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How can they? The Koran directly contradicts Genesis.

 

You should ask the Jews why they reject the Trinity but believe the Islamic concept of God to be valid.

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You should ask the Jews why they reject the Trinity but believe the Islamic concept of God to be valid.

 

Sure, I think this is something for me to research - I'd certainly like to know their take on passages such as Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7; and Micah 5:2, however the point here is that obviously the God of Genesis again is different from the God of the Koran - you may agree with certain Jews regarding concepts such as the trinity, but your Gods are certainly not the same.

Now as Genesis is a founding document of Christianity, we can literally claim that we have the same God.

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I see you’re constantly hammering in our faces “Christianity is wrong!” along with your pride, arrogance and self proclaimed infallibility of interpreting scripture...is this your way of winning hearts over to Islam? I know you’re trying to show flaws in Christianity so we can see the “error” of our ways but I have to tell mate at the moment you’re reeeeeeally turning me off Islam. How many people have you converted to Islam by debating? Please answer honestly...

 

Maybe if you were a little more humble and were willing to listen to what we Christians have to say you may open further interest for us Christians to learn about Islam. Right now your arrogance is a major stumbling block for potential Muslim candidates.

 

Something for you to think about brother...

 

God bless you and grant us all the gift of humility.

 

my christian brother, i just want to show to you all that christianity is not religion of our prophet Jesus Christ/Messias,christianity was created by Paul, so if you were a true follower of jesus you would be following Islam beacuse if you compare us muslims with jesus you will see how much we follow him.

First thing you will notice in Masjid how muslims follow jesus, is greetings, Salam Alaikom /Peace be unto you, exactly how jesus greets people in bible.

Second stuff you will notice is praying with face on the floor, exactly like jesus, and there is a lot of stuff wich you will recognize from bible wich you christians dont do.

 

i dont want to offend you in any way, i apologize if i offend someone, i am only defending religion of jesus (Islam) while you christians defending religion of Paul (christianity)

 

when you realize that Islam is relgion of jesus and not christianity , then you will understand us muslims.

 

God say in quran that you christians are closest friends to muslims, comparing to other groups.

 

God says in quran:

 

5:82 ...and nearest among them in love to the (Muslim)believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

 

we are not your enemies, nor do we hate you...

 

but when i say that something is wrong with christianity i say why and how, i dont insult peole saying, your relgion is garbage, or christianity is garbage, no i really dont do that. but when i point at errors in christianity and illogical stuff wich i can never understand no matter how hard i try to understand it.

 

you can also say why something is wrong with Islam,i would not take it as insulting or arrogance, i accept people's opinions and try to explain their missunderstandings about Islam.

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when jesus comes in future to the earth, as a sign of Judgment day and end of the world, he will be fight with muslims against non-believers, Jesus will lead muslim army and kill the anti-christ. Jesus will marry , have kids and die, muslims shall burry him next to prophet Muhammed's grave in Medina.

 

Jesus will no accept christianity from people, according to bible and quran

 

in bible jesus say:

 

<< Matthew 7:23 >>

Many will say to me on that day(second coming to earth), 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

 

in quran:

 

God says:

 

He(Jesus) is a Sign of the Hour. Have no doubt about it. But follow me. This is a straight path. (

Surat az-Zukhruf: 43:61)

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JEWS PROVE Islam RIGHT AND CHRISTIANITY WRONG

 

But the Koran does not tally with Genesis (for starters!) so therefore unless they are ignorant of one side or the other, how can any follower of Judaism claim that they have the same God?

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God calls you christians to join muslims:

 

3:64 Say(to them Muhammed), ‘People of the Book(christians and jews), let us arrive at a statement that is common to us all: we worship God alone, we ascribe no partner to Him, and none of us takes others beside God as lords.’ If they turn away, say, ‘Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to God's Will).

 

Quran was sent from God by angel gabriel also to correct christians, and to guide them to to the right path, the path of all prophets, adam, noah, abraham, solomon, david, lot, jona, joseph, jacob, moses, jesus, muhammed and others.

 

God says in quran:

 

18:1 Praise be to God, who sent down the Scripture(Quran) to His servant(Muhammed) and has put no crookedness in it.

2. warning of severe punishment from Him, and [giving] glad news to the believers who do good deeds––an excellent reward

3. that they will always enjoy.

4 and to warn those who say: "God has taken to Him a child."

