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Anyone besides me notice that there is no quote from the Qur'an used by this brother?

 

First of all Mother Teresa was not introduced to Islam to the best of my knowledge. Secondly, please do not come forth on such topics making random statements. However, I will agree with the statement that only Allah (swt) knows who goes to paradise.

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Matthew 19:14

 

New International Version (©1984)

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

New Living Translation (©2007)

But Jesus said, "Let the children come to me. Don't stop them! For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children."

English Standard Version (©2001)

but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

International Standard Version (©2008)

Jesus, however, said, "Let the little children come to me, and stop keeping them away, because the kingdom of heaven belongs to people like these."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)

But Yeshua said to them, “Let the children come to me and do not forbid them, for the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

Jesus said, "Don't stop children from coming to me! Children like these are part of the kingdom of God."

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)

But Jesus said, Allow little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

 

you say:

 

But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children

 

what does it mean suffer little children? it is more logical that it should be translated Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them.

 

anyway you wrote for the kingdom of heaven is for such. it only proves that there is no orginal sin and that children are innocent like Islam say, i really dont know what you are saying here...you are just complicating more and more.

 

if you still believe that we all are born with sins wich our father Adam did, then where is logic in that, that we shall have sins of other.

 

be honest now, look what quran say, and what your soul say to you

 

God says in quran:

 

17:15 Whoever accepts the guidance, has done himself a favor. Whoever has chooses the wrong path, he has done an injustice to himself. Nobody will be held responsible for somebody else’s wrong doing and I will never punish without first having sent a Messenger (to warn.)

 

compare this

Nobody will be held responsible for somebody else’s wrong doing

 

with your ideology of orginal sin, where we carry sin of our father. every human can see how just Islam is, and logical, even you know this but you dont want to admit it to us and to yourself.

 

This is why Jesus told us to baptise. Baptism is a sacrament for the forgivness of sins. Below is posted from the CCC on baptism.

 

 

ARTICLE 1

THE SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM

1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."5

I. WHAT IS THIS SACRAMENT CALLED?

1214 This sacrament is called Baptism, after the central rite by which it is carried out: to baptize (Greek baptizein) means to "plunge" or "immerse"; the "plunge" into the water symbolizes the catechumen's burial into Christ's death, from which he rises up by resurrection with him, as "a new creature."6

1215 This sacrament is also called "the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit," for it signifies and actually brings about the birth of water and the Spirit without which no one "can enter the kingdom of God."7

1216 "This bath is called enlightenment, because those who receive this [catechetical] instruction are enlightened in their understanding . . . ."8 Having received in Baptism the Word, "the true light that enlightens every man," the person baptized has been "enlightened," he becomes a "son of light," indeed, he becomes "light" himself:9

 

Baptism is God's most beautiful and magnificent gift. . . .We call it gift, grace, anointing, enlightenment, garment of immortality, bath of rebirth, seal, and most precious gift. It is called gift because it is conferred on those who bring nothing of their own; grace since it is given even to the guilty; Baptism because sin is buried in the water; anointing for it is priestly and royal as are those who are anointed; enlightenment because it radiates light; clothing since it veils our shame; bath because it washes; and seal as it is our guard and the sign of God's Lordship.10

II. BAPTISM IN THE ECONOMY OF SALVATION

Prefigurations of Baptism in the Old Covenant

1217 In the liturgy of the Easter Vigil, during the blessing of the baptismal water, the Church solemnly commemorates the great events in salvation history that already prefigured the mystery of Baptism:

 

Father, you give us grace through sacramental signs,

which tell us of the wonders of your unseen power.

In Baptism we use your gift of water,

which you have made a rich symbol

of the grace you give us in this sacrament.11

1218 Since the beginning of the world, water, so humble and wonderful a creature, has been the source of life and fruitfulness. Sacred Scripture sees it as "overshadowed" by the Spirit of God:12

 

At the very dawn of creation

your Spirit breathed on the waters,

making them the wellspring of all holiness.13

1219 The Church has seen in Noah's ark a prefiguring of salvation by Baptism, for by it "a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water":14

 

The waters of the great flood

you made a sign of the waters of Baptism,

that make an end of sin and a new beginning of goodness.15

1220 If water springing up from the earth symbolizes life, the water of the sea is a symbol of death and so can represent the mystery of the cross. By this symbolism Baptism signifies communion with Christ's death.

1221 But above all, the crossing of the Red Sea, literally the liberation of israel from the slavery of Egypt, announces the liberation wrought by Baptism:

 

You freed the children of Abraham from the slavery of Pharaoh,

bringing them dry-shod through the waters of the Red Sea,

to be an image of the people set free in Baptism.16

1222 Finally, Baptism is prefigured in the crossing of the Jordan River by which the People of God received the gift of the land promised to Abraham's descendants, an image of eternal life. The promise of this blessed inheritance is fulfilled in the New Covenant.

Christ's Baptism

1223 All the Old Covenant prefigurations find their fulfillment in Christ Jesus. He begins his public life after having himself baptized by St. John the Baptist in the Jordan.17 After his resurrection Christ gives this mission to his apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."18

1224 Our Lord voluntarily submitted himself to the baptism of St. John, intended for sinners, in order to "fulfill all righteousness."19 Jesus' gesture is a manifestation of his self-emptying.20 The Spirit who had hovered over the waters of the first creation descended then on the Christ as a prelude of the new creation, and the Father revealed Jesus as his "beloved Son."21

1225 In his Passover Christ opened to all men the fountain of Baptism. He had already spoken of his Passion, which he was about to suffer in Jerusalem, as a "Baptism" with which he had to be baptized.22 The blood and water that flowed from the pierced side of the crucified Jesus are types of Baptism and the Eucharist, the sacraments of new life.23 From then on, it is possible "to be born of water and the Spirit"24 in order to enter the Kingdom of God.

 

See where you are baptized, see where Baptism comes from, if not from the cross of Christ, from his death. There is the whole mystery: he died for you. In him you are redeemed, in him you are saved.25

Baptism in the Church

1226 From the very day of Pentecost the Church has celebrated and administered holy Baptism. Indeed St. Peter declares to the crowd astounded by his preaching: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."26 The apostles and their collaborators offer Baptism to anyone who believed in Jesus: Jews, the God-fearing, pagans.27 Always, Baptism is seen as connected with faith: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household," St. Paul declared to his jailer in Philippi. And the narrative continues, the jailer "was baptized at once, with all his family."28

1227 According to the Apostle Paul, the believer enters through Baptism into communion with Christ's death, is buried with him, and rises with him:

 

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.29

The baptized have "put on Christ."30 Through the Holy Spirit, Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies.31

1228 Hence Baptism is a bath of water in which the "imperishable seed" of the Word of God produces its life-giving effect.32 St. Augustine says of Baptism: "The word is brought to the material element, and it becomes a sacrament."33

III. HOW IS THE SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM CELEBRATED?

Christian Initiation

1229 From the time of the apostles, becoming a Christian has been accomplished by a journey and initiation in several stages. This journey can be covered rapidly or slowly, but certain essential elements will always have to be present: proclamation of the Word, acceptance of the Gospel entailing conversion, profession of faith, Baptism itself, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and admission to Eucharistic communion.

1230 This initiation has varied greatly through the centuries according to circumstances. In the first centuries of the Church, Christian initiation saw considerable development. A long period of catechumenate included a series of preparatory rites, which were liturgical landmarks along the path of catechumenal preparation and culminated in the celebration of the sacraments of Christian initiation.

