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ParadiseLost

Us Soldier Kills Innocent Civilians In Afghan

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I agree, saddam and the taliban should have left to deal with there respected countrys.

 

I will never advocate sending nato troops to remove dictators and tyrants.

 

Your right no muslims asked for help, so i say leave them to there paradise on earth.

 

I would also reject any plea's for help from muslims in the future.

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i doubt calling what the NATO/US wars in the Islamic world as help or spreading the democratic values, but mere benifits. when Sadam was killing his people in Halabagah and Solimaniah in the begins of the 80s (as the western media propagate years later) the US and Eourobe were the main supporter of him. they didn't mention a word tell about his crimes tell the 90s for other reasons of course. they didn't care about the people or democracy but OIL.

 

in Laten America, the US supported many of the militery revolutions, againest every democratic value, more over the US held that school to creat such tyrants and to train them how to control their people (Noriaga and others).in 1992 when the democracy chose some people to control Algeria, by the full aid of the west and specially France, the west worked againest Democracy and led the country to a long war.

 

Mubarak in Egypt, Ali Saleh in Yamen,....... most of the meak (to west) Tyrants were unlimitedly supported by the US in every agressive action againest their people.

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First of all, you may need to move to bigger house, having a new car, better to be Ferrari. You may need too to have a nice silver crown.

 

Second, who want to help the world, he have to Stop dealing with double standards, stop hypocrisy, and stop arrogance.

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All wars induce madness; wars ARE madness! This terrible war hasn't accomplished much of anything, and, in my opinion, can't.

American's can sign a petition to President Obama to end it NOW at Credo Action.com.

Please don't judge all Americans by the bad ones. Just as Muslims should not be judged by the horrible ones like Osama bin Laden.

We all need to cherish and follow people of genuine good will

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I will never advocate sending nato troops to remove dictators and tyrants.

 

 

I would also reject any plea's for help from muslims in the future.

 

What happend to your moral and ethical code? has it become corrupt :blink:

Edited by ala'adin

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how happy were the civilians in Iraq when saddam was toppled, very as I recall.

 

then sectarian violence kicked off and all blame was put on the west.

 

Same will happen elsewhere, so i pick the lesser of 2 evils. At least then muslims wont have any excuse to scream death to america/uk etc.

 

this quote sums up exactly why i wouldnt

 

Scotia the views in the Western World are NOT held by the Islamic World. You think you are doing the Muslims a favour by getting rid of Saddam and the Taliban? Can I ask you how many Muslims asked for any help? Your nations are there for their own interests and no one else's. If you think otherwise then clearly that's being unrealistic.

 

How would you like it if an Islamic Army invaded your country, committed mass crimes and then we expect YOU to thank us and be grateful to us? You'd probably turn red with anger just thinking about it and you expect us to be grateful that the 'West' have ruined the lives of millions of people - Muslim AND non-Muslim?

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A lot of muslims have played the "mental breakdown card", ppl on this forum have defended terrorist attacks by claiming it was probably some1 with mental issues and not a real muslim...

 

 

 

 

or the ever popular 'false flag' operation

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This might be a lie actually. According to the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan it was a planned military raid where more than 50 civillians were killed. Now they are just covering up by blaming a single rogue soldier who has mental issues. Don't believe their lies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Up to 20 US troops behind Kandahar bloodbath - Afghan probe

 

 

 

An Afghan parliamentary investigation team has implicated up to 20 US troops in the massacre of 16 civilians in Kandahar early on Sunday morning. It contradicts NATO's account that insists one rogue soldier was behind the slaughter.

 

The team of Afghan lawmakers has spent two days collating reports from witnesses, survivors and inhabitants of the villages where the tragedy took place.

 

“We are convinced that one soldier cannot kill so many people in two villages within one hour at the same time, and the 16 civilians, most of them children and women, have been killed by the two groups,” investigator Hamizai Lali told Afghan News.

 

Lali also said their investigations led them to believe 15 to 20 US soldiers had been involved in the killings. He appealed to the international community to ensure that the responsible parties were brought to justice, stressing the Afghan parliament would not rest until the killers were prosecuted.

 

"If the international community does not play its role in punishing the perpetrators, the Wolesi Jirga [parliament] would declare foreign troops as occupying forces,” he said.

 

The head of the Afghan parliamentary investigation, Sayed Ishaq Gillani, told the BBC that witnesses report seeing helicopters dropping chaff during the attack, a measure used to hide targets from ground attack.

 

Gillani added that locals suspect the massacre was revenge for attacks carried out last week on US forces that left several injured.

