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You set a pretty low standard for the Bible if you compare it to a group of guys going to a football game. The standard is so low that I can pretty much bring up any contradiction and it won't bother you. 

 

Yes, obeying the Prophet (pbuh) is obeying Allah - just as with all the Prophets. Yes, the name of the Prophet (pbuh) must be said said in the shahada. You cannot believe in Allah while disbelieving in His Prophets (pbut). The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is our Prophet in whom we must believe. 

 

The Prophet (pbuh) got the information about Jesus' (pbuh) virgin birth from Allah, not from the book of Matthew or a Christian friend. 

 

No, you can't logically infer that Allah had misconceptions about the Trinity. 

 

The texts of Galen and Hippocrates don't match what is in the Qur'an. Some of what they said is false while nothing in the Qur'an is false. 

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Not everything in the Bible is false. Thus, if something in Matthew happens to be true, it is no surprise. Jesus', peace be upon him, biography was widely told at the time. The author of Matthew heard something which was true and then gave it his own spin. 

 

Simply stating that the Qur'anic information regarding embryology was taken from other sources won't suffice. You have to show proof. Thus, I won't retract anything.

 

However, let's say for the sake of argument that the information was in earlier sources. Those earlier sources also held incorrect ideas while the Qur'an does not. Thus, indicating that the Qur'an filters truth from falsehood. Back in history, nobody could really test embryological information. Thus, Galen's guess regarding things which he could not directly observe due to a lack of technology, i.e. microscopes, was as good as the next man's. If you read my text carefully, I did not say that there is absolutely no way that the scientific information in the Qur'an was not in previous works. 

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By the way, you have to look at all the scientific information. For example, you can't just go on and say, "Oh, embryology is from Galen". Don't get hung up on one thing, i.e. focusing only on embryology when there is plenty of other scientific information. Don't look at one piece of evidence in isolation. Instead, look at the evidence as a whole. There are many valid scientific ideas and none false. You have to look at all the information as a whole. You need to take a holistic approach. 

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I do address almost all of your points. If I address something briefly, it's because you have made a statement without evidence. Thus, I can make one also. If you write something short or without evidence, do you expect me to write give an ultra-thorough response?

 

By the way, don't think that I didn't notice the fact that you ignored the lost books mentioned in the Bible and how it impacts on God's ability to preserve His Word forever, or the fact you didn't address anything about the tikkun soferim and the problems between the Masoretic text vs. the Septuagint. It's actually you who does not address all my points, and if you do, you give too simple responses, but that's okay.

 

I have to admit that I don't address every single thing in your post. Why? Because most of it has got addressed before in this thread. I don't like repeating myself too much. As a matter of fact, I repeat myself quite a lot in this thread. Which points do you think I have not addressed?

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Does online stuff bother you because you don't like to read? 

 

Anyway, here is on the backbone and ribs:

 

"As shown in Figure 2, if we were to join the sulb (i.e. the back) and the taraayib (i.e. the ribs), by means of an external line, it would pass through our lower abdomen, to our hips, to the testes, to the sex organ on to our groin, and then join our ribs. The line would roughly look like the red curve ABCD. Obviously, the ultimate point of emanation of the male sperm lies within the points A and D. This, in my opinion, is what the statement "Yakhrujo min bayen al-Sulb Wa al-Taraayib" (i.e. 'which emanates from a place between the back and the ribs') means. The meaning and the implication of the verse, as well as the message entailed in it, was as clear to the unlettered Arabs as it is for the scientists of the modern day. If seen in the light of this explanation, it would be clear that the verse does not refer to any scientific reality, but to an obvious physical reality. Thus, the very objection of a scientific error, in this case, is misplaced."

 

 http://www.understanding-Islam.com/q-and-a/miscellaneous-issues/does-semen-emanate-from-between-the-ribs-and-the-back-al-taariq-86-6-7-4836

 

Look at Figure 2 for illustration.. 

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Allah does not forbid questions. If you think this is a short reply, don't be surprised. You give short replies without evidence, you get short replies. 

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O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which if  made plain to you, may cause you trouble.

Some people before you did ask such questions, and on   that account lost their faith." (Surah

5:101-102).

 

Pathetic.