1231 Where infant Baptism has become the form in which this sacrament is usually celebrated, it has become a single act encapsulating the preparatory stages of Christian initiation in a very abridged way. By its very nature infant Baptism requires a post-baptismal catechumenate. Not only is there a need for instruction after Baptism, but also for the necessary flowering of baptismal grace in personal growth. The catechism has its proper place here.

1232 The second Vatican Council restored for the Latin Church "the catechumenate for adults, comprising several distinct steps."34 The rites for these stages are to be found in the Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults (RCIA).35 The Council also gives permission that: "In mission countries, in addition to what is furnished by the Christian tradition, those elements of initiation rites may be admitted which are already in use among some peoples insofar as they can be adapted to the Christian ritual."36

1233 Today in all the rites, Latin and Eastern, the Christian initiation of adults begins with their entry into the catechumenate and reaches its culmination in a single celebration of the three sacraments of initiation: Baptism, Confirmation, and the Eucharist.37 In the Eastern rites the Christian initiation of infants also begins with Baptism followed immediately by Confirmation and the Eucharist, while in the Roman rite it is followed by years of catechesis before being completed later by Confirmation and the Eucharist, the summit of their Christian initiation.38

The mystagogy of the celebration

1234 The meaning and grace of the sacrament of Baptism are clearly seen in the rites of its celebration. By following the gestures and words of this celebration with attentive participation, the faithful are initiated into the riches this sacrament signifies and actually brings about in each newly baptized person.

1235 The sign of the cross, on the threshold of the celebration, marks with the imprint of Christ the one who is going to belong to him and signifies the grace of the redemption Christ won for us by his cross.

1236 The proclamation of the Word of God enlightens the candidates and the assembly with the revealed truth and elicits the response of faith, which is inseparable from Baptism. Indeed Baptism is "the sacrament of faith" in a particular way, since it is the sacramental entry into the life of faith.

1237 Since Baptism signifies liberation from sin and from its instigator the devil, one or more exorcisms are pronounced over the candidate. The celebrant then anoints him with the oil of catechumens, or lays his hands on him, and he explicitly renounces Satan. Thus prepared, he is able to confess the faith of the Church, to which he will be "entrusted" by Baptism.39

1238 The baptismal water is consecrated by a prayer of epiclesis (either at this moment or at the Easter Vigil). The Church asks God that through his Son the power of the Holy Spirit may be sent upon the water, so that those who will be baptized in it may be "born of water and the Spirit."40

1239 The essential rite of the sacrament follows: Baptism properly speaking. It signifies and actually brings about death to sin and entry into the life of the Most Holy Trinity through configuration to the Paschal mystery of Christ. Baptism is performed in the most expressive way by triple immersion in the baptismal water. However, from ancient times it has also been able to be conferred by pouring the water three times over the candidate's head.

1240 In the Latin Church this triple infusion is accompanied by the minister's words: "N., I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." In the Eastern liturgies the catechumen turns toward the East and the priest says: "The servant of God, N., is baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." At the invocation of each person of the Most Holy Trinity, the priest immerses the candidate in the water and raises him up again.

1241 The anointing with sacred chrism, perfumed oil consecrated by the bishop, signifies the gift of the Holy Spirit to the newly baptized, who has become a Christian, that is, one "anointed" by the Holy Spirit, incorporated into Christ who is anointed priest, prophet, and king.41

1242 In the liturgy of the Eastern Churches, the post-baptismal anointing is the sacrament of Chrismation (Confirmation). In the Roman liturgy the post- baptismal anointing announces a second anointing with sacred chrism to be conferred later by the bishop Confirmation, which will as it were "confirm" and complete the baptismal anointing.

1243 The white garment symbolizes that the person baptized has "put on Christ,"42 has risen with Christ. The candle, lit from the Easter candle, signifies that Christ has enlightened the neophyte. In him the baptized are "the light of the world."43

The newly baptized is now, in the only Son, a child of God entitled to say the prayer of the children of God: "Our Father."

1244 First Holy Communion. Having become a child of God clothed with the wedding garment, the neophyte is admitted "to the marriage supper of the Lamb"44 and receives the food of the new life, the body and blood of Christ. The Eastern Churches maintain a lively awareness of the unity of Christian initiation by giving Holy Communion to all the newly baptized and confirmed, even little children, recalling the Lord's words: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them."45 The Latin Church, which reserves admission to Holy Communion to those who have attained the age of reason, expresses the orientation of Baptism to the Eucharist by having the newly baptized child brought to the altar for the praying of the Our Father.

1245 The solemn blessing concludes the celebration of Baptism. At the Baptism of newborns the blessing of the mother occupies a special place.

IV. WHO CAN RECEIVE BAPTISM?

1246 "Every person not yet baptized and only such a person is able to be baptized."46

The Baptism of adults

1247 Since the beginning of the Church, adult Baptism is the common practice where the proclamation of the Gospel is still new. The catechumenate (preparation for Baptism) therefore occupies an important place. This initiation into Christian faith and life should dispose the catechumen to receive the gift of God in Baptism, Confirmation, and the Eucharist.

1248 The catechumenate, or formation of catechumens, aims at bringing their conversion and faith to maturity, in response to the divine initiative and in union with an ecclesial community. The catechumenate is to be "a formation in the whole Christian life . . . during which the disciples will be joined to Christ their teacher. The catechumens should be properly initiated into the mystery of salvation and the practice of the evangelical virtues, and they should be introduced into the life of faith, liturgy, and charity of the People of God by successive sacred rites."47

1249 Catechumens "are already joined to the Church, they are already of the household of Christ, and are quite frequently already living a life of faith, hope, and charity."48 "With love and solicitude mother Church already embraces them as her own."49

The Baptism of infants

1250 Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.50 The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant Baptism. The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth.51

1251 Christian parents will recognize that this practice also accords with their role as nurturers of the life that God has entrusted to them.52

1252 The practice of infant Baptism is an immemorial tradition of the Church. There is explicit testimony to this practice from the second century on, and it is quite possible that, from the beginning of the apostolic preaching, when whole "households" received baptism, infants may also have been baptized.53

Faith and Baptism

1253 Baptism is the sacrament of faith.54 But faith needs the community of believers. It is only within the faith of the Church that each of the faithful can believe. The faith required for Baptism is not a perfect and mature faith, but a beginning that is called to develop. The catechumen or the godparent is asked: "What do you ask of God's Church?" The response is: "Faith!"

1254 For all the baptized, children or adults, faith must grow after Baptism. For this reason the Church celebrates each year at the Easter Vigil the renewal of baptismal promises. Preparation for Baptism leads only to the threshold of new life. Baptism is the source of that new life in Christ from which the entire Christian life springs forth.

1255 For the grace of Baptism to unfold, the parents' help is important. So too is the role of the godfather and godmother, who must be firm believers, able and ready to help the newly baptized - child or adult on the road of Christian life.55 Their task is a truly ecclesial function (officium).56 The whole ecclesial community bears some responsibility for the development and safeguarding of the grace given at Baptism.

V. WHO CAN BAPTIZE?

1256 The ordinary ministers of Baptism are the bishop and priest and, in the Latin Church, also the deacon.57 In case of necessity, anyone, even a non-baptized person, with the required intention, can baptize58 , by using the Trinitarian baptismal formula. The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of Baptism for salvation.59

VI. THE NECESSITY OF BAPTISM

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

VII. THE GRACE OF BAPTISM

1262 The different effects of Baptism are signified by the perceptible elements of the sacramental rite. Immersion in water symbolizes not only death and purification, but also regeneration and renewal. Thus the two principal effects are purification from sins and new birth in the Holy Spirit.65

For the forgiveness of sins . . .

