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Andalusi,

 

Welcome to the first difference between Christianity and Islam. As I'm no theologian just a catholic layman, I can only teach what little I know. Sin specifically original sin plays a big part in catholism whereas it is minor in Islam. For that reason some of what I say may make sense to you and some won't. Baptism instituted by Christ Jesus wipes out original sin and opens our way to belief in Christ Jesus and ultimately our salvation. As you have never been baptized nor felt the need to be as it's not called for in Islam I can understand.

 

 

Peace be with you.

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Andalusi,

 

Welcome to the first difference between Christianity and Islam. As I'm no theologian just a catholic layman, I can only teach what little I know. Sin specifically original sin plays a big part in catholism whereas it is minor in Islam. For that reason some of what I say may make sense to you and some won't. Baptism instituted by Christ Jesus wipes out original sin and opens our way to belief in Christ Jesus and ultimately our salvation. As you have never been baptized nor felt the need to be as it's not called for in Islam I can understand.

 

 

Peace be with you.

 

i asked you

 

did jesus confirmed that?

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andalusi , since you are such a " Christian bible expert ", so quick to  quote the Christian verse , and tell Christians what they mean ..............   you go find the verse yourself .

  It should be easy for you , no ?

 

 

 

p.s. and as far as you "not seeing the logic " , you can't even see the logic in salvation through Jesus , so in reality , nothing else in the Christian book matters to you .

Edited by Aligarr

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Andalusi you are barking up the wrong tree here.  See Aligarr thinks it doesn't matter and that no one is ever a true Christian if they left Christianity.  Of course, no amount of evidence is going to matter to him because he does not base his processes on historical and Biblical fact but church doctrine that he has been brought up in.  The most humorous side of it all is he thinks that despite the differences between Protestant and Catholic everyone is going to heaven.  What he fells to realize is that Catholics do not believe this.  The Catholic church, in fact, teaches that Catholicism is the correct way and to divert away from the church is to deny that which was originally established through the first pope that they claim was the disciple Peter.  In order to show their right to apostlistic tradition they go back to a verse where Jesus (pbuh) tells Peter that he shall have the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

 

If I were you Andalusi I would stop wasting time with Aligarr.  Gmcbroom will at least listen to you whereas Aligarr will simply continue to spit back rhetoric like he just got done lapdoging Franklin Graham. 

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Good idea faithi , however both  YOU AND ANDALUSI are waisting your time ....with any true Christian , the only ones who will listen to you are those  LIKE YOU ,who do not have the true faith in The Gospel of Jesus . But that is a free choice of your own .

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See what I mean Andalusi?  He does not believe that a Christian can see Islam as the true choice instead of Christianity.  Of course, he has of yet to logically respond to anything and proves with every post what a troll he is.  What I have to wonder at this point is if people like gmcbroom are feeling like the attitude and constant belligerence of Aligarr accurately represents their faith.

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Fathi,

 

You may believe that but it's not true. Truth is Aligarr doesn't both me he is representing the Christian faith as best he can. He's not belligerent to me. I also don't see Islam as the truth, but hey it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Peace be with you.

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I know you don't see it as the truth. I didn't say you had a problem with it although I did wonder it because I know my relatives would be disgusted by it including my in-laws who are mostly Catholic across the board.  See the Christianity I knew would say that someone acting in the manner he is, is in fact not being very "Christian".  Regardless of how one feels about my faith, approaching people in the manner he is will never win anyone over.

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Good idea faithi , however both YOU AND ANDALUSI are waisting your time .... .

For muslims, calling/da'wah is a worship.

As long as we do it in the proper way, it is not a waisting of time.

Only Allah who could make someone to be a believer.

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faithi , I am not here to "win " you . YOU are here to REFUTE Christianity . What you have offered so far ,is to show how much you don't understand it [ and probably never did ] Andalusi fares no better .

 

 I simply point that out . And you don't like that . 

 

I have not uttered one word criticizing Islam or your choice to convert to Islam , I criticize your erroneous refutes , which clearly indicate you don't understand what you're talking about . Nor does andalusi .

 

 

Like any religion , people are born into it , and that doesn't neccessariy mean they believe . I know many catholics who are not true believers . Just like you were .

Edited by Aligarr

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True,

Andalusi and Aligarr both can be rough around the edges. Still, the cross is foolishness to those that don't believe. Aligarr believes and Andalusi does not. He thinks it's crazy to be a Christian because to him it doesn't make sense.

 

Peace be with you.

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See what I mean Andalusi?  He does not believe that a Christian can see Islam as the true choice instead of Christianity.  Of course, he has of yet to logically respond to anything and proves with every post what a troll he is.  What I have to wonder at this point is if people like gmcbroom are feeling like the attitude and constant belligerence of Aligarr accurately represents their faith.