 

(101. O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if you ask about them while the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you. Allah has forgiven that, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing.)

 

You didn't quote the whole verse .Nice academic deceit there. Did you get this information from an anti-Islamic site or did you purposely leave that one part out? If it's the latter, please inform me so I can stop discussing with you. I don't like people who employ deceit. If it's the former, I suggest you be more careful.

 

Anyway, everything has a context:

 

Al-Bukhari recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "Some people used to question the Messenger of Allah to mock him. One of them would ask, `Who is my father,' while another would ask, `Where is my camel,' when he lost his camel. Allah sent down this Ayah about them,

﴿يأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لاَ تَسْأَلُواْ عَنْ أَشْيَآءَ إِن تُبْدَ لَكُمْ تَسُؤْكُمْ﴾

(O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble...).'' Imam Ahmad recorded that `Ali said, "When this Ayah was revealed,

﴿وَللَّهِ عَلَى النَّاسِ حِجُّ الْبَيْتِ مَنِ اسْتَطَـعَ إِلَيْهِ سَبِيلاً﴾

(And Hajj to the House is a duty that mankind owes to Allah, those who can bear the journey.)﴿3:97﴾, they asked, `O Allah's Messenger! Is it required every year' He did not answer them, and they asked again, `Is it every year' He still did not answer them, so they asked, `Is it every year' He said,

«لَا، وَلَوْ قُلْتُ: نَعَمْ لَوَجَبَتْ وَلَوْ وَجَبَتْ لَمَا اسْتَطَعْتُم»

(No, and had I said `yes', it would have become obligated, and had it become obligated, you would not be able to bear it.) Allah sent down,

﴿يأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لاَ تَسْأَلُواْ عَنْ أَشْيَآءَ إِن تُبْدَ لَكُمْ تَسُؤْكُمْ﴾

(O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.).'' At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah also recorded this Hadith. The apparent wording of this Ayah indicates that we are forbidden to ask about things that if one has knowledge of, he would be sorry he had asked. Consequently, it is better to avoid such questions.

 

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=731&Itemid=60

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Obviously the Qur'an has been revealed! That verse was for the audience at the time! The Qur'an was being revealed among the Arabs. It's not like anybody can ask the Prophet (pbuh) a question now!

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The fact of the matter is that the Prophet (pbuh) got asked many questions, which he answered. The Hadiths are proof of this. People are allowed to ask questions. The Companions of the Prophet got asked many questions by the successive generation in order to learn. Don't try to take things out of context. 

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The Jalalain explain this verse as follows:

The following was revealed when they began to ask the Prophet (s) too many questions: O you who believe, do not ask about things which, if disclosed to you,[if] revealed, would trouble you, because of the hardship that would ensue from them; yet if you ask about them while the Qur’ān is being revealed, during the time of the Prophet (s), they will be disclosed to you: meaning that if you ask about certain things during his lifetime, the Qur’ān will reveal them, but once these things are disclosed, it will grieve you. So do not ask about them; indeed: God has pardoned those things, you asked about, so do not ask again; for God is Forgiving, Forbearing.

 

Other Tafsir are similar. This verse dicouragages the asking of questions AFTER Mohammed has gone. Questions may lead to answers. Answers may not agree  with Islamic teachings,and may lead to apostacy. Modern Muslims are not encouraged to be inquisitative.

 

It is a characteristic of a cult that demands of its follower UNQUESTIONING obedience.

 

In fact, almost all Muslims are quite good at following this advice... Almost all of them are virtually completely ignorant about Islam and will make lots of efforts to stay that way.

 

I doubt that people merely asked Mohammed where their camel was and such things. I mean, is there any sane Muslims who would go to the Masjid today in order to ask the imam where he left his car keys? What we ask religious leaders today is much what Mohammed's contemporaries would have asked. Questions about life and death, and the meaning of life, about doctrince, or maybe some advice about difficult decisions.I refuse to accept that all of Mohammed's followers were really that stupid.... "where is my camel?"  ... honestly...

 

Some muddles in the Qur'an were discovered during Mohammed's lifetime, like the Miriam issue, and Mohammed was forced to make a rapid, lame excuse which does not stand up to scutiny. So it is not surprising that Mohammed was not hugely keen on questions. He prefered to preach and run... By now we know over 1000 factual and historical errors, or self contradictions.

