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It makes perfect sense why we need a saviour and why Jesus came.

 

Actually it proves how illogical Islam is; Allah forgives you of sin without the proper atonement due for sin. Your god is not a just god although you claim him to be which is a clear contradiction...that’s illogical my friend.

 

 

It makes perfect sense why we need a saviour and why Jesus came.

 

is jesus God according to you ? if yes, then how can God opray to anotehr God, how can God have no powers, not knowing everything, and have another god? beacuse jesus had his own God, so if jesus is god, and jesus said i go to my father and my God, then there are 2 gods. and jesus said there is only 1 god.so your worng interpretation put you in difficult illogical situation.

 

 

Allah forgives you of sin without the proper atonement due for sin.

 

not true, you need to repent to God for your sins so he shall forgive it to you. and you need to stay away from bad deeds, and start do good deeds to, then you can hope for his forgivness.

 

 

 

Your god is not a just god although you claim him to be which is a clear contradiction...that’s illogical my friend

 

so you interpretation of God is better than Islamic, you say God punished jesus who had no sins on the cross for your sins, while God in quran say that he only forgive those people who repent to him sincerly.

 

so killing innocent person beacuse of you is more logical to you than forgvining people who repent sincerly and change themselves. do you realise how weak your statements are?

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PropellerAds

is jesus God according to you ? if yes, then how can God opray to anotehr God, how can God have no powers, not knowing everything, and have another god? beacuse jesus had his own God, so if jesus is god, and jesus said i go to my father and my God, then there are 2 gods. and jesus said there is only 1 god.so your worng interpretation put you in difficult illogical situation.

 

Easy – God the son permitted to have powers limited to what is necessary for our salvation in His human nature while maintaining the integrity His divine nature. One God assumed a human nature. If your god can’t do this then that’s another flaw in Islamic theology.

 

 

not true, you need to repent to God for your sins so he shall forgive it to you. and you need to stay away from bad deeds, and start do good deeds to, then you can hope for his forgivness.

 

Your finite repentance is inadequate to the infinite atonement required. You see how your answer has flaws just like every other Muslim I’ve asked regarding this...

 

 

so you interpretation of God is better than Islamic, you say God punished jesus who had no sins on the cross for your sins, while God in quran say that he only forgive those people who repent to him sincerly.

 

so killing innocent person beacuse of you is more logical to you than forgvining people who repent sincerly and change themselves. do you realise how weak your statements are?

 

That’s the beauty of Christianity, Jesus did it of His own free will. That’s love, you guys don’t know what love is until you meditate on the passion, death and resurrection of Christ.

Edited by CarlosTheJackal

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Easy – God the son permitted to have powers limited to what is necessary for our salvation in His human nature while maintaining the integrity His divine nature. One God assumed a human nature. If your god can’t do this then that’s another flaw in Islamic theology.

 

 

 

 

Your finite repentance is inadequate to the infinite atonement required. You see how your answer has flaws just like every other Muslim I’ve asked regarding this...

 

 

 

 

That’s the beauty of Christianity, Jesus did it of His own free will. That’s love, you guys don’t know what love is until you meditate on the passion, death and resurrection of Christ.

 

 

Easy – God the son permitted to have powers limited to what is necessary for our salvation in His human nature while maintaining the integrity His divine nature. One God assumed a human nature. If your god can’t do this then that’s another flaw in Islamic theology.

 

God the son :D , and the n we continue God the father = 2 Gods, bravo.man, why do you like to talk much without evidence?? you need proof like i post proof for everything i say here.

 

 

Your finite repentance is inadequate to the infinite atonement required. You see how your answer has flaws just like every other Muslim I’ve asked regarding this...

 

and for you it is adequate to kill innocent person to forgive sins of criminals and other people :no: amazing.

 

 

That’s the beauty of Christianity, Jesus did it of His own free will. That’s love, you guys don’t know what love is until you meditate on the passion, death and resurrection of Christ.

 

why do you lie to us man, why why why?????? :no:

 

let see what jesus say about that, where do you see free will here

 

<< Luke 22:42 >>

"Father, if you are willing, please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine."

 

<< Hebrews 5:7 >>

During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

 

jesus say it is not mine will and you say Jesus did it of His own free will.

 

this only proves that you dont know your bible son, you talk to much without eveidence, from your own wishfull thinking.

