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here is a simple question

Trinity%20Sunday%201.jpg'

 

how many Godly entities do you see here?

 

1 or 3?

 

if you say 1, then you need eye surgery definitly

 

if you say 3, then how can you say that you believe in 1 God, when you say 3?

 

 

let see what God says in the quran about your trinity:

 

People of the Book(christians), do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers and do not speak of a 'Trinity'—stop, that is better for you—God is only one God, He is far above having a son, everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him and He is the best one to trust.
— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayat 171[2]
Edited by andalusi

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Salaam alaiykum brothers & sisters,

 

first of all for the so called believer without religion here (who is actually Christian)  I was a far right Christian, militant even and grew up memorizing the Bible from the age of 5 yrs old and it was through reading the words of Jesus (what Southern Baptist call the words in red) that I began to really understand what the Bible was saying and there are more and more Christians that follow this idea that Jesus was not the literal son of God

 

To my brothers & sisters in Islam you are wasting your breath on this guy.  While he likes to claim he is a believer without religion he is not.  By his own words alone he is a Christian, nothing more, nothing less

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why do you rape your own mind with this??? why do you complicate and confuse other and yourself with this complicating belief system

 

1 Corinthians 14:33

King James Version (KJV)

 

33 For God is not the author of confusion,

 

so why do you try to be this author??????????????

 

when i read what you post above i realize how great and simple Islam is, if Islam was In two dimensions, a rectangle (not just the boundary, but filled in) and a circle or disk are two very different shapes. And if we were to live in just two dimensions and that is all we know and then a rectangle and a disc come along and claim to be one and the same "object" and you should believe in the doctrine of Duality, you as most others of those two dimensional beings would just laugh at them and declare them to be crazy.

 

no one would follow Islam, i would be the first to run away from it.

 

 

 

 

it means that if you believe that someone else is GOd or equal to God you will go to Hell in the hereafter if you dont repent before death.

Jesus never claimed i am God, jesus himself prayed to God, is is logical that God pray to another God???

 

 

 

no he did not have apostocil aproval, you cant justify when jesus say You shall not abolish the law of MOses, and paul abolished them.

 

 

 

 

of course

 

Jesus forbid abolishing the Mosaic laws :

(Matt. 5:17-19), "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill."

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

It was Paul who abolished the Mosaic Law?

Read Acts 13:39And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from

which ye could not be justified by the Law of Moses.

 

Paul abolished them and created new relgion christianity:

 

(Eph. 2:14-15), "For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace."

 

the eating of pork became acceptable though Jesus never ate

pork, circumcision was abolished by Paul (Galatians 5:2)

Behold, I, Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ

shall profit you nothing.”

Yet circumcision is a covenant between God and Prophet Abraham and his descendants.

Abraham and his son and men folk of his household were

ordered to circumcise by God. Because Christianity had deviated

a long way from the original teachings of Jesus (pbuh), Allah

then sent as part of His original plan, His final messenger,

Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) as a revivalist to restore the original

teachings.

 

so how can you believe and follow this man Paul who had no same teaching as jesus, it was Paul who created christianity not Jesus.

 

watch this short film about how judaism and christianity was created

 

The Religion of Jesus and Moses is Islam - Ahmad Deedat

 

 

 

wrong, God informed uis in quran that revelations come only to prophets, and how do you know they are prophets, such people preform extraordinary miracles as evidence for their prophethood, moses splitting the sea, jesus giving life to dead, muhammed splitting the moon in two and join it back again.

 

 

 

yes you do. God father and God the son. 2 gods.

 

Can God become man?

 

 

 

of course he denied, it is just you dont study your bible properlly

 

let have a look here

 

Jesus said: Luke 18:19

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

 

so Jesus said only God is good, not jesus.

 

 

 

beacuse it is unchanged book of God on the face of the earth, it has no errors nor contradictions, it contain guidence for this life, and inform you about life after death.

It contains miracles wich proofs that quran is from God and not humans.

 

1. Scientific miracles wich no man could know during those days, like Big bang, expansion of universe, black holes, pulsars, nebulas and many many other stuff wich need modern techonology to detect these

2. Future stuff in quran wich come true

3. Mathematical programming of the quran wich is impossible to be created by humans

 

 

 

no it does not contradict the teachings of apostoles nor jesus, but it contradict Paul and other liars.

 

I hardly see giving an analogy, so that you might understand what Im saying, as mind rape and over complication. Actually that seems liable to over simplification.

 

I am not offering you confusion. That was an easily understandable analogy. Hardly the mind rape you claim it to be.

 

I care not for simplicity in religion. After all paganism is a very simple religion. The only thing that matters is truth and from what you have shown me Islam is not that truth.

 

Thanks for clarifying what that quran quote meant. Jesus did claim divinity. As I said earlier:

 

New International Version

"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

 

I posted this link earlier when you brought up the same claims on Jesus praying to God. Please read it in its entirety. Then try to refute its points. If you can't, then stop repeating those claims.

