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You are woefully ignorant andalusi .  OMNISCIENT-All Knowing ,is referring to God's Knowledge , Omnipotent -All Powerfull   ,He is Allmighty , Omnipresent -He is everywhere .

 

 You need  to start from scratch and learn about God . Even in your own faith you are sorely lacking .

 

 

It seems you have been taught the "politics of your religion " rather than the nature of God and spirituality .

 

i know a lot about God

 

explain to me How can God pray to another God?

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You know nothing about God and less about Christianity  andalusi , except that which you are told and that which you cut and paste  .

 

 

 

 

 

Stick to politics , you may do better at that .

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You know nothing about God and less about Christianity  andalusi , except that which you are told and that which you cut and paste  .

 

 

Stick to politics , you may do better at that .

 

why dont you answer the question if you know so much about God?

 

again

 

explain to me How can God pray to another God?

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Fathi on your first article.

 

The author makes the claim that early Christians did not believe in a triune God. Here are a few quotes by early Christians. All but Ireneaus were alive alongside the Apostles. I would especially like to emphasize Ignatius' quote. That sounds alot like the Trinity.

 

Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.

 

"O Lord God almighty... I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

 

Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.

 

"For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).

 

Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.

 

"In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (n. 7; PG 5.988).

"We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)

 

Irenaeus (115-190). As a boy he listened to Polycarp, the disciple of John. He became Bishop of Lyons.

 

"The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: ...one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,' and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all...'" (Against Heresies X.l)

 

Here is the basis for a three persons God from Scripture. http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/apologetics/trinity/the-trinity-in-scripture/

 

The author also sets up a straw man by trying to make it look like early Christian councils taught that God was flawed because man is flawed and Jesus became man. This ignores Christian theology. Man was not always flawed. We only became flawed because of disobedience to God. Jesus obeyed God and was free of the corruption from Adams error so he was not flawed and did not make God flawed.

 

Here are some links on the three councils he mentions and on why they were called, in case you wanted to know more.

 

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/nicea1.txt

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Councils/ecum03.htm

http://www./cathen/03555a.htm

 

He claims the trinity originated in Babylon and moved to Greece and then Christianity. I am not knowledgeable about Babylonian gods so I'm not sure which three he is referring to but in Greece he claims Zeus, Poseidon and Hades were a one God in three persons. This is untrue. The Greeks worshipped those three God's as the most influential among their many gods. They were not believed to be united into one God and in some myths even fought against each other. For example in the Iliad Poseidon supported the Greeks while Zeus supported the Trojans.

 

The author then quotes Numbers 23:19 out of context. First off the verse is about how God doesn't lie or change like humans. Second, and more importantly, Jesus had not incarnated yet and as such God had not become man.

 

The author then uses several Christian sources that state the Trinity was not clearly formulated until Nicaea and thus was not believed until then. Here he is incorrect. As I have shown earlier the Trinity was believed by Christians very early in Christian history.

 

Then he uses the book, The Doctrine of the Trinity Christianity’s Self-Inflicted Wound by Anthony F. Buzzard Charles F. Hunting to claim that the Trinity developed in the 2nd century. The Christians I listed were from the first century and show Mr. Buzzards error.

 

He then claims that the Trinity was cobbled together from pagan beliefs. Here is an article I found on the subject.

http://www.catholic.com/blog/jon-sorensen/the-early-church-fathers-and-paganism

It shows the Church Fathers disdain for paganism.

 

He then takes a quote by the catholic encyclopedia and twist it to serve his purpose.

 

Catholic Encyclopedia 1991

 

"The term 'Trinity' does not appear in scripture"

 

"(The Doctrine of the Trinity) - hammered out over the course of three centuries of doctrinal controversy against modalism and subordinationism"

 

He uses this to claim that the Catholic Church made up the trinity. While the word Trinity isn't found in the bible the belief is. Just read the introduction to John's Gospel. Doctrines are attempts to find the correct words to explain a belief. Many incorrect explanations were put forward by people and were refuted under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and declared heretical.

 

He then repeats his claim on Babylon. Here is a site I found on Babylonian gods and goddesses. I couldn't find any that were a trinity, though I had to skim through it.

http://home.comcast.net/~chris.s/assyrbabyl-faq.html

 

He then talks about Arius. Arius claimed that Christ was a created being. However unlike Muslims he did not teach that Jesus was a man but rather a powerful demigod.