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CarlosThe Jackal

 

do you believe that God is barber who shaves hair on people's legs, and he rides little baby girl angels(Cherubs) to transport himself like helicopter?

 

yes or no?

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The Christian faith is deleted?

 

Dr. Adel Elsaie

 

King James Version

 

In 1604 King James I commissioned a new revision of the English Bible; it was completed in 1611. Following Tyndale primarily, this Authorized Version, also known as the King James Version, was widely acclaimed for its beauty and simplicity of style. In the years that followed, the Authorized Version underwent several revisions, the most notable being the English Revised Version (1881-85), the American Standard Version (1901), and the revision of the American Standard Version undertaken by the International Council of Religious Education, representing 40 Protestant denominations in the US and Canada. This Revised Standard Version (RSV) appeared between 1946 and 1952. Widely accepted by Orthodox, Protestant, and Roman Catholic Christians, it provided the basis for the first accepted English Bible. In the Preface of the RSV, 1971, the following is written:

 

The King James Version has grave defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it manifest, that these defects are so many and so serious as to call for the revision of the English translation.” The preface continued to refer to the unhappy experience with unauthorized publications, “which tampered with the text of the English Revised Version, in the supposed interest of the American public.”

 

According to a 2000 Gallop Poll, 4 in 10 Americans have a King James Version, and that is what they read:

 

Trinity

 

There is reference in the New Testament, King James Version, to the trinity, in the First Epistle of John 5:7-8.

King James Version

 

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”

 

The above verses exist only in the authorized King James Version, and form the strongest evidence for the doctrine of trinity. “the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” has been removed in the Revised Standard Version of 1952 and 1971, and many other Bibles. In the New Revised Standard, 1989, those same verses read as follows: “There are three that testify, the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree.” The differences between these recognized Bibles represent a theological crisis. The average Christian, as well as many Christian preachers and ministers may not be aware of the removal of the strongest verses advocating the trinity from their Bible! Any one should ask himself why these verses of the King James Version were deleted from later versions of the New Testament, and how they were introduced in the first place!

The following are the above verses in different Versions of the Bible:

 

American Standard Version

And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.”

New American Standard Bible

For there are three that testify the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.”

Revised Standard Version

And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth. There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree.”

New Revised Standard Version

There are three that testify, the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree.”

 

Reading the same verses from different versions of the Bible can be very confusing and frustrating experience.

 

The only begotten son

 

Again, the word “only begotten” exists only in the Gospel according to John 1:14, only in the King James Version:

 

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth”

 

Interestingly enough, this word “only begotten” does not exist in the Revised Standard Version, New Revised Standard, and other versions.

 

Revised Standard Version

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father”

New Revised Standard Version

“And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father's only son, full of grace and truth”

Good News Translation

“The Word became a human being and, full of grace and truth, lived among us. We saw his glory, the glory which he received as the Father's only Son

New Living Translation

“So the Word became human and lived here on earth among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the only Son of the Father”

 

Consequently, the two basic principles of Christianity, trinity and son of god, exist only in Gospel according to John and in First Epistle of John, only in the King James Version, a version that was described as having grave defects. The average Christian should have the right to ask why did the basics of my Christian faith expunge from later versions of the Bible, and what happened to my faith? These are very serious and crucial questions. Again the question is why this word “begotten”, that is extremely important, was deleted from later Bibles? But this is what Christians are made to believe in the churches without any references to the authenticity of the Gospels or to the different versions of the Bible. However, Christians also know that God has many sons according to the Bible:

 

Genesis 6:2 “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men.”

Exodus 4:22israel is my son, even my firstborn”

Deuteronomy 14:1 “Ye are the children of God.”

Psalms 2:7 “The Lord hath said unto me, (David) Thou art my son: this day have I begotten thee.”

Jeremiah 31:9 “for I (God) am a father to israel, and Ephraim is my first born.”

Luke 3:38 “which (Adam) was the Son of God.”

Romans 8:14 “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”

 

One of the tactics of the anti-Islam Evangelists and “Websiters” is to pick up the verse that advances their purpose from one Version of the Bible. And they totally ignore the same verse from other Versions that contradicts their point. They really show their Mastery in playing the game of half the truth.

 

Muslims say that nowhere in the Bible did Jesus say that he is the son of God. This was the answer of half the truth:

 

Ye, he did, read: Luke 22:70

 

New King James Version

“They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."