 

yes i know, you are right.

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True,

Andalusi and Aligarr both can be rough around the edges. Still, the cross is foolishness to those that don't believe. Aligarr believes and Andalusi does not. He thinks it's crazy to be a Christian because to him it doesn't make sense.

 

Peace be with you.

 

of course it does not make sence to put 1+1+1=1

 

and of of these 3 pray to eachother even though they are same, and not only that father kills his son so he could take sins of the humans for their salvation even though people before jesus went to heaven.

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of course it does not make sence to put 1+1+1=1

 

and of of these 3 pray to eachother even though they are same, and not only that father kills his son so he could take sins of the humans for their salvation even though people before jesus went to heaven.

No father killed any son. Just accept your need for logic won't enable you to understand it. Don't worry yourself about the beliefs of others. :)

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No father killed any son. Just accept your need for logic won't enable you to understand it. Don't worry yourself about the beliefs of others. :)

 

John 3:16  For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

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gmcbroom , that is a moot point .  However , if  one chooses to refute , there is no need to  take verses out of context and attach their own highly agendized , preconceived or instructed meanings to them . This is called exegesis . Enough fanatic Christian cults do that . Lets stick to the accepted translation and interpretation . Indeed anyone reading the full text would never come to such conclusions.

 

 

 Example :   regarding Paul being blinded  then 'the scales falling away "-   so in order to make a point they are likened to a "serpent " which serves the convoluted claim that Paul was preaching a gospel of satan . And then using a verse from Luke where it is said Satan was brought down like "lightning " , and again using that to be an analogy of the lightning that struck Paul from his horse .   This goes beyond ignorance .

 

Whether or not either Andalusi or faithi believe is neither my concern nor responsibility , but if they are attempting a refute of Christianity, it should be kept within the realm of an informed , intelligent  and NON-MOCKING manner .  They are both so uninformed , it makes one believe that their incredulous statements are made purposely .

 

BTW , I have not emphasized my belief , I simply state what I have read and studied by reading the Jewish , Christian , and Islamic books . And THAT , to  such a degree where it becomes obvious when someone attempts to misquote , misinterpret and take verses out of context . And that is EXACTLY what faithi and Andalusi are doing , in addition to attaching their own self serving meanings to what they misquote .  

 

  I do not " sugar coat " my replies because I know I am not dealing with little children , so I may seem abrupt .

Edited by Aligarr

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MY VERSION OF 60 questions that invalidates the religion of christianity

Jesus
1.How can satan say to jesus that bow down and worship me and i will give you everything(Mt 4 : 9) when everything belongs to jesus(if he is god) as he himself said that all power is given to him of heavens and earth(Matthew 28 : 18).  (read p 2)

2. Satan also tempts Adam n eve in genesis  and if satan is so powerful and capable of tempting jesus the Christian god himself  as stated above then why should adam n eve be blamed  for the downfall of mankind who dint even had the knowledge of what is right or wrong . Read from Gen 3 : 1

3. Christians say that jesus was the son of god. proof  is there in the bible (if it compared with in the context of psalm 82 : 6 and LUKE 3 : 38 John 8 : 41 then everybody are sons of god) and as well as god the son. The phrase God the Son(of trinity) does not even exists in the entire bible so from where does Christians got this theory or term from.

4. It is  ridiculous that Christians to prove the superiority n divinity of jesus boast  that Moses and Mohammed (pbut) are dead and buried but jesus is alive and is in the heavens . If that proves the divinity than even Elijah should be considered divine as even he raised the dead (1 Kings 17 : 17 to 22 ) and was also raised to heavens in  2 kings 2 : 11  and Also  Jesus said that even he did miracles through the will of God Luke 11 : 20

5.If Jesus was a jew or if jews are chosen sons of God then why did he said that jews are the sons of satan. John 8 : 44  You are of your father the devil  and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning.Is God of the Bible a satan according to Jesus or is he is cursing himself if he   is god.Though it should not be taken literally but this certainly proves that Jesus himself admitted that jews were no longer the chosen people of God but still today Zionist Christians and many Christians believe that they are indeed the chosen people of God. As we can see in question 1 . that jesus answered to the temptation of devil of worshipping him by saying  You shall worship the Lord your God. and Him only you shall serve  (Luke 4 : cool.gif  If he really  is a god  he shud have said that  u must worship  me alone.

6.If only miracles prove divinity then Moses Joshua and Ezekiel should also be considered more divine then jesus
a.Moses turned wooden staff(plant kingdom) into a snake(animal kingdom)Ex7 : 9
b.Joshua stopped the sun(a global event) in Joshua 10 : 13
c.Ezekiel from dry bones raised the dead in Ezekiel 37 : 1 to 14
Again everybody must know the even jesus said that he did miracles through the help of God Luke 11 : 20

7.If not having human father proves divinity then adam should be considered more divine than jesus as he did not have a human father and a mother.  If that is not enough then this high preist of Salem  Melchizedek  mentioned in  Heb 7 : 1 describes as having  without  father without mother and without beginning of days and end of life is   also mentioned in Gen 14 : 18 Psalm 110 : 4. So Christians  whyn what makes jesus so unique that u worship him.