1263 By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin.66 In those who have been reborn nothing remains that would impede their entry into the Kingdom of God, neither Adam's sin, nor personal sin, nor the consequences of sin, the gravest of which is separation from God.

1264 Yet certain temporal consequences of sin remain in the baptized, such as suffering, illness, death, and such frailties inherent in life as weaknesses of character, and so on, as well as an inclination to sin that Tradition calls concupiscence, or metaphorically, "the tinder for sin" (fomes peccati); since concupiscence "is left for us to wrestle with, it cannot harm those who do not consent but manfully resist it by the grace of Jesus Christ."67 Indeed, "an athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules."68

"A new creature"

1265 Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte "a new creature," an adopted son of God, who has become a "partaker of the divine nature,"69 member of Christ and co-heir with him,70 and a temple of the Holy Spirit.71

1266 The Most Holy Trinity gives the baptized sanctifying grace, the grace of justification:

- enabling them to believe in God, to hope in him, and to love him through the theological virtues;

- giving them the power to live and act under the prompting of the Holy Spirit through the gifts of the Holy Spirit;

- allowing them to grow in goodness through the moral virtues.

Thus the whole organism of the Christian's supernatural life has its roots in Baptism.

Incorporated into the Church, the Body of Christ

1267 Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ: "Therefore . . . we are members one of another."72 Baptism incorporates us into the Church. From the baptismal fonts is born the one People of God of the New Covenant, which transcends all the natural or human limits of nations, cultures, races, and sexes: "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body."73

1268 The baptized have become "living stones" to be "built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood."74 By Baptism they share in the priesthood of Christ, in his prophetic and royal mission. They are "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that [they] may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called [them] out of darkness into his marvelous light."75 Baptism gives a share in the common priesthood of all believers.

1269 Having become a member of the Church, the person baptized belongs no longer to himself, but to him who died and rose for us.76 From now on, he is called to be subject to others, to serve them in the communion of the Church, and to "obey and submit" to the Church's leaders,77 holding them in respect and affection.78 Just as Baptism is the source of responsibilities and duties, the baptized person also enjoys rights within the Church: to receive the sacraments, to be nourished with the Word of God and to be sustained by the other spiritual helps of the Church.79

1270 "Reborn as sons of God, [the baptized] must profess before men the faith they have received from God through the Church" and participate in the apostolic and missionary activity of the People of God.80

The sacramental bond of the unity of Christians

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82

An indelible spiritual mark . . .

1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation.83 Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.

1273 Incorporated into the Church by Baptism, the faithful have received the sacramental character that consecrates them for Christian religious worship.84 The baptismal seal enables and commits Christians to serve God by a vital participation in the holy liturgy of the Church and to exercise their baptismal priesthood by the witness of holy lives and practical charity.85

1274 The Holy Spirit has marked us with the seal of the Lord ("Dominicus character") "for the day of redemption."86 "Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life."87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith,"88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

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Anyone besides me notice that there is no quote from the Qur'an used by this brother?

 

First of all Mother Teresa was not introduced to Islam to the best of my knowledge. Secondly, please do not come forth on such topics making random statements. However, I will agree with the statement that only Allah (swt) knows who goes to paradise.

 

As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

 

I can assure that what I said are not just random statements. It is what Islam teaches. I don't quote the Qur'an on every single. The fact that those who reject the Truth will be in Hell is a widely known belief. That's why I did not quote the Qur'an. The Qur'an repeatedly says that the those who reject the Truth will be in Hell just like it says that those who believe will be in Paradise.

 

You can read the Qur'an and you will notice that it repeatedly says that disbelievers will be in Hell. I will give you three quotes but there are plenty of others:

 

(72. Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is the Messiah ﴿`Isa﴾, son of Maryam.'' But the Messiah said: "O Children of israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.'' Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrongdoers there are no helpers.) (73. Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is the third of three.'' And there is no god but One God (Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall on the disbelievers among them.) (This is from Surah 5)

 

(98:6). Verily, those who disbelieve from among the People of the Scripture and idolators, will abide in the fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.)

 

“Surely, God has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming Fire wherein they will abide for ever.”(Quran 33:64)

 

The concept that the disbeliever's deeds are futile is evident by the following verses:

 

(14:18). The parable of those who disbelieved in their Lord is that their works are as ashes, on which the wind blows furiously on a stormy day; they shall not be able to get aught of what they have earned. That is the straying, far away (from the right path).)

 

(116. Surely, those who disbelieve, neither their properties nor their offspring will avail them against Allah. They are the dwellers of the Fire, therein they will abide.) (117. The parable of what they spend in this world is that of a wind of Sir; it struck the harvest of a people who did wrong against themselves and destroyed it. Allah wronged them not, but they wronged themselves.) (From Surah 3)

 

As for the last concept in my post:

 

(There are four who will present their case on the Day of Resurrection: a deaf man who never heard anything, an insane man, a very old and senile man, and a man who died during the Fatrah. As for the deaf man, he will say, "O Lord, Islam came but I never heard anything.'' As for the insane man, he will say, "O Lord, Islam came and the young boys were throwing camel dung at me.'' As for the senile man, he will say, "O Lord, Islam came and I did not understand anything.'' As for the one who died during the Fatrah, he will say, "O Lord, no Messenger from You came to me.'' Allah will accept their pledge of obedience to Him, then He will send word to them that they should enter the Fire. By the One in Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, if they enter it, it will be cool and safe for them.) There is a similar report with a chain from Qatadah from Al-Hasan from Abu Rafi` from Abu Hurayrah, but at the end it says:

 

«فَمَنْ دَخَلَهَا كَانَتْ عَلَيْهِ بَرْدًا وَسَلَامًا، وَمَنْ لَمْ يَدْخُلْهَا يُسْحَبُ إِلَيْهَا»

 

(Whoever enters it will find it cool and safe, and whoever does not enter it will be dragged into it.) This was also recorded by Ishaq bin Rahwayh from Mu`adh bin Hisham, and by Al-Bayhaqi in Al-I`tiqad. He said: "This is a Sahih chain.'' It was reported by Ibn Jarir from the Hadith of Ma`mar from Hammam from Abu Hurayrah, who attributed it to the Prophet . Then Abu Hurayrah said: "Recite, if you wish:

 

﴿وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِينَ حَتَّى نَبْعَثَ رَسُولاً﴾

 

(And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)).

 

http://www.qtafsir.c...=2845&Itemid=72

 

The above is a Hadith. Here is the verse which is quoted in the Hadith:

 

(17:15.) Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of himself. And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray at his own loss. No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).)

 

For more information read the following: http://www.qtafsir.c...=2846&Itemid=72

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Uh huh so bottomline there is a high probability that mother teresa is in paradise as she was unaware of Islam.

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Uh huh so bottomline there is a high probability that mother teresa is in paradise as she was unaware of Islam.

 

nobody knows that, only God.

 

and by the way if she did not hear anything about Islam, muhammed and quran, then she can have exuse on the day of Judgment and she will be tested on the day of judgment. then it will be eighter paradise or hell.

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so you are judging Quran with genesis, and genesis have so big scientifc errors, genesis dont agree with itself so how can it agree with quran.

