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How On Earth A 'feeling' Is What It Takes To Change Faith?

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Assalamu Alaikum

 

I just recently reverted to Islam, after a year and a few months of researching, thinking, and taking time to actually understand the religion in general. I was a Christian, I was not born into Christianity but I did "accept" it while I was living with my father for a while. I felt like I understood and enjoyed being a Christian but at one point, I knew i had to find something else that suited me. I researched Buddhism, Judaism, and even Hinduism. I wasn't pleased with any of them. Then I came across a program that aired on Nat Geo that documented muslims going to Makkah for the first time. It amazed me simply becuase it showed how much muslims in general respected Islam, compared to many other religions I came across (not saying others don't) but Islam just felt right for me. I took some time researching Islam on youtube and numerous other websites and I've learned a lot. The one thing I need to learn most importantly are the prayers, and how they must be done and when. Inshallah I will graciously learn everything within a matter of time. I'm sixteen years old by the way and I'm very glad I came across Islam at this age. I know I still have a lot to learn and I will with time. I already have an English Translated Qu'ran but I believe the original one in Arabic text is definitely the one to read. Although I still haven't learned to read or write in Arabic I hope I do soon.

How on earth could you be a Christian when a 'feeling' was all that it took to change your faith?

I don't think you really knew Jesus Christ in the first place, else you'd have never reverted back to bondage by law - Islam will doom you to a life of failing by law and you'll never know the grace of God through Jesus Christ,

Since you claim to know both religions, can you please describe the differences between the Islamic Jesus and the Biblical Jesus Christ for me? and most importantly why the Jesus of the Koran is more important to you. Please use as much of the Old testament as possible to elabourate your points.

 

[admin note: topic created with split posts from "Just Reverted To Islam")

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How on earth could you be a Christian when a 'feeling' was all that it took to change your faith?

I don't think you really knew Jesus Christ in the first place, else you'd have never reverted back to bondage by law - Islam will doom you to a life of failing by law and you'll never know the grace of God through Jesus Christ,

Since you claim to know both religions, can you please describe the differences between the Islamic Jesus and the Biblical Jesus Christ for me? and most importantly why the Jesus of the Koran is more important to you. Please use as much of the Old testament as possible to elabourate your points.

 

I don't think he will answer very soon. But clearly he saw what you haven't seen. Bondage by law? I laughed at that. Allah's law will guarantee us towards a better life. No free sex (preventing AIDS and unwanted baby), no drunk (alcohol is not good for body), no dangerous food (did you know that pork is not healthy?), fasting (it is healthy), salah/praying (it is healthy as well), etc. All Allah's rules have good reasons and proven by science. If you want to have an easy life lead by a promise of "total salvation" then go on. But don't disturb the others who wants to have a good life and salvation by God. You can have a good time perhaps only for several years by that free lifestyle, after that be ready for any dangerous diseases or complicated problems. In afterlife, get prepared to be burnt forever. You can laugh now, but the proverb, "The last man laughes will win" will definitely be proven ;)

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How on earth could you be a Christian when a 'feeling' was all that it took to change your faith?

I don't think you really knew Jesus Christ in the first place, else you'd have never reverted back to bondage by law - Islam will doom you to a life of failing by law and you'll never know the grace of God through Jesus Christ,

Since you claim to know both religions, can you please describe the differences between the Islamic Jesus and the Biblical Jesus Christ for me? and most importantly why the Jesus of the Koran is more important to you. Please use as much of the Old testament as possible to elabourate your points.

 

and how can you believe that jesus is God, even though bible say God is not a man, and jesus is man, in other words jesus is not God.

 

you christians have terrible logic, 1+1+1=1 or that jesus died for your sins, even though bible said that nobody shall die for anyone.

 

just watch this debate between muslim and christian, and you will know how stuff works, when christians get into debates with muslims then people can realise how weak arguments christians have.

 

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I don't think he will answer very soon. But clearly he saw what you haven't seen. Bondage by law? I laughed at that. Allah's law will guarantee us towards a better life. No free sex (preventing AIDS and unwanted baby), no drunk (alcohol is not good for body), no dangerous food (did you know that pork is not healthy?), fasting (it is healthy), salah/praying (it is healthy as well), etc. All Allah's rules have good reasons and proven by science. If you want to have an easy life lead by a promise of "total salvation" then go on. But don't disturb the others who wants to have a good life and salvation by God. You can have a good time perhaps only for several years by that free lifestyle, after that be ready for any dangerous diseases or complicated problems. In afterlife, get prepared to be burnt forever. You can laugh now, but the proverb, "The last man laughes will win" will definitely be proven ;)

 

If you laughed at 'Bondage by law' then you don't understand or appreciate either the law, your own sinfull nature or worse of all, both.

As Christians we crave for the same morality as the Law describes, however as sinners we will always fail this law, and if you think that you don't then you are lying to yourself and have therefore failed it.

Therefore you must take note of your hopless situation, you are a slave to sin my friend, and the good news is that Jesus Christ has saved you, he was the perfect sacrifice paying for your sins in full - he is the way the truth the life, no one gets to the Father but by him, and no amount of ritual, circuling of mecca, praying 5 times a day or fasting will get you anywhere without him.

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and how can you believe that jesus is God, even though bible say God is not a man, and jesus is man, in other words jesus is not God.

 

you christians have terrible logic, 1+1+1=1 or that jesus died for your sins, even though bible said that nobody shall die for anyone.

 

just watch this debate between muslim and christian, and you will know how stuff works, when christians get into debates with muslims then people can realise how weak arguments christians have.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLySrGMt-4M&feature=g-high-rec

 

Well you don't understand the Tri-une God! The whole basis of scripture points to it, however for you to refute it means re-writing the complete Bible, so as Muslims you end up in a conundrum because you have to believe the BIble in order for your Koran to make sense, whilst having to reject a large majority of it because it points to Jesus Christ.

