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working man i have question for you...let see how much you know your own book :)

 

What does bible say about ressurection, after our death, does it say that we shall be ressurected with our bodies or just souls, spiritual ressurection on the day of Judgment??? Is paradise physical or just spiritual?

 

Workingman,

 

The reason why andalusi is asking you this question is because he plans to hit you with Ahmed Deedat’s objection. You see most of andalusi’s arguments are not his but comes from his hero Ahmed Deedat.

 

Sit back and watch his response...

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The Last Blessing

After this the priest gives a special blessing and if the sick person is truly sorry for sin, has confessed his sins and received Holy Communion, then the blessing takes effect at the moment of death and wipes out all the punishment still due to sin. So that we may have every hope that the person who dies with the Last Sacraments goes straight to heaven.

We cannot be certain in any individual case because the effect of the Sacraments and the blessing will vary to some extent according to the dispositions, the good will of the person receiving them. But we may have good hope that a person who has done his best to repent of his sins and to love God may receive the full effect of the last rites

 

when it comes to ressurection Islam say the same, soul and body shall be ressurected.

 

but this part, when you have to confess your sins in front of priest so he can forgive you that, it is tehre you can see superioroty of Islam, beacuse you can in Islam only confess sins to God, and ask God for forgivness, not imams, not priests, people cant forgive you sins, only God can do that,

 

and when you ask priest for forgivness you make them as God, beacuse that is caracteristic of God, to forgive sins, nobody else.

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Workingman,

 

The reason why andalusi is asking you this question is because he plans to hit you with Ahmed Deedat’s objection. You see most of andalusi’s arguments are not his but comes from his hero Ahmed Deedat.

 

Sit back and watch his response...

 

You see most of andalusi’s arguments are not his but comes from his hero Ahmed Deedat.

 

but from where does Deedat copy his arguments, guess from where

 

....from the Bible....

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but from where does Deedat copy his arguments, guess from where

 

....from the Bible....

 

According to his misguided subjective interpretation of the bible that you conveniently borrow from your hero.

Edited by CarlosTheJackal

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According to his misguided subjective interpretation of the bible that you conveniently burrow from your hero.

 

i have studied both his and your christian arguments, and by God, his is far more logical than christian's arguments. i am in position to judge you and deedat beacuse i study your argument and his arguments, and byu God he has knocked out every christian in debate with them, just watch his debates and you will see why.

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i have studied both his and your christian arguments, and by God, his is far more logical than christian's arguments. i am in position to judge you and deedat beacuse i study your argument and his arguments, and byu God he has knocked out every christian in debate with them, just watch his debates and you will see why.

 

I have seen many of his debates.

  • He takes verses out of context.
  • He does not take into consideration the culture, the intention of the writer, the use of language etc.
  • He bases his arguments with assumption e.g. he accused St John of borrowing the term “The Word” referring to Jesus from Philo with no proof or references.
  • He attacks the Protestant line of reasoning which is a waste of time because they have only been around for the past 500 years or so.
  • He got a few Christian doctrines wrong which shows his lack of understanding of the Christian faith e.g. he said Christians believe the Trinity is not three persons but one person which is completely non-Christian belief.

 

Shall I continue? Good luck if you think Ahmed’s reasoning is logical because I don’t...

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It makes perfect sense why we need a saviour and why Jesus came.

 

Actually it proves how illogical Islam is; Allah forgives you of sin without the proper atonement due for sin. Your god is not a just god although you claim him to be which is a clear contradiction...that’s illogical my friend.

 

Sorry- how is Islam more illogical- Allah won't hold a Muslim sinful on account of someone else! Whereas Xianity does- you are taught that you're born in sin- even if you never did anything sinful!!

 

In Islam you bear your own sin- if you repent, Allah will forgive you- no one bears the burden of another.

 

On paper I would instantly pick the Islamic understanding over the Xian one even if I was not fully versed on religions- i would use common sense.

 

Does the law hold the parents to account for the robbery their child commits?? Using your logic, they should! :-O

Edited by The Doc
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I have seen many of his debates.

  • He takes verses out of context.
  • He does not take into consideration the culture, the intention of the writer, the use of language etc.
  • He bases his arguments with assumption e.g. he accused St John of borrowing the term “The Word” referring to Jesus from Philo with no proof or references.
  • He attacks the Protestant line of reasoning which is a waste of time because they have only been around for the past 500 years or so.
  • He got a few Christian doctrines wrong which shows his lack of understanding of the Christian faith e.g. he said Christians believe the Trinity is not three persons but one person which is completely non-Christian belief.

 

Shall I continue? Good luck if you think Ahmed’s reasoning is logical because I don’t...

 

 

He takes verses out of context.