 

http:///religious-movements/Islam/questions-muslim-about-jesus-being-god

 

First off you quoted Jesus. Notice how he said he had not come to abolish but to fulfill. Fulfill means to complete or finish. And so he did.

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=5975

 

This website excellently covers his fulfillment of the Law. Please read it.

I will address your main points.

 

First on the dietary requirements. I will let Jesus himself address that.

 

Mark 7:18 He said to them, “Are even you likewise without understanding? Do you not realize that everything that goes into a person from outside cannot defile,

Mark 7:19 f since it enters not the heart but the stomach and passes out into the latrine?”

 

Jesus clearly says that all foods are clean.

 

Circumcision was the mark of the Old Covenant. To show ones entry into the Covenant you had to be circumcised. However in the New Covenant Jesus brought, baptism is now the mark of the New Covenant.

 

That is how Islam views revelation. I can't speak for all Christians but from what I know, any Christian can receive revelation. Now we must always be wary and test these revelations relentlessly or else Satan can fool us.

 

Anyway as I said earlier, it wouldn't matter. As Revelations can be allegorical it still is the recorded writings of John on Jesus being divine.

 

Lets not forget the Holy Spirit. And as the earlier analogy explained, not separate gods but different persons of the same God.

 

All of the things you say on the Quran may or may not be true. However the Quran is still wrong because it says Jesus is only a man.

 

Lets look at Muhammad's teachings and then compare them to the passed down teachings of the apostles.

 

Muhammad said: "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say Of Allah ought but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, And His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and the Spirit proceeding From Him: so believe In Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God: Glory to Him: (Far Exalted is He) above Having a son. To Him (Allah) Belong all things in the heavens And on earth. And enough Is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

 

Now the passed down teachings of the apostles:

 

Ignatius of Antioch

"Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God" (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

 

"For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit" (ibid., 18:2).

 

"[T]o the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is" (Letter to the Romans 1 [A.D. 110]).

 

 

 

Aristides

"[Christians] are they who, above every people of the earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the Creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit" (Apology 16 [A.D. 140]).

 

 

 

Tatian the Syrian

"We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man" (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).

 

 

 

Melito of Sardis

"It is no way necessary in dealing with persons of intelligence to adduce the actions of Christ after his baptism as proof that his soul and his body, his human nature, were like ours, real and not phantasmal. The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the deity hidden in his flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity, by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism, of his humanity, in the thirty years which came before his baptism, during which, by reason of his condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of his deity, although he was the true God existing before the ages" (Fragment in Anastasius of Sinai’s The Guide 13 [A.D. 177]).

 

 

 

Irenaeus

"For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them; and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who announced through the prophets the dispensations and the comings, and the birth from a Virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus our Lord, and his coming from heaven in the glory of the Father to reestablish all things; and the raising up again of all flesh of all humanity, in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth . . . " (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).

 

"Nevertheless, what cannot be said of anyone else who ever lived, that he is himself in his own right God and Lord . . . may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth" (ibid., 3:19:1).

 

 

 

Clement of Alexandria

"The Word, then, the Christ, is the cause both of our ancient beginning—for he was in God—and of our well-being. And now this same Word has appeared as man. He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things" (Exhortation to the Greeks 1:7:1 [A.D. 190]).

 

"Despised as to appearance but in reality adored, [Jesus is] the expiator, the Savior, the soother, the divine Word, he that is quite evidently true God, he that is put on a level with the Lord of the universe because he was his Son" (ibid., 10:110:1).

 

They seem to disagree.

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what is the purpose of changing stick into the snake in front of Pharao by Moses???

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8onv4g50HJU

 

 

beacuse those people who denied quran could actually nothing about quran, nor do they know anything about its miracles. so when you dont know it you deny it. just like you dont know anything about quran, that is why you deny it.

 

 

why do you christians then depict GOd father as old man with long white beard, and next to HIm another God also in the form of a dove?

 

WHY DO YOU LIE HERE TO US ON THIS FORUM, WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO FOOL MAN???

 

Trinity%20Sunday%201.jpg

 

fATHER gOD, son God, and Holy spirit also God = 3 gods, but you say, no it is only 1 God. and you see 3 different entities. come on man, dont joke with me here, i am not stupid. :glare:

 

 

 

wrong, your bible and jesus deny you

 

John 14:28

...the Father is greater than I.

 

 

wrong again and again

 

you have missunderstood bible completly, the funny thing with you christians is that you just pick part of the verse and forget the context.

 

let see what is the context of that saying of jesus

 

 

 

7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." (John 14:7)

 

Here Jesus (pbuh) is saying that if you know me, you know God i.e. if you follow me, you are indirectly following Almighty God. Seeing God here means knowing God as we can see from the verse.

 

8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." (John 14:8)

 

Here Philip is asking Jesus (pbuh) to show him God. The Bible says

 

“No one has ever seen God” (John 1:18)

 

“But," he (God) said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live." (Exodus 33:20)

 

Note : The word “God” in bracket is mine.