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If you laughed at 'Bondage by law' then you don't understand or appreciate either the law, your own sinfull nature or worse of all, both.

As Christians we crave for the same morality as the Law describes, however as sinners we will always fail this law, and if you think that you don't then you are lying to yourself and have therefore failed it.

Therefore you must take note of your hopless situation, you are a slave to sin my friend, and the good news is that Jesus Christ has saved you, he was the perfect sacrifice paying for your sins in full - he is the way the truth the life, no one gets to the Father but by him, and no amount of ritual, circuling of mecca, praying 5 times a day or fasting will get you anywhere without him.

 

No, I laughed at YOUR DICTION! We as muslim don't feel that Allah's rules is "bondage by law" as I have explained above.

Clearly from your statement, you want an easy and happy life so make excuse about failing to have morality because of natural sins. You should know that no muslim will believe natural sins whatsover because Allah has said in Quran that we will bear our own sins.

And who says anyone will always fail to obey the law? It seems that your life is surrounded by bad people :D Have you heard about sufi? They are very pious people above average muslims. Many of them will enter paradise without test in hereafter, as proof that they have perfect score in the term of obidience to Allah's law in this world. So your statement about this is FAIL!

Also, it does not make sense if everyone, good and bad, get the same place in hereafter. If so, why don't all of us being murderers and robbers? All of us is slave to sin and will be forgiven, right? So, it seems your religion give justification for men to be bad in the world!

Therefore you must take note of your

hopless situation, you are a slave to falsehood my friend, and the good news is that Islam can save you, it is the way the truth the life, no one gets to the Allah but by Islam, and no amount of

ritual, singing for Jesus, reading bible, or pilgrimage to holy land will get you anywhere without it :D

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[at]Chris _212 walaiykum salaam brother. feel free to message me if you need any help learning Islam or with some things as it pertains to people like xtremelycheesey here who have been proven wrong time and again and in his particular case has been chastised by at least two of his fellow Christians.

 

[at]xtremecheese. you really going to come at him like that? 1) you know full well your religion does not teach you to belittle people like that 2) as it pertains to Christianity by following in line with your belief system clearly you do not know your own belief or otherwise you would practice it. What does Galations 5:22-23 say?

 

let's review shall we?

 

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

 

Now what are the fruits of the flesh?

 

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galations 5:19-21

 

how does it pertain to your approach on here?

 

Well what does discord mean?

 

 

http://dictionary.re...wse/discord?s=t"]http://dictionary.re...wse/discord?s=t

 

Now if you really want to get into a debate on that whole subject you can narrow it down to something specific, start a thread and you can debate it with someone like myself who knows how to deal with such comments. Your brother in Christianity was a well versed Christian with impressive knowledge and the best he could do was stalemate with me. You come after Muslims who are new to the faith, you use near belligerent language, and to top it off he is a teenager.

 

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Matthew 7:1-5

 

Go take care of that plank brother cause it looks like a log ;)

Edited by abdullahfath

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No, I laughed at YOUR DICTION! We as muslim don't feel that Allah's rules is "bondage by law" as I have explained above.

Clearly from your statement, you want an easy and happy life so make excuse about failing to have morality because of natural sins. You should know that no muslim will believe natural sins whatsover because Allah has said in Quran that we will bear our own sins.

And who says anyone will always fail to obey the law? It seems that your life is surrounded by bad people :D Have you heard about sufi? They are very pious people above average muslims. Many of them will enter paradise without test in hereafter, as proof that they have perfect score in the term of obidience to Allah's law in this world. So your statement about this is FAIL!

Also, it does not make sense if everyone, good and bad, get the same place in hereafter. If so, why don't all of us being murderers and robbers? All of us is slave to sin and will be forgiven, right? So, it seems your religion give justification for men to be bad in the world!

Therefore you must take note of your

hopless situation, you are a slave to falsehood my friend, and the good news is that Islam can save you, it is the way the truth the life, no one gets to the Allah but by Islam, and no amount of

ritual, singing for Jesus, reading bible, or pilgrimage to holy land will get you anywhere without it :D

 

No, my sins are my sins which I do willfully - as you do them willfully too, hence we are all sinners. God's law is written on our hearts - remember we were made in God's image which is why we know that we fall short of perfection. As a Christian however falling short bothers me and therefore I am eternaly in awe of my saviour Jesus Christ - as a muslim you are in a hopelss situation because you fail your own standards, and please don't lie and tell me you don't.

It is through the love of Christ that makes us Christians abhor sin, I do not see that in Muslims, you have your law and your flesh strives against it. Meanwhile Christians have the law and it was fullfiled by the only man qualified to do so - Jesus Christ, as sinners we are therefore free of our flesh as our sins have been covered by his blood. Find out who the real Jesus is now before it's too late, you'll never get to heaven on your own.

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No, my sins are my sins which I do willfully - as you do them willfully too, hence we are all sinners. God's law is written on our hearts - remember we were made in God's image which is why we know that we fall short of perfection. As a Christian however falling short bothers me and therefore I am eternaly in awe of my saviour Jesus Christ - as a muslim you are in a hopelss situation because you fail your own standards, and please don't lie and tell me you don't.

It is through the love of Christ that makes us Christians abhor sin, I do not see that in Muslims, you have your law and your flesh strives against it. Meanwhile Christians have the law and it was fullfiled by the only man qualified to do so - Jesus Christ, as sinners we are therefore free of our flesh as our sins have been covered by his blood. Find out who the real Jesus is now before it's too late, you'll never get to heaven on your own.