 

And Allah resolved his own contradictions neatly with the doctgrine of abrogation... I wonder why nobody ever asked Mohammed why an all-knowing God would need to correct himself, and even have a rule for that.

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Abrogation is not Allah correcting His mistake. It is Him giving a different law.  

 

I said that the Prophet (pbuh) got asked many questions. The Qur'an and Hadiths are proof of this. He was asked questions about life and death, meaning of life, doctrine and advice regarding difficult decisions, and he answered them. The Companions (ra) got asked questions. Their students got asked questions and so on and so forth. 

 

Anyway, y'all take care. 

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Abrogation is not Allah correcting His mistake. It is Him giving a different law.

Ok... let's have a think about that...

so Allah CHANGES some laws. Some incredibly quickly, during Mohammed's lifetime. Why? were the old ones no good?

 

If Allah reveals a text for ALL MANKIND and ALL time, why would he need to make changes? Surely he would know the best possible law from the start?

 

Of is Allah changing laws according to specific situaltions?

 

Well, does not strike you as odd? In a book valid until the end of days? Muslims are kind of "stuck" with the last version of instructions provided in the Qur'an. Surah 9, is pretty much the last word. So this means that Muslims are required to be violent.

 

 

Then, if SOME laws got changed, why can we not revise/abrogate others? Things like premission to beat one's wife, to kill adulters (which is not even in the Qur'an), homosexuals or apostates, can they be abandoned?

 

If not, why would Allah make situational laws for Mohammed's times in Arabia, but all the rest of us who live later, are stuck with a legal system that looks decidedly antiquated, so much so that many Muslims counries, such as Turkey tried to to get rid of most of it?

 

I tend to think that law making is best left to politicians, to be honest. That way, as society changes, the law can be adapted and improved. I have some trouble in accepting that the almighty creator of all the universes would have any interest in which way I face when going to the toilet, for example.

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So many of the topics debated here are much older than either faith. The virgin birth, god's dyeing and rising. 

 

Pagan Sources for the Virgin Birth

If the virgin birth was not prophesied in the Old Testament and has no claims at all for being historical, where did the idea come from? And how did it become embedded into the Christian tradition? The answer immediately suggests itself when we turn our attention to the Gentile world where Christianity took root and flourished.

The gentile cultures, religions and mythologies during the time of Christian beginnings around the first century CE were filled with stories of divine incarnation. For example in the Greek myth, Perseus was born of the virgin Danae. Danae was conceived by the God Zeus who took the form of a shower of gold. [6] In another Greek myth Dionysius was born of the virgin Semele. Semele was impregnated by Zeus with a bolt of lightning.

And in almost all the popular mystery religions [a] around the Meditteranean, the beliefs of the uneducated masses, the divine personalities are born of virgins. For example, Horus, a major god of the Egyptian mystery religion, was born of the virgin Isis (like Jesus in Luke, Horus was also born in a stable). And Mithra, an derivative of the Persian sun-worship, whose cult rivalled Christianity during the first few centuries of its existence, was conceived when God himself, in the form of light, entered a virgin. Phoenecian mythology had Adonis being born of the virgin Myrrh. [7]

The popular culture also ascribed to many famous men miraculous, divine and, sometimes, even virgin birth. [8] Thus the emperor Augustus, the reigning sovereign during the time of Jesus, was reputedly miraculously begotten when a snake descended upon his mother in the temple of Apollo. [9] So too, Romulus, the legendary founder of Rome, was born of a vestal virgin. [10]

It was therefore to be expected, in fact inevitable, that Christianity, which vied for converts with these mystery religions, would itself be imbued with such mythological elements. It could happen in many ways. The Christians, desiring to provide conclusive vindication of their faith in the divine nature of Jesus, would naturally turn to the signs that were accepted in the culture as proofs of divinity. [11] New converts from the mystery religions would also naturally carry the mythological baggage from their previous beliefs.

 

source http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/virgin.html

 

Just thought I would through something different in here disregard it if you think it derails the thread. 