 

Being a Jew, he knew that no man can see God and live, making such an absurd request to Jesus (pbuh) of showing the father. So Jesus (pbuh) replies

 

9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? (John 14:9)

 

Jesus (pbuh) is saying to Phillips that he had been with him for so long and still making such an silly request of showing God, so Jesus says that “Anyone who has seen me has seen the father” meaning if you know me, you know Almighty God as well. You follow my teachings; you are following the teachings of Almighty God.

 

In context, we come to know that anyone who knows Jesus (pbuh) i.e. anyone who follows Jesus (pbuh) is indirectly following Almighty God to which we have no objection.

On the image. That is merely an artistic rendering of the three persons of the Trinity. Their is no way to accurately depict the Trinity through art that i am aware of. It can only be described.

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Jesus clearly says that all foods are clean. 

 

this cant be true, this is your christian distortion, do you know why that is true?

 

beacuse jesus himself did not eat pork. why did he not eat it, beacuse it is unclean according to God in OT. and science also confirms that pork is unclean, so 

 

God forbids pork in bible and quran, jesus and muhammed never ate pork. and science also say pork is unclean. that is why you are wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Circumcision was the mark of the Old Covenant. To show ones entry into the Covenant you had to be circumcised. 

 

you christian are totally lost people, that is why yo ucant find right path.

 

Your bible commands you to be circumsied, jesus was cirucmsied. even we muslims and jews do that, and science also confirms that it is good for our health to do circumcision.

 

 

 

 

Lets not forget the Holy Spirit. And as the earlier analogy explained, not separate gods but different persons of the same God. 

 

you dont even who holy ghost is, why beacuse you dont have real revelations from God, that is why you depict holy ghost as dove, something mystical.

 

according to God in quran holy ghost is angel Gabriel, you can even get that from bible

 

look for yourself

 

 

Proof from bible that angel Gabriel is the Holy spirit

 

Proof from Bible

<< Matthew 1:18 >>

This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.

 

combine with this

 

<< Luke 1:26-27 >>

In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary.

 

Proof from Quran that angel gabriel is the holy spirit

 

God says in quran:

16:102 Say that the Holy Spirit has brought the Revelation with the Truth step by step from your Lord, to strengthen the believers and as guidance and good news to the muslims.

 

combine with this

 

God says in quran:

2:97 Say [Prophet], ‘If anyone is an enemy of Gabriel- who by God’s leave brought down the Quran to your heart confirming previous scriptures as a guide and good news for the faithful-

 

conslusion is Holy spirit is angel Gabriel

 

mistery solved

 

 

 

 

 

All of the things you say on the Quran may or may not be true. However the Quran is still wrong because it says Jesus is only a man. 

 

but your bible says that

 

1 Timothy 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

 

 

 

 

On the image. That is merely an artistic rendering of the three persons of the Trinity. Their is no way to accurately depict the Trinity through art that i am aware of. It can only be described. 

 

they depicted holy ghost at least and jesus, beacuse according to some verses in bible holy ghost was a dove.

Edited by andalusi

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this cant be true, this is your christian distortion, do you know why that is true?

 

beacuse jesus himself did not eat pork. why did he not eat it, beacuse it is unclean according to God in OT. and science also confirms that pork is unclean, so

 

God forbids pork in bible and quran, jesus and muhammed never ate pork. and science also say pork is unclean. that is why you are wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

you christian are totally lost people, that is why yo ucant find right path.

 

Your bible commands you to be circumsied, jesus was cirucmsied. even we muslims and jews do that, and science also confirms that it is good for our health to do circumcision.

 

 

 

 

you dont even who holy ghost is, why beacuse you dont have real revelations from God, that is why you depict holy ghost as dove, something mystical.

 

according to God in quran holy ghost is angel Gabriel, you can even get that from bible

 

look for yourself

 

 

Proof from bible that angel Gabriel is the Holy spirit

 

Proof from Bible

<< Matthew 1:18 >>

This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.

 

combine with this

 

<< Luke 1:26-27 >>

In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary.

 

Proof from Quran that angel gabriel is the holy spirit

 

God says in quran:

16:102 Say that the Holy Spirit has brought the Revelation with the Truth step by step from your Lord, to strengthen the believers and as guidance and good news to the muslims.

 

combine with this

 

God says in quran:

2:97 Say [Prophet], ‘If anyone is an enemy of Gabriel- who by God’s leave brought down the Quran to your heart confirming previous scriptures as a guide and good news for the faithful-

 

conslusion is Holy spirit is angel Gabriel

 

 

mistery solved

 

 

 

 

 

but your bible says that

 

1 Timothy 2:5

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

 

 

they depicted holy ghost at least and jesus, beacuse according to some verses in bible holy ghost was a dove.

 

Well Andalusi what else could it mean? He is saying what goes into us doesn't make us unclean but rather what comes out of us or what we do. Thus since what we eat doesn't make us unclean then everything is clean. I see only Muslim distortion.

 

It is indeed healthy. I myself am also circumcised. However it is unnecessary for my salvation and is done purely for health reason. Circumcision has been brought to fulfillment by baptism.

 

Jesus speaks against you on the Holy Spirit.