 

You do need saving if you can do sin "willfully". I am not perfect but everyday I try to be better at avoiding sins. If we follow Allah's rules then we will be good and happy. The society will be saved and peaceful because everyone is not tempted to do sin "willfully" like what christians offer. We are not the slave of sin.

Didn't you read about Sufi? So your reason that musim fail in our standar is irrelevant!

You are really in hopeless situation. Love won't bring you to sin, if so then it is wrong type of love. While the love of Allah in his rules bring us to happy, healthy, and peaceful life. I don't know any rules better than it.

Christians say they believe in God but they do free sex, drunk, curse, etc. Nonetheless, every Sunday they go to the chruch. What a contrary. How can a religion allow the followers to be bad and religious at the same time? What for a religion if the followers still do bad things? Weird! In Islam, religious man won't be drunk, do free sex, our do any bad manners. Islam makes its followers be a good men.

I know who is Jesus. He is a prophet of Allah. In the last hour he will descend again for the second times to break the cross, kill the swine, and abolish jizya.

It does not make sense if our sins are covered by one man. As I said before, it is not fair if good man (for example bishop) and bad man (for example murderer) get the same place in herafter.

Learn about Islam before it is too late. You won't go to heaven unless reciting shahada

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Check out all your sins - you did them with intent and willfully. This means that your flesh is subject to sin. God laid down his laws in the form of the ten commandments (see Exodus 20 for details) and no-one (with the exception of Jesus Christ - that's the one of the Bible, not some dead phoney that you'll find in the Koran) has been capable of keeping them. Are you suggesting that we place even more laws onto ourselves? The 10 commandments revealed to us how we need a saviour, yes by follwoing them we'd have a perfect society, but we can't and don't.

Therefore you are slaves to the law, and by adding more laws to yourself simply magnifies your condition - praying in public, showing everyone how good you are by walking around a cube indeed and growing correct facial hair indeed!

A true born again Christian does not approve of free sex, drunkeness and curseing - and as for muslims not doing so? don't make me laugh, I have been to the middle east and I can testify that muslims also fly out to other countries so that they can indulge in such activites.

You law does not save or change you, it forces you - which is slavery.

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Check out all your sins - you did them with intent and willfully. This means that your flesh is subject to sin. God laid down his laws in the form of the ten commandments (see Exodus 20 for details) and no-one (with the exception of Jesus Christ - that's the one of the Bible, not some dead phoney that you'll find in the Koran) has been capable of keeping them. Are you suggesting that we place even more laws onto ourselves? The 10 commandments revealed to us how we need a saviour, yes by follwoing them we'd have a perfect society, but we can't and don't.

Therefore you are slaves to the law, and by adding more laws to yourself simply magnifies your condition - praying in public, showing everyone how good you are by walking around a cube indeed and growing correct facial hair indeed!

A true born again Christian does not approve of free sex, drunkeness and curseing - and as for muslims not doing so? don't make me laugh, I have been to the middle east and I can testify that muslims also fly out to other countries so that they can indulge in such activites.

You law does not save or change you, it forces you - which is slavery.

 

It is funny that you acknowledged 10 commandements. Isn't it belongs to Jews first, brought by Prophet Mouses (pbuh)? Did you know that Jews only acknowledge 1 true God, not 1 God with 3 personalities which strangely 1 of them become "son"? I think if they are all one, none of them being lower than another.

I have done sins, yeah, but not all of them willfully. Mostly I regretted over them and tried not to do it again in the future.

Jesus is not dead yet, so you are false AGAIN! Allah raised him to heaven and postponed his time so he can descend again in last hour to fight Anti-Christ, the Dajjal. At that time, all christians will be shocked to see someone that they worship all this time break the cross and kill their swines. Oh yeah, I can't wait that to happen! ;)

I am proud to follow Allah's rules and basically all muslims are slaves of Allah, The God. I think it is a lot better than a group of men who proudly claimed to be the slaves of sin. Everybody knews that sin is a bad thing, so why are you proud to be slave of something so bad?

It is strange that some christians still try to be good. What for? They can be the worst people ever but still be forgiven, can't they? So why all christians don't be druglord or something bad? Isn't this that they want, to be capable of making as many sins as they can without worrying to go the hell because of promise of "total salvation"? Don't you see contradiction here? I see it and not surprised because many of bible verses clash as well with each other. Inconsistency is a common part in christianity.

If muslims are bad, they will go to hell, not magically go to heaven. Unlike christianity that makes no difference of someone good and bad. Allah will reward someone based on his merit on earth. Don't you see the fairness of Allah here?

So it is up to you now. You can choose an easy and happy life but face complicated problems and diseases later in the future also will go to hell forever or join Islam which makes sense, offers you fairness and salvation, also leads you to a good life.

You religion does not save or change you, it misleads you - which is also a total liar

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It's not a case that the 10 commandments belonged to anyone, the 10 commandments are everybody's worst enemy because we are condemdedm by them! the Jewish people had to sacrifice animals because of them! and as Christians our sacrifice is God himself in the form of Jesus Christ.

Sadly for you muslims you don't have this, only some sort of religious flim flam that makes you think that you are forgiven.

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It's not a case that the 10 commandments belonged to anyone, the 10 commandments are everybody's worst enemy because we are condemdedm by them! the Jewish people had to sacrifice animals because of them! and as Christians our sacrifice is God himself in the form of Jesus Christ.

Sadly for you muslims you don't have this, only some sort of religious flim flam that makes you think that you are forgiven.

 

Ah, poor you,lost soul. Enjoy your short happiness when it lasts because after that, Allah will torture you, not only in the hereafter but also in the earth by giving a lot of complicated problems and diseases.

Our dear Jesus won't save you from hell. He will be againts all christians in hereafter as written in Quran. Oh, wait, even before hereafter he will destroy your belief in the last hour.