8.How then can man be justified with God  Or how can he be clean that is born of a women?(Job 25 : 4)Didnt jesus also had his own share of original sin after all he was also born of a woman.Also read John 8 : 7  Where he says the first to stone the adultress should be the one who is without sin. He could have also stonned her  as even he obeyed(Read Q 17) and also commanded to obey law of moses MT 5 : 18 and 19.

9.If Jesus came to die for the sins of mankind then What about those who came before Jesus. And what about millions of gentiles to whom did not sent any prophets or gave some scriptures like the jews claim that prophets and scriptures is their monopoly.Also read Q 19

10. The bible says in Numbers 23 : 19 God is not a man that he should lie neither the son of man  that he should repent.  Then why do Christians believe that jesus (on which bible itself says that he was both man as wells as a son of man Read 53) is God.

Salvation

11.Imagine to compensate for The sins of mankind(including all the sinners from adam or at least jesus to the last man until judgement day) the punishment is just death by crucifixion which was a capital  punishment handed out by pagan Romans to criminals at that time. It should have been like a punishment handed to all the satans who will tempt mankind to sin from Jesus orAdam to the last man. (Also read Q 55)

12.If The punishment was just to compensate for the original sin of Adam (which he not even committed as the whole blame is on eve in Genesis 3 : 6 and 12 to 15) then  God was too harsh and unjust because just  eat some forbidden fruit doesnt merits such punishment for which he must be thrown out of heaven. Also God should not blame just adam and eve as he himself created the cunning serpent  to fool adam and eve to eat the forbidden fruit.

13.According to Christianity(but not all sects) we will go to hell if we were not baptized after our birth. Will an innocent baby go to hell just because he or she was not baptized  inspite of the fact that they were born in a christian family. What about the non christian children. Will they also go to hell. Contrast this with Islam where God says that a child who dies will go to heaven and it doesnt matters if he or she is born into a non muslim family or even if he or she was the child of the greatest enemy of Islam.

14.If we attain salvation by accepting jesus as lord only then why jesus told to hold on the law to attain salvation (mark 10 : 17 to 19).

15.If Jesus came to abolish and end the laws and establish a new covenant then why did he commanded to observe the laws and why did he said that  and The law is to remain in effect until heaven and earth pass away (MT 5 : 18 to 19)

16. It is ironic that Jesus never emphasized the theory of  Grace and that he came to establish a new covenant which just require that you should believe that he will die for your sins and u will be saved . In his entire ministry he never mentioned that even once and if  salvation was so simple to explain then jesus was liable to have at least mentioned it once but we see that only the opposite is true. As the words of Jesus are taken for granted so he must be accounted for that if all Christians will not be saved (Also Read P26 and P27)

17.Jesus commanded prayer and fasting and he himself prayed and fasted(Matthew 17 : 21). To attain salvation in heaven is necessary to obey laws (Mark 12 : 29)  but paul says we are justified by faith (romans 5 : 1) and our works are like filthy rags by quoting Isaiah 64 : 6. May be he wanted to emphasize that only the mercy of God (Read P 21) can save us which is misinterpreted and misunderstood by christians.

God

18.Can a satan tempt God (James 1 : 13) NO  Jesus was tempted (Matthew 4 : 1) Yes only sinners and wicked ones get tempted (james 1 : 14).

19. Why was God waiting for Jesus for so many years for sacrificing him. He could have done it before or we may say immediately after adams downfall so that everybody could have been saved by believing that he died for their sins why he waited for so many years. Doesnt this means that god is unjust and that he did partiality with all those who came and died (especially the gentiles) before jesus.Compare this with Islam which says in Quran 16 : 36  We have sent a messenger to every community saying You shall worship GOD(alone)  and shun false gods.

20. If God knew that humans were weak and will be unable to hold on with the law then why did he gave the laws (torah) that were so difficult to follow (according to Christians or paul)why didnt he established a new covenant of grace before that by sending jesus in the beginning or immediately after Adam. Was God learning through trial and error. Also why did he burdened he chosen people by giving them the laws which were so difficult to obey  as per paul Galatians 3 : 13.