 

Matthew 12:31-32

New International Version (NIV)

31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

 

How can one blaspheme an angel? Also I thought you said earlier that the Holy Spirit was Muhammed. Which is it?

 

The key word in my original sentence was only. As I said the Quran is incorrect because it says Jesus was only a man. Yet he was and is divine.

 

On the image. I know the Holy spirit is represented by a dove. You were trying to use the image to say Christians are pagan. My point was that it is impossible to accurately represent the trinity. It can only be accurately described.

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 Pork doesn't look healthy to me

:) Sorry. I wasn't clear enough there. I was referring to circumcision.

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Mr Dot,

 

Can you please close this thread I think the points have been made and quite frankly my patience is running very thin with andalusi. He continues to disrespect the bible and Christians with it.

 

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It’s a 27 page thread the points have been made already. Now it’s just becoming plain tautology. I’m surprised you’re not moved by the way andalusi talks about the bible. Do you see me blaspheming the Quran?

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I say if we are going to ask dot to end this we all have to agree to. That means Andalusi gets a say.

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Ok – I can only hope Andalusi has gotten sick of asking the same questions like is Jesus God? Does God shave? 1+1+1=3? Blah blah blah yeh we heard him.

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Well Andalusi what else could it mean? He is saying what goes into us doesn't make us unclean but rather what comes out of us or what we do. Thus since what we eat doesn't make us unclean then everything is clean. I see only Muslim distortion. 

 

if you drink alcohol and you get drunk and kill a person without any reason, did alcohol make you unclean ? YES, yes, yes, and yes.

 

that is why bible is distorted book, if that is true that jesus said that, why did he not ate pork then?????? why did he not get drunk also?????

 

 

 

 

Matthew 12:31-32

New International Version (NIV)

31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

 

How can one blaspheme an angel? Also I thought you said earlier that the Holy Spirit was Muhammed. Which is it?

 

of course you can, ancient jews were punished by God via angel gabriel, that is why they hated angel Gabriel.

 

that is why God said this

 

God says in quran:

2:97-98 Say [Prophet], ‘If anyone is an enemy of Gabriel- who by God’s leave brought down the Quran to your heart confirming previous scriptures as a guide and good news for the faithful-

if anyone is an enemy of God, His angels and His messengers, of Gabriel and Michael, then God is certainly the enemy of such disbelievers.’

 

 

 

As I said the Quran is incorrect because it says Jesus was only a man. Yet he was and is divine.

 

i have never seen in bible where jesus claim his divinity. only from you christians.

 

 

 

 

On the image. I know the Holy spirit is represented by a dove. You were trying to use the image to say Christians are pagan. My point was that it is impossible to accurately represent the trinity. It can only be accurately described. 

 

 

why do you go against your holy book, you dont follow even simple stuff from your bible

 

God commands you:

 

Exodus 20:4 

You are not to make an image or picture of anything in heaven or on the earth or in the waters under the earth:

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  You cannot add them either. God is one not three gods.

 

that is true, but you christians split Him in 3 gods.

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:) Sorry. I wasn't clear enough there. I was referring to circumcision.

 

when you learn science, you will know why God commanded you that in bible, but you dont care what God commands you in bible

 

Do the Health Benefits of Neonatal Circumcision Outweigh the Risks?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324798904578531063301112102.html

 

 

God commands you circumsion:

 

Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenantbetween me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised,including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring.13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

 

 

but your christianity founder Paul commands you other wise

 

1 Corinthians 7:19

Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

 

 

God commands, christians say who cares

 

Paul commands, they accept it imidiatelly.

 

You prefer what Paul say instaed of God, that is why God call you christians in quran a deluded people who deviated from the right path. you have lost wisdom and knowledge, that is why you dont know simple stuff like benefits of circumsion and other siomple stuff.

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Ok – I can only hope Andalusi has gotten sick of asking the same questions like is Jesus God? Does God shave? 1+1+1=3? Blah blah blah yeh we heard him.

 

i will keep asking as long as you give me illgoical answers, i enjoy asking you such questions beacuse i know you cant answer me  :D

maybe you shall think logically instead of give me such illogical answers

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i will keep asking as long as you give me illgoical answers, i enjoy asking you such questions beacuse i know you cant answer me  :D

maybe you shall think logically instead of give me such illogical answers

The day I become logical is the day we believe God made the universe out of something rather than nothing. Keep up your moronic attitude, it will continue to give you nothing but sinful pride and ignorance.

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The day I become logical is the day we believe God made the universe out of something rather than nothing. Keep up your moronic attitude, it will continue to give you nothing but sinful pride and ignorance.

 

acttually he created the universe out of nothing

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Why is Islam only accepted relgion to God?

 

Bacuse Islam is relgion sent by God via prophets, Islam was present first during time of Adam and Eve, All prophets were muslims(the one who submit to the will of God) , abrahama, moses, jesus, muhammed were muslims and followers of Islam. Terms Judaism and Christianity are invetions by people , these names were not give by God, while Islam was given by God.