We, muslims, also have a safeguard, you know. Shahada will bring us to heaven eventually. But some bad muslims will stay in hell first depends on their sins. After they are tortured and their sins have been forgiven, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) will save us from hell and we will enter heaven. While the nonmuslims will stay in hell FOREVER without the chance of forgiving. Because religion comes first for Allah.

See, isn't it fair? We will enter hell because of our sins and will be forgiven after that because of our faith, so people will be motivated to be good muslims. Because if we are good like sufi, ulema, and imam, there will be chance to not go to hell at all and straightly go to heaven!

But your religion offers a concept which totally makes no sense : all people, good or bad, will be forgiven without any punishments at all. Where is the justice? Where is the fairness? There is no free lunch on earth, why do you expect one in hereafter?

No wonder people is neglecting christianity all over the world and embracing Islam, a religion which makes sense. I am not joking. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world nowadays. That should be a sign for you, if you can think clearly.

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Ah, poor you,lost soul. Enjoy your short happiness when it lasts because after that, Allah will torture you, not only in the hereafter but also in the earth by giving a lot of complicated problems and diseases.

Our dear Jesus won't save you from hell. He will be againts all christians in hereafter as written in Quran. Oh, wait, even before hereafter he will destroy your belief in the last hour.

What an utterly terrible thing to say, totaly devoid of any love or compassion - is this the result of your laws? don't you see that as a Christian, good deeds and following the law aren't the way to be saved, they are the product of being saved. Being saved is a supernatual event that comes from God and the way to God is through Jesus Christ - THE way THE truth THE life - man cannot work his way to salvation because he's flawed by sin - you blatantly fail the laws you place over you and are therefore a slave to them - do you understand?

 

We, muslims, also have a safeguard, you know. Shahada will bring us to heaven eventually. But some bad muslims will stay in hell first depends on their sins. After they are tortured and their sins have been forgiven, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) will save us from hell and we will enter heaven. While the nonmuslims will stay in hell FOREVER without the chance of forgiving. Because religion comes first for Allah.

See, isn't it fair? We will enter hell because of our sins and will be forgiven after that because of our faith, so people will be motivated to be good muslims. Because if we are good like sufi, ulema, and imam, there will be chance to not go to hell at all and straightly go to heaven!

 

How does the person who claimed to be a prophet called Mohammed have the ability to save you from your sins? what are the mechanisims? for the sake of continuity between religions which Muslim's claim, please tell me what had to happen to cover a man's sin in the old testament?

Also good and bad Muslim? please explain that comment, is a bad muslim someone who has lied once in his life? or is there a bar like ooh, 100 lies your are good and 101 and you are bad?

Is a good muslim one who lives strictly to the word of the Koran - including the verse of the sword?

The old and new Testaments do not have such ambiguity, they state that all have fallen short of glory, and that mans highest state of being is vanity - therefore we deserve death and need a saviour, and that saviour can be found in Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

 

But your religion offers a concept which totally makes no sense : all people, good or bad, will be forgiven without any punishments at all. Where is the justice? Where is the fairness? There is no free lunch on earth, why do you expect one in hereafter?

No wonder people is neglecting christianity all over the world and embracing Islam, a religion which makes sense. I am not joking. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world nowadays. That should be a sign for you, if you can think clearly.

 

God's wrath for my sins was poured out on his son Jesus Christ on the cross of calvery. Though we suffer in this world constantly, it is of every comfort to me that God became one of us and suffered most of all. This is why the dead Jesus of the Koran who survived the cross is perhaps the greatest blasphemy and insult against Christianity.

Islam is increasing because the world is becomming more delusional, people don't want to be told they are sinners - despite it being blatantly obvious. The average Christian simply want's to add Jesus to thier lives just as the person who claimed to be a prophet called Mohammed added a Jesus to his Koran. Our lives need to be given to Jesus - he's the only one capable of saving you becasue the reality is of course that we are all sinners and not gods. Islam teaches that works save you and as fallen men, your works are fallen - you need Jesus Christ.

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What an utterly terrible thing to say, totaly devoid of any love or compassion - is this the result of your laws? don't you see that as a Christian, good deeds and following the law aren't the way to be saved, they are the product of being saved. Being saved is a supernatual event that comes from God and the way to God is through Jesus Christ - THE way THE truth THE life - man cannot work his way to salvation because he's flawed by sin - you blatantly fail the laws you place over you and are therefore a slave to them - do you understand?

 

 

 

How does the person who claimed to be a prophet called Mohammed have the ability to save you from your sins? what are the mechanisims? for the sake of continuity between religions which Muslim's claim, please tell me what had to happen to cover a man's sin in the old testament?

Also good and bad Muslim? please explain that comment, is a bad muslim someone who has lied once in his life? or is there a bar like ooh, 100 lies your are good and 101 and you are bad?

Is a good muslim one who lives strictly to the word of the Koran - including the verse of the sword?

The old and new Testaments do not have such ambiguity, they state that all have fallen short of glory, and that mans highest state of being is vanity - therefore we deserve death and need a saviour, and that saviour can be found in Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

 

 

 

God's wrath for my sins was poured out on his son Jesus Christ on the cross of calvery. Though we suffer in this world constantly, it is of every comfort to me that God became one of us and suffered most of all. This is why the dead Jesus of the Koran who survived the cross is perhaps the greatest blasphemy and insult against Christianity.

Islam is increasing because the world is becomming more delusional, people don't want to be told they are sinners - despite it being blatantly obvious. The average Christian simply want's to add Jesus to thier lives just as the person who claimed to be a prophet called Mohammed added a Jesus to his Koran. Our lives need to be given to Jesus - he's the only one capable of saving you becasue the reality is of course that we are all sinners and not gods. Islam teaches that works save you and as fallen men, your works are fallen - you need Jesus Christ.