 

But they conveniently ignore the same verse in other versions (I wonder why?):

 

King James Version

“Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

 

Revised Standard Version

“And they all said, "Are you the Son of God, then?" And he said to them, "You say that I am."

 

New Revised Standard Version

“All of them asked, "Are you, then, the Son of God?" He said to them, "You say that I am."

 

American Standard Version

“And they all said, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

 

So where in the Bible did Jesus say bluntly that he is The Son of God or even the son of god without the interpretations of half the truth? Some of those half the truth claim that they know better than the authors of RSV, NRSV, American Standard Version, and the rest of versions, perhaps because they know a little bit of Greek. But, who can say that Jesus spoke Greek? He spoke the Aramaic language, and there is no capital S or small s, for son, in this language.

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this is what happens when christian opens his eyes in front of the truth :yes:

 

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not true, it is same God, but your interpretation of God is wrong

 

God of bible and quran is Allah, yahweh means "O He"

 

evidence here

etc etc

 

There you go again!

Look, if you reject the Trinity, then you follow a different God to Christians. Also if you interperate the Bible differently to Christians... guess what? yup, you follow a different God.

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There you go again!

Look, if you reject the Trinity, then you follow a different God to Christians. Also if you interperate the Bible differently to Christians... guess what? yup, you follow a different God.

 

call what you want, but christianity is not monotheistic religion, you have 3 gods in 1 God....you only rape your own intelect with such illogical nonsence.

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do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God? - John 10:36

 

but according to Bible GOds have dozens of sons, adam, jacob, david, jesus...all are sons of God, what does it means son of God, it only mean righteous person...

 

is Jesus the son of God?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQR1aDjvtX4

 

<< Romans 8:14 >>

New Living Translation (©2007)

For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.

 

1 John 3:1-2, "Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! ... Beloved, now we are children of God..."

 

 

Genesis 6:2, "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men..."

 

Job 1:6, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD..."

 

Job 2:1, "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD..."

 

Job 38:7, "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

 

now i am asking what is so special with jesus if we all are children of god? if we are all sons of God?

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There you go again!

Look, if you reject the Trinity, then you follow a different God to Christians. Also if you interperate the Bible differently to Christians... guess what? yup, you follow a different God.

 

 

Nontrinitarianism (or antitrinitarianism) refers to monotheistic belief systems, primarily within Christianity, which reject the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, namely, the teaching that God is three distinct hypostases or persons and yet co-eternal, co-equal, and indivisibly united in one essence or ousia.

According to churches that consider ecumenical council decisions final, trinitarianism was infallibly defined at the First Ecumenical Council (the Council of Nicaea) in 325 A.D.[1] Nontrinitarians disagree with the findings of the Council for various reasons, including the belief that the Bible as they understand it takes precedence over creeds, or that there was a Great Apostasy prior to the Council. Church and state in Europe suppressed nontrinitarian belief as heresy from the 4th to 18th century.[2][3][4][5] Today nontrinitarians represent a small minority of professed Christians.

Nontrinitarian views differ widely on the nature of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Various nontrinitarian views, such as Adoptionism, Monarchianism and Arianism existed prior to the formal definition of the Trinity doctrine in 325, 360, and 431 AD, at the Councils of Nicaea, Constantinople, and Ephesus.[6] Nontrinitarianism was later renewed in the Gnosticism of the Cathars in the 11th through 13th centuries, in the Age of Enlightenment of the 18th century, and in some groups arising during the Second Great Awakening of the 19th century.

Modern nontrinitarian groups or denominations include Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, Dawn Bible Students, Friends General Conference, Iglesia ni Cristo, Members Church of God International, Jehovah's Witnesses, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), La Luz del Mundo, Living Church of God, Oneness Pentecostals, Unitarian Universalist Christians and the United Church of God. Islam has been described as anti-Trinitarian when compared to Christianity, or in books written for a Western audience: Islam teaches the absolute indivisibility of a supremely sovereign and transcendent god (see God in Islam),[7] and is further distinctly antitrinitarian as several verses of the Koran teach that the doctrine of Trinity is blasphemous.[8]

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Trinitarian_churches

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Alright...I am a reasonable man of sound mind who will listen to logic when presented in calm manners without hatred or ugliness. If one of the Christians on here would like to make a list of 10 reasons why they see the Qur'an as wrong my brothers in Islam (insha'Allah) and myself will address said issues in a calm and clear concise way. On the flip side, after said 10 things are addressed I will list 10 things I see wrong with the Bible that taken in the context of Christian believes does not add up and will give any of the Christians on here a chance to reply to it.

