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Problems I See With Islam

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There are some flaws I see in Islam. They may seem trivial to you but I see them as problematic.

  • Denial of Christ's Crucifixion

  • No Sabbath day (day of rest)

 

 

Lets just start with these two grevences of it. Now answer why that it is this way with more than verse quotes please.

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There are some flaws I see in Christianity. They may seem trivial to you but I see them as problematic.

 

-Acknowledgement of Christ's (read GOD, son of God, part God?) Crucifixion (dead, partly dead, not quite dead?)

-Sabbath day (day of rest) (Since the Bible says even God needs a rest after creating the universe?)

 

Lets just start with these two grievances of it. Now answer why that it is this way with more than verse quotes please. Please working man, just some common sense and rationality. If your kids misbehaves, commit sins, etc do you punish the innocent one in order to forgive the guilty ones? Does it make sense to do that? Does it make sense that God needs to kill the innocent ones in order to forgive the sinners and the guilty ones? Tell me in your own words why you don’t see this as problematic?

Having no rest day is problematic? When you are having a rest, does your heart ever stop? Do you stop breathing? the world stops turning? Do you see any problem with even God needing a rest and God feeling tired?

Edited by RAHIMI
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There are some flaws I see in Christianity. They may seem trivial to you but I see them as problematic.

 

 

-Acknowledgement of Christ's (read GOD, son of God, part God?) Crucifixion (dead, partly dead, not quite dead?)

-Sabbath day (day of rest) (Since the Bible says even God needs a rest after creating the universe?)

 

Lets just start with these two grievances of it. Now answer why that it is this way with more than verse quotes please. Please working man, just some common sense and rationality. If your kids misbehaves, commit sins, etc do you punish the innocent one in order to forgive the guilty ones? Does it make sense to do that? Does it make sense that God needs to kill the innocent ones in order to forgive the sinners and the guilty ones? Tell me in your own words why you don’t see this as problematic?

Having no rest day is problematic? When you are having a rest, does your heart ever stop? Do you stop breathing? the world stops turning? Do you see any problem with even God needing a rest and God feeling tired?

 

No Sabbath day/day of rest is problematic. It was commanded by God to rest from servile labor and reserved specificly for worship of Him (God). It was the third command God gave to Mosses. God did not rest from feeling tired. God rested and enjoyed what He (God) made in creation. So why is there no Sabbath day in Islam?

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It is not a surprise that the denial of Jesus' (pbuh) crucifixion is a problem to you. After all, in Christology the cruxifixion is much more than a cross and nails. It is the culminating point of Christianity. To you it has many connotations: Jesus (pbuh) being God the Son, the Son of God, a Lord who got crucified for all of mankind's sins.

 

And if Christ did not come again from the dead, then our good news and your faith in it are of no effect. (1 Corinthians 15:14)

 

I believe it all boils down to this. Islam is saying that your faith in Jesus (pbuh) being God, the Son of God and a Lord who got crucified for our sins is of no effect. Thus it is problematic to you.

 

The thing is we have talked about the crucifixion before. The following thread was started by you and I participated in it. We have gone over this topic thus I am not going to repeat myself.

 

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/736047-why-islams-denial-of-christs-crucifixion/

 

Christ crucifixion will remain your stumbling block. Otherwise you probably would not be a Christian.

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There is no Sabbath in Islam but then again there is no Sabbath in Christianity, either, well except if you are a Christian who follows the Torah. There are a few such Christians but they are an extreme minority. But generally speaking, Christian don't observe the Sabbath. Yes, I know Christian have Sunday but that's not the Sabbath, the third commandment given to Moses (pbuh).

 

Instead of Sabbath Muslims have the day of Jumu'ah. During Jumu'ah we go to listen to a long sermon and then pray. However, it is not a day of complete rest. Work is not prohibited except during the Jumu'ah prayer (which includes the sermon).

 

Here is a verse from the Qur'an:

 

(124. The Sabbath was only prescribed for those who differed concerning it, and verily, your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection about what they differed over.)

 

Here is the exegesis concerning this verse. It pertains to this topic. Read it from start to finish:

 

 

http://www.qtafsir.c...=2927&Itemid=71

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There are some flaws I see in Islam. They may seem trivial to you but I see them as problematic.

  • Denial of Christ's Crucifixion

  • No Sabbath day (day of rest)

 

 

Lets just start with these two grevences of it. Now answer why that it is this way with more than verse quotes please.

 

 

Denial of Christ's Crucifixion

 

you can even prove with your own bible that jesus never died on the cross , and by the way why do you like to see jesus on the cross, if you love someone, you should be happy if someone told you that he is not dead, but it seems to me that christians like to see jesus on the cross so he can take theiir sins, that is why you like to see him on the cross. and bible itself say nobody shall die for your sins.