 

The author then attempts to show how Constantine forced the trinity on Christians. I found several articles on Nicaea and his role in it, which I will post below.

 

http://www.earlychristianhistory.info/nicaea.html

http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/godsreligion/p/aa082499.htm

http://www.catholic.com/blog/jon-sorensen/constantine-has-been-beaten-to-death

 

Here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on Arianism. It shows how Constantine didn't particularly care about the doctrines involved and only wanted agreement from the bishops.

 

Although he was committed to maintaining what the church had defined at Nicaea, Constantine was also bent on pacifying the situation and eventually became more lenient toward those condemned and exiled at the council. First he allowed Eusebius of Nicomedia, who was a protégé of his sister, and Theognis to return once they had signed an ambiguous statement of faith. The two, and other friends of Arius, worked for Arius' rehabilitation. At the First Synod of Tyre in AD 335, they brought accusations against Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, the primary opponent of Arius; after this, Constantine had Athanasius banished, since he considered him an impediment to reconciliation. In the same year, the Synod of Jerusalem under Constantine's direction readmitted Arius to communion in AD 336. Arius, however, died on the way to this event in Constantinople. Some scholars suggest that Arius may have been poisoned by his opponents.[17] Eusebius and Theognis remained in the Emperor's favour, and when Constantine, who had been a catechumen much of his adult life, accepted baptism on his deathbed, it was from Eusebius of Nicomedia.[18]

 

You'll note that after the Council the doctrine of the Trinity was formulated to explain the trifold God found in the Bible and early Church.

 

In conclusion the idea of a God in three persons was believed since the times of Christ and was shown in the Bible. It was formulated into the doctrine of the Trinity at Nicaea. Note that this doesn't mean that it wasn't believed until then but rather that it was not put into one universal way of explaining it. Before the doctrine of the Trinity there were many ways of explaining the three persons of God. That led to all the disagreements.

 

Pardon if this is long and full of spelling errors.

God bless.

 

Firstly, are there original documents of these early believers?

 

Second there are numerous Bible verses that disagree with this concept.  For the sake of time I will refrain from inserting them now but if you need them I will. 

 

The first one is the story of the man who comes before Jesus (pbuh) and says good teacher and Jesus (pbuh) asks him why he calls him good when surely no one is good but God.  Next there is the verse in Ezekiel where it clearly says that man shall not pay for the sins of the father nor shall the father pay for the sins of the child but to each his own accord.  Also several times in the Old Testament you can see examples of individuals and groups being forgiven despite there being no "savior".  Next the concept of the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 when read in context with the rest of the book shows that it is referring to israel in metaphorical terms.  Also if you go over Psalms 91 you will see that it promises that Jesus (pbuh) will see no harm.  Finally if the holy spirit was part of the trinity then why was it necessary for Jesus (pbuh) to leave to allow it come when it was already here according to Luke chapter 1?

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A couple fun links on understanding coin phrases by the people that made them:

 

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13912-son-of-god

 

 

In Judaism God does not have a son, and although references to "sons of God" or "son of God" are occasionally found in Jewish literature, they never refer to physical descent from God.[12][13] These terms are often used in the general sense in which the Jewish people were referred to as "children of the Lord your God".[12] In the introduction to the flood story, Genesis 6:2 refers to "sons of God" who married the daughters of man and is used in a polytheistic context to refer to angels.[12][14] In the Book of Exodus israel as a people is called "God's son", using the singular form.[15] When used by the Rabbis, the term referred to israel or to human beings in general, and not as a reference to the Messiah.

source:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God

 

But wait there's more:

 

exodus 4:22, 2 samuel 7:8-14 ... there are more but I think the point is there

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In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

 

A couple of things can be gathered from this right off the bat.  This persistent belief that Jesus (pbuh) had to leave in order for the holy spirit to come is refuted both here and in Luke chapter 1.  Next we see that there is a turning of days and yet the sun and moon is not created until later on. Now photosynthesis dictates that for vegetation to live there has to be sunlight.  Of course, that is to say nothing of the fact that all scientists agree that vegetation was not always here.