 

What an utterly terrible thing to say, totaly devoid of common sense - is this the result of your dogma? don't you see that as muslim, good deeds and following the law are the way to be saved, they aren't the product of being saved. Being saved is not a supernatual event that comes from God and the way to God is through Islam - THE way THE truth THE life - man cannot work his way to everyone's salvation because he's flawed by sin - you blatantly fail the laws you place below you and are therefore a slave to dogma and sin - do you understand? :D

The mechanism is simple : Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) prays for us to Allah to forgive muslim and Allah forgives us. Yes, he PRAYS, like Prophet Adam, Noah, Moses, until Jesus (pbut). He does not need to do a big drama like you believe Jesus did on earth for total salvation. And don't ask me about old testament, I am not bible scholar, but I know that Islam fits and continues the story of prophethood from Prophet Adam (pbuh) to Jesus (pbuh). Our similiarity with Jews in the concept of God has shown it all. Only your religion is different. Don't you think that its difference with previous religion/Judaism is the sign of FALSEHOOD?

Actually Prophet Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (pbut) brought the same messages if only the message wasn't corrupted overtime, i.e. to worship one God, Allah. Islam is the last and final revelation therefore Allah guards it from corruption. He said in Quran,

 

“We have without doubt sent down the

Message; and We will assuredly guard it

(from corruption).” (15:9)

 

Bad muslim is somene whose weight of bad deeds heavier than good deeds. In judgement day, every our action will be count, even if its result is as small as the atom. Look at this verse:

 

"That Day, the people will depart separated

[into categories] to be shown [the result

of] their deeds. So whoever does an atom's weight of good will see it, And whoever does an atom's weight of evil will see it." (99 : 6-8)

 

In hereafter, Allah will measure our deeds using something like scales. If our good deeds are heavier than the bad deeds, we will go to heaven, if not, we will go to hell. But that only works for muslims and the true followers of previous prophets. The rest will be thrown to hell automatically because the faith to Allah is the main essence to the salvation.

Also, you must know that there is no word "sword" even one in Quran, but there are 200 words of "sword" in bible! Including this:

 

"Do not suppose that I have come to

bring peace to the earth. I did not

come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10: 34)

 

So, yeah, I laughed at your false claim, AGAIN!

Don't forget about Spanish Inquisition that killed tribal people and force the survivor to convert. Also imperialism which inspired by your oh-so-peaceful religion. Your religion always forced conversion in your conquered territory. Islam NEVER forced anyone to convert in its territory. So, still think that Islam is cruel? Your religion is far worse than us!

No, that is contradiction. If your holy book stated it like that, than what for is being good in this earth? Do you want a society full of chaos? It is not a good religion if gives justification to do sin!

Why do you say Jesus as "son"? Isn't him one with the "father"?And why do you worship him not the father? Why do you not worship the holy spirit? Aren't all of them one? That is so confusing and the fact that you believe that confusion is the sign of how hopeless you are

Didn't you read my post? Jesus is not dead YET in Quran. He will descend again to this earth to fix your wrong belief and destroy dajjal.

YOU are the delusional one and all who flee from your religion proves that they can't accept that man-made and confusing concept. Even your own pope told us that christmas is not the birthday of Jesus and all myths behind it were fake. Oh, even the pope found mistake in your religion! What kind of religion which always need revision from human? Why are your God's words wrong including when saying that the earth was flat?Another proof of the flaws in your religion.

Islam has no flaw and compatible with science. If you want to choose a religion which is full of flaws then go on. But many people including me still have this magical filter called "common sense" and "brain", thank you. You need a saviour, and your saviour is not Jesus but Islam.

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What an utterly terrible thing to say, totaly devoid of common sense - is this the result of your dogma? don't you see that as muslim, good deeds and following the law are the way to be saved, they aren't the product of being saved. Being saved is not a supernatual event that comes from God and the way to God is through Islam - THE way THE truth THE life - man cannot work his way to everyone's salvation because he's flawed by sin - you blatantly fail the laws you place below you and are therefore a slave to dogma and sin - do you understand? :D

This is contentless childish tit for tat, please don't stoop to these measures.

Yes I blatantly fail the law but I don't place it below me - hence why I asked if you understood - you don't.

The law is above me, and it condems me - hence why I fail it (and you do too).

Therefore I (and you) can never fulfill the law, however my Saviour did - he's God, I am not.

It's by his standards that I'm saved and not my own.

The mechanism is simple : Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) prays for us to Allah to forgive muslim and Allah forgives us. Yes, he PRAYS, like Prophet Adam, Noah, Moses, until Jesus (pbut). He does not need to do a big drama like you believe Jesus did on earth for total salvation. And don't ask me about old testament, I am not bible scholar, but I know that Islam fits and continues the story of prophethood from Prophet Adam (pbuh) to Jesus (pbuh). Our similiarity with Jews in the concept of God has shown it all. Only your religion is different. Don't you think that its difference with previous religion/Judaism is the sign of FALSEHOOD?

Actually Prophet Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (pbut) brought the same messages if only the message wasn't corrupted overtime, i.e. to worship one God, Allah. Islam is the last and final revelation therefore Allah guards it from corruption. He said in Quran,

 

Adam, Noah and Moses were all sinners, and they all knew about the prophecy of Genesis 3:15, in the meantime they covered thier sins just as God covered Adam and Eve's sin by the killing of clean animals (Gen 3:21) - the wages of sin are death you see (Rom 6:23), there is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood. Merely praying to God will not take your sin away - if you think otherwise then you have completely mistaken the Old Testament - and the person who claimed to be a prophet called mohammed did! there's no way anyone who was well versed in Biblical scripture could ever except verses of the Koran as a compliment to cannon.