21. To whom God did sacrifice his son when he can do everything. Abraham sacrifice because he loved and obeyed God.  Is the Christian god following some rule which even he cannot violate(without shedding blood there is no remission of sins hebrews 9 : 22) God could forgive(if he is really a forgiving one limitless in His mercy as per bible too (2 Sam 24 : 14 Psalms 86 : 5  Psalms 14 5 : 9  Luke 6 : 36 Eph 2 : 4) easily without shedding any blood. Contrast this with Islam where God will forgive even if you commited Shirk (Arabic term for associating partners with God or denying His Oneness) The greatest sin in Islam but that ofcourse should be before your death and an intention that you will not repeat it.

22. How can Jesus be a god in flesh when the bible says heavens and earth cannot contain God. 1 Kings 8 : 27  But will God indeed dwell on the earth Behold heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You.

The sects

23.If bible is a perfect word of God. Yes then which version. protestants (66 books) or.Catholics (73 books).  24.Protestants came approx 1500 years after catholics and they claim that catholics are not Christians but idolaters heretics anti Christs etc etc and they are on right path.  I want to ask Christians if protestants are correct was God deceiving Christians (catholics) for 1500 years and if catholics are right then what about millions of Christians who r protestants.

25.If the only criterion to attain salvation according to Christians is Accepting Jesus as our Lord and Saviour and that he came to die for our sins then why there are 100+ denominations in Christianity and each of them labeling   other as heretical and deviated.

26. If catholics worship mary and commit  blasphemy (according to protestants) then how could their accepting jesus as lord and savior going to help them.

27. The Christian are divided into various sects and most of the sects are divided into theological aspect.
a.catholics(idolators).
b. Protestants (removed 7 books from bible )
c.Unitarians  (Jesus is son of god and a prophet but NOT GOD himself)
d. jehovah witness(trinity deniers).

Trinity

28.If jesus is 1 of a 3 as per the dogma of trinity then how he can have an incestual relationship with his own mother. As according to doctrine of trinity holy spirit god the father and jesus(god the son) are same then holy spirit(god) entered mary and she begotted jesus(god). Luke 1 : 35 And the angel answered and said unto her The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee .It may seem ridiculous to many but tell me what does the word OVERSHADOW mean(as mormons say it indeed does means sex) if it does not means sex then what does it means.

29. Why did Jesus never emphasized the trinity in his entire ministry and if he indeed did that then why did Paul never quoted that jesus  spoke about it. If trinity indeed exists then why it was not emphasized before jesus or was God deceiving his chosen people  the jews  who will be doomed as the dont believe in trinity.

30.Why the only verse mentioning trinity in 1 John 5 : 7 was dropped from The 1952 RSV English translation of bible stating that there is no such verse in the original manuscripts and it has been inserted and concocted.Trinity also contradicts the teachings of jesus which says   You shall worship the Lord your God. and Him only you shall serve (Luke 4 : cool.gif

31. Isnt father(1)  son(1)  spirit (1) equals 1 an erroneous logic and even mathematically incorrect. some christians answer this question by saying it is not 1 plus 1 plus 1 it is actually 1x1x1 equals 1 . Ok good smart answer .But this not  just about maths or just plain logic. So should it be taken literally.God of bible to moses says in Ex 7 : 1 And the LORD said unto Moses. See I have made thee a god to Pharaoh and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. So in other words  Gen 2 : 24 also says that woman and man shall be one not to be taken literally but he meant that they should marry and become one. If not then does it meant  twinity  ridiculous. Was God even here was also 3 in 1 The only one God  in heaven  Moses as had some problem in speaking  hence he communicated with Aaron who spoke for him.So tell me is trinity also emphasized here.If yes then why dont jews believe in trinity today and moses as a God.

32.If according to doctrine of trinity jesus father and holy spirit are same then why did Jesus said  My Father is greater than I in Gospel of John 14 : 28.  Some Christian answer this by saying that god the father is above him not greater in the sense of status. But this verse which I am going to quote will confuse or  hurt them even much.Luke 18 : 19  Why do you call me good Jesus answered No one is good except God alone. So it is clear now that jesus denied being equal in status with God too . Some apologist answer this that  jesus indeed claimed to be God by questioning the person who called him good as to why he called him good by knowing that God alone was  good  In other words according to them jesus was god or claim to be god. These verses of bible will confuse such claim even more of Acts 3 : 13 and 26 and Acts 2 : 22 Mark 2 : 10 where he is called servent of God man and son of Man ( Read P53).If he is man or servant of God he cannot be a God or if he is God he cannot be a man.

Word of God

33.The bible is still incomplete as jesus started his ministry around 32 35  years of age(according to Christians) but what about the preaching which he did before his ministry as the bible mentions he was very wise from his childhood(Luke 2 : 46). Was that lost or just that bible is incomplete  or much of their gods word is lost.

34.Why there were so many canons of the bible(word of God) before the first first council of Nicaea 325 CE ?Which canons or bible did Christians followed during this 300 years before the council of Nicaea?

