is that if someone or a group does something another Muslim does not like, they call it un-Islamic.

The Taliban call Sheikh Muhammad of Dubai un-Islamic and vice-versa.

 

So how is it possible that a woman in Cairo can study anything she wants and get her Ph.D. and in Kabul a girl can't even attend Primary School? A woman I worked with in Kabul told me how she had to fight her family to get an education and to be able to lead her own life without sitting in the kitchen looking after a husband. Her story reflects reality and not the idealised version I see being propagated so often. Sure, there is a sentence somewhere in Islamic texts where all Muslims should learn and reflect on reality. But at the same time the Koran is so vague and ambiguous that it requires interpretation and guidance when it comes to reading sentences saying the opposite. And the Hadiths can be used to prove almost anything.

 

So one group takes the sentences on equality and the others point to the ones saying women are worth half of a man. Then both find some Hadiths substantiating their view and that is what is used. So both groups are right.

 

On top of that we have regional cultures and traditions which can also lead to a girl being denied any education. What Islam would need is a Martin Luther to harmonise the Koran and take Islam into the 21st century with a clear and concise book and get the cobwebs of the 7th century out of the system.

 

But then again: are Muslims here in favour of women having the same or higher education than men?

Would Muslims here accept that?

 

We live in an Islamic country and my wife's hairdresser also owns a tea/coffee-shop. She can't issue commands to the men working for her. They don't accept that, so she has to hire either Nepalese workers or a male manager who accepts her as a boss. That's reality for you.

 

Then you have the contents of education. If a Muslim student thinks that what is in the Koran and was interpreted by a French doctor 40 years ago is real, then there's a problem.

And, of course you can't study geology if you have to believe that mountains stabilise the Earth's crust. You can't study biology if you have to believe that a human is created from an extract of clay. Or oceanography believing there are barriers between the seas. And so on. So if a student can successfully see the Koran as a spiritual guidance book and treat it as allegorical there is no reason why that student can't successfully study and finish any line of education. But in reality we have Muslims studying Biology in the UK and then they walk out when it comes to embryology as reality is different from what they know from their holy book, if taken literally.

 

So they need to take a choice. It's never simple, is it?

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Stops, you continue making a fool of yourself. Completly clueless, go back to taking your info from your bigotted dutch/german websites. When you embarassed yourself on Hamza's fb, and on IA, I don't think anyone takes you seriously.

 

To the OP: In Islamic history, especially early Islam, there were over 2000 female scholars. Read the book called "al-muhaddithat". Without female scholars, 60-70% of Islam today would be missing.

 

Also in Early Islam, the literacy rates were amongst the highest recorded in history.

 

All men and women need to get an education.

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Also, in regards to Taliban, some corrections -

 

Emboldened Taliban Try to Sell Softer Image

 

Girls' schools, once prohibited by the Taliban, are now encouraged. Above, young girls wait with their mothers outside a school in Kandahar.

 

KABUL—When the Taliban ruled Afghanistan in the 1990s, Maulvi Qalamuddin headed the Committee to Protect Virtue and Prevent Vice, the religious police that shut down girls' schools, beat up men with insufficiently long beards and arrested those in possession of music or video tapes.

 

Nowadays, the 60-year-old Taliban cleric is on a different mission: He is overseeing a network of schools that teach reading, writing and math to thousands of girls in his home province of Logar, an insurgent hotbed just south of Kabul.

 

"Education for women is just as necessary as education for men," Mr. Qalamuddin thunders. "In Islam, men and women have the same duty to pray, to fast—and to seek learning."

The Taliban's restrictions on women and schooling, combined with support for al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden, turned the group into an international pariah even before the September 2001 attacks on America. Now, as the U.S. pulls out its troops and tries to negotiate a peace settlement with the insurgents, the international community grapples with a crucial question: If returned to power, will the Taliban behave any more responsibly this time around?

 

In recent public statements, the Taliban have made an effort to appear a more moderate force, promising peaceful relations with neighboring countries and respect for human rights. The big unknown is whether this new rhetoric represents a meaningful transformation—or is merely designed to sugarcoat the Taliban's real aims.

 

"One might believe that they would change over time," says U.S. Army Lt. Gen. Curtis Scaparrotti, the day-to-day commander of the U.S.-led coalition forces in Afghanistan. "You see some messages that they might open their thinking a bit about women, a woman's place in society. But I don't know that I would bet on it."

 

U.S. and Taliban representatives have met over the past several months, trying to establish a dialogue that could end America's longest foreign war. In a tangible sign of progress in early January, the Taliban dropped their insistence that all foreign troops must leave Afghanistan before any peace talks begin and agreed to set up a representative office in Qatar to facilitate future negotiations. To create trust in these talks, the U.S. is considering transferring to Qatari custody five senior Taliban officials incarcerated at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

 

Despite a new willingness to negotiate with the U.S., however, the Taliban's leadership still believes it can reach its war aim of seizing Kabul and the rest of Afghanistan after most foreign forces withdraw in 2014, American military commanders agree.