 

Jewish Rabbi admits Islam is the oldest religion 

 

If you compare biblical teachings you will notice that it is actually same relgion, relgion of Moses, jesus and other prophet and Islam, no difference. 

 

They all called God Allah

Prayed to God with their face on the floor (like muslims do today)

Wash before prayer

Greeting with same words(salam alaikom = beace be to you)

Not eating pork and alcohol

Circumsion

Not take interests

To Fast

Women covered their heads

Forbiden to make photos and statues of animals, humans, angels, God.....

 

But these christians today dont follow jesus teachings, they follow Paul's teachings, Paul was creator of christianity , when he abolished old Mosaic laws wich jesus forbade to be abolish that is how he create new religion called Christianity wich was unknown to jesus.

The most sad thing is, some christians are really passionate believers in God but their belief system can be the reason to go to hell in the hereafter beacuse they join partners to God, wich is a great sin wich leads to hellfire.

 

Even jesus himself said

 

 

Jesus God have another God???? 2 Gods?

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

so when Christians say Jesus is our God, while jesus himself had also a God, then we have two Gods

 

and then comes the problem

Mark 12:29 Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is this: 'Listen, O israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD.

That is why Jesus will estrange christians from himself when he comes back in future on the earth in his second coming.

 

 

Matthew 7:22

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
 

Beacuse christians were confused and thought jesus were their God, while jesus himself prayed to God, so they lost right direction and path.

 


  

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We can call God Allah, but we must not mistaken that for His name. That is not His name according to the Scriptures. I prefer to call Him father which makes Him more personal to me and me to Him like Jesus did.

 

of course it is his name according to the scripture, even jesus himself called God Allah, dont you know that??? your christian sources say that.

 

 

from christian sources:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Bible-Studies-1654/2008/2/Alaha.htm

So what if Jesus cried "Alaha" as He suffered and died?  Mohammed hadn't invented Islam yet.  Jesus, historically and biblically, was totally and utterly Jewish (Josephus, the Jewish historian called Him  a "Rabbi" who had many disciples).  And Aramaic was the language of the day.  Big deal, Jesus cried "Alaha."  

 

Sincerely,

 

Marilyn

 

Allah, God of Jesus, Muhammed, Christians, Jews, Muslims and all worlds 

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if you drink alcohol and you get drunk and kill a person without any reason, did alcohol make you unclean ? YES, yes, yes, and yes.

 

that is why bible is distorted book, if that is true that jesus said that, why did he not ate pork then?????? why did he not get drunk also?????

 

 

 

 

of course you can, ancient jews were punished by God via angel gabriel, that is why they hated angel Gabriel.

 

that is why God said this

 

God says in quran:

2:97-98 Say [Prophet], ‘If anyone is an enemy of Gabriel- who by God’s leave brought down the Quran to your heart confirming previous scriptures as a guide and good news for the faithful-

if anyone is an enemy of God, His angels and His messengers, of Gabriel and Michael, then God is certainly the enemy of such disbelievers.’

 

 

 

i have never seen in bible where jesus claim his divinity. only from you christians.

 

 

 

 

 

why do you go against your holy book, you dont follow even simple stuff from your bible

 

God commands you:

 

Exodus 20:4

You are not to make an image or picture of anything in heaven or on the earth or in the waters under the earth:

 

 

No alcohol did not make me unclean. It was my actions, the murder I did and my choice to get drunk that make me unclean.

 

While we have no evidence that Jesus ate pork we do have a story showing that he allowed people to drink.

 

John 2:1-12

New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Changes Water Into Wine

 

2 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

 

4 “Woman,[a] why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

 

5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

 

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.

 

7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.

 

8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

 

They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

 

11 What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

 

12 After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples. There they stayed for a few days

 

And if what I eat cannot make me unclean, as it goes into the latrine, how can pork make me unclean? Jesus said, it is my actions not my lunch that makes me unclean.

 

On the holy spirit. Fair enough. The problem for you is the teachings of the early church fathers on the Holy Spirit.

 

Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.

 

"O Lord God almighty... I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

 

Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.

 

"For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).

 

Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.

 

"In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (n. 7; PG 5.988).

"We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)

 

Irenaeus (115-190). As a boy he listened to Polycarp, the disciple of John. He became Bishop of Lyons.

 

"The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: ...one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,' and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all...'" (Against Heresies X.l)

 

Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.

 

"We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation... [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).

 

Origen (185-254). Alexandrian theologian. Defended Christianity and wrote much about Christianity.

 

"If anyone would say that the Word of God or the Wisdom of God had a beginning, let him beware lest he direct his impiety rather against the unbegotten Father, since he denies that he was always Father, and that he has always begotten the Word, and that he always had wisdom in all previous times or ages or whatever can be imagined in priority... There can be no more ancient title of almighty God than that of Father, and it is through the Son that he is Father" (De Princ. 1.2.; PG 11.132).