 

In response to the massacre

Afghan PM Hamid Karzai called for US troops to quit Afghan villages and confine themselves to their military bases across the country. Furthermore, the Taliban announced that talks with US forces would be suspended.

 

Meanwhile the US military has detained one soldier in connection with the massacre and transferred him to Kuwait amid outcry for a public trial in Afghanistan. Currently, the soldier is being flown to Kansas base, AFP reported.

 

US authorities are currently conducting an investigation into the motives behind the attack, but maintain that the soldier’s trial must be dealt with by the US legal system.

 

It is believed that the soldier

may have had alcohol problems and been suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

 

 

 

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I think if there were 20 troops running around killing Afghan, there would have been a lot more dead Afghans. That guy in Norway, I think, killed about 60 people at one time. And he didn't even have an automatic weapon. It can be done.

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I think if there were 20 troops running around killing Afghan,

let them one patrol 4-6 troops, is that seems to be good!!

 

there would have been a lot more dead Afghans. That guy in Norway, I think, killed about 60 people at one time. And he didn't even have an automatic weapon. It can be done.

 

it totally depends on the purpose of the killer(s)? the distance from the base? the time available? the denisty of the people and the houses distribution? the people reaction to the first shoots? why he/they moved to another village to do the same crimes???

 

he/they killed 16 and wound almost the same number in too small villages.

 

here is the important questions:

will the US allow a fair Afgani-American invistigators group to invistigate the crime to reach the truth?

will the states hand in the killer to the Afgani justice? BTW the US held that loooong war agaist Afganistan because of a similar situation!!!!!

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A US soldier who allegedly shot dead 16 civilians in Afghanistan is being held in a US military jail in Kansas as his name and new details about the veteran's past emerged.

The soldier, identified yesterday as US Army Staff Sergeant Robert Bales, had served three combat tours in Iraq, and was on his first deployment to Afghanistan.

 

Full story: http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0317/afghanistan.html

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Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales remembers little about the night he is accused of slaughtering 16 Afghan civilians in a nighttime shooting rampage, his lawyer says.

He has a sketchy memory of events from before and after the killings but recalls very little or nothing of the time the military believes he went on a shooting spree through two Afghan villages, attorney John Henry Browne said Monday after meeting his client for the first time.

source: associated press

 

 

Looks like he will be put into a mental institution then.

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A question: generally do Muslims believe in the concept of mental illness?

Or more specifically in the works of Freud and Jung?

 

regards,

 

ron

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A question: generally do Muslims believe in the concept of mental illness?

Or more specifically in the works of Freud and Jung?

 

regards,

 

ron

 

it totally depends on the concept of justice, methods, mechanisms and individuals who will reach this. i mean if the US showed some respect to the Afghani people and allowed a mixed investigation team to reach such result, that may be ok. even that will take us to another kind of investigations "who gives an automatic gun to a mental illnessed person is more mental illnessed than him" !!!!

 

while if it just goes like the "Abu-ghoreeb prison" "Al-hadeethah masscare, the 12 years old girl Abeer and her family" " the usage of forbidden weapons in invading civilian cities for example Al-Fallowgah", "the usage of pre-paid killer private firms in dirty works"............. that may be just suspesious

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it totally depends on the concept of justice, methods, mechanisms and individuals who will reach this. i mean if the US showed some respect to the Afghani people and allowed a mixed investigation team to reach such result, that may be ok. even that will take us to another kind of investigations "who gives an automatic gun to a mental illnessed person is more mental illnessed than him" !!!!

 

while if it just goes like the "Abu-ghoreeb prison" "Al-hadeethah masscare, the 12 years old girl Abeer and her family" " the usage of forbidden weapons in invading civilian cities for example Al-Fallowgah", "the usage of pre-paid killer private firms in dirty works"............. that may be just suspesious

 

Sorry but I'm not 100% clear about your answer. I'm speaking of medical opinions.

 

regards,

 

ron

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Sorry but I'm not 100% clear about your answer. I'm speaking of medical opinions.

 

regards,

 

ron

 

two main points,

do you think it would be better for a medical Afghani staff to share in this medical issue.....

 

even if that was right and this sergent have some mental problems, don't you see that the one who gave a machine gun to such a person did a mistake?

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Brother Ahmad I think Ron is just asking in general how mental illnesses are viewed in Islam

 

And yes Islam does deal with this issue - however mental illness is a vast category in contemporary times including things like addictions - and I am not sure if Islam would actually view addictions as a mental illness (others can correct me if I am wrong) but rather about weakness of controlling oneself and lack of self discipline etc And then I think Islam would view more serious cases such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder in relation to jinn.