 

Such a future Taliban government would be gentler and wiser than its 1990s incarnation, insurgent officials insist. "As a movement gets older, it becomes more mature, and makes positive changes," Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid says. "During the past Taliban regime the government would make some hasty decisions, but now we are careful and deliberate."

 

A key difference would be an effort to include all of Afghanistan's tribes and ethnic communities, he adds. The old Taliban regime was dominated by Pashtun clerics from southern Kandahar province, and discriminated against the Shiite Hazara community and other minorities. This time around, "every group of the nation will be equally represented and privileged," Mr. Mujahid says.

 

The Taliban remain a mostly Pashtun movement, and deeply resents what it sees as disproportionate power enjoyed by smaller ethnic communities under President Hamid Karzai. But, in the post-2001 insurgency, the Afghan Taliban have largely shied away from the sectarian and ethnic violence that accompanied their rise to power in the 1990s, calling instead on all Afghans to unite against the foreign invaders.

 

In December, the Taliban leadership swiftly condemned the deadly bombing of Shiite shrines in Kabul and Mazar-e-Sharif, attacks that Afghan officials have blamed on Pakistanis.

 

The Taliban now have some Uzbek and Tajik commanders, and the insurgency has spread even to the non-Pashtun regions that were outside Taliban control in 2001.

 

A future Taliban administration also would seek to establish "good coordination" with the international community in the fight against narcotics, Mr. Mujahid says. Since 2001, opium has become an increasingly important source of income for the Taliban insurgency, and for several power brokers and former warlords in Mr. Karzai's administration, according to Western government officials. The Taliban, diplomats say, are highly unlikely to get out of the drug business as long as the war goes on.

 

Young girls attend school in a Pashtun area with a heavy Taliban presence in Afghanistan's Badghis province. Many pro-Taliban villagers who were Initially reluctant to send their kids now say education is helping them.

 

Still, the only time in recent history when opium cultivation was nearly eradicated in Afghanistan was in 2001—when Taliban leader Mullah Omar imposed a ban on poppies, in an attempt to gain international recognition that collapsed after the Sept. 11 attacks.

 

Severing remaining Taliban links with al Qaeda remains a key demand of the U.S. and allies, and a concession that Western officials expect insurgents to make after the Taliban detainees are transferred to Qatar.

 

On the ground in Afghanistan, however, the few surviving al Qaeda fighters already have become irrelevant in the current insurgency, especially since bin Laden's killing last May, coalition officials say.

 

"The Taliban have a local agenda, and do not operate abroad. Al Qaeda is international, and that's the biggest difference," explains the pre-2001 Taliban government's foreign minister, Wakil Abdul Muttawakil. In any case, he notes, it's not the Taliban but the mujahedeen groups currently in Mr. Karzai's administration who invited bin Laden to Afghanistan in 1996, months before the Taliban captured Kabul. "They thought he'd asphalt all the roads in Afghanistan because he's a millionaire," Mr. Muttawakil chuckles. "Instead, he just brought war to Afghanistan."

 

The Taliban's traditional foes, especially among the former Northern Alliance of ethnic Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara militias, dismiss any talk of the Taliban's new moderation as insidious propaganda designed to weaken the West's resolve in the war.

 

They point out that today's Taliban fighters are, if anything, more radical than the older generation. For example, the suicide bombers, virtually unheard of in Afghanistan in the 1990s, are frequently deployed these days to assassinate Afghan government officials and attack U.S. troops. The Taliban's purported desire to reduce civilian casualties, too, hasn't translated into more careful behavior on the ground. Civilian casualties caused by insurgents were up 28% in the first half of last year, according to United Nations statistics.

 

"Wishful thinking has not taken anyone anywhere," warns former Northern Alliance leader Abdullah Abdullah, who served as President Karzai's foreign minister and then became his main rival in the 2009 presidential elections. "The Taliban's views are the same."

 

Yet, on at least one crucial issue—education, for girls and boys—Mr. Karzai's government and Western officials concede that significant change has already occurred. "I don't find them to be as hard as they used to be in the 1990s," Afghanistan's Education Minister Farooq Wardak says in an interview.

 

In the early years of the insurgency, the Taliban would routinely blow up schools across the country, especially those teaching girls, assassinating government-paid teachers. As a result, in many southern and eastern districts of the country's Pashtun heartland, an entire generation of children grew up not knowing how to read, write or count.

 

Over the years, this caused a backlash: Young men from the Pashtun villages have increasingly found themselves unable to compete for jobs with better-educated ethnic minorities, such as the Hazaras.

 

"Our communities have told the Taliban: 'Hey, guys, you're telling us you're trying to topple the government of Hamid Karzai and establish your own government. But when you have your own government, you'll still need doctors and engineers. So why are you not letting my kids go to school?' " Mr. Wardak says.

 

Female teachers at a girl's school in Kandahar.