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What I see is a few confused Muslims trying to refute Christianity through a lack of knowledge ,and context of the New testament as well as the old . It is no wonder you are confused .

 Stick to your own book , there are enough contradictions there to write a book on .

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People like you have a lot to say when they sit behind a keyboard but don't have the balls to say it to anyone's face.  Maybe you ain't from the U.S. so you don't realize where I am from but I can guarantee you that knowing the Bible where I am from is not just part of my upbringing it is also part of my culture.

Edited by fathi

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People like you have a lot to say when they sit behind a keyboard but don't have the balls to say it to anyone's face.  Maybe you ain't from the U.S. so you don't realize where I am from but I can guarantee you that knowing the Bible where I am from is not just part of my upbringing it is also part of my culture.

 

then explain can God pray to another God?

Edited by andalusi

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salaam alaiykum brother,  we both know God does not pray to God.  But these gentlemen do not like to read those parts and when they do they want to try and construct some elaborate scheme to try and make it make sense instead of simply saying hey there is something wrong here.

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Andalusi,

 

The answer to your question lies in the hypostatic union of God. The Hidden Father and his Son Jesus Christ who is the icon of the Father. Now why would he pray to his Father? To fulfill all righteousness. It wasn't for his benefit but for ours.

 

Peace be with you.

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Unfortunately Heavens Fire , skips over your obvious error as his motive is to avoid confrontation and perhaps is attempting to convert you.

 I  have no intention to convert you , I simply confront you with your error , and advise you , if you not are already aware  [ and I think you are ]  that you are being insulting, since I do not believe you can make such an error if  you understand the English Language . and have read the  material you are attempting to criticize .

 

 In other words andalusi , I will not play games with you on such a subject . Apparently Heaven's Fire will .

 

 Heaven's fire will waste your time cut and pasting the information he finds rather than explain to you in simple terms the meaning of what he calls " original sin " . This is merely a reference to man's fallen nature , which traces back to Adam and Eve , but in a contemporary setting , we are all born with a nature to sin , yes we ask God to forgive us and in His Mercy he forgives us , yet we continue to sin in word and deed . That is the nature of the "son of man " . Jesus was the FIRST SON OF MAN to lead a SINLESS LIFE . The first "son of man " to become a Son of God  .Indeed God Himself come to Earth in the form of a "son of man " to be THE EXAMPLE  to which men can not be in their fallen nature .  Jesus is also referred to as The First Adam , or the FIRST BORN SON OF GOD .  The First Born of MANY who will become Sons of God . Belief in Jesus , his DEATH, BURIAL , AND RESSURRECTION  gives men the power to become Sons of God .

  That belief does not come from the preachings of men like Heaven's Fire or anyone else . Many " hear " the word but do not believe .  The Holy Spirit touches men to believe .They accept or reject .  Those who accept can NEVER be lost . Jesus said whoever is delivered to him by the Spirit will never be taken from his hand .

 

 

 There you have it andalusi , stop wasting your time trying to refute and convert Christians . True Christians will never revert [ as you put it ] .

 

 Listening to Heaven's Fire , it may take weeks and countless cut and pastes for Heaven's Fire to make his point . The Everlasting Gospel is SIMPLE , it requires no memorization , no dogma , no traditions , no man made rules or conformities , NO RELIGION .

 

 There is Jesus and nothing else . The " TRIUNE GOD " is GOD manifesting in three forms , a concept not easily understood , yet if God is God , he can be whatever he wishes and manifest himself in whatever way he wishes .Because man with his finite mind can not comprehend the Infinite Mind of God , that does not discount the possibilities of what God can do . 

 

If you find that concept hard to accept , then how do you accept that God is Omnipresent ?   How can God be everywhere at all places and times ?   You can not understand THAT , nor can I , we accept it because He is God .

 

Jesus said " I am the ONLY WAY to the Father .

 

You take it or leave it andalusi . Don't try to refute a TRUE CHRISTIAN ,   Be a good man , a good Muslim , God is Merciful . At the end you will get the opportunity to accept or reject your salvation through the Christ .THAT is the TRUE CHRISTIAN BELIEF >these word games will take up your time indefinitely , and that would be a waste of the time we are given .