If you check the BIble we have 39 chapters of it in common with the Jewish belief - all with continuity to the New Testament - all pointing towards a messiah, if you check the Koran, it's piecemeal odds and ends that make little sense.

So what sacrifice was made so that the person who claimed himself to be a prophet called Mohammed could qualify as someone who could grant or mediate forgiveness of sins? It seems to me like you need to brush up on Leviticus.

 

 

Bad muslim is somene whose weight of bad deeds heavier than good deeds. In judgement day, every our action will be count, even if its result is as small as the atom. Look at this verse:

In hereafter, Allah will measure our deeds using something like scales. If our good deeds are heavier than the bad deeds, we will go to heaven, if not, we will go to hell. But that only works for muslims and the true followers of previous prophets. The rest will be thrown to hell automatically because the faith to Allah is the main essence to the salvation.

Then you fail, your bad deeds outdo your good, and if you want to try to argue otherwise then that makes you a liar.

If there was a machine that could recite out loud every thougt you had in the past hour, you'd do your upmost best to destroy it so that no-one would know what you think - the law condems you my friend, you need a saviour, and that saviour is Jesus Christ.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, you must know that there is no word "sword" even one in Quran, but there are 200 words of "sword" in bible! Including this:

 

"Do not suppose that I have come to

bring peace to the earth. I did not

come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10: 34)

 

But when I google "Koran 9:5" why do I get "Verse of the sword"?

And by the way the sword spoken of by Jesus was the word of God.

<Yawn>

 

 

 

 

Don't forget about Spanish Inquisition that killed tribal people and force the survivor to convert. Also imperialism which inspired by your oh-so-peaceful religion. Your religion always forced conversion in your conquered territory. Islam NEVER forced anyone to convert in its territory. So, still think that Islam is cruel? Your religion is far worse than us!

Your Koran tells people to convert or pay taxes and it's the verse of the sword too (Koran 9:5)

you are a LIAR - shame on you.

How do you expect me to continue this?

Please expalin why you have to lie?

Keeper of law indeed - you have no love for it - Shame on you.

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Congratulation brother Chris_212 for embracing Islam, I am really happy for you.

 

Turning to the discussion, I confirm that as human, we are all sinner. But, I would simply ask you Mr. xtremecheese, and here I would refer to your statements “Jesus Christ, as sinners we are therefore free of our flesh as our sins have been covered by his blood”. That means if you commit any kind of sins even changing your creeds for example accept Islam or other religion you will be saved as you are considered as a sinner and you will enter the paradise since Jesus has already wiped your sins by killing himself. In this case, if you accept Islam and it turns it true you will be saved and if it appears not true you will be also save as Jesus will covers your sins.

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This is contentless childish tit for tat, please don't stoop to these measures.

Yes I blatantly fail the law but I don't place it below me - hence why I asked if you understood - you don't.

The law is above me, and it condems me - hence why I fail it (and you do too).

Therefore I (and you) can never fulfill the law, however my Saviour did - he's God, I am not.

It's by his standards that I'm saved and not my own.

 

 

Adam, Noah and Moses were all sinners, and they all knew about the prophecy of Genesis 3:15, in the meantime they covered thier sins just as God covered Adam and Eve's sin by the killing of clean animals (Gen 3:21) - the wages of sin are death you see (Rom 6:23), there is no remission of sins without the shedding of blood. Merely praying to God will not take your sin away - if you think otherwise then you have completely mistaken the Old Testament - and the person who claimed to be a prophet called mohammed did! there's no way anyone who was well versed in Biblical scripture could ever except verses of the Koran as a compliment to cannon.

If you check the BIble we have 39 chapters of it in common with the Jewish belief - all with continuity to the New Testament - all pointing towards a messiah, if you check the Koran, it's piecemeal odds and ends that make little sense.

So what sacrifice was made so that the person who claimed himself to be a prophet called Mohammed could qualify as someone who could grant or mediate forgiveness of sins? It seems to me like you need to brush up on Leviticus.

 

 

 

Then you fail, your bad deeds outdo your good, and if you want to try to argue otherwise then that makes you a liar.

If there was a machine that could recite out loud every thougt you had in the past hour, you'd do your upmost best to destroy it so that no-one would know what you think - the law condems you my friend, you need a saviour, and that saviour is Jesus Christ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But when I google "Koran 9:5" why do I get "Verse of the sword"?

And by the way the sword spoken of by Jesus was the word of God.

<Yawn>

 

 

 

 

 

Your Koran tells people to convert or pay taxes and it's the verse of the sword too (Koran 9:5)

you are a LIAR - shame on you.

How do you expect me to continue this?

Please expalin why you have to lie?

Keeper of law indeed - you have no love for it - Shame on you.

 

Again with that "failing law" reason, can you search for another reason which at least makes sense a bit? :D I have explained all about "failing law" above. I or muslims are not fail but you are, because you are too lazy to do good but expect heaven. It is the same as you want a million dollar per month without working. Do you think it is possible? :D

Perhaps you forget that Islam and Judaism have only one God, and God concept is the most crucial of all. We also share the same prophet, Mouses, and have own ways to slaughter animals. Not to mention another similiar fundamental religious outlook, structure, jurisprudence and

practice. And perhaps I forget to mention that your bible is corrupted so bring it as proof to Islamic forum is useless.

Besides I don't believe Adam and Eve version of bible, the same as I don't believe that Noah was drunkard, Lot did incest with his daughters, flirty Solomon, David did adultery, etc. They are PROPHETS for the God's sake! If your president is phedopile, will you still follow him? I am sure not, except if you are out of your mind. My point is, if you don't want your mundane leader is troubled person like that, do you think God will choose a trouble person as his messenger? No way! In Quran, prophets were all noble and good. That makes sense! If you feel otherwise, it is up to you, but at least there is no one that can figure out any mistakes in Quran and it has no revision until now.While your holy book falls into all those categories!