35. Which  gospel  did Jesus  preached (Mark 16 : 15 Mathew 4 : 23) This is exactly the gospel which Islam says about in Quran 3 : 48 (Also Read Q 57)

36.Why the gospels are written in a language which jesus did not even spoke as jesus said he was sent to the lost sheep of israel Mt 15 : 24 then surely he must have spoken in a language which was familiar to jews which was Aramaic or Hebrew and certainly not greek  in which most of the NT part is written this proves  that the gospels were written much later by unknown people and How can we trust a gospel which was not even written by jesus disciple that is mark and luke.

37. Why the authors of all the books of the bible are so ambiguous and unknown. Eg If Torah or first 5 books  of OT were given to moses then  no doubt this is a false claim as in the end of  Torah  it is written in Deuternomy 34 : 10 that  Since then no prophet has risen in israel like Moses whom the LORD knew face to face. How can torah or Moses tell things which had not even  occurred or was he praising himself .Also in NT there is no proof that it was written by the authors of gospel Matthew who is considered to be the twelve apostle and also the author of gospel  of  matthew  certainly did not write it  proof (NIV  Matthew 26 : 56)  .Then all the disciples deserted him and fled .  If matthew was really the author of gospel of matthew and 1 of his 12 disciple he would have written we all deserted him and fled. Also how could he have written things that occurred after he fled eg  from Matthew 26 : 57 onwards.

38. How can humans decide what is the word of God(canons) and what is not example Constantine 1 and martin Luther or may be somebody else by biblicist. Some Christians may say the holy spirit was responsible for the compiliation of canons So what took the holy spirit 1400 to 1500 CE years to recompile the canons of the Old testament through martin luther.

39. Bible says if anybody remove  or add word of god(Rev 22 from 18 to 19) he will be cursed or  doomed to hell. As we know protestants and catholics  have different canons or bibles. So who is doomed to hell inspite of accepting jesus as lord savior and believing that he died for their sins  Romans 10 : 9.

40. What proof is there that the bible which we have today is the same as at the time of Jesus as the oldest known complete bible manuscript is just 1000 years old which is 1000 years after jesus  Aleppo Codex. Which manuscript were Christians following during this period of 1000 years.

Paul

41.Who was Paul  not to be taken literally and why did Jesus chose him instead of his handpicked disciples. What was so unique or special about him.

42. What proof had paul given to prove that he was a apostle  and how can Christians consider his letters or epistle  as a word of God. Also  he contradicted jesus in many ways example to  Jesus told to obey law (Matthew 5 : 18 to 19) but Paul regarded laws as curse in Galatians 3 : 13.

43. How can Christians trust a man(paul) who himself admitted to being crafty and deceptive 2CO 12 : 16 (like serpent Gen 3 : 1) which is proven by his philosophies (Read from P 42  and P 45 to P50) which contradicts itself and message of jesus.

44. Why would jesus chose somebody who was a self admitted Christian persecutor (1 Cor 15 : 9) and from the same group who crucified jesusas per the bible to a Pharisee (Acts 23 : 6).If jesus  wanted to show his miracle by showing  how he can change the hearts of  wicked people (paul read p43) then he may have chosen somebody who were mainly responsible for  jesus crucifixion as their conversion may have surprised others and may have acted like a miracle by others and inspired them to convert to his religion.

45. In Mt 28 : 19 jesus instructs his followers to baptize but why paul who considered himself a disciple of jesus did not baptize(1CO 1 : 17)

46. In Romans 2 : 13 paul says Doers of the law will be justified but again in Rom. 3 : 20 and Gal 3 : 11 paul says they will not be justified.

47.Jesus said be my followers (John 8 : 31) but paul said follow me indirectly saying to follow him not jesus 1 Corinthians 11 : 1)

48.Genesis 17 : 14 mentions that who rejects circumcision will be cut off and even jesus was circumcised (Luke 2 : 21) and said those who reject it will be least in the kingdom (Matthew 5 : 19) but so why did paul rejected circumcision (Galatians 5 : 6)ironically even he was circumcised as he was a jew.

49.In Matthew 15 : 24 Jesus said that he is a prophet sent only to jews and not gentiles but in Romans 11 : 13  paul said he is sent as a messenger to gentiles too thereby contradicting  jesus and making himself greater than jesus

50. It says in Hebrews 9 : 22 without shedding blood there is no remission of sins but In James  2 : 24  it is written that we are justified by works and not by faith alone  Faith without works is dead also  James 2 : 26.