I also read a hadith that the a person who is mentally ill is among the people who will not be held accountable for his/her actions, although I cannot locate it I will keep looking (or perhaps someone else knows it?)

 

Allah also told us that for every disease there is a cure.

 

But in short yes Islam does recognise that mental illnesses do exist.

I would like to do more research on this area actually because I find it interesting..I might start a new thread about it then.

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here is the hadeeth

 

in al-nas'aee (3445) and Ahmad (25431) narrated by Ayshaa (ra), that the prophet (pbuh) said "the pen is raised for three persons (stop recording accountable actions) the sleeper tell he wake up, the boy tell be mature (young man 13-14-15) and the mental illnessed tell he regains his mind"

 

3432 - أَخْبَرَنَا يَعْقُوبُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ مَهْدِيٍّ قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ عَنْ حَمَّادٍ عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ الْأَسْوَدِ عَنْ عَائِشَةَ عَنْ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ" رُفِعَ الْقَلَمُ عَنْ ثَلَاثٍ عَنْ النَّائِمِ حَتَّى يَسْتَيْقِظَ وَعَنْ الصَّغِيرِ حَتَّى يَكْبُرَ وَعَنْ الْمَجْنُونِ حَتَّى يَعْقِلَ أَوْ يُفِيقَ"

 

that's my bad translation

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Brother Ahmad I think Ron is just asking in general how mental illnesses are viewed in Islam

 

And yes Islam does deal with this issue - however mental illness is a vast category in contemporary times including things like addictions - and I am not sure if Islam would actually view addictions as a mental illness (others can correct me if I am wrong) but rather about weakness of controlling oneself and lack of self discipline etc And then I think Islam would view more serious cases such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder in relation to jinn.

I also read a hadith that the a person who is mentally ill is among the people who will not be held accountable for his/her actions, although I cannot locate it I will keep looking (or perhaps someone else knows it?)

 

Allah also told us that for every disease there is a cure.

 

But in short yes Islam does recognise that mental illnesses do exist.

I would like to do more research on this area actually because I find it interesting..I might start a new thread about it then.

 

Thanks for this.

I magine that even at the time of the prophet (and earlier) there would have been people who showed certain kinds of 'trouble', not recognisable by physical symptoms. But as you say, in todays world which is so much more complex there are conditions which wouls have been unknown hundreds of years ago.

Of course there is also the issue of political - or even religious - conformity which in George Orwell's 1984, for example and also seen in the Russia of the 40's and 50's, in which those citizens who for whatever reason failed to conform to the state's will were locked up and considered to be 'mentally ill'.

 

It is an interesting subject.

 

regards,

 

ron

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KABUL, Afghanistan — Staff Sgt. Robert Bales was charged on Friday with 17 counts of premeditated murder and six counts of assault and attempted murder in connection with a March 11 attack on Afghan civilians, American forces in Afghanistan said.

 

If convicted of premeditated murder, Sergeant Bales could face the death penalty, according to the announcement, which also stated that a minimum penalty on the charge is a life sentence with the possibility of parole.

 

Full Story:http://www.nytimes.c...n-killings.html

 

I am glad that at least the case is progressing.

Edited by ParadiseLost

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two main points,

do you think it would be better for a medical Afghani staff to share in this medical issue.....

 

No. They don't have the resources. Their brand of medicine could hardly be called 'cutting edge'. I wouldn't send a dog to an afghani hospital.

 

even if that was right and this sergent have some mental problems, don't you see that the one who gave a machine gun to such a person did a mistake?

 

It looks like he was acting 'normal' and then just 'snapped'. From what I've read, alcohol played a part in it.

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No. They don't have the resources. Their brand of medicine could hardly be called 'cutting edge'. I wouldn't send a dog to an afghani hospital.

that will defeat the allegations of rebuilding the 8th centuary countries or civilizing the non-civilized people. if the USA and NATO failed to train only one, one only Afghani physisian, for 11 years, what kind of civilization they exported to them??

 

It looks like he was acting 'normal' and then just 'snapped'. From what I've read, alcohol played a part in it.

is it allowed for the solders in duties to have win??

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that will defeat the allegations of rebuilding the 8th centuary countries or civilizing the non-civilized people. if the USA and NATO failed to train only one, one only Afghani physisian, for 11 years, what kind of civilization they exported to them??

 

The U.S. isn't sending people through medical school. They're training security forces but the afghans are too lazy to even learn how to defend themselves. They run away, get drunk and smoke hashish, instead.

 

is it allowed for the solders in duties to have win??

 

No.

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