 

The Taliban have heeded this message, according to the Afghan minister. Some 600 schools that had been shut down because of security concerns were reopened over the past three years, he says.

 

Education directors in more than a hundred of Afghanistan's 398 districts have reported to Kabul that they received assurances from local Taliban commanders that their schools would be protected. The Taliban, Mr. Wardak adds, frequently tell government-paid teachers: "You have to do your job. If your absenteeism is too much, we're going to fire you."

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Not all the Taliban commanders are on board with this policy. Last year, there were 440 attacks and threats against schools, down from 500 in 2010, according to the U.N. These numbers include attacks on schools used by Afghan or coalitions forces, seen as legitimate targets by the Taliban. In addition, some of the attacks came from criminal gangs and non-Taliban militias.

 

Peter Crowley, the Afghanistan representative of the United Nations Children's Fund that's building up the country's education infrastructure, says he's encouraged by a "positive trend" in Taliban attitudes to education, including girls' schools.

 

"No military pressure is going to force them to accept education," he says. "This is a conclusion they are reaching on their own."

 

In the Taliban-controlled villages of Logar province, the classes organized by Mr. Qalamuddin, the former Taliban religious police chief, are held inside Masjids. They don't use government textbooks to avoid any taint of being associated with Mr. Karzai's administration.

 

Considered a moderate by Afghan standards, Mr. Qalamuddin is no longer involved in the armed struggle and, after spending two years in prison, lives openly in Kabul. Last year, the United Nations removed his name from the list of Taliban officials barred from international travel.

 

His moderation is relative. The bearded cleric still praises Mullah Omar, who oversaw the regime's atrocities in the 1990s and refused to extradite bin Laden in 2001, as a "very honest and good man."

 

He also proudly stands by the comments endorsing the stoning of adulteresses that he made in a 1997 interview with an American newspaper.

 

But, greeting visitors in a room featuring a TV set, Mr. Qalamuddin readily concedes that the Taliban government to which he belonged until 2001 may have erred by focusing on "superficial" issues such as the length of men's beards and unnecessarily banned modern amenities like television.

 

The elementary schools, in the cleric's home district of Baraki Barak that is now under near-total Taliban control, are funded by a small German aid group named Ofarin that has worked on education in Afghanistan since before 2001. The group pays each of the 67 teachers in the area 2,400 afghanis ($53) a month, according to its coordinator and co-founder, Peter Schwittek.

 

Six times a week, thousands of local boys and girls—sometimes together, more often separately—gather in scores of village Masjids across the district at the break of dawn, sitting through 90 minutes of math and Afghanistan's national languages of Pashtu and Dari. An additional 30 minutes a day are taken by Islamic studies, taught by the local mullahs following a textbook written by Mr. Qalamuddin and approved by the Afghan authorities.

 

In the hamlet of Hajji Musa Kala, villager Mohammad Idris is sending to one of these Masjid schools his eight-year-old son and his six-year-old daughter. "If there were some girls' schools nearby, I would have sent my daughter there, but we don't have any," he says. "This is a favor for the people."

 

In recent years, as the Taliban took over Baraki Barak, Mr. Schwittek hasn't been able to visit the area. Even Mr. Qalamuddin himself hasn't been around for months, fearing more radical insurgent commanders opposed to his involvement in efforts to spur peace negotiations between the Taliban and Mr. Karzai's government.

 

But the teachers and parents in the district say they have been left undisturbed by the militants, who sometimes monitor the classes but don't otherwise interfere.

 

"It's nonsense that the Taliban are against women's education," the local insurgent commander, Maulvi Darwish, says in a phone interview. The red line, he explains, would be adding the language of infidel invaders to the local curriculum. "Learning English isn't a sin, but teaching a foreign language in the Masjid would provoke people's sentiments," the Taliban commander says.

 

Matiullah Asim, a teacher in the district's Hajji Jan Nisar village, says new classes are likely to be established in neighboring villages in the spring.

 

"The people here are all Taliban sympathizers, or at least pretend to be pro-Taliban," he explains. Initially, many villagers were concerned that blackboards don't really belong in a Masjid, and kept their girls and boys away. "Now, they've seen that this is something that helps their children. Everyone is sending their kids to get education."

—Habib Khan Totakhil contributed to this article.

 

In truth, Taliban were actually never against girls education, they were simply against free mixing between men and women.

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Here is an article of what happened in the Swat valley of Pakistan when the Taliban took control in January 2009.

 

you can't post links until you reach 50 posts_you are not allowed to post links yetwashingtontimes(contact admin if its a beneficial link)/news/2009/j...-swat/?page=all

 

Definitely what was reported was not Islamic.

 

Just wanted to correct you, the Afghan Taliban is not the same as the Pakistani Taliban.

 

There different, and at first Mullah Omar (Afghan Taliban Leader) was quite fustrated that the Pakistani Taliban were being affiliated with him, even though both groups had enmity between them.

 

At the moment, in this time, upon recent news, I hear they're trying to improve their relations with each other.

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