 

5:72 Those who say, ‘God is the Messiah, son of Mary,’ have defied God. The Messiah himself said, ‘Children of israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord.’ If anyone associates others with God, God will forbid him from the Garden, and Hell will be his home. No one will help such evildoers.

 

choose for yourself if this is logical what quran says, and decide what you are going to follow, Jesus (Islam) or Paul (christianity)...it is up to you know.

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But the Koran does not tally with Genesis (for starters!) so therefore unless they are ignorant of one side or the other, how can any follower of Judaism claim that they have the same God?

 

like what?

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when you combine bible and quran you can get understanding of bible verses

 

like this

 

in bible jesus say:

 

<< Matthew 7:23 >>

Many will say to me on that day(second coming to earth), 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

 

now you wonder how can jesus say something like this to christians who do this in his name, where is logic in this??? is this not weird??? :huh:

 

but when you combine that bible verse with quran verse you can understand it

 

God says in quran:

 

5:72 Those who say, ‘God is the Messiah, son of Mary,’ have defied God. The Messiah himself said, ‘Children of israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord.’ If anyone associates others with God, God will forbid him from the Garden, and Hell will be his home. No one will help such evildoers.

 

so Jesus will estrange christians from himself in his second coming beacuse you chjristian made him partner to God, or God.

 

that is why he is going to say to you 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

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I recommend this lecture

 

Jesus Christ in Islam, by Ahmed Deedat

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Okay, then we agree that we have a different God.

So let me ask you one more time, why do Muslims insist that we have the same God when trying to convert Christians to thier faith? this is obviously deception wouldn't you say?

 

I don't agree and neither do most Muslims.

 

I don’t think there would be much benefit for us to gain in displaying “we’re right you’re wrong” attitude. It may even get ugly. The way I see it, the positive way forward is to ask each other questions and try to understand why the other person believes what he believes.

 

God bless,

 

I was looking more at a way of explaining each belief system and through this allowing those not in said belief to ask questions. For reasons like the post that cheeseman posted who seems to be along the belief that all Christians are trinitarian which is funny since there are so many denominations of Christianity that do not believe in the trinity

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Sure, I think this is something for me to research - I'd certainly like to know their take on passages such as Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7; and Micah 5:2, however the point here is that obviously the God of Genesis again is different from the God of the Koran - you may agree with certain Jews regarding concepts such as the trinity, but your Gods are certainly not the same.

Now as Genesis is a founding document of Christianity, we can literally claim that we have the same God.

 

actually many Christians do believe that the Garden of Eden was not literally on earth as no such claim is made in the Bible. It says the Garden of Eden and does not specify where first of all, secondly the books of the Torah were, self-admittedly by Jewish Rabbis, pruned as one might prune a tree as years progressed.

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And by the way as someone of German Jewish heritage I can tell you that we do share the same basic concepts of God while the details within the story may vary.

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This is where it is criticly important to use a proper translation. Now from a proper translation of the verse you sighted [13] Then were little children presented to him, that he should impose hands upon them and pray. And the disciples rebuked them. [14] But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such. [15] And when he had imposed hands upon them, he departed from thence.

 

Now that we have the context of the verse you lay claim to for your proof. Lets look at its meaning.

 

Ver. 14. Jesus said ... Suffer the little children, &c. He here blames the conduct of the apostles, and shews that his assertions in praise of virginity, were not meant as derogatory from the holiness of the marriage state, by giving his blessing to these little ones, the fruits of lawful wedlock; and declares that the kingdom of heaven is the portion of such as resemble these little ones, by the innocence of their lives and simplicity of their hearts. He, moreover, shews that confidence in our own strength, in our own free-will, and in our merits, is an invincible obstacle to salvation. St. Mark (x. 16) says, that embracing them, and laying hands upon them, he blessed them. Hence probably arose the ancient custom of presenting children to bishops and priests, to receive their blessing, beside that of confirmation immediately after baptism. --- Nicephorus tells us that the celebrated St. Ignatius, afterwards bishop of Antioch, was one of these children who, on this occasion, received Christ's blessing. --- If we would enter into the kingdom of heaven, we must imitate the virtues of little children. Their souls are free from every passion; void of every thought of revenge, they approach those who have grieved them as to their best friends. Though the parent repeatedly chastise his child, it still will adhere to him, still will it love him, and prefer him in all his poverty to all the fascinating charms of dazzling gold and purple. They seek not beyond what is necessary, they admire not the beauty of the body, they are not grieved at the loss of worldly wealth, therefore does the Saviour of the world say, that theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (St. Chrysostom, hom. lxiii.)