The concept of praying for forgiveness has been there anywhere, including in judaism, even in christian as well! (the catholics known for praying for forgiveness through virgin mary,although I can't understand why do they need to ask for forgiveness?Didn't jesus cover them all? Hohoho, another contradiction!) So yeah, we need not sacrifice for forgiveness, nor the jews, and I am really curious here why only your religion left :P

I laughed again at that statement of yours about "your bad will outdo your good". Just because you can't do good or think properly even for 30 minutes, doesn't mean all people are like that. I dare to say that I am not like that nor lying. I use almost all my time to do something constructive so I almost have no time to think of something bad. Don't ask for ulema/sufi/imam, they will mostly recite Allah's name nearly 24/7. Go to a muslim's Masjid and you will see what I mean.

And what is it with Quran verse 9:5? "Sword verse"? Okay, let's see together:

 

"And when the sacred months have passed,

then kill the polytheists wherever you

find them and capture them and besiege

them and sit in wait for them at every

place of ambush. But if they should

repent, establish prayer, and give zakah,

let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah

is Forgiving and Merciful." (9:5)

 

Okay, where is the "sword" word? This verse is part of At-Tawbah, translated as "The Repentance", not the "sword verse".Where is the "sword" thingy? And since when "sword" becomes "word" in bible? :D How's bout this?

 

Ezekiel Chapter 21

15 I have set the point of the

sword against all their gates, that

their heart may faint, and their

ruins be multiplied: ah! it is made

bright, it is wrapped up for the

slaughter.

 

And this:

 

Joshua Chapter 6

21 And they utterly destroyed all

that was in the city, both man and

woman, young and old, and ox,

and sheep, and , with the edge

of the sword.

 

Or this:

 

Ezekiel Chapter 32

10 Yea, I will make many people

amazed at thee, and their kings

shall be horribly afraid for thee,

when I shall brandish my sword

before them; and they shall

tremble at every moment, every

man for his own life, in the day of

thy fall.

 

And many more. Soo... those are the real "sword" words in bible. I wonder what transformation they will become after "word" has been used at the first "sword" verse :D

There is no compulsion in embracing Islam. If they don't wish to convert, just pay the tax. And all this time they have paid taxes to the kings, so nothing too different. But your religion would KILL if someone refused to convert. See the difference?

I was not lying, YOU WERE! That "sword verse" is totally fake!

you are a LIAR - shame on you!

How do you expect me to continue this?

Please explain why did you have to lie?

Keeper of falsehood indeed - you have no common sense for realizing it - Shame on you!

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We can go back and forth, picking out verses from the Qur'an and Bible. In the end, it depends on who is translating them and which verse you pick out. It would take a whole year to match verse by verse in this format.

 

Xtremecheese mentioned people were "forced" to convert or pay taxes, and ignored the second part of the phrase. Many Jews and Christians chose to pay taxes and not convert, and there was no trouble in that. Nobody was forced to convert, though I can say that it was highly encouraged.

 

Raihanna, you keep calling xtremecheese a liar, and for shame to be brought to him. This is not a good way of discussion, no matter who is right and who is wrong. He isn't a liar, because he truely believes what he is saying is correct. This isn't an attempt at deceit, but a search for knowledge.

 

If this discussion continues, I hope that it can be more civilized.

 

Allahu Alam.

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Raihanna, you keep calling xtremecheese a liar, and for shame to be brought to him. This is not a good way of discussion, no matter who is right and who is wrong. He isn't a liar, because he truely believes what he is saying is correct. This isn't an attempt at deceit, but a search for knowledge.

 

If this discussion continues, I hope that it can be more civilized.

 

Allahu Alam.

 

Assalamualaikum,

No, Sis, I just threw back what he just said to me. See, I just copied paste and altered the words so he can feel how it is to be mocked by his own words :D

The only statement I made was "I was not lying, you were". I even didn't put that word for him.

But thank you, I will be more patient! :)

Wassalam

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Since you claim to know both religions, can you please describe the differences between the Islamic Jesus and the Biblical Jesus Christ for me? and most importantly why the Jesus of the Koran is more important to you. Please use as much of the Old testament as possible to elabourate your points.

Truly & Falsely Jesus In the Bible

http://www.gawaher.c...e/#entry1253810

 

Well you don't understand the Tri-une God! The whole basis of scripture points to it, however for you to refute it means re-writing the complete Bible, so as Muslims you end up in a conundrum because you have to believe the BIble in order for your Koran to make sense, whilst having to reject a large majority of it because it points to Jesus Christ.

This may help for better understanding of the trinity

Dr. William Lane Craig’s analogy of the Trinity

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Xtremecheese mentioned people were "forced" to convert or pay taxes, and ignored the second part of the phrase. Many Jews and Christians chose to pay taxes and not convert, and there was no trouble in that. Nobody was forced to convert, though I can say that it was highly encouraged.

 

If someone here is unbiased, muslims would convert to christianity not to pay Zakat which is much higher that Taxes :D

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Congratulation brother Chris_212 for embracing Islam, I am really happy for you.

 

Turning to the discussion, I confirm that as human, we are all sinner. But, I would simply ask you Mr. xtremecheese, and here I would refer to your statements “Jesus Christ, as sinners we are therefore free of our flesh as our sins have been covered by his blood”. That means if you commit any kind of sins even changing your creeds for example accept Islam or other religion you will be saved as you are considered as a sinner and you will enter the paradise since Jesus has already wiped your sins by killing himself. In this case, if you accept Islam and it turns it true you will be saved and if it appears not true you will be also save as Jesus will covers your sins.