 

tell me something how can you trust a book who say that night and day is created before sun? and that grasshopper have 4 legs...

 

Okay so you've defaulted again on attacking the Bible, so again may I suggest that if you want answers then google is your freind, please don't post your problems with scripture to me as my stance is that the Bible is truth and you worship a different God, which is plainly evidenced in the rest of your post.

Oh and by the way, in your zeal to debunk the Genesis, you've already jumped to Leviticus!

Edited by xtremecheese

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Okay so you've defaulted again on attacking the Bible, so again may I suggest that if you want answers then google is your freind, please don't post your problems with scripture to me as my stance is that the Bible is truth and you worship a different God, which is plainly evidenced in the rest of your post.

Oh and by the way, in your zeal to debunk the Genesis, you've already jumped to Leviticus!

 

Okay so you've defaulted again on attacking the Bible,

 

but bible attacks itself by calling itself lying book...

 

as my stance is that the Bible is truth

 

yes there is a lot of truth in bible but it is also mixed with falsehood and errors, made by humans, not by God nor jesus.

 

And we muslims use God's book quran as a scanner or detector for errors in bible. Quran is unchanged book of God, and we have orginal text, almost every muslims family have orginal text of the quran in their homes. and you christians dont have oprginal text of Bible so you can see what is really said in orginal. now your christian scholar can make fool of you translated to you wrong verses and you think it is part of the bible. you dont know that.

But muslim scholars can not fool us muslims beacuse we all have orginal text of quran.

 

and you worship a different God

 

no i dont, it is just that we have different intrepretations of God.

 

how can i worship different God when your bible call God Alah, and i call God Allah also

 

so how can it be different God.

 

even in aramaic bible, God is Allah, look for yourself

 

6thBeatitude.png

 

The sixth beatitude (Matthew 5: from an East Syriac Peshitta.

Ṭûḇayhôn l'aylên daḏkên b-lebbhôn: d-hennôn neḥzôn l'alāhâ.

'Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

 

what is this alāhâ? :yes:

 

even this christian priest prays to Allah in language of jesus, jesus also called God Allah.

 

so how can we worship different God when we call him same name?

 

in your zeal to debunk the Genesis, you've already jumped to Leviticus!

 

does not matter if i jump from geneseis to leviticus or deutronomy or NT, it is same of part of BIBLE wich you have probably in your home.

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but bible attacks itself by calling itself lying book...

The Bible tells the reader that it is not the author of confusion (1st Corinthians 14:33) however I notice that the typical Islamic response to the Bible is to cause confusion, and this is because the Bible is in direct opposition towards the Islamic document, which is the Koran. Therefore in order to make your religion fit, you have to argue against the Bible on one hand, whilst the other reaches out to the Christian that does not know the Koran to decieve them into believing that you worship the same God - and this is your problem, we don't. As a Christian I believe that we don't worship the same God, and I have the documentation to prove it (the Bible and the Koran), and as a Muslim you believe we worship the same God, yet have to falsify mine. One of us is deluded, and it's pretty obvious which one!

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We have tried to calmly explain to you what Islam believes and show how the Bible supports that theory and how Islam does in fact believe in one God. Rather than try and answer the claims you blatantly choose to attack which is why I have more respect for Augustus and workingman than you. I have reported you to the board. I am letting you know that it was me so that I am not in danger of back biting.

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abdullahfath, Thanks for being frank and honest about reporting me.

If you read back you'll find my stance has never changed, my initial statement was that we worship different Gods and squabbles regarding the inerrant natures of either of our scriptures is futile. Subsequent responses have immediately defaulted to attacks against the Bible, which shows me that as Muslims you have only one way of responding to a Bible believing Christian.

Certainly I agree that my previous post was an aggressive one, and I do apologize for my behaviour, however in fairness may I request that Biblical attacks from you guys be kept to a minimum and straight answers to my questions be given.

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no one dont need to repport anyone if the person does not insult people here

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The Bible tells the reader that it is not the author of confusion (1st Corinthians 14:33) however I notice that the typical Islamic response to the Bible is to cause confusion, and this is because the Bible is in direct opposition towards the Islamic document, which is the Koran. Therefore in order to make your religion fit, you have to argue against the Bible on one hand, whilst the other reaches out to the Christian that does not know the Koran to decieve them into believing that you worship the same God - and this is your problem, we don't. As a Christian I believe that we don't worship the same God, and I have the documentation to prove it (the Bible and the Koran), and as a Muslim you believe we worship the same God, yet have to falsify mine. One of us is deluded, and it's pretty obvious which one!

[at] andalusi ^ he is calling Muslims ( generally speaking ) deluded. This means deceptive, misleading, etc.

 

[at] xtremecheese *washes hands in basin* I am done here. When you want to speak civilly my messenger is open but I will not continue to post on this thread.

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This is why Jesus told us to baptise. Baptism is a sacrament for the forgivness of sins. Below is posted from the CCC on baptism.

 

here is a question for you ,is baptism only way for forgivness of sins?

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here is a question for you ,is baptism only way for forgivness of sins?

 

No it is not. Baptism is a one time event. It either happens as a child or adult. Baptism gives a clean slate so to speak. After that is confession, absolution, and pennance.

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No it is not. Baptism is a one time event. It either happens as a child or adult. Baptism gives a clean slate so to speak. After that is confession, absolution, and pennance.

 

ok, but in Islam , forgivness of sins, can be done in several way, like , if you convert to Islam and have all sins nothing good, your sins are then erased to 0, then you are sinless like a newborn baby, or if you do good deeds, so they knockout sins/wash out sins from your hearts, if you seek forgivness from God that also wash your heart from sins.

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ok, but in Islam , forgivness of sins, can be done in several way, like , if you convert to Islam and have all sins nothing good, your sins are then erased to 0, then you are sinless like a newborn baby, or if you do good deeds, so they knockout sins/wash out sins from your hearts, if you seek forgivness from God that also wash your heart from sins.

 

Honestly this does not sound much different than Christian theology.

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Honestly this does not sound much different than Christian theology.

 

that is how it is in Islam :yes:

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that is how it is in Islam :yes:

 

I freely admit that Islam and Christianty do share some things. But then at a point they seem to diverge from one another. Hence the situation that we are in. I mean the world the two largest religions whom share common ground yet not. Imagin if the world would unite under God and one religion.

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I freely admit that Islam and Christianty do share some things. But then at a point they seem to diverge from one another. Hence the situation that we are in. I mean the world the two largest religions whom share common ground yet not. Imagin if the world would unite under God and one religion.

 

JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY AND Islam are same religion on different levels.

 

in the begining, judaism was Islam, in the begining christianity(orginal teachings of jesus) was Islam, and finally Islamic relgion got it name during prophet Muhammed by God, not by humans.

 

Word judaism is not in bible or jewish holy scriptures, Moses did never heard word Judaism, Jesus never heard word Christianity in his lifetime.

 

Muhammed did not came with different ideology and relgion than jesus.

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JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY AND Islam are same religion on different levels.

 

in the begining, judaism was Islam, in the begining christianity(orginal teachings of jesus) was Islam, and finally Islamic relgion got it name during prophet Muhammed by God, not by humans.

 

Word judaism is not in bible or jewish holy scriptures, Moses did never heard word Judaism, Jesus never heard word Christianity in his lifetime.

 

Muhammed did not came with different ideology and relgion than jesus.