 

No Sabbath day (day of rest)

 

quran recognize sabbath day as holy day for previous people before Muhammed time

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It is not a surprise that the denial of Jesus' (pbuh) crucifixion is a problem to you. After all, in Christology the cruxifixion is much more than a cross and nails. It is the culminating point of Christianity. To you it has many connotations: Jesus (pbuh) being God the Son, the Son of God, a Lord who got crucified for all of mankind's sins.

 

And if Christ did not come again from the dead, then our good news and your faith in it are of no effect. (1 Corinthians 15:14)

 

I believe it all boils down to this. Islam is saying that your faith in Jesus (pbuh) being God, the Son of God and a Lord who got crucified for our sins is of no effect. Thus it is problematic to you.

 

The thing is we have talked about the crucifixion before. The following thread was started by you and I participated in it. We have gone over this topic thus I am not going to repeat myself.

 

http://www.gawaher.c...ts-crucifixion/

 

Christ crucifixion will remain your stumbling block. Otherwise you probably would not be a Christian.

 

You are correct in the cross is more than wood and nails. And yes we have talked about it before. I would not expect you to repleat I am actualy more interested in the second of the two points.

 

On your statement after the link you are probably correct.

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andalusi

you can even prove with your own bible that jesus never died on the cross , and by the way why do you like to see jesus on the cross, if you love someone, you should be happy if someone told you that he is not dead, but it seems to me that christians like to see jesus on the cross so he can take theiir sins, that is why you like to see him on the cross. and bible itself say nobody shall die for your sins.

 

What source do you sight for none shall die for your sins? There are verses that state plainly in the Bible that Jesus died on the cross with Mary his mother and John the disciple at his feet. The thing of it is Jesus is not dead he is alive and risen. Jesus on the cross paying a price for our sins was the point of it yes. If a Christian did not believe that he would not be Christian.

 

 

quran recognize sabbath day as holy day for previous people before Muhammed time

 

 

 

Now ok Islam recognizes it but why did it abolish it? Why not leave a whole day for praise and rest in God. The reasons Christians moved it to Sunday is its the day Jesus rose from the tomb. So it is a day of rest, worship, and celebration.

Edited by workingman

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You see it is very important for Christians to believe that Jesus (pbuh) died on the cross. Why? because of their salvation, so they can commit all type of sins and at the end of the day to remove their guilt they can believe that their sins have been forgiven because Jesus (pbuh) died on the cross for their sins.

 

Where as Islam says: No soul can bear the burden of another soul. Look you commit a sin; you have to repent and don't do it again.

 

There is a detailed explanation by Ahmed Deedat at the cruci-fiction of Jesus (pbuh)

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I posted a link regarding the Sabbath.

 

The real answer why we don't have a day during which no work is required or actually forbidden is because God did not prescribe us such a day. Instead on the day of Jum'uah we go for the Jum'uah prayer, listen to a sermon and pray. That's what God has prescribed us and that's what we do.

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I posted a link regarding the Sabbath.

 

The real answer why we don't have a day during which no work is required or actually forbidden is because God did not prescribe us such a day. Instead on the day of Jum'uah we go for the Jum'uah prayer, listen to a sermon and pray. That's what God has prescribed us and that's what we do.

 

I read the link and I thank you. I can respect that. It seems like such a foreign concept to me and most Christians that I know that there is not a complete day of rest. Once again thank you Younes.

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You see it is very important for Christians to believe that Jesus (pbuh) died on the cross. Why? because of their salvation, so they can commit all type of sins and at the end of the day to remove their guilt they can believe that their sins have been forgiven because Jesus (pbuh) died on the cross for their sins.

 

Where as Islam says: No soul can bear the burden of another soul. Look you commit a sin; you have to repent and don't do it again.

 

There is a detailed explanation by Ahmed Deedat at the cruci-fiction of Jesus (pbuh)

 

Wow you have a realy warped sence on Chrsitianity. No Christian that I have ever come across will tell you that. You need to look at what Jesus taught in St. Matthew 5 starting at verse 21. So here is what Jesus taught.

 

 

[21] You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not kill. And whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment. [22] But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. [23] If therefore thou offer thy gift at the altar, and there thou remember that thy brother hath any thing against thee; [24] Leave there thy offering before the altar, and go first to be reconciled to thy brother: and then coming thou shalt offer thy gift. [25] Be at agreement with thy adversary betimes, whilst thou art in the way with him: lest perhaps the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. [26] Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing. [27] You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not commit adultery. [28] But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart. [29] And if thy right eye scandalize thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee. For it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell. [30] And if thy right hand scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell. [31] And it hath been said, whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a bill of divorce. [32] But I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, excepting for the cause of fornication, maketh her to commit adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery. [33] Again you have heard that it was said to them of old, Thou shalt not forswear thyself: but thou shalt perform thy oaths to the Lord. [34] But I say to you not to swear at all, neither by heaven, for it is the throne of God: [35] Nor by the earth, for it is his footstool: nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king:

[34] Not to swear at all: It is not forbid to swear in truth, justice and judgment; to the honour of God, or our own or neighbour's just defence: but only to swear rashly, or profanely, in common discourse, and without necessity.