Aligarr you hit the nail on the head. I have tried to explain all these things to Andalusi in the hopes that he will understand. I have to agree that he is a lost cause. I disagree with you on Doctrine and Religion but you are right on everything else. God bless.

 

Truth be told Andalusi I am sick of going round and round on the same issues only to have you ask the same questions that I answered before. I will not discuss these things with you anymore. What we believe, while important, only matters if we live out our faith. This discussion with you is obstructing that path. God bless.

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Fathi as I said earlier I am sick of debating. Feel free to message me with your questions and then give me a month or two to reply. I need an extended break from this forum. God Bless.

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Andalusi,

 

The answer to your question lies in the hypostatic union of God. The Hidden Father and his Son Jesus Christ who is the icon of the Father. Now why would he pray to his Father? To fulfill all righteousness. It wasn't for his benefit but for ours.

 

Peace be with you.

 

If jesus is God and his Father is also a God.

 

God pray to another God to fulfill all righteousness. are you ok with this??????

 

 

 

It wasn't for his benefit but for ours.

 

then let see for whom he prayed, for himself or us?

 

Matthew 26:39

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

 

A God shall not pray to anyone specially not to another God, can you image powerless God, wh need to pray to another God to fullfill his needs.

 

peace

Edited by andalusi

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Aligarr you hit the nail on the head. I have tried to explain all these things to Andalusi in the hopes that he will understand. I have to agree that he is a lost cause. I disagree with you on Doctrine and Religion but you are right on everything else. God bless.

 

Truth be told Andalusi I am sick of going round and round on the same issues only to have you ask the same questions that I answered before. I will not discuss these things with you anymore. What we believe, while important, only matters if we live out our faith. This discussion with you is obstructing that path. God bless.

 

 

i will keep continue ask questions untill i get logical answers

 

nobody has logically explained how can God pray to another God to fullfill his wishes, what kind of powerless God is that?????????

 

the problem is Bible clearly says jesus is not God, so when jesus prayed as humanbeing to God is totally normal and ok, but to claim jesus is God and he prays to another God or to himself is totally ridicolous. you people need to wake up and see stuff in the eyes and not to beleive everything blindly. 

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You have so much more patience than me brother Andulasi lol

 

i dont know why christians are afraid of accepting Islamic belief system about jesus and God, wich is pure and simple, but they dont want accept that, they think, we will keep believe in our complicated christianity

 

"why should we believe in One God and jesus his prophet when we can cut God in 3 parts and believe that Jesus is God who prayed to his God and not only that, to believe that God died on the cross is more accepted than Islamic belief system where God is untouchable, nobody can come close to hurt him, in anyway, but he can punish whoever he wish in all possible and impossible ways"

 

they rather accept that We are born with sins inherited from Adam while Islamic system clearly says that children are born without sins.

Edited by andalusi

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i will keep continue ask questions untill i get logical answers

 

nobody has logically explained how can God pray to another God to fullfill his wishes, what kind of powerless God is that?????????

 

the problem is Bible clearly says jesus is not God, so when jesus prayed as humanbeing to God is totally normal and ok, but to claim jesus is God and he prays to another God or to himself is totally ridicolous. you people need to wake up and see stuff in the eyes and not to beleive everything blindly. 

You have not enlightened us to the illogic of the hypo static union. Not the first time it came up, nor the second time when it came up again after you changed the subject, nor this time. You just parroted your original question with slightly different words and then claimed victory. I am done.

 

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. Matthew 10:14

 

Pardon my impatience. I am just tired of this discussion. God bless.

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[at] heavens fire is that how Jesus (pbuh) would have taught? Did he use phrases of higher knowledge or did he try and break into ways that his audience would understand? 

 

It seems, from my perspective, that the frustration should be self directed.  There is an old saying that goes if you can't teach it then you don't really know it.

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Jesus did teach like that. I have tried to do the same but have gotten nowhere in the approximately half year this has been going on. Hence the need for a break. Pardon if I seem rude. I have been getting sick of this discussion for awhile now. I'm guessing I just lack the knowledge and experience to very well explain Christian doctrine. I agree I don't know it all very well if at all. In fact I've been learning the doctrines through this discussion. For example until now I didn't understand Original Sin. However this has run its course and I need some time where I'm not thinking about how I'll organize my reply outlining a doctrine but rather focused on learning the doctrine in question. God bless.