 

"For if [the Holy Spirit were not eternally as He is, and had received knowledge at some time and then became the Holy Spirit] this were the case, the Holy Spirit would never be reckoned in the unity of the Trinity, i.e., along with the unchangeable Father and His Son, unless He had always been the Holy Spirit." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 4, p. 253, de Principiis, 1.111.4)

 

"Moreover, nothing in the Trinity can be called greater or less, since the fountain of divinity alone contains all things by His word and reason, and by the Spirit of His mouth sanctifies all things which are worthy of sanctification..." (Roberts and Donaldson, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 4, p. 255, de Principii., I. iii. 7).

 

They describe the Holy Spirit as part of the trinity. Is Gabriel part of the trinity? From this we can know that the Apostles and their disciples did not interpret it as you do.

 

On Jesus divinity. Here is what I said earlier on the matter.

 

 

In John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—"I Am" (Ex. 3:14). His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself. "So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple" (John 8:59).

 

In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, "My Lord and my God!" (Greek: Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou—literally, "The Lord of me and the God of me!")

 

In Philippians 2:6, Paul tells us that Christ Jesus "[w]ho, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be g.asped" (New International Version). So Jesus chose to be born in humble, human form though he could have simply remained in equal glory with the Father for he was "in very nature God."

 

Also significant are passages that apply the title "the First and the Last" to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: "Thus says Yahweh, the King of israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’" (Is. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).

 

This title is directly applied to Jesus three times in the book of Revelation: "When I saw him [Christ], I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the First and the Last’" (Rev. 1:17). "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life’" (Rev. 2:8). "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end" (Rev. 22:12–13).

 

This last quote is especially significant since it applies to Jesus the parallel title "the Alpha and the Omega," which Revelation earlier applied to the Lord God: "‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty" (Rev. 1:8).

 

However in the end these verses, yours or mine, don't prove anything. For proof we must look to the early Christians, the ones who knew the apostles, and see how they interpreted scripture.

 

Here is their verdict.

 

 

 

Ignatius of Antioch

"Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God" (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

 

"For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit" (ibid., 18:2).

 

"[T]o the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is" (Letter to the Romans 1 [A.D. 110]).

 

 

 

Aristides

"[Christians] are they who, above every people of the earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the Creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit" (Apology 16 [A.D. 140]).

 

 

 

Tatian the Syrian

"We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man" (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).

 

 

 

Melito of Sardis

"It is no way necessary in dealing with persons of intelligence to adduce the actions of Christ after his baptism as proof that his soul and his body, his human nature, were like ours, real and not phantasmal. The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the deity hidden in his flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity, by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism, of his humanity, in the thirty years which came before his baptism, during which, by reason of his condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of his deity, although he was the true God existing before the ages" (Fragment in Anastasius of Sinai’s The Guide 13 [A.D. 177]).

 

 

 

Irenaeus

"For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them; and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who announced through the prophets the dispensations and the comings, and the birth from a Virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus our Lord, and his coming from heaven in the glory of the Father to reestablish all things; and the raising up again of all flesh of all humanity, in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth . . . " (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).

 

"Nevertheless, what cannot be said of anyone else who ever lived, that he is himself in his own right God and Lord . . . may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth" (ibid., 3:19:1).

 

 

 

Clement of Alexandria

"The Word, then, the Christ, is the cause both of our ancient beginning—for he was in God—and of our well-being. And now this same Word has appeared as man. He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things" (Exhortation to the Greeks 1:7:1 [A.D. 190]).

 

"Despised as to appearance but in reality adored, [Jesus is] the expiator, the Savior, the soother, the divine Word, he that is quite evidently true God, he that is put on a level with the Lord of the universe because he was his Son" (ibid., 10:110:1).

 

 

 

Tertullian

"The origins of both his substances display him as man and as God: from the one, born, and from the other, not born" (The Flesh of Christ 5:6–7 [A.D. 210]).

 

"That there are two gods and two Lords, however, is a statement which we will never allow to issue from our mouth; not as if the Father and the Son were not God, nor the Spirit God, and each of them God; but formerly two were spoken of as gods and two as Lords, so that when Christ would come, he might both be acknowledged as God and be called Lord, because he is the Son of him who is both God and Lord" (Against Praxeas 13:6 [A.D. 216]).

 

 

 

Origen

"Although he was God, he took flesh; and having been made man, he remained what he was: God" (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:0:4 [A.D. 225]).

 

 

 

Hippolytus

"Only [God’s] Word is from himself and is therefore also God, becoming the substance of God" (Refutation of All Heresies 10:33 [A.D. 228]).

 

 

 

Hippolytus of Rome

"For Christ is the God over all, who has arranged to wash away sin from mankind, rendering the old man new" (ibid., 10:34).

 

 

 

Novatian

"If Christ was only man, why did he lay down for us such a rule of believing as that in which he said, ‘And this is life eternal, that they should know you, the only and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent?’ [John 17:3]. Had he not wished that he also should be understood to be God, why did he add, ‘And Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent,’ except because he wished to be received as God also? Because if he had not wished to be understood to be God, he would have added, ‘And the man Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent;’ but, in fact, he neither added this, nor did Christ deliver himself to us as man only, but associated himself with God, as he wished to be understood by this conjunction to be God also, as he is. We must therefore believe, according to the rule prescribed, on the Lord, the one true God, and consequently on him whom he has sent, Jesus Christ, who by no means, as we have said, would have linked himself to the Father had he not wished to be understood to be God also. For he would have separated himself from him had he not wished to be understood to be God" (Treatise on the Trinity 16 [A.D. 235]).