 

 

 

 

This has been adressed befor and I will not adress it again.

 

Matthew 19:14

 

New International Version (©1984)

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

New Living Translation (©2007)

But Jesus said, "Let the children come to me. Don't stop them! For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children."

English Standard Version (©2001)

but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

International Standard Version (©2008)

Jesus, however, said, "Let the little children come to me, and stop keeping them away, because the kingdom of heaven belongs to people like these."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)

But Yeshua said to them, “Let the children come to me and do not forbid them, for the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

Jesus said, "Don't stop children from coming to me! Children like these are part of the kingdom of God."

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)

But Jesus said, Allow little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

 

you say:

 

But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children

 

what does it mean suffer little children? it is more logical that it should be translated Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them.

 

anyway you wrote for the kingdom of heaven is for such. it only proves that there is no orginal sin and that children are innocent like Islam say, i really dont know what you are saying here...you are just complicating more and more.

 

if you still believe that we all are born with sins wich our father Adam did, then where is logic in that, that we shall have sins of other.

 

be honest now, look what quran say, and what your soul say to you

 

God says in quran:

 

17:15 Whoever accepts the guidance, has done himself a favor. Whoever has chooses the wrong path, he has done an injustice to himself. Nobody will be held responsible for somebody else’s wrong doing and I will never punish without first having sent a Messenger (to warn.)

 

compare this

Nobody will be held responsible for somebody else’s wrong doing

 

with your ideology of orginal sin, where we carry sin of our father. every human can see how just Islam is, and logical, even you know this but you dont want to admit it to us and to yourself.

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Okay, then we agree that we have a different God.

So let me ask you one more time, why do Muslims insist that we have the same God when trying to convert Christians to thier faith? this is obviously deception wouldn't you say?

 

if you say jesus is God, then yes, we believe in God in heaven, not God incarnated in human form.

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Matthew 19:14

 

New International Version (©1984)

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

New Living Translation (©2007)

But Jesus said, "Let the children come to me. Don't stop them! For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children."

English Standard Version (©2001)

but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

International Standard Version (©2008)

Jesus, however, said, "Let the little children come to me, and stop keeping them away, because the kingdom of heaven belongs to people like these."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)

But Yeshua said to them, “Let the children come to me and do not forbid them, for the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

Jesus said, "Don't stop children from coming to me! Children like these are part of the kingdom of God."

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)

But Jesus said, Allow little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

 

you say:

 

But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children

 

what does it mean suffer little children? it is more logical that it should be translated Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them.

 

anyway you wrote for the kingdom of heaven is for such. it only proves that there is no orginal sin and that children are innocent like Islam say, i really dont know what you are saying here...you are just complicating more and more.

 

if you still believe that we all are born with sins wich our father Adam did, then where is logic in that, that we shall have sins of other.

 

be honest now, look what quran say, and what your soul say to you

 

God says in quran:

 

17:15 Whoever accepts the guidance, has done himself a favor. Whoever has chooses the wrong path, he has done an injustice to himself. Nobody will be held responsible for somebody else’s wrong doing and I will never punish without first having sent a Messenger (to warn.)

 

compare this

Nobody will be held responsible for somebody else’s wrong doing

 

with your ideology of orginal sin, where we carry sin of our father. every human can see how just Islam is, and logical, even you know this but you dont want to admit it to us and to yourself.

 

I will adress your original sin concept and generation sin first. Exodus 20:5 [5] Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me:

Exodus 34:7 [7] Who keepest mercy unto thousands: who takest away iniquity, and wickedness, and sin, and no man of himself is innocent before thee. Who renderest the iniquity of the fathers to the children, and to the grandchildren, unto the third and fourth generation. Numbers 14:18 [18] The Lord is patient and full of mercy, taking away iniquity and wickedness, and leaving no man clear, who visitest the sins of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Deut. 5:9 [9] Thou shalt not adore them, and thou shalt not serve them. For I am the Lord thy God, a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the third and fourth generation, to them that hate me,

 

That covers generational sin. Lets see if this helps you a little more on original sin. The consequences of Adam's sin for humanity

402 All men are implicated in Adam's sin, as St. Paul affirms: "By one man's disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners": "sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned."289 The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. "Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men."290

403 Following St. Paul, the Church has always taught that the overwhelming misery which oppresses men and their inclination towards evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam's sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted, a sin which is the "death of the soul".291 Because of this certainty of faith, the Church baptizes for the remission of sins even tiny infants who have not committed personal sin.292

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man".293 By this "unity of the human race" all men are implicated in Adam's sin, as all are implicated in Christ's justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act.