Andalusi I'm sorry for my frustration. I will come back eventually. God bless.

Edited by Heavens Fire

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Aligarr, heavens fire;

 

I think the main reason you get so frustrated is because of your trying to teach Christianity to those who can't understand because they have seals over their eyes. Andalusi wants a logical answer to his question yet, he can't get one until he truly seeks one. What we have are two competing religious theologies. One simple and one not. The irony is the simple one is very alluring to those who seek power for while their is accountability to God the individual answers to no one else not even themselves. Thus, the simple theology is often misused or touted on one hand while being ignored on the other. Thus tyrants are born some religious some atheistic some atheistic hiding as religious. Now Christianity specially Apostolic Christianity such as the Catholic and Orthodox churches are reasoned faiths. They preach the Gospel and aren't afraid to die for it. For our lord Jesus Christ has conquered death. Aligarr, heavens fire; remember not all will accept the gospel even among his own family. Sometimes to preach Christ one must be Christ. May the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you now and always.

 

Peace be with you.

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Mohammed is the antichrist

 

“Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.” – 1 John2:22

An antichrist is defined by Christians as "one who denies that Jesus came into flesh," but it also means an enemy of Christ or one who causes others to deviate from the way of Jesus. Those who followed Pail's rendition of the religion were misled by his confusing dogmas, which were taught neither by Jesus nor by any of the prophets who preceded him.

 

In John 8:31-32, Jesus is quoted as saying:

 

"If you continue in my word, then you are my disciples indeed; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

 

But Paul had somewhat different view. In Romans 3:7, he poses the questions:

 

"For if the truth of God has more abounded through my lie unto His glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?"

 

If Paul had been a sincere servant of God, there would have been no need to lie. How can truth increase through untruth? Could these be words of someone who received his "commission" directly from Jesus? Today, Christian are under pressure to clarify those "lies unto His glory" propagated by Paul and his followers. In order to do so, they must return to the pure teachings of Prophet Jesus, which are based on truth and submission to the laws and commands of God, the Almighty.

 

St Paul is not an original apostle of Jesus. . He may have been called original because he pioneered a new religion and named it Christianity which was not the religion of Jesus. He preached Trinitarian philosophy as opposed to genuine monotheism and abolished Law and originated new guidelines for salvation. He simplified religion in to believing and confessing (faith) alone. He changed laws related to diet, circumcision and sacrifices to segregate Christianity from Judaism. He infiltrated Pagan ideas in to the teachings of Jesus in the name of universalism. For such reasons President Thomas Jefferson once wrote that St Paul was the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_religion).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by the truthful
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You have not enlightened us to the illogic of the hypo static union. Not the first time it came up, nor the second time when it came up again after you changed the subject, nor this time. You just parroted your original question with slightly different words and then claimed victory. I am done.

 

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. Matthew 10:14

 

Pardon my impatience. I am just tired of this discussion. God bless.

It was Paul of Tarsus  and some Christians who gradually elevated Prophet Jesus to God together with the formulation of the doctrine of Trinity which was declared to be the orthodox Christian belief in 325 AD.

 

God Bless and peace be with you..

Edited by the truthful

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All I can say is I wish there was a emocon of a head beating it self into a brick wall on this thread. Your Islamic filter is so high that is what I feel like I am doing. I can put up verses till I am blue in the face or church doctorine till the cows come home (since I don't have any cows could be a while). I have concluded that this is completely pointless. I am a Catholic Christian and that is that. I will post exactly what all that means for you. But after this I think I am done here for a while with this stuff.

Apostles' Creed:

Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem, Creatorem caeli et terrae. Et in Iesum Christum, Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum, qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto, natus ex Maria Virgine, passus sub Pontio Pilato, crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus, descendit ad infernos, tertia die resurrexit a mortuis, ascendit ad caelos, sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis, inde venturus est iudicare vivos et mortuos. Credo in Spiritum Sanctum, sanctam Ecclesiam catholicam, sanctorum communionem, remissionem peccatorum, carnis resurrectionem, vitam aeternam. Amen.