 

I know my iman is strong enough to have such a conversation. If my brothers in Islam are up for it and one of the Christians here want to try this then lets have at it.

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1. Most of bible(new teastament) is written after jesus life , maybe around 50 years after jesus, can you imagine how stories are changed after 50 years

2. bible says it is created from stories from people, Luke explained that in the begining of his gospel

3. Contradictions in bible

4. Scientific errors in bible

5. Archeological and historial errors

6. Pornography in bible, incest and prostition

7. Illogical verses contradicting with normal human intelect

8. Making God a fool, example: God is barber shaving people's legs , and rides use little baby angels as transportation (like helicopter)

9. Making fool of jesus, like jesus cursing innocent tree beacuse the tree did not have fruit out of season

10. Most of the bible is written by Paul, who did not have same teachings as jesus, even though christian follow more what paul say than what jesus say, beacuse Paul is creator of christianity, not jesus.

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Thank you brother but we want to let the Christians go first to post their problems with the Qur'an and address said problems as I previously stated. And we should refrain from vague replies like number 7.

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i have studied both bible and quran very well, that i competent to give judgement what is wrong what is right there. i had a debate with a priest 2011 on a forum, a believe me i was dissipointend that he could not answer my questions about bible...

 

when i claim somthing about bible i allways give proof for that, especially from non-islamic sources...i know when i start to speak like christian, i think like this , i think like that..then nobody will take me as serious person.

 

Islam is only right religion in the world today, Islam was relgion of all prophet, and vene jesus himself. he was also muslim like we, but christians dont know that. Muslim means a person who submits his will to God.

 

God also say in quran that he only accept Islam from people, nothing else. When christians realise that we muslims are not their enemies, and that we also believe in jesus, but not like they do. Islam is only faith in the world wich includes believing in jesus, no other relgion beside christianity and Islam.

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To the Christians reading this. My invitation still stands. Please ignore the comments from my brother above. He has the best of intentions but cultural misunderstandings are going to happen from time to time. We all get ahead of ourselves sometimes.

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andalusi

this proves why christianity is not the true relgion, why it is illogical and it is not fair.

 

why should we be born with sin beacuse Adam and eve ate the fruit? did they asked us before they ate it? NO, so how can sin be upon us? this is great, that you show to people how weak and illogical christian belief is. According to Islam, every child is born without sin.

 

 

 

 

this is not true according to your bible and jesus

 

proof

 

 

 

 

Read Matthew 19:14 for proof that the children are born without

sin.

Matthew 19:14 Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

 

This is where it is criticly important to use a proper translation. Now from a proper translation of the verse you sighted [13] Then were little children presented to him, that he should impose hands upon them and pray. And the disciples rebuked them. [14] But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such. [15] And when he had imposed hands upon them, he departed from thence.

 

Now that we have the context of the verse you lay claim to for your proof. Lets look at its meaning.

 

Ver. 14. Jesus said ... Suffer the little children, &c. He here blames the conduct of the apostles, and shews that his assertions in praise of virginity, were not meant as derogatory from the holiness of the marriage state, by giving his blessing to these little ones, the fruits of lawful wedlock; and declares that the kingdom of heaven is the portion of such as resemble these little ones, by the innocence of their lives and simplicity of their hearts. He, moreover, shews that confidence in our own strength, in our own free-will, and in our merits, is an invincible obstacle to salvation. St. Mark (x. 16) says, that embracing them, and laying hands upon them, he blessed them. Hence probably arose the ancient custom of presenting children to bishops and priests, to receive their blessing, beside that of confirmation immediately after baptism. --- Nicephorus tells us that the celebrated St. Ignatius, afterwards bishop of Antioch, was one of these children who, on this occasion, received Christ's blessing. --- If we would enter into the kingdom of heaven, we must imitate the virtues of little children. Their souls are free from every passion; void of every thought of revenge, they approach those who have grieved them as to their best friends. Though the parent repeatedly chastise his child, it still will adhere to him, still will it love him, and prefer him in all his poverty to all the fascinating charms of dazzling gold and purple. They seek not beyond what is necessary, they admire not the beauty of the body, they are not grieved at the loss of worldly wealth, therefore does the Saviour of the world say, that theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (St. Chrysostom, hom. lxiii.)