Miscellaneous

51.In Leviticus 10 : 9 Wine is clearly forbidden but in the gospels we see that jesus performs his first miracle by turning water to wine. Why would jesus do this as he himself practiced and commanded to obey the laws  (Mt 5 : 17 to 19)

52. Jesus called everybody who came before him thieves and robbers in John 10 : 8 All who came before Me are thieves and robbers. Did he mean that all the prophets from Abraham to John were thieves and robbers not excluding his mother.  If  Christians say that it should shoud not be taken literally I request them to read it in context from John 10 : 1 to 8

53.I wonder how much confused a Christian mind is and how absurd the religion of Christianity is
a.jesus is God  yes(John 1 : 1)
b.jesus is a servant of God   Yes (Acts 3 : 13 and 26)     
c.jesus is a Man yes(Acts 2 : 22)
d.jesus is son of man  Yes (Mark 2 : 10)
e.jesus is a jew yes (Revelation 5 : 5 Mark 1 : 35)
f.jesus is a prophet yes(Matthew 13 : 57)
g.jesus is Son of God yes(Matthew 3 : 17)
h. jesus is a lamb of God yes(John 1 : 29
i.Jesus is Christ yes (Mark 14 : 62)
j. jesus is god the son yes(No proof yet)

54.Shouldnt we conclude that God of the bible is very evil and unjust as he chose to laden the sins of entire humanity on his only so called begotten son jesus. He rather should have punished serpent who was responsible for the original sin as he is omscient.

55. This question or fact is related a bit to question 11. We all know Palestine (today israel) was the colony of romans during the time of jesus and he was falsely  trapped  to get capital punishment by the jews. Capital punishment were also given to many jewish crusaders and nationalist jews who were against pagan romans or  who fought  for the freedom from romans at that time in the same manner like jesus.  Even the jews who were crucified with jesus were REBELS (NIV 2011  Mark 15 : 27  other translation falsely labels them as thieves and robbers) or  jewish crusaders or freedom fighters in other words.Jewish Bible or OT commands fighting against pagans in many verses  eg (1 Samuel 15 : 2 to 3 Joshua 6 : 21). Now I want to  ask Christians how can a punishment for original sin(That caused the downfall of mankind) be so minor which was given to jesus  it should have been like  punishment that was not given to anybody before him and will not be given to anybody except him till the day of judgement. Shouldnt we regard that the jewish rebels who knew about the capital punishment but still fought against romans were more brave than jesus who was just fearing crying and weeping (Also Read  Question 60).

56.In Matthew 1 : 1 to 16 and Luke 3 : 23 to 38. Jesus lineage to david  has been traced through his supposed father joseph  gospel writer falsely labels jesus to be a descendant of david to fulfill a prophecy as messiah according to jews will be a son of david.Also  In these two lists consisting of sixty six names there is only one name which is common to both and that is of Joseph the carpenter and why is he mentioned since he was never responsible for the conception of Jesus.

57.Why jesus said to obey OT laws Matthew 5 : 17 to 19 when he himself was observing some laws and some not example Praying and fasting (Mark 9 : 29) but spoke against polygamy (Mark 10 : 11) which abrogated law of moses  in exodus 21 : 10  which allows polygamy. So it confirms the Quran claim that he indeed abrogated some laws of moses as mentioned by the Quran 3 : 50  And (I Jesus have come) confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you.

58.If jesus knew that judas would betray him (Mt26 : 25) then why did he chose him and even commanded judas to betray him (john 13 : 27) and if this was his plan then why did he called judas a satan(John 6 : 70).

59. We read in gospels that jesus used to stay at loggerheads with the Pharisees and scribes(Matthew 23 : 13 and 37 Luke 11 : 37to 54 Mark 12 : 38 to 40 ) but when these same Pharisees and scribes challenged him during his trials (before his alleged crucifixion  (Mt 27 : 42 Mk 15 : 32) why he kept his silence  Mark 14:61. If this was Gods plan to get him sacrificed like this then why did jesus use to attack and cursed them before (read seven woes of Pharisees and scribes in Mt 23) he should have resisted them after all he only taught it in matthew 5 : 39 to Turn thy cheeks and matthew 5 : 44 and  Love your enemies.

60. Christians say  and believe that Jesus came to die for our sins willingly then why he was so hesitating and praying for not getting crucified  Luke 22 : 42. Christian god jesus was certainly a coward to which the bible itself indirectly says  Read John  7 : 1 and 11 : 53 to 54. Also he was crying(John 11 : 35) weeping(John 11 : 35) complaining(Matthew 27 : 46) and praying to be saved(Matthew 26 : 39) and lastly he lost his faith and blamed god for forsaking him(Mt 27 : 46). Nowadays we know and read  that in the name of patriotism nationalism and religion many people would just give away their life willingly and happily while chanting God bless America  God save the queen or Allah hu Akbar (God is greatest) with a smile on their faces.