 

or

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

 

Nicene Creed

Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, factorem caeli et terrae,visibilium omnium et invisibilium.

Et in unum Dominum Iesum Christum, Filium Dei unigenitum, et ex Patre natum ante omnia saecula. Deum de Deo, Lumen de Lumine, Deum verum de Deo vero, genitum non factum, consubstantialem Patri; per quem omnia facta sunt.

Qui propter nos homines et propter nostram salutem descendit de caelis. Et incarnatus est de Spiritu Sancto ex Maria Virgine, et homo factus est.

Crucifixus etiam pro nobis sub Pontio Pilato, passus et sepultus est, et resurrexit tertia die, secundum Scripturas, et ascendit in caelum, sedet ad dexteram Patris.

Et iterum venturus est cum gloria, iudicare vivos et mortuos, cuius regni non erit finis.

Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem, qui ex Patre Filioque procedit.

Qui cum Patre et Filio simul adoratur et conglorificatur: qui locutus est per prophetas.

Et unam, sanctam, catholicam et apostolicam Ecclesiam.

Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. Et expecto resurrectionem mortuorum, et vitam venturi saeculi. Amen.

 

or

 

I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father; through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. He was made flesh by the Holy Spirit from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; suffered, and was buried. On the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures; He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and of His kingdom there shall be no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Who, with the Father and the Son, is adored and glorified: Who has spoken through the Prophets.

And I believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic Church.

I confess one baptism for the remission of sins. And I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the age to come. Amen.

 

Athanasian Creed

Quicumque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est, ut teneat Catholicam fidem: Quam nisi quisque integram inviolatamque servaverit, absque dubio in aeternam peribit.

Fides autem catholica haec est: ut unum Deum in Trinitate, et Trinitatem in unitate veneremur. Neque confundentes personas, neque substantiam seperantes. Alia est enim persona Patris alia Filii, alia Spiritus Sancti: Sed Patris, et Fili, et Spiritus Sancti una est divinitas, aequalis gloria, coeterna maiestas. Qualis Pater, talis Filius, talis Spiritus Sanctus. Increatus Pater, increatus Filius, increatus Spiritus Sanctus. Immensus Pater, immensus Filius, immensus Spiritus Sanctus. Aeternus Pater, aeternus Filius, aeternus Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres aeterni, sed unus aeternus. Sicut non tres increati, nec tres immensi, sed unus increatus, et unus immensus. Similiter omnipotens Pater, omnipotens Filius, omnipotens Spiritus Sanctus.Et tamen non tres omnipotentes, sed unus omnipotens. Ita Deus Pater, Deus Filius, Deus Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres dii, sed unus est Deus.

Ita Dominus Pater, Dominus Filius, Dominus Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres Domini, sed unus est Dominus. Quia, sicut singillatim unamquamque personam Deum ac Dominum confiteri christiana veritate compelimur: ita tres Deos aut Dominos dicere catholica religione prohibemur. Pater a nullo est factus: nec creatus, nec genitus. Filius a Patre solo est: non factus, nec creatus, sed genitus. Spiritus Sanctus a Patre et Filio: non factus, nec creatus, nec genitus, sed procedens. Unus ergo Pater, non tres Patres: unus Filius, non tres Filii: unus Spiritus Sanctus, non tres Spiritus Sancti.

Et in hac Trinitate nihil prius aut posterius, nihil maius aut minus: sed totae tres personae coaeternae sibi sunt et coaequales. Ita ut per omnia, sicut iam supra dictum est, et unitas in Trinitate, et Trinitas in unitate veneranda sit. Qui vult ergo salvus esse, ita de Trinitate sentiat. Sed necessarium est ad aeternam salutem, ut incarnationem quoque Domini nostri Jesu Christi fideliter credat. Est ergo fides recta ut credamus et confiteamur, quia Dominus noster Jesus Christus, Dei Filius, Deus et homo est.