I will agree that they are the same on different levels and that Judaism, and Christianity are not words found in the Holy Books. As Christianity is meant as follower of Christ. I will not say Muhammeds message was at the core different but in how the message was convied. I don't want to sound like some Islamaphobe but Muhammed seemed to be much more agressive in handling those who oposed him. What I mean by this is Jesus taught to "turn the other cheek" (not one of my strong points). Muhammed seemed much more willing to fight those who oposed him. I am not saying he is or was a warmonger. That just seems to be one of the starkest differences I see.

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I will agree that they are the same on different levels and that Judaism, and Christianity are not words found in the Holy Books. As Christianity is meant as follower of Christ. I will not say Muhammeds message was at the core different but in how the message was convied. I don't want to sound like some Islamaphobe but Muhammed seemed to be much more agressive in handling those who oposed him. What I mean by this is Jesus taught to "turn the other cheek" (not one of my strong points). Muhammed seemed much more willing to fight those who oposed him. I am not saying he is or was a warmonger. That just seems to be one of the starkest differences I see.

 

 

I will not say Muhammeds message was at the core different but in how the message was convied

 

 

how was it convined , maybe like this

 

Quran:

(2:256)...there is no compulsion in religion

 

if God forbids muslims to force non-believers into Islam, how could Muhamed then force anyone to Islam.

 

 

 

I don't want to sound like some Islamaphobe but Muhammed seemed to be much more agressive in handling those who oposed him

 

let see

 

It used to be that a woman would wait, every morning, for the prophet to pass under her window. She would try - every morning - to throw her garbage from the window on him. The prophet never told anyone about this. One morning, he noticed she was not there. He inquired about her and was told that she was ill that day. So he went to visit her. When she saw him she said: "So, you have come to take your revenge on me". He said: "No, but God has commanded us to visit the sick".

 

 

it seems to me that you like to read lies about Islam from propaganda sites about Islam.

 

 

What I mean by this is Jesus taught to "turn the other cheek" (not one of my strong points).

 

let see

 

Jesus said:

 

<< Luke 19:27 >>

But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"

 

 

 

Muhammed seemed much more willing to fight those who oposed him. I am not saying he is or was a warmonger. That just seems to be one of the starkest differences I see.

 

let see that

 

 

The Forgiveness of Muhammad Shown to Non-Muslims

 

The Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, was described as a “Mercy for all the Worlds”, as God said in the Quran:

 

“We have sent you as a mercy for all the worlds.” (Quran 21:107)

 

The recipients of this quality were not limited to just the Muslim nation, but it also extended to non-Muslims, some of who spent all their effort trying to harm the Prophet and his mission. This mercy and forgiveness is clearly demonstrated in the fact that the Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, never took revenge on anyone for personal reasons and always forgave even his staunch enemies. Aisha said that the Prophet never took revenge on his own behalf on anyone. She also said that he never returned evil for evil, but he would forgive and pardon. This will, God willing, become clear after a deep analysis of the following accounts of his life.

 

In the earlier portion of his mission, the Prophet traveled to the city of Taif, a city located in the mountains nearby to Mecca, in order to invite them to accept Islam. The leaders of Taif, however, were rude and discourteous in their treatment of the Prophet. Not being content with their insolent attitude towards him, they even stirred up some gangs of the town to harass him. This riff-raff followed the Prophet shouting at and abusing him, and throwing stones at him, until he was compelled to take refuge in an orchard. Thus the Prophet had to endure even more obstacles in Taif than he had had to face in Mecca. These ruffians, stationed either side of the path, threw stones at him until his feet were injured and smeared with blood. These oppressions so grievously dejected the Prophet and plunged him into in such a state of depression that a prayer, citing his helplessness and pitiable condition and seeking the aid of God, spontaneously came from his lips:

 

“O God, to You I complain of my weakness, lack of resources and humiliation before these people. You are the Most Merciful, the Lord of the weak and my Master. To whom will You consign me? To one estranged, bearing ill will, or an enemy given power over me? If You do not assign me any worth, I care not, for Your favor is abundant upon me. I seek refuge in the light of Your countenance by which all darkness is dispelled and every affair of this world and the next is set right, lest Thy anger should descend upon me or Your displeasure light upon me. I need only Your pleasure and satisfaction for only You enable me to do good and evade the evil. There is no power and no might but You.”

 

The Lord then sent the angel of mountains, seeking the permission of the Prophet to join together the two hills and crush the city of Taif, between which it was located. Out of his great tolerance and mercy, the Messenger of God replied,

 

“No! For, I hope that God will bring forth from their loins people who will worship God alone, associating nothing with Him.” (Saheeh Muslim)

 

His mercy and compassion was so great that on more than one occasion, God, Himself, reprimanded him for it. One of the greatest opponents of Islam and a personal enemy, was Abdullah bin Ubayy, the leader of the hypocrites of Medina. Outwardly proclaiming Islam, he surreptitiously inflicted great harm to the Muslims and the mission of the Prophet. Knowing his state of affairs, the Prophet Muhammad still offered the funeral prayer for him and prayed to God for his forgiveness. The Quran mentions this incident in these words:

 

“And never (O Muhammad) pray for one of them who dies, nor stand by his grave. Lo! They disbelieve in God and His Messenger, and they died while they were evil doers.” (Quran 9:84)

 

Abdullah bin Ubayy worked all his life against Muhammad and Islam and left no stone unturned so as to bring him into disrepute and try to defeat his mission. He withdrew his three hundered supporters in the battle of Uhud and thus almost broke the backbone of the Muslims at one stroke. He engaged in intrigues and acts of hostility against the Prophet of Islam and the Muslims. It was he who tried to bring shame to the Prophet by inciting his allies to falsely accuse the Prophet’s wife, Aisha, of adultery in order to discredit him and his message.

 

The mercy of the Prophet even extended to those who brutally killed and then mutilated the body of his uncle Hamzah, one of the most beloved of people to the Prophet. Hamzah was one of the earliest to accept Islam and, through his power and position in the Quraishite hierarchy, diverted much harm from the Muslims. An Abyssinian slave of the wife of Abu Sufyan, Hind, sought out and killed Hamzah in the battle of Uhud. The night before the victory of Mecca, Abu Sufyan accepted Islam, fearing the vengeance of the Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him. The latter forgave him and sought no retribution for his years of enmity.

 

After Hind had killed Hamzah she mutilated his body by cutting his chest and tearing his liver and heart into pieces. When she quietly came to the Prophet and accepted Islam, he recognized her but did not say anything. She was so impressed by his magnanimity and stature that she said, “O Messenger of God, no tent was more deserted in my eyes than yours; but today no tent is more lovely in my eyes than yours.”

 

Ikrama, son of Abu Jahl, was a great enemy of the Prophet and Islam. He ran away after the victory of Mecca and went to Yemen. After his wife embraced Islam, she brought him to the Prophet Muhammad under her protection. He was so pleased to see him that he greeted him with the words:

 

“O emigrant rider, welcome.”

 

Safwan bin Umaya, one of the chiefs of Mecca, was also a great enemy of Muhammad and Islam. He promised a reward to Umair ibn Wahab if he managed to kill Muhammad. When Mecca was conquered, Safwan ran away to Jeddah in the hope of finding a berth that would take him to Yemen by sea. Umair ibn Wahab came to Muhammad and said, “O Messenger of God! Safwan ibn Umayya, a chief of his tribe, has run away from fear of what you might do to him and threatens to cast himself into the sea.” The Prophet sent him a guarantee of protection and, when he returned, he requested Muhammad to give him two months to come to a decision.. He was given four months, after which he became a Muslim by his own will.