 

let SEE who really take verses out of context, deedat or christians, look here

 

He got a few Christian doctrines wrong which shows his lack of understanding of the Christian faith e.g. he said Christians believe the Trinity is not three persons but one person which is completely non-Christian belief.

 

who are you trying to fool man, i know bible very well and your christian ideology, you cant fool me

 

EVIDENCE, HERE:

 

copied from

The Trinity – Catechism of the Catholic Church

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/apologetics/trinity/the-trinity-catechism-of-the-catholic-church/

 

 

253. "The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the 'consubstantial Trinity'. [Council of Constantinople II (553): DS 421.] The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: 'The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God.' [Council of Toledo XI (675): DS 530:26.] In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), 'Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature.' [Lateran Council IV (1215): DS 804.]"

 

 

"The Holy Spirit is thus revealed as another divine person with Jesus and the Father."

 

and

 

"and by the Son in person,"

 

and

 

"the third person of the Trinity, is God"

 

1+1+1=1 OR (FATHER + SON + HOLY GHOST)=GOD

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who are you trying to fool man, i know bible very well and your christian ideology, you cant fool me

 

EVIDENCE, HERE:

 

copied from

The Trinity – Catechism of the Catholic Church

http://www.catholicn...atholic-church/

 

 

253. "The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the 'consubstantial Trinity'. [Council of Constantinople II (553): DS 421.] The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: 'The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God.' [Council of Toledo XI (675): DS 530:26.] In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), 'Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature.' [Lateran Council IV (1215): DS 804.]"

 

Read my post carefully, I said Ahmed Deedat claims the Trinity is not three persons but one person. There’s a difference in saying the Trinity is one and the Trinity is one person…go figure out the difference.

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Sorry- how is Islam more illogical- Allah won't hold a Muslim sinful on account of someone else! Whereas Xianity does- you are taught that you're born in sin- even if you never did anything sinful!!

 

In Islam you bear your own sin- if you repent, Allah will forgive you- no one bears the burden of another.

 

On paper I would instantly pick the Islamic understanding over the Xian one even if I was not fully versed on religions- i would use common sense.

 

Does the law hold the parents to account for the robbery their child commits?? Using your logic, they should! :-O

 

So what you’re saying is Allah will forgive me regardless if my finite atonement is inadequate to pay for the infinite offence I commit when I sin. Yeah I can see the logic in that…not!

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Read my post carefully, I said Ahmed Deedat claims the Trinity is not three persons but one person. There’s a difference in saying the Trinity is one and the Trinity is one person…go figure out the difference.

 

man, you christian people are really illogical, make up your mind , you you really want it... :no:

 

if Catechism say The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons,

 

this is same, if God is person, then

 

but one Person(God) in three persons....i think my brain would explode to explain this, how can you believe such stuff man????

this is impossible to understand.

 

Why dont you believe like we muslims and jews believe, 1 God, and that is all, no 3 person, no trinity and stuff like that wich kills your brain cells.

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So what you’re saying is Allah will forgive me regardless if my finite atonement is inadequate to pay for the infinite offence I commit when I sin. Yeah I can see the logic in that…not!

 

Allah will only forgive you if you ask him for his forgivness, SINCERLY.

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Alright you want to speak in logical terms, I’m sure you have heard of this law:

 

“For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction”.

 

Every time we sin we offend God, hence it’s an infinite offence. If God simply forgives sin because you ask him sincerely then he would be neglecting the infinite atonement due which is the opposite and reversal of the infinite offence, thereby neglecting the justice due to him. You see, you have a flaw in your theology. Perfectly sound reasoning.

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Alright you want to speak in logical terms, I’m sure you have heard of this law:

 

“For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction”.

 

Every time we sin we offend God, hence it’s an infinite offence. If God simply forgives sin because you ask him sincerely then he would be neglecting the infinite atonement due which is the opposite and reversal of the infinite offence, thereby neglecting the justice due to him. You see, you have a flaw in your theology. Perfectly sound reasoning.

 

i let him speak about this

 

 

The Mercy of Allah in Regard to Forgiveness

 

Allah said in Hadith Qudsi:

 

"O son of Adam(Human being), as long as you call upon Me and put your hope in Me, I have forgiven you for what you have done and I do not mind. O son of Adam(Human being), if your sins were to reach the clouds of the sky and then you would seek My forgiveness, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, if you were to come to Me with sins that are close to filling the earth and then you would meet Me without ascribing any partners with Me, I would certainly bring to you forgiveness close to filling it."

 

In this Hadithi Qudsi, Allah gives hope to mankind more than any other narration. It displays the quality and attribute of Allahs mercy. Indeed, He is ar-Rahman, the Most Compassionate, and ar-Raheem, the Most Merciful. In this Hadithi Qudsi, Allah tells man of the greatness of His forgiveness and mercy so that no one would despair due to the amount of sins he may have committed. This is supported by the following verse of the Holy Quran:

 

Say: O My servants who have transgressed against their own souls, despair not of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Surah az-Zumar 39:53)

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To ask sincerely for forgiveness is not an infinite atonement.

