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Muslims 4 Liberty

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On Facebook one can find this title, "Muslims 4 liberty" the individual running said organization is a fellow Muslim who is from the southern United States. Together we are trying to organize Muslims across the states to give a voice to Muslims. This will be a voice that can be used to show the current candidates who we are as Muslims instead of having extremist constantly be the voice heard in the media. We are also looking to give this group a voice against said extremists to show that we as Muslims do not condone the actions of the murder of civilians ( whether it is done by governments or by so called jihadists ) .....

 

as part of taking said stand we are wanting to organize a nationwide day where Muslims will gather in uniform protest against the so called jihadists and show the biased media of this country that we will be heard and that they can no longer block our voice. If groups like Occupy and the Tea Party can make their voice heard despite media bias then so can we.

 

Will you join us?

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As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

 

It is an amitious idea. One thing I would like to point out is to make it clear that it is against people who murder civilians because there are brothers who are engaged in Jihad in the path of Allah but they also get labeled as terrorists. Jihadist has become pretty much synonomous with terrorist while that is not the case. So don't become a "sell-out" and lump everybody in the terrorist category or claim that Muslims are against all fighting or sugargoat things.

 

You should also know that the US is huge. Organizing a nationwide event is not easy over there. So don't get disappointed if it does not pan out as you planned.

 

I think this can be a good idea but it is a bit hard to implement, to organize.

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If non-Muslims can do it why not us?

 

The prophet taught against the killing of civilians regardless of cause so no I don't care what their cause is or who they are. You show me a group who is not busy telling people to commit suicide, kill other Muslims, or kill non combatants and maybe I will listen. So far groups like Al Qaeda and Taliban have spoken for themselves making it quite clear what their actual purpose is.

 

If you want to be a naysayer then you have contributed nothing but talk. Frankly I am growing weary of the talk. It is time for action, to get a voice heard. If you ain't part of the solution you are part of the problem.

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As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

 

Whoa, take a step-back, brother. This is not the reaction I expected. All I said is that don't use amibigious terms and don't sugarcoat anything. Nothing wrong with that. I agree that killing civilians is murder and you can protest against that. However, even people who don't kill civilians and fight actual soliders are labelled terrorists for the sake of convinience.

 

Another thing you should realise is that not all groups are homogenous. What does this mean? It means that there might be both actual, valid fighters and terrorists in the same group. This is often the case with fighting bodies that don't have a centralized command. This fact goes for pretty much any army or fighting force. Not everybody obeys the rules. Valid fighters thus become guilty by association. Not all groups are comprised of al-Qaida and the Taleban, although that might be what some people want to portray because that is convenient.

 

My point is don't end up condemning the concept of valid fighting in Allah's path as well.

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assalamo alykom,

i agree, the main problem will be chosing the "labels/ Terminologys", that suppose to satisfy both Islamic and western cultures. for sure it suppose not to be I'm Moslem I'm against JIhad or Jihadist" since from Islamic point of view and Islamic deffenitions, both have the highest rank in Islam teachings,

 

[at]وَمَا لَكُمْ لاَ تُقَاتِلُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ وَالْمُسْتَضْعَفِينَ مِنَ الرِّجَالِ وَالنِّسَاء وَالْوِلْدَانِ الَّذِينَ يَقُولُونَ رَبَّنَا أَخْرِجْنَا مِنْ هَـذِهِ الْقَرْيَةِ

الظَّالِمِ أَهْلُهَا وَاجْعَل لَّنَا مِن لَّدُنكَ وَلِيًّا وَاجْعَل لَّنَا مِن لَّدُنكَ نَصِيرًا {75

004.075 Y: And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"

 

I'm Muslem I'm against killing civilians......seems good with a small legal exceptions [the black water civilians or contractors in the battle area/ he Serb killers in Bosnia also were mostly civilians!!!!]

I'm Muslem I'm against Terrorism......seems good with some differences [based on what deffenition belong to what authority??]

 

مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَى بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَن قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ

النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَلَقَدْ جَاء تْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالبَيِّنَاتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنْهُم بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ فِي الأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ {32

 

005.032 Y: On that account: We ordained for the Children of israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

 

I'm Muslem I'm against killing Innocents

 

"if any one slew an innocent person, it would be as if he slew the whole people" Holy Quran [5-32]

 

"if any one saved an innocent life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people" Holy Quran [5-32]

 

 

i believe all of us have to support the idea while the main efforts is to choose the labels!!