It is connected a bit to above question  . Also who died for the sins of Job as bible says that he was a perfect and a sinless man  (Job 1 : 1)  he was tested by god who gave him all kinds of hardships. Then no doubt his faith was far more  greater  than the faith of Jesus . Job who suffered all kind of misery never lost faith (1 : 22) and thus he was blessed by God(Job 42 : 12) for this compare this to jesus who said before his alleged death  that God has forsaken him(Mt 27 : 46) which is a sign of faithlessness.It also contradicts when paul says that all had sinned rom 2 : 23.

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Nice cut and paste Andalusi , I 'm sure you don't understand a bit of it . . So for all your standardized refuting Christianity materials , let's cut to the chase .

 What have you to say about Jesus , who said in  John 3 : 15-16   [  READ IT  ] , that is  basically the core of the Christian belief . Forget  all the  "refute routine spiel " you posted above .

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Nice cut and paste Andalusi , I 'm sure you don't understand a bit of it . . So for all your standardized refuting Christianity materials , let's cut to the chase .

 What have you to say about Jesus , who said in  John 3 : 15-16   [  READ IT  ] , that is  basically the core of the Christian belief . Forget  all the  "refute routine spiel " you posted above .

 

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

every muslim believer on earth believes in jesus, while you christians dont believe in christ but Paul, who was the real founder of christianity, not jesus.

 

Jesus tells you obey old laws, Paul says dont do that

 

you follow Paul. that is a fact, a brutal fact, you cant deny it.

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You are ABSOLUTELY WRONG Andalusi . With every statement you make with your cut and pasties , shows you have not read the Christian book , nor do you have even a minimal understanding of it . Paul NEVER preached different Gospel .

 

 Paul was sent by Jesus to bring the Gospel to the Gentile [ Nations ] , and it was not necessary for the Gentiles to observe Jewish Dietary Laws , their Holy Days , or to be circumcised . That was the dispute between Peter and Paul , not the Gospel itself .  Peter was then given a vision to partake in all kinds of food , he was told by God  .

 You have tread nothing and understand nothing of the Christian book , else you would have known that . In addition you would NEVER make such an uninformed statement that you just made .

  

The BRUTAL TRUTH here is , you are not qualified to pose any relevant argument with Christianity , because you  A) have not read it in its entirety  and B ) you understand NONE of it from your cut and pastes .

 

You know nothing of Jewish law neither . And that is because you have not read the Jewish Book in it's entirety . That which you post as " refute " is not based on an learning  or understanding on your part , it is based on what you copy and pasted from wherever you're getting your erroneous information from .

 

Anyone who has read and understood the Christian book would never come to such preposterous conclusions as you have come to . Just more proof that you are merely repeating what you have heard [cut and paste ]  rather than FIRST READING then studying and actually understanding what was said and then  offering a valid argument .

Edited by Aligarr

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You are ABSOLUTELY WRONG Andalusi . With every statement you make with your cut and pasties , shows you have not read the Christian book , nor do you have even a minimal understanding of it . Paul NEVER preached different Gospel .

 

 Paul was sent by Jesus to bring the Gospel to the Gentile [ Nations ] , and it was not necessary for the Gentiles to observe Jewish Dietary Laws , their Holy Days , or to be circumcised . That was the dispute between Peter and Paul , not the Gospel itself .  Peter was then given a vision to partake in all kinds of food , he was told by God  .

 You have tread nothing and understand nothing of the Christian book , else you would have known that . In addition you would NEVER make such an uninformed statement that you just made .

  

The BRUTAL TRUTH here is , you are not qualified to pose any relevant argument with Christianity , because you  A) have not read it in its entirety  and B ) you understand NONE of it from your cut and pastes .

 

You know nothing of Jewish law neither . And that is because you have not read the Jewish Book in it's entirety . That which you post as " refute " is not based on an learning  or understanding on your part , it is based on what you copy and pasted from wherever you're getting your erroneous information from .

 

Anyone who has read and understood the Christian book would never come to such preposterous conclusions as you have come to . Just more proof that you are merely repeating what you have heard [cut and paste ]  rather than FIRST READING then studying and actually understanding what was said and then  offering a valid argument .

 

 

Paul NEVER preached different Gospel .

 

gospel of Christ in wich all muslims believe in

Galatians 1:6-12 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

 

Pauls gospel wich you accept and muslim reject

2 Timothy 2:8 

Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descendant of David, according to my gospel,

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gospel of Christ in wich all muslims believe in

Galatians 1:6-12 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

 

Pauls gospel wich you accept and muslim reject

2 Timothy 2:8 

Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descendant of David, according to my gospel,

Andalusi, please why do you do this to yourself :( I'm confused by this post, what are you claiming? Galations is from Paul's letters, are you using Paul to refute himself??? See the full verse in context you will see Paul is NOT preaching another Gospel, but castigating those who were straying away from the true Gospel, which was revealed to Paul. Are you saying then that muslims accept Galations yet reject Paul? Is that possible to accept the work of a person you reject?