405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called "concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ's grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.

406 The Church's teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine's reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. Pelagius held that man could, by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God's grace, lead a morally good life; he thus reduced the influence of Adam's fault to bad example. The first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable. The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529)296 and at the Council of Trent (1546).297

A hard battle. . .

407 The doctrine of original sin, closely connected with that of redemption by Christ, provides lucid discernment of man's situation and activity in the world. By our first parents' sin, the devil has acquired a certain domination over man, even though man remains free. Original sin entails "captivity under the power of him who thenceforth had the power of death, that is, the devil".298 Ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action299 and morals.

408 The consequences of original sin and of all men's personal sins put the world as a whole in the sinful condition aptly described in St. John's expression, "the sin of the world".300 This expression can also refer to the negative influence exerted on people by communal situations and social structures that are the fruit of men's sins.301

409 This dramatic situation of "the whole world [which] is in the power of the evil one"302 makes man's life a battle:

 

The whole of man's history has been the story of dour combat with the powers of evil, stretching, so our Lord tells us, from the very dawn of history until the last day. Finding himself in the midst of the battlefield man has to struggle to do what is right, and it is at great cost to himself, and aided by God's grace, that he succeeds in achieving his own inner integrity.303

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How can they? The Koran directly contradicts Genesis.

Here's some examples:-

Genesis: Man was created on Earth, in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:8) Koran: Man was created in Paradise (‘janna’),1 not on Earth (first couple later banished to Earth, e.g. Koran 2:36).

Genesis: Man and the animals were created vegetarian (Genesis 1:29–30). No death and suffering in the original creation. Koran: Carnivory (and thus death and suffering) apparently integral to life on the created Earth from the first. The Koran (6:142, 16:5, 40:79) says that cattle were created for man to eat.

Genesis: Prior to sin, Adam and Eve given free access to fruit of the ‘Tree of Life’ (Genesis 2:9, 16–17). Koran: The ‘Tree of Eternity’ (equated with giving eternal life in 7:20, hence comparable to the Biblical Tree of Life) was the Forbidden Tree (20:120).

Genesis: After the Fall, man will now eat ‘through painful toil’ and (as a result of the Curse on the land) ‘by the sweat of your brow’ (Genesis 3:17, 19). Koran: Toil and sweat were an integral part of the original created Earth. Koran 90:4 ‘Verily We have created man to toil and struggle.’

Genesis: Eight people survived the Flood (1 Peter 3:20), i.e. all of Noah’s family (Genesis 7:1, 7). Koran: The Koran claims one of Noah’s sons was drowned (11:42–43), and puts a question mark over whether Noah’s wife survived (66:10, 11:40).

 

The list goes on!

Please don't insult my intelligence.

 

so you are judging Quran with genesis, and genesis have so big scientifc errors, genesis dont agree with itself so how can it agree with quran.

 

tell me something how can you trust a book who say that night and day is created before sun? and that grasshopper have 4 legs

 

1 day :

Genesis 1:5

God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day.

 

4 day

Genesis 1:16-

God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.God set these lights in the sky to light the earth,to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.And there was evening, and there was morning--the fourth day.

 

tell us now scientifically how can day and night be created before sun, when day and night depend on sun?

 

 

Leviticus 11:21-22

There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground.Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper

 

Grasshopper have 6 legs, not 4 like bible claim, and you judge quran with genesis when it can say how much legs a grasshopper have...come on man, dont joke with us here. How can you trust a book who make clear scientific errors?

 

grasshopper.jpg

 

 

Man was created on Earth, in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:8)

 

 

1- The Creation of Adam and Eve in Heaven!