[36] Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. [37] But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil. [38] You have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. [39] But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other: [40] And if a man will contend with thee in judgment, and take away thy coat, let go thy cloak also unto him.[41] And whosoever will force thee one mile, go with him other two, [42] Give to him that asketh of thee and from him that would borrow of thee turn not away. [43] You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thy enemy. [44] But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you: [45] That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust. [46] For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this? [47] And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this? [48] Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

 

Now after reading that one can not behave as you have suggested and be Chrsitian.

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Okay, than I have one question, according to the christian faith if Jesus Christ didn't die on the cross for our sin than are we all Christians going to hell?

A lot of missionaries they say this: Accept Jesus Christ as your savior and you will be saved from hell.

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I read the link and I thank you. I can respect that. It seems like such a foreign concept to me and most Christians that I know that there is not a complete day of rest. Once again thank you Younes.

And what exactly that the Christians do on their complete day of rest or rather complete day of worshipping? Do they stay in church and only worship God all day and nothing else? How about you?, what do you do on your complete worship day? If you can't find a single Christian that spends the entire day doing nothing else but worshipping God each week then the fact that Islam does not specify a complete rest/worship day shouldn't be much of a problem to you unless you are making too much of an issue over nothing..

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Okay, than I have one question, according to the christian faith if Jesus Christ didn't die on the cross for our sin than are we all Christians going to hell?

A lot of missionaries they say this: Accept Jesus Christ as your savior and you will be saved from hell.

 

I have never realy pondered if Jesus didn't die on the cross scienario. But I will see if I can work with it. The long and short of it would be no. I say this because a new covenant would not have been established. We would also though have a world full of pagan gentiles. Who due to invincible ignorance (not hearing God's word of salvation) would be allowed enterance to the Kingdom of God. We Christians will not only be judged on faith but also living in accordance with God's law.

 

Yes protestant missionaries love that rout. The protestants fail to remember that a good and moral life is still requied.

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And what exactly that the Christians do on their complete day of rest or rather complete day of worshipping? Do they stay in church and only worship God all day and nothing else? How about you?, what do you do on your complete worship day? If you can't find a single Christian that spends the entire day doing nothing else but worshipping God each week then the fact that Islam does not specify a complete rest/worship day shouldn't be much of a problem to you unless you are making too much of an issue over nothing..

 

Rahimi. Well as to what all other Christians do I can not attest to as I am not with all of them. As for me and my family no the whole day is not spent in Church. Worship in Church only lasts aprox one hour for Mass. One is free to spend long in prayer and reflection though. There is no servile labor nor do me or my family patronise places of bussiness on Sunday. We go to worship as a family. The only work that is done is to prepare meals. It is a feast day (Sunday). God has given all a vocation in life. My vocation is my weekday job and being blessed with a wife and children. So besides chruch we spend the day as a family with prayer, scripture readings, games, ect... All the while giving thanks to God and enjoying our position He (God) has given us. Do we give thanks to God everyday yes! But Sunday is extra special. I do not see it as a big deal over nothing as it was important enough to be commanded by God since Mosses.

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OK fair enough, is it problematic then for any Christian to catch up with some work related and worldly tasks on Sundays?

If your wife and kids want to do this (office/school works on Sundays ) do you stop them and does that bother you?

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What source do you sight for none shall die for your sins? There are verses that state plainly in the Bible that Jesus died on the cross with Mary his mother and John the disciple at his feet. The thing of it is Jesus is not dead he is alive and risen. Jesus on the cross paying a price for our sins was the point of it yes. If a Christian did not believe that he would not be Christian.

 

Now ok Islam recognizes it but why did it abolish it? Why not leave a whole day for praise and rest in God. The reasons Christians moved it to Sunday is its the day Jesus rose from the tomb. So it is a day of rest, worship, and celebration.

 

 

What source do you sight for none shall die for your sins?

 

<< Ezekiel 18:20 >>

New Living Translation (©2007)

The person who sins is the one who will die. The child will not be punished for the parent's sins, and the parent will not be punished for the child's sins. Righteous people will be rewarded for their own righteous behavior, and wicked people will be punished for their own wickedness.

 

this is logical from bible, and we muslims agree with this 100%

 

it clearly say everyone is responsible for their own sins, BUUUUUT, christians like to complicate their own relgion and make it illogical, so they say "NOOOO, it is not like that, we like to believe that if someone kill a person we will put you in jail for him" in other words, jesus without a sin in this world is punished on the cross for our sins.