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To the other two,

 

your problem is that you are speaking to a primarily non-English speaking crowd so your questions are seeming like they have been resolved when they have not.

 

What you have to realize is for starters God has historically changed things according to the need of the people at the time in all three religions.  Next, and this is the part where I can really relate to the Qur'an and wish I understood Arabic more, what we need to remember is that the Qur'an is given in the form of poetry.  Now in a poetic form if someone were to say that beating one's wife is bad it would not come out as beautiful.  A true poet rather would recommend beating her really well and doing it in a way that leaves no bruises with an object so ridiculous that men realize this is absurd and that the poet is saying don't beat your wife. 

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It really is amazing that people who claim they studied Islam make such bad conclusions about the prophet. Do you even know what he was refering to about not asking too many questions?? Firstly if you know the hadiths well you know that people asked the prophet many many many questions and he helped to answer them. 

 

But people also asked stupid questions to test the prophet like who is the father of so and so and who is the grandfather of so and so. Basically questions that were not necessary. And also I think its a really ignorant thing for people to quote half quotes from a hadith or a line - specifically member Redeemed you quoted half lines and then you didn't even quote that they were from Bukhari just said volume 1 etc. if you have the hadith quote the whole thing. Because the whole one can reveal a lot more. So I would just like to provide those hadiths in full so that people don't see 1 line from them 

 

Narrated Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba: The Prophet said, "Allah has forbidden for you, (1) to be undutiful to your mothers, (2) to bury your daughters alive, (3) to not to pay the rights of the others (e.g. charity, etc.) and (4) to beg of men (begging). And Allah has hated for you (1) vain, useless talk, or that you talk too much about others, (2) to ask too many questions, (in disputed religious matters) and (3) to waste the wealth (by extravagance). (Bukhari Book 41 Number 591)

 

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari: Allah's Apostle was asked about things which he disliked, and when the people asked too many questions, he became angry and said, "Ask me (any question)." A man got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is my father?" The Prophet replied, "Your father is Hudhaifa." Then another man got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is my father?" The Prophet said, "Your father is Salim, Maula Shaiba." When 'Umar saw the signs of anger on the face of Allah's Apostle, he said, "We repent to Allah."  (Bukhari Book 92, Hadith 394)

 

As Muslims we understand why the prophet pbuh got angry at questions like this because they were not important questions about life, about our purpose here. Imagine you have a prophet of Allah in front of you and these are the type of questions you want to ask! The prophet didn't discourage people seeking knowledge but he preferred that they seeked knowledge in things that would benefit them not things that wouldn't benefit them.

 

And the questioning thing is also related to rules laid down by Allah. If one has faith in Allah and believes in Him then one should trust in his rulings, they should not question it too much. Again this does not mean one is prevented from seeking knowledge. Allah forbade alcohol and pork. Today there have been many scientific  studies that show both are unhealthy for the body and alcohol also causes social problems in society and family. Yet some people still question it. This is just one example. 

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To the other two,

 

your problem is that you are speaking to a primarily non-English speaking crowd so your questions are seeming like they have been resolved when they have not.

 

What you have to realize is for starters God has historically changed things according to the need of the people at the time in all three religions.  Next, and this is the part where I can really relate to the Qur'an and wish I understood Arabic more, what we need to remember is that the Qur'an is given in the form of poetry.  Now in a poetic form if someone were to say that beating one's wife is bad it would not come out as beautiful.  A true poet rather would recommend beating her really well and doing it in a way that leaves no bruises with an object so ridiculous that men realize this is absurd and that the poet is saying don't beat your wife. 

 

As-salamu 'alaikum

 

Here is information on the "wife beating"-issue: http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-about-Islam/society-and-family/status-of-women/166386-does-quran-allow-muslims-to-beat-women.html

 

The Qur'an is not poetry:

 

And We have not taught him (Muhammad) poetry, nor is it meet for him. This is naught else than a Reminder and a Lecture making plain,

 

To warn whosoever liveth, and that the word may be fulfilled against the disbelievers. (36:69-70) 

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walaiykuma salaam akh,

 

thank you, this is why I said what I said before about wishing I still had my translation of the Qur'an and had not gotten rid of it when I had left Islam.  This way I could have Qur'an study every morning and night.  Reading and rereading the translation. I know I still have much to learn.  Right now I am doing what I can.  I hope to study Arabic full time when I am done with school which will be this time next year insha'Allah

Edited by abdullahfath

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This guy debunks what you claim about Jesus not being born of a virgin http://youtu.be/CqQCXCfU2Gk and also

 BTW, what you say comes against Islam and Christianity because they share that in common. Jesus was born of a virgin miraculously!