Before we begin, I'd like to describe what the Garden of Eden is according to Islam and the Bible:

In Islam:

Narrated Abdullah bin Qais: "Allah's Apostle said, "Two gardens, the utensils and the contents of which are of silver, and two other gardens, the utensils and contents of which are of gold. And nothing will prevent the people who will be in the Garden of Eden from seeing their Lord except the curtain of Majesty over His Face." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 401)"

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Qais: "The Prophet said, "(There will be) two Paradises of silver and all the utensils and whatever is therein (will be of silver); and two Paradises of gold, and its utensils and whatever therein (will be of gold), and there will be nothing to prevent the people from seeing their Lord except the Cover of Majesty over His Face in the Paradise of Eden (eternal bliss)." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 536)"

To see the details of Heaven in the Noble Quran, please visit:

Would you describe Heaven and Hell in Islam?

 

In the Bible:

The Bible makes it clear that Heaven is a physical place:

Jesus in Luke 24:51 was taken up to Heaven in his physical body.

Also, when GOD Almighty created Adam, peace be upon him, in the Garden of Eden (one of the Gardens of Heaven), He created him in our physical form today:

Genesis 2:7-9

7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed.

9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 2:14-16

14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;

The earth that we are living on today is the worst and lowest land that GOD Almighty Created. It is called the waste land, and it is the punishment that Adam and Eve received when they disobeyed GOD Almighty:

Genesis 3:22-24

22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.

24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

Isaiah 51:3

3 The LORD will surely comfort Zion and will look with compassion on all her ruins; he will make her deserts like Eden, her wastelands like the garden of the LORD. Joy and gladness will be found in her, thanksgiving and the sound of singing.

Ezekiel 28:13

13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.

Ezekiel 31:9

9 I made it beautiful with abundant branches, the envy of all the trees of Eden in the garden of God.

Joel 2:3

3 Before them fire devours, behind them a flame blazes. Before them the land is like the garden of Eden, behind them, a desert waste— nothing escapes them.

 

Several important points to notice:

1- Eden is a vast Heaven (as also shown in the verses below). Adam and Eve initially existed in a Garden that existed in the Heaven of Eden, which is why it was later called the "Garden of Eden".

2- Notice how GOD Almighty literally took Adam and placed him in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:15) and then banished him and his "wife" (see Genesis 3:17, Genesis 3:20 below) out of it into the waste land, earth (Genesis 3:23, Ezekiel 28:13, Joel 2:3).

3- The names of the rivers such as Tigris and Euphrates don't mean that these are the same rivers that we have here on earth, in Iraq today! It is quite possible that Adam named several earthly places on earth the same as Heavenly ones to keep the good memories of the Blessed Days alive. There is a city in Yemen today called "Eden". Yemen as a land and its city of Eden are far from being a place like Paradise. As we further see in the following verses, Eden was called the "Garden/Heaven of GOD" while earth was called "waste land".

4- The book of Genesis is not original. It is a rewrite and it also had been tampered with. While it is similar to the Islamic Accounts regarding Adam, Eve and Heaven, but only the Noble Quran and the Islamic Claims are original and truly Divine. See the Bible's own theologians' comments regarding the corruption of the book of Genesis.

 

Further proofs from Wikipedia Encyclopedia:

Also, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden:

"In the tale the garden is planted "in" Eden, and accordingly "Eden" properly denotes the larger territory which contains the garden rather than being the name of the garden itself: it is, thus, the garden located in Eden."

 

As we clearly see above:

Eden was called the Garden/Heaven of GOD!

Our Earth was called a "waste land"!

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I will adress your original sin concept and generation sin first. Exodus 20:5 [5] Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me:

Exodus 34:7 [7] Who keepest mercy unto thousands: who takest away iniquity, and wickedness, and sin, and no man of himself is innocent before thee. Who renderest the iniquity of the fathers to the children, and to the grandchildren, unto the third and fourth generation. Numbers 14:18 [18] The Lord is patient and full of mercy, taking away iniquity and wickedness, and leaving no man clear, who visitest the sins of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. Deut. 5:9 [9] Thou shalt not adore them, and thou shalt not serve them. For I am the Lord thy God, a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the third and fourth generation, to them that hate me,

 

That covers generational sin. Lets see if this helps you a little more on original sin. The consequences of Adam's sin for humanity

402 All men are implicated in Adam's sin, as St. Paul affirms: "By one man's disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners": "sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned."289 The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. "Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men."290

403 Following St. Paul, the Church has always taught that the overwhelming misery which oppresses men and their inclination towards evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam's sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted, a sin which is the "death of the soul".291 Because of this certainty of faith, the Church baptizes for the remission of sins even tiny infants who have not committed personal sin.292

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man".293 By this "unity of the human race" all men are implicated in Adam's sin, as all are implicated in Christ's justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act.