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As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

 

Brother Ahmad got what I was trying to say. It all depends on labels. For example, "terrorism" is an ambigious term. To some everything and anything done by Muslims is terrorism even if it just normal warfare conducted against soldiers. "Innocent" is also an ambigious term. To the Muslim, an innocent is somebody who is not allowed to be killed under Allah's law. To the non-Muslim, "innocent" can mean something totally different.

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wa lykom assalam wa rahmat Allah, brother

 

any how, thinking about the proper "signs/watchwards" suppose not to hinder such good project. i mean a little "arguable" signs still better than obseleting such project. let me try to help what could be the required steps to complete such idea,

1- launching a compitition/dialoge to choose the main signs and the proper design of it [to be printed on T-shirts and prochoures and or a labeled peice of textile to be wore over the cloth]

2- comunicating/gathering the "Islamic Orgnizations", "Main Islamic Doners", "supporters"

3- choosing the day/weather/Goma'a day relative advantages....

4- propaganda compain to collect more supporters..the best use of the net and forums

5- orgnize the cloth manufacturing/distrubuting/price

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I have no desire to corporatize this campaign for starters and for second while I appreciate the efforts on ya'lls part this is an American campaign for American Muslims as this is an American problem.

 

I understand what you are trying to say but the people here know where we are coming from. In traditional terms anyone who is armed and killing is a combatant and thus does not fit the term originally used, "non-combatant."

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So far groups like Al Qaeda and Taliban have spoken for themselves making it quite clear what their actual purpose is.

 

 

Two questions:

 

1) What is their actual purpose?

2) What civilians have the Taliban killed? Which "terrorist" attack has the Taliban been involved in?

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as part of taking said stand we are wanting to organize a nationwide day where Muslims will gather in uniform protest against the so called jihadists

 

Also, why don't you guys also protest against the US governments killing of innocent Muslims around the world? Why only protest against Jihadi groups?

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a) the problems with the U.S. government run far deeper than you can even begin to fathom as an outsider...

b) going against the jihadi first is a means of showing who we are and what we represent thus bringing further attention to the group and getting better backing from the non-Muslims then when you have the backing and sympathy of non-Muslims can one begin to take a stand against the U.S. government

c) Taliban knowingly kill civilians and hold people hostage as a means of trying to say they are "freedom fighters" You speak against the U.S. government and then back a group that is knowingly financed by them.

 

In order to make such suggestions you have to understand what the mindset of the people in the U.S. is and clearly you do not so if you are not going to actually contribute something to help the organization why not just stop wasting yours and my time?

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Well brother, you don't have to respond to me if you think I'm wasting your time.

 

Anyway, the reason why I asked you the 2 questions (which you have avoided) is because you don't even know about these groups but you keep speaking about them. The Taliban have NEVER been involved in ANY so called "terrorist" attack. Even Obama will tell you that. They are just resisting foreign invasion of their land(Afghanistan). Yet you accuse them of killing civilians. Al-Qaeda on the other hand have attacked civilian targets, I agree, and my point is if you are going to condemn Al-Qaeda for it then condemn the US government as well. Why the double standards?

 

And you say: "groups like Al Qaeda and Taliban have spoken for themselves making it quite clear what their actual purpose is"..

 

..well then tell me what their purpose is? Do you even know what their purpose is? I might not know much about the US government as an outsider but you also have absolutely no idea about the Islamic World and the players fighting for it.

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just recently in the paper there was an attack on several civilians and Afghanistan police in a known Taliban controlled area... <- this is what I was waiting for, the chance to give a real life example of something I had read about just recently.

 

Now as for your whole go after the U.S. thing... in order to be truly effective as a group Muslims 4 Liberty must first show that we are not like the Al Qaeda and all this other...after that has been established it will be easier to get an ear to listen to what we have to say about what is being done by the U.S. government. Until then we would just be buried under ignorance as the mass majority just ignored us. Who would that help? Nobody.

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Taliban do not target civilians as numerous news sites have published that they deny it. Many western news outlets blame them for attacks such as throwing acid on school girls, etc however the Taliban say such attacks are against Islam and they never do such a thing. As for police.. well they are part of the security system that fights the Taliban. They do not count as civilians under Shariah. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

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Anyone on here in the states who is interested in this group and making a real change let me know.... feel free to email me with more information: theabdullahfathi[at]yahoo.com

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Assalamu alaykum abdullahfath, as well as to other brothers and sisters here.

 

Wow, it's been a while since I've posted and replied to you abdullahfath. MashaAllah, time for action is always now.

 

I'm from the states, will send an email.

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I just liked the page.

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If you want, you can check out the site "Minaret of Freedom." It's probably related to what you're talking about.

 

http://www.minaret.org

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