I'm not saying Jesus was not born of a virgin. What I'm saying is the story is much older than Jesus. That is all. It's not a new story. It has been told and retold long before Christianity was a glimmer of existence. I will have to get around to watching the video in a bit. Personally I'm not familiar with Egypt ancient God's as they are not part of my heritage. 

Edited by The Shrew

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That is interesting that you would say you are not against Jesus being virgin born. I am more interested in your comments after you see the video

Well it was interesting seeing as it all pertained to ancient Egyptian gods. The things they brought up about Christianity is nothing I have not heard before, been taught, or studied for my self. But just because the Bible says so does not make it true either. Below is a link with a bunch of different stories and ideas of pagan births and various other quotes. 

 

http://www.pocm.info/pagan_ideas_virgin_birth.html

Edited by The Shrew

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1.  Yes they have and this is admitted on both the Catholic website and via the history channel not to mention several Christian scholars.  The Old Testament was corrupted through what they refer to as a kind of culling.  Assuming that the original writings were correct no one actually knows what occurred in the various council meetings after the church was taken over by the former pagan emperor.  This is of course assuming that the writings were not corrupted before hand and you believe that Paul was not a false prophet.

2.  a. Muhammad was illiterate

     b.  There is little evidence that Muhammad had any significant contact with Christians, & if he was borrowing from scripture why would he himself be scared upon returning from the mountain.

    c.  While some might argue this is a possibility the problem is that in the time frame that this would have had to take place it was already memorized by vastly more than there is today and many of these were in a position that they could have had a direct effect should someone try to corrupt it.  There were too many that knew it.

 

Many of the original Christians dropped off after Christianity became the official religion of Rome, why?  American politicians have corrupted the original constitution and very few have noticed why would it be so implausible for the Bible.  I will post links later unless someone wants to for me

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In the Quran & Hadith, the term People of the Book (أهل الكتاب‎ ′Ahl al-Kitāb) is used to refer to followers of monotheistic faiths "which pre-date the advent of Islam." In particular, it refers to the Christian & Jewish faiths. The question is are People of the Book believers? If they are, then Islam is not necessary to avoid eternal torment in hell. Moreover, when the Quran refers to the People of the Book there it gives no indication the Book is corrupted. It is a good Book when referring to the People of the Book. Do you see where I am going with this?

 

Now, if the People of the Book are disbelievers, then I don't see the logic in the Quran; for instance, why did Allah allow for so many people (Billions of people) for so many yeas to be led astray by books they themselves did not corrupt? Moreover, being that Allah is an omniscient being who knows the hearts of men, why would he give people a test he knows they would fail? And what is worse, why would he send them to hell or eternal torment?

 

Please post the evidence to Biblical corruption again. Because this is what you need to convince me of. From what I can tell there are three possibilities:

  1. The original Judeo-Christian scriptures have been corrupted (as you claim).
  2. Muhammad imperfectly borrowed from the Judeo-Christian scriptures.
  3. The Qur'an has been corrupted

Just like you are not willing to believe the Quran is corrupted, I am not so willing to believe the Bible is corrupted as you would like me to believe. Post the proof again. Again that verse you quoted doesn't prove the Bible is corrupted. It is not even proof it is referring to the Bible. Show the proof please.

Tell me when the Bible got corrupted and how they traffic it for a prize and how the corruption of the Bible made those who corrupted it money. Tell how they could've have gotten away with so much corruption and no one noticed it? It is laughable.

 

People of the book refers to the people that the word of god had been given; Jews and Christians.

 

Disbelievers are those who do not believe in Islam after it was revealed by Muhammad (saws).