 

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel-- 7 not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed. 10 Am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I should not be a servant of Christ. 11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not man's gospel. 12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

<< Galatians 1:5Galatians 1:6-12Galatians 1:13 >>

 

Paul taught the true Gospel according to Jesus, you can't accept that because it is contrary to what you believe. Paul never had a Gospel of his own. The gospel is what it always was, beyond the words and accounts from the disciples and apostles, the living Gospel that is Jesus transcends all. It's been said before if one accepts the living Gospel that is Christ, then there is no turning from that road, that's truth. Jesus didn't give us a middle road just the one He placed us on. You keep saying that to be Muslim you have to accept Jesus and respect Him, I can't help but wonder who is this "Jesus" you are accepting?

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Again Andalusi , you strive to express your lack of knowledge of the subject .

 The Jews have 613 Laws from the Torah .

 As early as 200 BCE , a gentile was considered righteous if he followed the Noahide Law which consisted of seven commandments . They were later to include Honoring Father and Mother  and Loving your neighbor .

 Jews today who have become believers in Jesus STILL observe the 613 Laws of Torah and have no problem with Christians who do not .

 

 You are so poorly informed of these things it's no wonder you reach the conclusions that you state .

  As for 2 Timothy 2-8 , you should have bothered to read beyond verse 8, and you would clearly see that Timothy was referring to the Gospel of Jesus when he used the words " my gospel " for his gospel was that which Jesus preached .

 Better yet read the whole of Chapter 1 and 2 .

 

Again your out of context cherry picking of verses , indicates that you have not read nor understood what you are quoting .

 

BTW- Muslims do not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and the only means of their salvation - Please show me WHERE  this is stated in the Qu'ran .  Jesus is  revered as a " Prophet " in the Qu'ran .

Edited by Aligarr

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Andalusi, please why do you do this to yourself :( I'm confused by this post, what are you claiming? Galations is from Paul's letters, are you using Paul to refute himself??? See the full verse in context you will see Paul is NOT preaching another Gospel, but castigating those who were straying away from the true Gospel, which was revealed to Paul. Are you saying then that muslims accept Galations yet reject Paul? Is that possible to accept the work of a person you reject?

 

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel-- 7 not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed. 10 Am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I should not be a servant of Christ. 11 For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not man's gospel. 12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

<< Galatians 1:5Galatians 1:6-12Galatians 1:13 >>

 

Paul taught the true Gospel according to Jesus, you can't accept that because it is contrary to what you believe. Paul never had a Gospel of his own. The gospel is what it always was, beyond the words and accounts from the disciples and apostles, the living Gospel that is Jesus transcends all. It's been said before if one accepts the living Gospel that is Christ, then there is no turning from that road, that's truth. Jesus didn't give us a middle road just the one He placed us on. You keep saying that to be Muslim you have to accept Jesus and respect Him, I can't help but wonder who is this "Jesus" you are accepting?

 

 

here is a tricky question for you

 

if gospel of paul is same gospel of jesus, then why did Paul had different beleif system than jesus himself?

 

cant you see the contrdiction in your and pauls belief.

 

Jesus say you shall follow old laws, Pauls says no, you shall not do it.

 

what Paul did is by changing old laws of moses he automatically created new relgion wich is christianity.

 

God tells you you shall circumsize young boys, jesus was circumsized, even Paul himself probably beacuse he was jew, and he says , no you dont need to circumsize

 

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?" (Rom. 3.7)

 

he admitted that he lied to you, but you still believe in Pauls lies than jesus truth. how deluded are you christians???????????????

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YOU are calling Christians deluded ?  WHAT A BIGOTED AND DISRESPECTFUL REMARK !  What if someone were to say that about your religion ? 

 

 Your frustration is turning to anger now,  eh Andalusi  ? You who understands NOTHING of Christianity are going to judge Christians ?

 

 Who are you kidding ? Yourself ?   Your own insecurities ate coming to the surface .  And BTW , you didn't answer -WHERE in the Qu'ran does it state that Muslims look upon Jesus as their Lord and Savior and the only way to salvation ? 

 

 

 Keep looking , because THAT is not in the Qu'ran , so you hide your  misinformation  being exposed , by lashing out with INSULT .

 

There is no contradiction between the Gospel Paul taught . You don't know how to pay attention to what is being said to you ,[ or you just ignore it ] all you hear is your own mocking angry voice .

 

 

You have no idea of Jesus' truth , it eludes you . You reject his gospel .

 

You are in no position to refute OR debate Christianity . You lack the knowledge and you have  a bad attitude . And you have just spouted the words of a bigot by saying -

 

  " how deluded are you Christians  "

 

It also indicates your disrespect for Christians .

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