 

Habir ibn al-Aswad was another vicious enemy of Muhammad and Islam. He inflicted a serious injury to Zainab, daughter of the Noble Prophet when she decided to migrate to Medina. She was pregnant when she started her migration, and the polytheists of Mecca tried to stop her from leaving. This particular man, Habbar bin al-Aswad, physically assaulted her and intentionally caused her to fall down from her camel. Her fall had caused her to miscarry her baby, and she herself, was badly hurt. He had committed many other crimes against Muslims as well. He wanted flee to Persia but, when he decided to come to Muhammad instead, the Prophet magnanimously forgave him.

 

The tribe of Quraish the were archenemies of Islam and, for a period of thirteen years while he was still in Mecca, they would rebuke the Prophet, taunt and mock him, beat him and abuse him, both physically and mentally. They placed the afterbirth of a camel on his back while he prayed, and they boycotted him and his tribe until the social sanctions became unbearable. They plotted and attempted to kill him on more than one occasion, and when the Prophet escaped to Medina, they rallied the majority of the Arab tribes and waged many wars against him. Yet, when he entered Mecca victorious with an army of 10,000, he did not take revenge on anyone. The Prophet said to the Quraish:

 

“O people of Quraish! What do you think I will do to you?

 

Hoping for a good response, they said: “You will do good. You are a noble brother, son of a noble brother.”

 

The Prophet then said:

 

“Then I say to you what Joseph said to his brothers: ‘There is no blame upon you.’ Go! For you all free!.”[1]

 

Rarely in the annals of history can we read such an instance of forgiveness. Even his deadliest enemy Abu Sufyan, who led so many battles against Islam, was forgiven, as was any person who stayed in his house and did not come to fight him.

 

The Prophet was all for forgiveness and no amount of crime or aggression against him was too great to be forgiven by him. He was the complete example of forgiveness and kindness, as mentioned in the following verse of the Quran:

 

“Keep to forgiveness (O Muhammad), and enjoin kindness, and turn away from the ignorant.” (Quran 7:199)

 

He always repelled evil with the good of forgiveness and kind behavior for, in his view, an antidote was better than poison. He believed and practiced the precept that love could foil hatred, and aggression could be won over by forgiveness. He overcame the ignorance of the people with the knowledge of Islam, and the folly and evil of the people with his kind and forgiving treatment. With his forgiveness, he freed people from the bondage of sin and crime, and also made them great friends of Islam. He was an epitome of the verse of the Quran:

 

“Good and evil are not alike. Repel evil with what is better. Then he, between whom and you there was hatred, will become as though he was a bosom friend.” (Quran 41:34)

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working man i have question for you...let see how much you know your own book :)

 

What does bible say about ressurection, after our death, does it say that we shall be ressurected with our bodies or just souls, spiritual ressurection on the day of Judgment??? Is paradise physical or just spiritual?

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working man i have question for you...let see how much you know your own book :)

 

What does bible say about ressurection, after our death, does it say that we shall be ressurected with our bodies or just souls, spiritual ressurection on the day of Judgment??? Is paradise physical or just spiritual?

 

Here is what is believed. You asked.

 

The Sacrament of Extreme Unction

 

It is appointed for men once to die and after this the judgment. (Heb. 9: 27)

All our life is a preparation for that moment when we leave it and go before God to hear the verdict that will decide the life that we are going to live forever after we have left this world. The most certain thing in life is that one day we must die. The most uncertain thing is when we shall die. There is no orderly queue. Sometimes we are expecting a person to die who is seriously ill and yet that person recovers and somebody else we know who was in perfectly good health dies quite unexpectedly.

It is natural to he afraid of death. But by God's help every man can face death with confidence and peace of mind.

What do we know about life after death? Is there in fact any life after death? We are certain that there is life after death on the word of God. God confirms what our unaided intelligence dimly yet strongly surmises.

The Soul Cannot Die

Our own reason and intelligence can give us good grounds for believing that when the body dies something in us lives on. Man is not just body, he is also spirit. He has a soul. The body is a material thing. When the life goes out of it, as we say, it falls into its separate parts. It drops to dust.

But there is something in us that is not a material thing, that cannot come apart, that cannot corrupt. How do we know?

You stand by the body of a friend who has died and you may be struck most of all by the fact of death. Everything seems finished. And yet if you think it over the conviction deepens that death is not the end.

You find a letter that your friend had written to you during his life. He had used paper and ink to capture his thoughts. But his thoughts were more than just paper and ink.

During his life he had spoken to you. His thoughts had been a sound in the air. But they were more than just a sound. Nor were they just a twist of a membrane in his head. They were more than just material things. There was something in him which paper and ink, sound, flesh and blood, even a brain could only roughly capture and express.

He had spoken, for example, of Justice, of Truth. But Justice and Truth are not material things. A material thing can be weighed, has a colour, a shape, can be measured. Even the material force that we call energy, such a thing as electricity, can be measured.

But who can measure Justice or Truth? These are ideas, spiritual things. You cannot say, "How long is justice?" "How wide is truth?" These things have no parts and so they cannot come apart. They cannot corrupt.

Now if a man can have spiritual ideas then there is something in him that is not material. And that something we call his soul. When the body dies the soul lives on.

The Bible

Even in the Bible in the Old Testament you will find phrases which show that the ancient Jews only learnt very slowly that life after death is more than just survival. You will find phrases like this:

 

Better a living dog than a dead lion... The dead know nothing more. They have said goodbye to this world and all its busy doings under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 9.)

But as the ages rolled on God gave more and more light. So if you take up the Book of Wisdom you can read these lovely words:

 

The souls of the just are in God's hands and no torment in death itself has power to reach them. Dead? Fools think so, think their end loss, their leaving us annihilation; but all is well with them. The world sees nothing but the pains they endure. They themselves have eyes only for what is immortal. So light their suffering, so great the gain they win. God all the while did but test them, and testing them found them worthy of Him . . . Trust Him if thou wilt, true thou shalt find Him; faith waits for Him calmly and lovingly. Who claims His gift, who shall attain peace, if not they His chosen servants? (Wisdom 3.)

When Our Lord came on earth He made it certain for us.

 

I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he is dead, will live on, and whoever has life and has faith in Me, to all eternity cannot die. (John 11: 25 – 26)

On another occasion He quoted from the words of the Old Testament:

 

Then at last, He said, the just will shine out clear as the sun in their Father's Kingdom. (Matt. 8.)

Their Father's Kingdom is Heaven. That is the home we are made for. What does it mean?

Heaven — What is It?

Heaven is to see, love and enjoy God forever in a state of perfect happiness.

 

Eye hath not seen nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man what things God hath prepared for them that love him, (1 Cor.2: 9.)

St. Paul puts it this way:

 

We see now through a glass in a dark manner but then face to face. Now I know in part; but then I shall know even as I am known. (1 Cor. 8: 12.)

St. John writes:

 

Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know that when He shall appear we shall be like to Him for we shall see Him as He is. (1 John 3: 2.)

To understand heaven we must try and understand those words: "We shall see Him as He is"— "then face to face." Sometimes people say; "How can anybody be happy forever?" One writer said: "I think three hundred years is as long as I should like to put up with. The Christians offer me an eternity of frustration".

He misses the point. This life here on earth is 40, 50, 70 years of frustration. But heaven is fulfilment. It is not something to be reckoned in years. It is one moment seized and kept.