 

 

this proofs that you christian cant even interpretate your own holy book, jesus say children go to Paradise, in other words they have no sins, and there is no orginal sin like you claim. but as i said before, you like to complicate your relgion and make it illogical. you know what, that is good for us that you complicate your own relgion so much then when people see how logical Islam is, they will come to Islam instead of following book where God is a barber who shaves people's legs and rides little baby girl angels like helicopter.

 

This has been adressed befor and I will not adress it again.

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The Christian faith is deleted?

 

 

Dr. Adel Elsaie

 

King James Version

 

In 1604 King James I commissioned a new revision of the English Bible; it was completed in 1611. Following Tyndale primarily, this Authorized Version, also known as the King James Version, was widely acclaimed for its beauty and simplicity of style. In the years that followed, the Authorized Version underwent several revisions, the most notable being the English Revised Version (1881-85), the American Standard Version (1901), and the revision of the American Standard Version undertaken by the International Council of Religious Education, representing 40 Protestant denominations in the US and Canada. This Revised Standard Version (RSV) appeared between 1946 and 1952. Widely accepted by Orthodox, Protestant, and Roman Catholic Christians, it provided the basis for the first accepted English Bible. In the Preface of the RSV, 1971, the following is written:

 

The King James Version has grave defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it manifest, that these defects are so many and so serious as to call for the revision of the English translation.” The preface continued to refer to the unhappy experience with unauthorized publications, “which tampered with the text of the English Revised Version, in the supposed interest of the American public.”

 

According to a 2000 Gallop Poll, 4 in 10 Americans have a King James Version, and that is what they read:

 

 

Trinity

 

There is reference in the New Testament, King James Version, to the trinity, in the First Epistle of John 5:7-8.

King James Version

 

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”

 

The above verses exist only in the authorized King James Version, and form the strongest evidence for the doctrine of trinity. “the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one” has been removed in the Revised Standard Version of 1952 and 1971, and many other Bibles. In the New Revised Standard, 1989, those same verses read as follows: “There are three that testify, the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree.” The differences between these recognized Bibles represent a theological crisis. The average Christian, as well as many Christian preachers and ministers may not be aware of the removal of the strongest verses advocating the trinity from their Bible! Any one should ask himself why these verses of the King James Version were deleted from later versions of the New Testament, and how they were introduced in the first place!

The following are the above verses in different Versions of the Bible:

 

American Standard Version

And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.”

New American Standard Bible

For there are three that testify the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.”

Revised Standard Version

And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth. There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree.”

New Revised Standard Version

There are three that testify, the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree.”

 

Reading the same verses from different versions of the Bible can be very confusing and frustrating experience.

 

 

The only begotten son

 

Again, the word “only begotten” exists only in the Gospel according to John 1:14, only in the King James Version:

 

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth”

 

Interestingly enough, this word “only begotten” does not exist in the Revised Standard Version, New Revised Standard, and other versions.

 

Revised Standard Version

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father”

New Revised Standard Version

“And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father's only son, full of grace and truth”

Good News Translation

“The Word became a human being and, full of grace and truth, lived among us. We saw his glory, the glory which he received as the Father's only Son

New Living Translation

“So the Word became human and lived here on earth among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the only Son of the Father”

 

Consequently, the two basic principles of Christianity, trinity and son of god, exist only in Gospel according to John and in First Epistle of John, only in the King James Version, a version that was described as having grave defects. The average Christian should have the right to ask why did the basics of my Christian faith expunge from later versions of the Bible, and what happened to my faith? These are very serious and crucial questions. Again the question is why this word “begotten”, that is extremely important, was deleted from later Bibles? But this is what Christians are made to believe in the churches without any references to the authenticity of the Gospels or to the different versions of the Bible. However, Christians also know that God has many sons according to the Bible:

 

Genesis 6:2 “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men.”

Exodus 4:22israel is my son, even my firstborn”

Deuteronomy 14:1 “Ye are the children of God.”

Psalms 2:7 “The Lord hath said unto me, (David) Thou art my son: this day have I begotten thee.”

Jeremiah 31:9 “for I (God) am a father to israel, and Ephraim is my first born.”

Luke 3:38 “which (Adam) was the Son of God.”

Romans 8:14 “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”

 

One of the tactics of the anti-Islam Evangelists and “Websiters” is to pick up the verse that advances their purpose from one Version of the Bible. And they totally ignore the same verse from other Versions that contradicts their point. They really show their Mastery in playing the game of half the truth.