 

 

 

Cyprian of Carthage

"One who denies that Christ is God cannot become his temple [of the Holy Spirit] . . . " (Letters 73:12 [A.D. 253]).

 

 

 

Gregory the Wonderworker

"There is one God, the Father of the living Word, who is his subsistent wisdom and power and eternal image: perfect begetter of the perfect begotten, Father of the only-begotten Son. There is one Lord, only of the only, God of God, image and likeness of deity, efficient Word, wisdom comprehensive of the constitution of all things, and power formative of the whole creation, true Son of true Father, invisible of invisible, and incorruptible of incorruptible, and immortal of immortal and eternal of eternal. . . . And thus neither was the Son ever wanting to the Father, nor the Spirit to the Son; but without variation and without change, the same Trinity abides ever" (Declaration of Faith [A.D. 265]).

 

 

 

Arnobius

"‘Well, then,’ some raging, angry, and excited man will say, ‘is that Christ your God?’ ‘God indeed,’ we shall answer, ‘and God of the hidden powers’" (Against the Pagans 1:42 [A.D. 305]).

 

 

 

Lactantius

"He was made both Son of God in the spirit and Son of man in the flesh, that is, both God and man" (Divine Institutes 4:13:5 [A.D. 307]).

 

"We, on the other hand, are [truly] religious, who make our supplications to the one true God. Someone may perhaps ask how, when we say that we worship one God only, we nevertheless assert that there are two, God the Father and God the Son—which assertion has driven many into the greatest error . . . [thinking] that we confess that there is another God, and that he is mortal. . . . [but w]hen we speak of God the Father and God the Son, we do not speak of them as different, nor do we separate each, because the Father cannot exist without the Son, nor can the Son be separated from the Father" (ibid., 4:28–29).

On idols. The verse means animals. Heaven is used in place of sky, while earth and water mean earth and water. God tells us not to worship these in the next verse. This God wants us to not worship statues of animals. However he commands us on occasion to make statues of animals for His purposes. For example, during a plague of serpents sent to punish the israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to "make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live" (Num. 21:8–9).

 

Obviously we are not to worship statues or images but we may make them for religious purposes, for example, to remind us of Jesus' sacrifice or to remind us of God.

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Why is Islam only accepted relgion to God?

 

Bacuse Islam is relgion sent by God via prophets, Islam was present first during time of Adam and Eve, All prophets were muslims(the one who submit to the will of God) , abrahama, moses, jesus, muhammed were muslims and followers of Islam. Terms Judaism and Christianity are invetions by people , these names were not give by God, while Islam was given by God.

 

Jewish Rabbi admits Islam is the oldest religion

 

If you compare biblical teachings you will notice that it is actually same relgion, relgion of Moses, jesus and other prophet and Islam, no difference.

 

They all called God Allah

Prayed to God with their face on the floor (like muslims do today)

Wash before prayer

Greeting with same words(salam alaikom = beace be to you)

Not eating pork and alcohol

Circumsion

Not take interests

To Fast

Women covered their heads

Forbiden to make photos and statues of animals, humans, angels, God.....

 

But these christians today dont follow jesus teachings, they follow Paul's teachings, Paul was creator of christianity , when he abolished old Mosaic laws wich jesus forbade to be abolish that is how he create new religion called Christianity wich was unknown to jesus.

The most sad thing is, some christians are really passionate believers in God but their belief system can be the reason to go to hell in the hereafter beacuse they join partners to God, wich is a great sin wich leads to hellfire.

 

Even jesus himself said

 

 

Jesus God have another God???? 2 Gods?

 

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

 

so when Christians say Jesus is our God, while jesus himself had also a God, then we have two Gods

 

and then comes the problem

Mark 12:29 Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is this: 'Listen, O israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD.

 

That is why Jesus will estrange christians from himself when he comes back in future on the earth in his second coming.

 

 

Matthew 7:22

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!

 

Beacuse christians were confused and thought jesus were their God, while jesus himself prayed to God, so they lost right direction and path.

 

 

 

And again you repeat yourself. I have replied to your point on two Gods at least three times in this thread. Now is a fourth time. When Jesus became man he became lower than the Angela so he could save us.

 

On your other bible verse. That is in regards to false prophets like Muhammad or people who do great works but never really try to be close to Jesus. Both think that they are serving God but instead they sin and lead others away. So Jesus sends them away.

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when you learn science, you will know why God commanded you that in bible, but you dont care what God commands you in bible

Do the Health Benefits of Neonatal Circumcision Outweigh the Risks?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324798904578531063301112102.html

 

 

God commands you circumsion:

 

9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come.10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised.11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenantbetween me and you.12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised,including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring.13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant.14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

 

 

but your christianity founder Paul commands you other wise

 

1 Corinthians 7:19

Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

 

 

God commands, christians say who cares

 

Paul commands, they accept it imidiatelly.