The Resurrection of the Body

Christ promises us yet more. We are spirit. But we are body also. At death the soul, the spirit, goes at once to Heaven, to Purgatory or to Hell. At the last day the body will be re-united to the soul.

 

This is the will of Him Who sent me that all those who believe in the Son when they see Him should enjoy eternal life; 1 am to raise them up at the last day. (John 6: 40.)

Again:

 

The time is coming when all those who are in the graves will hear His voice and will come out of them, those whose actions have been good rising to new life and those whose doings have been evil rising to meet their sentence. (John 5: 29.)

St. Paul calls this risen body a spiritual body. It is still, of course, material otherwise it would not be a body. But by the power of God the material body will be given some spiritual qualities. It will no longer be subject to pain or weariness.

St. Paul says:

 

What is sown corruptible rises incorruptible. (I Cor. 15.)

And St. John:

 

He shall wipe away every tear from their eyes and there will be no more death or mourning or cries of distress, no more sorrow. Those old things have passed away. (Apocalypse 21.)

To see what it will be like read the Gospels and see what Christ's body was like when He rose from the dead. It was a real body. But raised above the material conditions of the world we know. So our bodies will be freed. Freed from the restrictions and limitations that their material nature now imposes on them.

We know this because Christ, head of the human race, led the way:

 

As all have died with Adam so with Christ all will be brought to life. But each must rise in his own rank; Christ is the first fruits and after Him follow those who belong to him, those who have put their trust in His return…His reign as we know must continue until He has put all His enemies under His feet, and the last of those enemies to be dispossessed is death. (I Cor. 15.)

Judgment

But we do not go to heaven automatically. Whether we win heaven or lose it depends on the life we have led.

 

After death the judgment. (Hebrews 9.)

We call the judgment immediately after death the Particular Judgment. At the last day will come the Final Judgment when every man's life will be revealed to the whole world and at last the whole plan of God's providence will be made clear.

 

When the Son of Man shall come in His majesty and all the angels With Him He shall say to them that shall be on His right hand. Come ye blessed of My Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you... Then he shall say to them also that shall be on His left hand: Depart from Me you cursed into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matt.

Hell

We have already spoken of Hell in the lesson on Sin (Lesson 12). It is enough to repeat here that Hell is real and that Hell is everlasting and that Our Lord continually warns His hearers that if they do not choose to love and serve God, and die in that state of mind, then they have themselves chosen eternal misery.

God made us to be happy with Him forever in Heaven. If we choose against Him we have rejected the one thing that can make us eternally happy and we are therefore doomed to eternal unhappiness.

Hell is a mystery just as Heaven is a mystery. But it is quite certain because we have the word of Christ for it.

Purgatory

It is Catholic teaching that there is a third state after death. Not everlasting like heaven and hell but temporary. We call it Purgatory, which means the place of cleaning. It is a place where souls suffer for a time after death on account of their sins.

This is one of the tenderest and most consoling of Catholic doctrines. A person dies a friend of God and yet having a certain debt of punishment to pay for sins committed in the past. Which of us could claim to die absolutely pure of sin? We do not know exactly what the sufferings of the souls in Purgatory consist in. What is certain is that they are friends of God, that they love God and that they are happy to be in Purgatory so that they may go to God pure of sin and so be ready and fit to enter His presence and to enjoy Him.

We on earth can help them by our prayers.

 

It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from sins. (2 Machabees 7: 46.)

And it has been the custom of Christians ever since the earliest days to pray in this way for their friends. A prayer we often say is:

 

"Eternal rest give unto them O Lord and let perpetual light shine upon them. May they rest in peace. Amen."

The Last Sacraments

How does the Church help us to prepare for death? If you look – in the obituary columns of the newspaper you will often see after name of a Catholic who has died:

 

Fortified by the rites of Holy Mother Church.

These rites we sometimes call the Last Sacraments. When a person is gravely ill Catholics send for the priest. The priest hears the sick man's confession and gives him Holy Communion. (We call this Holy Communion Holy Viaticum, which means food for a journey.)

Then the priest administers the Sacrament of Extreme Unction which means the last anointing. You find it mentioned in the fifth chapter of St. James's Epistle:

 

Is anyone sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord, And the prayer of faith shall save the sick man and the Lord shall raise him up and if he be in sins they shall be forgiven him. (James 5.)

Oil signifies strength and in this sacrament the anointing with oil is given a special power by God to give the strength which is needed for our last moments. When we approach the solemn moment of death we shall need special strength and grace to keep us firm in faith, in hope and love of God.

Not infrequently this Sacrament even restores a person to health. Doctors, nurses and priests could tell of many instances. Certainly non-Catholics are often astonished to find what peace of mind this Sacrament gives to the sick.

But the most important effect of the Sacrament is, of course, the grace of God, the special grace which is needed for our last moments.

What the priest does is to make the sign of the cross with the holy oil (it is blessed by the bishop on Holy Thursday) on the eyes, ears, nostrils, lips, hands and feet of the dying person saying:

"By this holy anointing and by His most loving mercy may the Lord forgive thee whatever thou hast committed by sight, by hearing, etc."

The Last Blessing

After this the priest gives a special blessing and if the sick person is truly sorry for sin, has confessed his sins and received Holy Communion, then the blessing takes effect at the moment of death and wipes out all the punishment still due to sin. So that we may have every hope that the person who dies with the Last Sacraments goes straight to heaven.

We cannot be certain in any individual case because the effect of the Sacraments and the blessing will vary to some extent according to the dispositions, the good will of the person receiving them. But we may have good hope that a person who has done his best to repent of his sins and to love God may receive the full effect of the last rites

A Happy Death

This death of a good Catholic is a masterpiece. A Catholic who has lived his life in the love of God has learnt to accept death and any sufferings that may accompany it in union with the death and sufferings of Our Lord. You will hear a good Catholic on his death-bed saying from time to time:

 

All for Thee, O Jesus

and bearing even the most bitter suffering with patience and peace of mind.

What we should do is to prepare for death by a good life and then face it with confidence. Man is the only creature who knows he will die. The Faith helps us to die like a man and like a son of God.

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All I can say is I wish there was a emocon of a head beating it self into a brick wall on this thread. Your Islamic filter is so high that is what I feel like I am doing. I can put up verses till I am blue in the face or church doctorine till the cows come home (since I don't have any cows could be a while). I have concluded that this is completely pointless. I am a Catholic Christian and that is that. I will post exactly what all that means for you. But after this I think I am done here for a while with this stuff.

Apostles' Creed:

Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem, Creatorem caeli et terrae. Et in Iesum Christum, Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum, qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto, natus ex Maria Virgine, passus sub Pontio Pilato, crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus, descendit ad infernos, tertia die resurrexit a mortuis, ascendit ad caelos, sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis, inde venturus est iudicare vivos et mortuos. Credo in Spiritum Sanctum, sanctam Ecclesiam catholicam, sanctorum communionem, remissionem peccatorum, carnis resurrectionem, vitam aeternam. Amen.

 

or

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

 

Nicene Creed

Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, factorem caeli et terrae,visibilium omnium et invisibilium.

Et in unum Dominum Iesum Christum, Filium Dei unigenitum, et ex Patre natum ante omnia saecula. Deum de Deo, Lumen de Lumine, Deum verum de Deo vero, genitum non factum, consubstantialem Patri; per quem omnia facta sunt.