 

 

Then you have absolutely no concept of Islam, the koran states that Jesus didn't die on the cross and rise again after 3 days, please check your koran 5:158 :-

"Yes they did not slay him, neither crucifed him, only a likeness that was shown to them"

Therefore by Islam standards there was no sacrifice and no remission of sins.

Please go to school and learn your religion please before making banal statements.

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Again with that "failing law" reason, can you search for another reason which at least makes sense a bit? :D I have explained all about "failing law" above. I or muslims are not fail but you are, because you are too lazy to do good but expect heaven. It is the same as you want a million dollar per month without working. Do you think it is possible? :D

 

Calling me lazy is a very presumptious and insultive statement, however I take the critisisim, yes I am lazy - in fact the Bible goes a step further and tells us that every man's best state is vainity (Psalm 39:5) However, I have written very plainly that good works are not a means to being saved, but a result of being saved, they come natually to me now.

Sure you can go about your life and try and do as much good as possible, but in the end you are wanting your god to give you praise - which you don't deserve.

 

 

Perhaps you forget that Islam and Judaism have only one God, and God concept is the most crucial of all. We also share the same prophet, Mouses, and have own ways to slaughter animals. Not to mention another similiar fundamental religious outlook, structure, jurisprudence and

practice. And perhaps I forget to mention that your bible is corrupted so bring it as proof to Islamic forum is useless.

There is only one God, but you don't seem to understand the triune nature of Him, your scripture is alien to the Jewish old Testament and it's representation of Jesus is one of self critisisim.

Please end your own folly and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

 

 

Besides I don't believe Adam and Eve version of bible, the same as I don't believe that Noah was drunkard, Lot did incest with his daughters, flirty Solomon, David did adultery, etc. They are PROPHETS for the God's sake! If your president is phedopile, will you still follow him? I am sure not, except if you are out of your mind. My point is, if you don't want your mundane leader is troubled person like that, do you think God will choose a trouble person as his messenger? No way! In Quran, prophets were all noble and good. That makes sense! If you feel otherwise, it is up to you, but at least there is no one that can figure out any mistakes in Quran and it has no revision until now.While your holy book falls into all those categories!

 

Seriously? you believe the people in power are good? you think they are something special? Wow.

Sorry, but all have sinned, all have fallen short - it takes God to save us, and not some tribesman who claimed he was a prophet through demonic channeling.

 

The concept of praying for forgiveness has been there anywhere, including in judaism, even in christian as well! (the catholics known for praying for forgiveness through virgin mary,although I can't understand why do they need to ask for forgiveness?Didn't jesus cover them all? Hohoho, another contradiction!) So yeah, we need not sacrifice for forgiveness, nor the jews, and I am really curious here why only your religion left :P

No sacrifice for fogiveness? no death for sin? you have a very low opinoin on sin and an ignorance of the book of Leviticus, however it's plain to me that you believe your religion will save you. Sounds to me like you have a maniac god.

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Calling me lazy is a very presumptious and insultive statement, however I take the critisisim, yes I am lazy - in fact the Bible goes a step further and tells us that every man's best state is vainity (Psalm 39:5) However, I have written very plainly that good works are not a means to being saved, but a result of being saved, they come natually to me now.

Sure you can go about your life and try and do as much good as possible, but in the end you are wanting your god to give you praise - which you don't deserve.

 

 

There is only one God, but you don't seem to understand the triune nature of Him, your scripture is alien to the Jewish old Testament and it's representation of Jesus is one of self critisisim.

Please end your own folly and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

 

 

 

Seriously? you believe the people in power are good? you think they are something special? Wow.

Sorry, but all have sinned, all have fallen short - it takes God to save us, and not some tribesman who claimed he was a prophet through demonic channeling.

 

No sacrifice for fogiveness? no death for sin? you have a very low opinoin on sin and an ignorance of the book of Leviticus, however it's plain to me that you believe your religion will save you. Sounds to me like you have a maniac god.

 

Why did you quote Brother Absolute Truth when you knew the statements were mine? Have you gone frustated or something? :D

Your religion concept is weird. Why is there a religion which insists that doing bad is allowed and doing good is useless? I think this religion only fits for the lazy ones and the sinners that want justifications for every bad deeds they do. Poor guys. That is why every christian nation now being secular because good governance can't be gained with the concept of your religion. Who will let killers run freely without any punishments? But Sharia totally can be applied in REAL governance. See many Islamic countries? Yes, we have beaten you in this matter :D

No, both Islam and Judaism believe in one God without any personifications. Your god concept is alien to the Jewish and it's representation of Jesus is one of self critisisim.

Please end your own imagination and believe in Islam and you will be saved.

Seriously? you believe the people in power are not good? you think they are not something special? Wow.

So is it alright if a crazy person being your leader? Is it alright if that one make regulation that you are required to be naked in public place? I think it is not only your soul, your mind is not in a good state as well. That is the result of taking dogma without using your common sense.

Your opinion in sin really is absurd. God Almighty doesn't need drama to forgive all sins, just say "be" and it happens. FYI, I don't recognize Leviticus as my guidance. My guidance is Quran, which never been changed for 1400 years. I don't believe any man-made books which mixed the true and wrong things together. Nothing so holy if being revised every now and then by humans.

Ah, yeah, I am surprised you still managed to show up after lying in previous post. Without any explanation or apologizing. Is that a christian's mentality? Lying also keeping an endless debate without real proof? No wonder many christians left their religion and ended up embracing Islam. Because we never lied when preaching.

So, next time, instead of pointless arguments, show me something interesting like real proofs, facts, and scientific articles about christianity or I won't bother to respond. I am not playing with you forever. I have many things to take care of and anything useless is not included. Be smart a bit!

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