 

There is a Surah in the Quran call Surah Al Fatiha (The opening chapter):

 

 

1. In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

2. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,

3. The Beneficent, the Merciful.

4. Owner of the Day of Judgment,

5. Thee (alone) we worship; Thee alone we ask for help.

6. Show us the straight path,

7. The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not (the path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who went

astray.

 

The ones who have earned Allah's wrath are the Jews. Book of Jeremiah:

 

 

 

‘I will pronounce my judgment on these people (the Jews) because of their wickedness in forsaking me…

I brought you into a fertile land, but you came and defiled my land and made my inheritance detestable…

The priests did not ask ‘Where is the Lord?’ …

Those who deal with the law did not know me and the leaders rebelled against me…

Therefore I bring charges against you, your children and against your children’s children…

These people have forsaken me, the spring of living water…

Your wickedness will punish you and your backsliding will rebuke you…

Long ago you broke off your yoke and said ‘I will not serve you!’ Indeed on every high hill, you lay down as a prostitute…

Why did you turn against me and become a corrupt, wild vine?

Although you wash yourself with an abundance of soap the stain of your guilt is still before me…

As a thief is disgraced only when caught, so too is the house of israel disgraced…they, their kings and officials, priests and prophets have turned their backs to me and not their faces…

You have all rebelled against me…

In vain did I punish these people and yet they did not respond to correction…

Your sword has devoured your prophets like a ravening lion…

These people have forgotten me…Even the worst of women can learn from your ways…

On your clothes men find the lifeblood of the innocent poor, and yet in spite of all this you dare to say ‘I am innocent!’

But I will pass judgment upon you, O israel…You have lived as a prostitute with many lovers. Look up to the barren heights and see, is there any place where you haven’t been ravaged? By the roadside you sat, waiting for lovers. You have defiled the land with your prostitution and wickedness. You have the brazen look of a prostitute and refuse to blush with shame…

These people are fools…They do not know me. They are senseless children and have no understanding. They are skilled in evil and know not how to do good…

Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem…Look around and search her squares…If you can find but one person who deals honestly and seeks the truth I will forgive this city…

Therefore a lion from the forest will attack them…a wolf from the desert will ravage them…a leopard will lie in wait near their towns to tear to pieces any who venture out, for their rebellion is great and their backslidings many…

Why should I forgive you? Your children have forsaken me. I supplied all their needs and yet they committed adultery and thronged the houses of prostitutes…Should I not punish them for this? Should I not avenge myself upon a nation such as this?

‘O house of israel’ declares the Lord,

‘I am bringing a distant nation against you,

An ancient and enduring nation,

A people whose language you do not know and whose speech you do not understand…

They will devour your harvests, sons and daughters, your flocks and herds…

With the sword they will utterly destroy the fortified cities in which you trust…

Hear this, you foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see and ears but do not hear…

Should you not fear me? Should you not tremble in my presence?

Among these people (the Jews) are wicked men who lie in wait like men who snare birds…Their house are full of deceit, they have become rich and powerful and have grown fat and sleek and their evil deeds have no limit…

They defend neither the orphans nor the poor…

Should I not punish them for this? Should I not avenge myself upon a nation such as this?

A horrible thing has happened in this land of israel…

The prophets tell lies and the priests rule by their own authority and my people love it this way…

Therefore this is what the Lord says of Jerusalem–‘This city must be punished, for it is filled with oppression…

As a well pours out its water so Jerusalem pours out her wickedness…Violence and destruction resound in her and her sickness is forever before me…

Take warning, O Jerusalem, or I will make your land desolate so no one can live in it…

And yet, their ears remain closed and the word of the Lord is offensive to them. They find no pleasure in it…

From the least to the greatest, all are greedy for gain, prophet and priest alike, all practice deceit…

The leaders dress the wound of these people as though it were not serious, and yet, are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all…They do not even know how to blush…

Therefore they will fall among the fallen and will be brought down when I punish them…

I will bring an end to the sounds of joy in the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, for the land will become desolate…

Why does Jerusalem always turn away? They cling to deceit and no one repents of his wickedness, saying ‘what have I done?’