 

An infinite offence requires an infinite atonement. For God to simply forgive is not an equal and opposite reaction of an infinite offence.

Jesus the divine person offered a perfect and infinite atonement for our sins

 

Do you know what Jesus’ greatest suffering was? It wasn’t the crucifixion, it was ungrateful men who do not believe that he suffered and died for them. Mohammed has greatly offended God by teaching men that Jesus did not suffer and die for their salvation.

 

Repent my friend and believe in what Jesus has done for you then you will be saved, do not offend God any further…

Edited by CarlosTheJackal

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To ask sincerely for forgiveness is not an infinite atonement.

 

An infinite offence requires an infinite atonement. For God to simply forgive is not an equal and opposite reaction of an infinite offence.

Jesus the divine person offered a perfect and infinite atonement for our sins

 

Do you know what Jesus’ greatest suffering was? It wasn’t the crucifixion, it was ungrateful men who do not believe that he suffered and died for them. Mohammed has greatly offended God by teaching men that Jesus did not suffer and die for their salvation.

 

Repent my friend and believe in what Jesus has done for you then you will be saved, do not offend God any further…

 

Jesus the divine person offered a perfect and infinite atonement for our sins

 

but you bible denies that jesus died for us, so why do you go against your own book?

 

<< Deuteronomy 24:16 >>

Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

 

this is justice, this is logic, wich you christian try to destroy with your christian ideology, you just like to confuse yourself and the people.

 

What about that police put you in jail beacuse some man robbed a bank? what about that?

Edited by andalusi

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Any Muslim in this forum that claims Islam teaches tolerance towards non-believers is either ignorant or a downright liar.

 

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."

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Mohammed is the antichrist

 

“Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.” – 1 John2:22

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Watch this Muslim sheikh loses debate badly...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDkQUg_JrNk

 

this muslims makes mistakes and you say now, Islam is wrong, it cant be true relgion of God.

 

why dont you post real debate between that person Sam Shamoun and a learned muslim man Shabir Ally, then you will see who loses badly

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Any Muslim in this forum that claims Islam teaches tolerance towards non-believers is either ignorant or a downright liar.

 

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."

 

that is intelectual fighting, like we have here

 

beacuse you dont know Islam you missunderstood it, in quran there are two different fighting, fighting with sword and fighting with intelect/brain/debating with arguments.

 

evidence:

 

God says in quran:

 

25:52 so do not give in to the disbelievers: strive hard against them with this Quran.

 

here we see that striving/fighting with quran is intelectual battle like we have now

 

proof that this is correct thinking is also this verse

 

God says:

 

Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

 

you shall not interpretate quran on your own if you dont udnerstand it.

Edited by andalusi

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Mohammed is the antichrist

 

“Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.” – 1 John2:22

 

now you have become a liar, so why do you lie man, you say that Muhammed denied that jesus is antichrist

 

let have a look

 

Quran

003.045

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;

 

4:171

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

 

so how can you say that Muhammed denied jesus as christ when you all can see that quran say that jesus is christ? why do you lie man, why do you embrass yourself???

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Brother CarlosTheJackal,

 

Don’t bother mate, I’ve refuted and cornered Muslims in this forum using the same argument. Andalusi is acting like a typical Muslim apologist; since he cannot explain forgiveness without atonement he has switched tactics. Usually when Muslims are cornered with this argument they counter attack by saying everyone is responsible for their own sins which shows how little they know about Christian theology and conveniently avoid answering satisfactory how God could forgive without atonement.

 

Fortunately for Muslims I have found a satisfactory answer on their behalf. Muslims believe God wills both good and evil (click here for further reading). It may seem like a contradiction to us Christians but in Islamic theology Allah does not have an essence. Allah is the unknowable. We Christians have been taught by divine revelation that God’s essence is love, fatherhood etc. whereas the 99 attributes of Allah is something that he does not what he is.

 

Thus since Allah does not have an essence he can do as he pleases, that includes forgiveness without atonement for sins.

 

I know what you’re thinking...this kind of Islamic theology is a cop out just like pointing the finger at Jews and Christians and accusing them for corrupting the scripture is a cop out. Let it be brother, they will not change they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.” – Luke 16:31

 

God bless,

 

 

Andalusi is acting like a typical Muslim apologist; since he cannot explain forgiveness without atonement he has switched tactics.

 

according to Islam, you have to repent to God, not to a priest like you christian do in church confessing sins, you can only confess sins to God, and ask him for forgivness, and follow his laws, and stay away from sins, then you can hope for paradise.

 

you confess your sins to priests we muslims confess our sins to God. you make priest in a position of God who forgive sins.

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