405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called "concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ's grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.

406 The Church's teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine's reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. Pelagius held that man could, by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God's grace, lead a morally good life; he thus reduced the influence of Adam's fault to bad example. The first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable. The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529)296 and at the Council of Trent (1546).297

A hard battle. . .

407 The doctrine of original sin, closely connected with that of redemption by Christ, provides lucid discernment of man's situation and activity in the world. By our first parents' sin, the devil has acquired a certain domination over man, even though man remains free. Original sin entails "captivity under the power of him who thenceforth had the power of death, that is, the devil".298 Ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action299 and morals.

408 The consequences of original sin and of all men's personal sins put the world as a whole in the sinful condition aptly described in St. John's expression, "the sin of the world".300 This expression can also refer to the negative influence exerted on people by communal situations and social structures that are the fruit of men's sins.301

409 This dramatic situation of "the whole world [which] is in the power of the evil one"302 makes man's life a battle:

 

The whole of man's history has been the story of dour combat with the powers of evil, stretching, so our Lord tells us, from the very dawn of history until the last day. Finding himself in the midst of the battlefield man has to struggle to do what is right, and it is at great cost to himself, and aided by God's grace, that he succeeds in achieving his own inner integrity.303

 

tell us logically how can we be responsible for sins of others if they did not ask us if they shall do it or not, where is justice in that, where is logic, what kind of God is that?????

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tell us logically how can we be responsible for sins of others if they did not ask us if they shall do it or not, where is justice in that, where is logic, what kind of God is that?????

 

please reread in post #126. I think it is fairly self explanitory. Take the answer for what it is worth.

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amazing lecture about priests entering Islam, i reccommend it, and yusuf estes is funny also :D

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For Muslims that are genuinely seeking to understand Christianity, you can find the answers in this catechism. It contains a summary of:

  • Answers to complex questions such as the Holy Trinity, the divinity of Jesus etc.
  • Authentic interpretation of scripture
  • Sacred tradition
  • Church councils

 

You don’t have to agree with the Church teachings, I only ask for an open mind and sincere heart.

 

God bless,

 

My sister went through catechism (and she went to the Vatican), my wife is Catholic ( as is most of her family ), one of the brothers [at] the masjid was Irish Catholic before reverting, and I have studied Catholicism personally which is why I am one of the few good ol' boys I know that actually know what the X in the Confederate Battle Flag stood for and thus see the irony in the K.K.K. hating Catholicism. I even watched back in 2005 when Pope John Paul II died and they had to decide a new Pope via the council. I also admittedly cried when Mother Teresa died ( I don't care that she was Christian, if there was ever a person that should be admitted to paradise outside the prophets she was it, the fact that she is not regarded as saintly status by the church makes me sick to my stomach ).

 

I will not personally attack Catholicism even though I do not agree with it because I have a deep respect for my wife and her family.

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There's no need to feel sick to your stomach, Blessed Mother Teresa does hold saintly status. She was beatified by Pope John Paul II on the 19th October 2003 which means Catholics are obligated to believe she is now in heaven enjoying her eternal reward.

 

God bless,

 

I don't care if the person is Christian, Jew or Muslim if they don't think Mother Teresa is in Heaven they need their head examined. If she ain't what God is wanting out of us for how to be towards others we are all screwed, self included.

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I don't care if the person is Christian, Jew or Muslim if they don't think Mother Teresa is in Heaven they need their head examined. If she ain't what God is wanting out of us for how to be towards others we are all screwed, self included.

 

but what about if Mother teresa joined partners to God, then what brother??

 

God says in quran:

 

5:72....The Messiah himself said; "Children of israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord." If anyone associates others with God, God will forbid him from the Garden, and Hell will be his home. No one will help such evildoers.

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As-salamu 'alaikum

 

Nobody knows whether Mother Theresa is in Paradise except Allah. If a person rejects the Truth when it comes to them, then they won't enter Paradise but will be in Hell instead. The person could be the kindest one but if he rejects the Truth when it comes, he will be in Hell. Those whom the Truth has not reached still have a chance in that Allah will test them on the Day of Judgement.

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