 

You prefer what Paul say instaed of God, that is why God call you christians in quran a deluded people who deviated from the right path. you have lost wisdom and knowledge, that is why you dont know simple stuff like benefits of circumsion and other siomple stuff.

Wrong. The founder of my religion was Jesus. Paul merely helped spread His teachings to the Gentiles ( myself among them). Jesus brought the law to completion. Baptism is circumcision brought to completion. Where as circumcision was but an outward sign of devotion to God, Baptism is both external and internal sign of devotion to God.

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Andalusi. I grow weary of this. We have been going on since school ended. Now school begins again. We have both repeated and replied to and counter replied to each others arguements. I feel content in what I have achieved and I have strengthened my faith. But now it must end. Do you wish to end this debate?

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&amp;amp;nbsp;First of all, I didn't say we cannot or should not call Him Allah. I said that is not His name. Allah means "The God" That is not a name. Didn't you know that?

 

So what if Jesus cried, "Alaha" when He suffered and died? What is your point, and why are you using the example of His suffering and death when you don't believe He died on the cross? This is what makes me think you are grasping at straws and have no substance to your arguments.

 

As far as I can tell, every argument you presented has been pawned by me, because you're bringing up arguments that are beating the air.

 

I do wish you Peace though.

 

Sincerely

 

 

 

First of all, I didn't say we cannot or should not call Him Allah. I said that is not His name. Allah means "The God" That is not a name. Didn't you know that?

 

wrong, in arabic word for God is ILAH, and Allah is his personal name.

 

 

What is your point, and why are you using the example of His suffering and death when you don't believe He died on the cross?

 

the point is i give reference from your christian scholar wich say jesus called God Allah, not JAHWE. suffereing and dying on the cross is irrelevant in this subject, about God's name. She can even say that jesus was clown, but she admits that jesus called God Allah. that is the point.

 

 

 

This is what makes me think you are grasping at straws and have no substance to your arguments.

 

no, i just give you evidence from your sources.

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No alcohol did not make me unclean. It was my actions, the murder I did and my choice to get drunk that make me unclean. 

 

but alcohol was the reason to make such actions , let me give you an example

 

let say some drunk man drive a car and hits your young son, and kill him, and you say to him how could you drive like this man, how can you drive as a drunk man, he says to you, dont blame on the alcohol, blame om my driving skills. BUT, IT WAS DUE TO ALCOHOL THAT HE LOST HIS DRIVING SKILLS.

 

SHALL WE BLAME ON HIS DRIVING SKILLS OR ALCOHOL IN THIS SITUATION? SAME IT WAS WHEN YOU DRINK AND KILL SOMEONE, IT WAS DUE TO ALCOHOL. THAT IS why you are wrong. and yes alcohol make you anclean as long as it leads you to commit stupid stuff in life, and it harms you health. so how can jesus, allow something wich can kill you and not only that bible forbids alcohol. so how can Jesus allow you something to kill or harm you or others and in the same time go against old mosaic laws wich forbids alcohol.

 

 

let take another example, what if someone kill you and another man screamn at this man who killed you, and he scream, and say why did you kill innocent man with this gun, he replu, no actually, the gun did not kill him, it was the bullet, dont blame the gun, blame the bullet.

 

 

While we have no evidence that Jesus ate pork we do have a story showing that he allowed people to drink. 

 

 

no he did not, he would never allow something wich will cause harm to people and go against bible itself

 

 

“Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly! In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper” (Proverbs 23:31, NIV).

 

Numbers 6:1-3

The LORD said to Moses,"Speak to the israelites and say to them: 'If a man or woman wants to make a special vow, a vow of dedication to the LORD as a Nazirite, they must abstain from wine and other fermented drink and must not drink vinegar made from wine or other fermented drink. They must not drink grape juice or eat grapes or raisins.

 

Proverbs 20:1

Wine produces mockers; alcohol leads to brawls. Those led astray by drink cannot be wise.

 

Judges 13:4

Therefore be careful and drink no wine or strong drink, and eat nothing unclean,

 

Isaiah 5: 11 and 22

Woe to those who rise early in the morning to run after their drinks, who stay up late at night till they are inflamed with wine.

Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks,

 

Luke 1:15

for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born.

 

can you imagine jesus going against these from old testemant???

do you really believe that jesus allowed something wich will harm people, if you believe that then know that you are deluded person.

 

can you imagine jesus in this state, a man from God, a great prophet from God, a wiseman be like this

 

yoga6.jpg

 

 

 

They describe the Holy Spirit as part of the trinity. Is Gabriel part of the trinity? From this we can know that the Apostles and their disciples did not interpret it as you do. 

On Jesus divinity. Here is what I said earlier on the matter.

 

actually apostles understood but those who wrote the bible did not understood probabaly. bible was written long after jesus departed from earth.

Edited by andalusi

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