Qui propter nos homines et propter nostram salutem descendit de caelis. Et incarnatus est de Spiritu Sancto ex Maria Virgine, et homo factus est.

Crucifixus etiam pro nobis sub Pontio Pilato, passus et sepultus est, et resurrexit tertia die, secundum Scripturas, et ascendit in caelum, sedet ad dexteram Patris.

Et iterum venturus est cum gloria, iudicare vivos et mortuos, cuius regni non erit finis.

Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem, qui ex Patre Filioque procedit.

Qui cum Patre et Filio simul adoratur et conglorificatur: qui locutus est per prophetas.

Et unam, sanctam, catholicam et apostolicam Ecclesiam.

Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. Et expecto resurrectionem mortuorum, et vitam venturi saeculi. Amen.

 

or

 

I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father; through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. He was made flesh by the Holy Spirit from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; suffered, and was buried. On the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures; He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and of His kingdom there shall be no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Who, with the Father and the Son, is adored and glorified: Who has spoken through the Prophets.

And I believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic Church.

I confess one baptism for the remission of sins. And I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the age to come. Amen.

 

Athanasian Creed

Quicumque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est, ut teneat Catholicam fidem: Quam nisi quisque integram inviolatamque servaverit, absque dubio in aeternam peribit.

Fides autem catholica haec est: ut unum Deum in Trinitate, et Trinitatem in unitate veneremur. Neque confundentes personas, neque substantiam seperantes. Alia est enim persona Patris alia Filii, alia Spiritus Sancti: Sed Patris, et Fili, et Spiritus Sancti una est divinitas, aequalis gloria, coeterna maiestas. Qualis Pater, talis Filius, talis Spiritus Sanctus. Increatus Pater, increatus Filius, increatus Spiritus Sanctus. Immensus Pater, immensus Filius, immensus Spiritus Sanctus. Aeternus Pater, aeternus Filius, aeternus Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres aeterni, sed unus aeternus. Sicut non tres increati, nec tres immensi, sed unus increatus, et unus immensus. Similiter omnipotens Pater, omnipotens Filius, omnipotens Spiritus Sanctus.Et tamen non tres omnipotentes, sed unus omnipotens. Ita Deus Pater, Deus Filius, Deus Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres dii, sed unus est Deus.

Ita Dominus Pater, Dominus Filius, Dominus Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres Domini, sed unus est Dominus. Quia, sicut singillatim unamquamque personam Deum ac Dominum confiteri christiana veritate compelimur: ita tres Deos aut Dominos dicere catholica religione prohibemur. Pater a nullo est factus: nec creatus, nec genitus. Filius a Patre solo est: non factus, nec creatus, sed genitus. Spiritus Sanctus a Patre et Filio: non factus, nec creatus, nec genitus, sed procedens. Unus ergo Pater, non tres Patres: unus Filius, non tres Filii: unus Spiritus Sanctus, non tres Spiritus Sancti.

Et in hac Trinitate nihil prius aut posterius, nihil maius aut minus: sed totae tres personae coaeternae sibi sunt et coaequales. Ita ut per omnia, sicut iam supra dictum est, et unitas in Trinitate, et Trinitas in unitate veneranda sit. Qui vult ergo salvus esse, ita de Trinitate sentiat. Sed necessarium est ad aeternam salutem, ut incarnationem quoque Domini nostri Jesu Christi fideliter credat. Est ergo fides recta ut credamus et confiteamur, quia Dominus noster Jesus Christus, Dei Filius, Deus et homo est.

Deus est ex substantia Patris ante saecula genitus: et homo est ex substantia matris in saeculo natus. Perfectus Deus, perfectus homo: ex anima rationali et humana carne subsistens. Aequalis Patri secundum divinitatem: minor Patre secundum humanitatem. Qui licet Deus sit et homo, non duo tamen, sed unus est Christus. Unus autem non conversione divinitatis in carnem, sed assumptione humanitatis in Deum. Unus omnino, non confusione substantiae, sed unitate personae. Nam sicut anima rationalis et caro unus est homo: ita Deus et homo unus est Christus. Qui passus est pro salute nostra: descendit ad inferos: tertia die resurrexit a mortuis. Ascendit ad caelos, sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis: inde venturus est iudicare vivos et mortuos. Ad cuius adventum omnes homines resurgere habent cum corporibus suis: et reddituri sunt de factis propriis rationem. Et qui bona egerunt, ibunt in vitam aeternam: qui vero mala, in ignem aeternum.

Haec est fides catholica, quam nisi quisque fideliter firmiterque crediderit, salvus esse non poterit. Amen.

 

or

 

Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith. For unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire he will undoubtedly be lost forever. This is what the Catholic faith teaches: we worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity. We distinguish among the persons, but we do not divide the substance. For the Father is a distinct person; the Son is a distinct person; and the Holy Spirit is a distinct person.

Still the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have one divinity, equal glory, and coeternal majesty. What the Father is, the Son is, and the Holy Spirit is. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, and the Holy Spirit is uncreated. The Father is boundless, the Son is boundless, and the Holy Spirit is boundless. The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, and the Holy Spirit is eternal.

Nevertheless, there are not three eternal beings, but one eternal being. Thus there are not three uncreated beings, nor three boundless beings, but one uncreated being and one boundless being. Likewise, the Father is omnipotent, the Son is omnipotent, and the Holy Spirit is omnipotent. Yet there are not three omnipotent beings, but one omnipotent being. Thus the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. But there are not three gods, but one God. The Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, and the Holy Spirit is Lord. There as not three lords, but one Lord. For according to Christian truth, we must profess that each of the persons individually is God; and according to Christian religion we are forbidden to say that there are three gods or lords. The Father is not made by anyone, nor created by anyone, nor generated by anyone. The Son is not made nor created, but he is generated by the Father alone. The Holy Spirit is not made nor created nor generated, but proceeds from the Father and the Son.

There is, then, one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, but not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits. In this Trinity, there is nothing greater, nothing less than anything else. But the entire three persons are coeternal and coequal with one another. So that, as we have said, we worship complete unity in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity.

This, then, is what he who wishes to be saved must believe about the Trinity. It is also necessary for eternal salvation that he believes steadfastly in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. The true faith is: we believe and profess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and man. As God He was begotten of the substance of the Father before time; as man He was born in time of the substance of His Mother. He is perfect God; and He is perfect man, with a rational soul and human flesh. He is equal to the Father in His divinity, but He is inferior to the Father in His humanity. Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ. And He is one, not because His divinity was changed into flesh, but because His humanity was assumed to God. He is one, not at all because of a mingling of substances, but because He is one person. As a rational soul and flesh are one man: so God and man are one Christ.

He died for our salvation, descended to hell, arose from the dead on the third day. Ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty, and from there He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At His coming, all men are to arise with their own bodies; and they are to give an account of their lives. Those who have done good deeds will go into eternal life; those who have done evil will go into everlasting fire.

This is the Catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved. Amen.

Any Catholic questions can be looked up here. http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm It is the CCC

 

for proper scriptural references use this link here. http://www.latinvulgate.com/

 

Other than that I feel no need for further discussion. I am sure this post will get taken down as it will be taken as I am preaching another faith. All I am doing is laying out the Catholic faith and what I believe as is needed. I bid you all good day and God Bless.

 

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen

 

or

 

In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy spirit.

 

p.s. if you wish to continue further conversations you will beable to find me on this forum under the same screen name. http://forums.catholic.com/index.php

 

I also left my pm's on for this sight.

Edited by workingman

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