Deus est ex substantia Patris ante saecula genitus: et homo est ex substantia matris in saeculo natus. Perfectus Deus, perfectus homo: ex anima rationali et humana carne subsistens. Aequalis Patri secundum divinitatem: minor Patre secundum humanitatem. Qui licet Deus sit et homo, non duo tamen, sed unus est Christus. Unus autem non conversione divinitatis in carnem, sed assumptione humanitatis in Deum. Unus omnino, non confusione substantiae, sed unitate personae. Nam sicut anima rationalis et caro unus est homo: ita Deus et homo unus est Christus. Qui passus est pro salute nostra: descendit ad inferos: tertia die resurrexit a mortuis. Ascendit ad caelos, sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis: inde venturus est iudicare vivos et mortuos. Ad cuius adventum omnes homines resurgere habent cum corporibus suis: et reddituri sunt de factis propriis rationem. Et qui bona egerunt, ibunt in vitam aeternam: qui vero mala, in ignem aeternum.

Haec est fides catholica, quam nisi quisque fideliter firmiterque crediderit, salvus esse non poterit. Amen.

 

or

 

Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith. For unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire he will undoubtedly be lost forever. This is what the Catholic faith teaches: we worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity. We distinguish among the persons, but we do not divide the substance. For the Father is a distinct person; the Son is a distinct person; and the Holy Spirit is a distinct person.

Still the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have one divinity, equal glory, and coeternal majesty. What the Father is, the Son is, and the Holy Spirit is. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, and the Holy Spirit is uncreated. The Father is boundless, the Son is boundless, and the Holy Spirit is boundless. The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, and the Holy Spirit is eternal.

Nevertheless, there are not three eternal beings, but one eternal being. Thus there are not three uncreated beings, nor three boundless beings, but one uncreated being and one boundless being. Likewise, the Father is omnipotent, the Son is omnipotent, and the Holy Spirit is omnipotent. Yet there are not three omnipotent beings, but one omnipotent being. Thus the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. But there are not three gods, but one God. The Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, and the Holy Spirit is Lord. There as not three lords, but one Lord. For according to Christian truth, we must profess that each of the persons individually is God; and according to Christian religion we are forbidden to say that there are three gods or lords. The Father is not made by anyone, nor created by anyone, nor generated by anyone. The Son is not made nor created, but he is generated by the Father alone. The Holy Spirit is not made nor created nor generated, but proceeds from the Father and the Son.

There is, then, one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, but not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits. In this Trinity, there is nothing greater, nothing less than anything else. But the entire three persons are coeternal and coequal with one another. So that, as we have said, we worship complete unity in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity.

This, then, is what he who wishes to be saved must believe about the Trinity. It is also necessary for eternal salvation that he believes steadfastly in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. The true faith is: we believe and profess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and man. As God He was begotten of the substance of the Father before time; as man He was born in time of the substance of His Mother. He is perfect God; and He is perfect man, with a rational soul and human flesh. He is equal to the Father in His divinity, but He is inferior to the Father in His humanity. Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ. And He is one, not because His divinity was changed into flesh, but because His humanity was assumed to God. He is one, not at all because of a mingling of substances, but because He is one person. As a rational soul and flesh are one man: so God and man are one Christ.

He died for our salvation, descended to hell, arose from the dead on the third day. Ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty, and from there He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At His coming, all men are to arise with their own bodies; and they are to give an account of their lives. Those who have done good deeds will go into eternal life; those who have done evil will go into everlasting fire.

This is the Catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved. Amen.

Any Catholic questions can be looked up here. http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm It is the CCC

 

for proper scriptural references use this link here. http://www.latinvulgate.com/

 

Other than that I feel no need for further discussion. I am sure this post will get taken down as it will be taken as I am preaching another faith. All I am doing is laying out the Catholic faith and what I believe as is needed. I bid you all good day and God Bless.

 

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen

 

or

 

In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy spirit.

 

p.s. if you wish to continue further conversations you will beable to find me on this forum under the same screen name. http://forums.catholic.com/index.php

 

I also left my pm's on for this sight.

 

 

Trinity, in Christian doctrine, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead.

 

Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Hebrew Scriptures: “Hear, O israel: The Lord our God is one Lord” (Deuteronomy 6:4). The earliest Christians, however, had to cope with the implications of the coming of Jesus Christ and of the presumed presence and power of God among them—i.e., the Holy Spirit, whose coming was connected with the celebration of the Pentecost. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were associated in such New Testament passages as the Great

Commission: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19); and in the apostolic benediction: “The grace ...(150 of 487 words

 

 

 

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