Each pursues his own course like a horse charging into battle…How can you say ‘We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord?’ when the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

Therefore I will give their wives to other men and their fields to new owners…

No one speaks the truth…They have taught their tongues to lie and they weary themselves with doing evil…

It is because they have forsaken me and instead followed the stubbornness of their hearts that I will make them eat bitter food and drink poisoned water. I will scatter them among nations that neither they nor their fathers have known and I will pursue them with the sword until I have destroyed them…

There is a conspiracy among the people of Jerusalem…

They have returned to the evil ways of their forefathers who refused to listen to me…

Therefore I will bring upon them a disaster they cannot escape and although they cry out to me, I will not listen to them…

Do not pray for these people nor plead for them, because I will not listen in the time of distress…Do not pray for the well-being of these people, for I will not listen to their cry…

Instead, I will destroy them with the sword, famine and plague…

The prophets of israel tell lies in my name…

I have not sent them or spoken to them…

They are prophesying to you false visions and the delusions of their own mind, saying ‘No sword or famine will touch israel.’

But those prophets will perish by sword and famine and those who listen to them will be thrown into the streets of Jerusalem…

There will be no one to bury them or their wives, their sons or daughters…

I will pour out upon them the calamity they deserve…

Who will have pity on you, O Jerusalem?

Who will mourn for you?

You have rejected me, so I will lay hands on you and destroy you…

I can no longer show you compassion…

I will bring bereavement and destruction on these people for they have not changed their ways…

Your wealth and your treasures I will give away as plunder, because of all the sins of your country…

For my anger will kindle a fire that will burn against you, for I, the sovereign Lord am against you, Jerusalem, and will punish you as your deeds deserve and will kindle a fire in your forests that will consume everything around you…

Through your own fault you will lose the inheritance I gave you, for you have kindled my anger and it will burn FOREVER…

 

Those who went astray are the Christians because they say god is a trinity and that he has taken a son. Exodus:

 

 

Thou

shalt have no other gods before me. {20:4} Thou shalt not

make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any

thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth

beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: {20:5}

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:

for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the

iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and

fourth [generation] of them that hate me; {20:6} And

shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and

keep my commandments.

 

Quran - An Nisaa:

 

 

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses(675) in

your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth.

Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a

messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed

on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe

in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" :

desist:(676) it will be better for you: for Allah is one

Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above

having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens

and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of

affairs.

 

"1Moreover, being that Allah is an omniscient being who knows the hearts of men, why would he give people a test he knows they would fail? 2And what is worse, why would he send them to hell or eternal torment?"

 

1Allah gave them his book which they have perverted and Allah does not fix that which man has corrupted. The people of the book have indeed wronged themselves. God is a jealous god (Exodus) he doesn't like to to have rivals much less a son to whom those of the cross attribute to him; they've been led astray for generations for their lies. You see the contradictions? If god does want his servants to praise inanimate objects why would Jesus (as) be acceptable?

 

 

 

“Allah does not burden a soul beyond that it can bear…” (Qur’an 2:286)

 

2Hell is not eternal. Hell is eternal for the elite in evil. Those who associate partners unto Allah; those who have created graven images and have not sough forgiveness before their death, and those with pride in their hearts and whom so ever Allah wills will be in hellfire forever. As long as you have an atoms weight of faith hell is not permanent thanks to the grace and mercy of Allah.

Edited by A-H

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 1Allah gave them his book

which they have perverted and Allah does not fix that which man has

corrupted. The people of the book have indeed wronged themselves. God is

a jealous god (Exodus) he doesn't like to to have rivals much less a

son to whom those of the cross attribute to him; they've been led astray

for generations for their lies. You see the contradictions? If god does

want his servants to praise inanimate objects why would Jesus (as) be

acceptable?

 

It was a late night and what I should have said was " If god doesn't want his servants to praise inanimate objects why would Jesus (as) be

acceptable?"

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It seems that what you believe is based primarily in believing in the teachings of Paul which are contrary even to what Jesus said, in the Bible alone.  Next, if there were no Jews that believed Jesus to be born of a virgin there would not have been Christians to begin with.  All the original disciples were Jewish. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ypbnDK7r10 

 

There are numerous problems with Paul, himself.  I will let someone else cover the rest as I am pressed for time.  And I think you misunderstand some of the teachings of the Qur'an, especially as it pertains to the trinity. 

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