 

Muslims say that nowhere in the Bible did Jesus say that he is the son of God. This was the answer of half the truth:

 

Ye, he did, read: Luke 22:70

 

New King James Version

“They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."

 

But they conveniently ignore the same verse in other versions (I wonder why?):

 

King James Version

“Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

 

Revised Standard Version

“And they all said, "Are you the Son of God, then?" And he said to them, "You say that I am."

 

New Revised Standard Version

“All of them asked, "Are you, then, the Son of God?" He said to them, "You say that I am."

 

American Standard Version

“And they all said, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

 

So where in the Bible did Jesus say bluntly that he is The Son of God or even the son of god without the interpretations of half the truth? Some of those half the truth claim that they know better than the authors of RSV, NRSV, American Standard Version, and the rest of versions, perhaps because they know a little bit of Greek. But, who can say that Jesus spoke Greek? He spoke the Aramaic language, and there is no capital S or small s, for son, in this language.

 

Just a fyi these are all horibly flawed translations. Go and get a proper one please!!!!!!!!! :whistling:

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call what you want, but christianity is not monotheistic religion, you have 3 gods in 1 God....you only rape your own intelect with such illogical nonsence.

 

Okay, then we agree that we have a different God.

So let me ask you one more time, why do Muslims insist that we have the same God when trying to convert Christians to thier faith? this is obviously deception wouldn't you say?

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There you go again!

Look, if you reject the Trinity, then you follow a different God to Christians. Also if you interperate the Bible differently to Christians... guess what? yup, you follow a different God.

 

Do you believe Jews have the same God as you?

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Brother xtremecheese,

 

I think Christians and Muslims worship the same God only our perception of him is different. The catechism tells us we share the same Abrahamic faith.

 

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." – CCC

 

 

Your brother in Christ,

 

Thank you for your input Augustine, however I'm not a Catholic, do not recognize the Pope (in particular John Paul 2 who famously kissed the Koran) and therefore reject the catechism that you have quoted on the basis that the Bible describes a different God to the Koran.

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[at] Augustine as a fellow Catholic I do agree with what you posted in 841 but we must also keep in mind what is stated in the paragraphs to follow. For some on this forum it may very well apply.

 

 

842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

 

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

 

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.334

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

 

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

 

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

 

God bless you and keep you

 

May the Lord make His light upon you and give you peace.

Edited by workingman

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Christians and Jews have the first 37 books of the Bible in common, and therefore up to that point we have the same God. Muslims cannot claim this in regards to the Koran and the Bible, as the two simply don't tally, hence I can very confidently state that Muslims worship a completely different God.

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Christians and Jews have the first 37 books of the Bible in common, and therefore up to that point we have the same God. Muslims cannot claim this in regards to the Koran and the Bible, as the two simply don't tally, hence I can very confidently state that Muslims worship a completely different God.

 

Yet the Jews firmly reject the Trinity and they accept the Islamic version of God...

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How can they? The Koran directly contradicts Genesis.

Here's some examples:-

Genesis: Man was created on Earth, in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:8) Koran: Man was created in Paradise (‘janna’),1 not on Earth (first couple later banished to Earth, e.g. Koran 2:36).

Genesis: Man and the animals were created vegetarian (Genesis 1:29–30). No death and suffering in the original creation. Koran: Carnivory (and thus death and suffering) apparently integral to life on the created Earth from the first. The Koran (6:142, 16:5, 40:79) says that cattle were created for man to eat.

Genesis: Prior to sin, Adam and Eve given free access to fruit of the ‘Tree of Life’ (Genesis 2:9, 16–17). Koran: The ‘Tree of Eternity’ (equated with giving eternal life in 7:20, hence comparable to the Biblical Tree of Life) was the Forbidden Tree (20:120).

Genesis: After the Fall, man will now eat ‘through painful toil’ and (as a result of the Curse on the land) ‘by the sweat of your brow’ (Genesis 3:17, 19). Koran: Toil and sweat were an integral part of the original created Earth. Koran 90:4 ‘Verily We have created man to toil and struggle.’

Genesis: Eight people survived the Flood (1 Peter 3:20), i.e. all of Noah’s family (Genesis 7:1, 7). Koran: The Koran claims one of Noah’s sons was drowned (11:42–43), and puts a question mark over whether Noah’s wife survived (66:10, 11:40).

 

The list goes on!

Please don't insult my intelligence.

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