 

you christians have missunderstood bible complitly , everything you believe can be disproven with bible, even jesus' crusifixion.

 

 

There are verses that state plainly in the Bible that Jesus died on the cross with Mary his mother and John the disciple at his feet.

 

it was another man who looked like jesus(according to gospel of Barnabas it was Judas) so people thought jesus was crusified, that is why Judas said on the cross , my god my god why have you forsaken me, it was not jesus who said that , can you imagine jesus saiying my god my god why have you forsaken me if he knew that he would be put on the cross for sins of mankind.

 

 

how can you believe that jesus ressurected from the dead, when jesus said that ressurected bodies have no flesh and bones, they are like angels, spiriutalaised, while jesus came to his disciples in flesh and bones, in other words jesus did not die nor ressurected.

 

 

Jesus on the cross paying a price for our sins was the point of it yes.

 

when i read this i realise how beautiful and logical Islam is, and superior to christianity.

 

even though bible says everyone is responsible for their own sins you believe this nonsence that someone else is punished for you, how logical is that.

 

imagine two twins, idetical, one commit murder, can we hang the other? NO

 

 

Now ok Islam recognizes it but why did it abolish it? Why not leave a whole day for praise and rest in God. The reasons Christians moved it to Sunday is its the day Jesus rose from the tomb. So it is a day of rest, worship, and celebration.

 

beacuse Jews did not take it as holy as they should, they tryied to make fool of God, so God gave his kingdom to another nation

 

<< Matthew 21:42-43 >>

Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone(Kaba, muslim holy place); the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'? "Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

 

instaead following sabbath God gave us friday as holy day when we pray Jumma prayer, God changed this ebacuse so we would not follow jews, so nobody can say you just copy jews.

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I have never realy pondered if Jesus didn't die on the cross scienario. But I will see if I can work with it. The long and short of it would be no. I say this because a new covenant would not have been established. We would also though have a world full of pagan gentiles. Who due to invincible ignorance (not hearing God's word of salvation) would be allowed enterance to the Kingdom of God. We Christians will not only be judged on faith but also living in accordance with God's law.

 

Yes protestant missionaries love that rout. The protestants fail to remember that a good and moral life is still requied.

 

thought it interesting that you brought out the new covenant concept of Christianity so thought I would introduce something interesting of my own:

Mithra (Avestan: Miθpa) is the Zoroastrian divinity (yazata) of covenant and oath. In addition to being the divinity of contracts, Mithra is also a judicial figure, an all-seeing protector of Truth, and the guardian of cattle, the harvest and of The Waters.

 

Christianity first with concept of Trinity?

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/hindutrinity.asp

 

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7n5o4k1QlEkAVHNXNyoA?ei=UTF-8&fr=moz35&p=egyptian+god+resurrected&rs=1&fr2=rs-top <- search results for egyptian god resurrected... original concept of sacrificed and resurrected savior god was Egyptian. His name was Osiris.

 

Isn't history fun?

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thought it interesting that you brought out the new covenant concept of Christianity so thought I would introduce something interesting of my own:

 

 

Christianity first with concept of Trinity?

http://www.hinduwebs...indutrinity.asp

 

http://search.yahoo....rs=1&fr2=rs-top <- search results for egyptian god resurrected... original concept of sacrificed and resurrected savior god was Egyptian. His name was Osiris.

 

Isn't history fun?

 

As part of their religious practice the pagans used to kiss the Kaaba, now the Muslims kiss the Kaaba.

 

Isn’t history fun? :yes:

Edited by CarlosTheJackal

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While you are talking about the Kaaba you might want to remember that even according to your Bible Abraham built that Kaaba....unless of course you want to discard the Bible

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It is not a surprise that the denial of Jesus' (pbuh) crucifixion is a problem to you. After all, in Christology the cruxifixion is much more than a cross and nails. It is the culminating point of Christianity. To you it has many connotations: Jesus (pbuh) being God the Son, the Son of God, a Lord who got crucified for all of mankind's sins.

 

And if Christ did not come again from the dead, then our good news and your faith in it are of no effect. (1 Corinthians 15:14)

 

I believe it all boils down to this. Islam is saying that your faith in Jesus (pbuh) being God, the Son of God and a Lord who got crucified for our sins is of no effect. Thus it is problematic to you.

 

The thing is we have talked about the crucifixion before. The following thread was started by you and I participated in it. We have gone over this topic thus I am not going to repeat myself.

 

http://www.gawaher.c...ts-crucifixion/

 

Christ crucifixion will remain your stumbling block. Otherwise you probably would not be a Christian.

 

Actually you’re the ones who have a problem. Islam contradicts:

  1. Divine Revelation (we don’t hide and justify by saying the previous scriptures have been corrupt).
  2. History
  3. Archaeology.

You’ve got a lot on your plate to deal with…

 

You see andalusi to follow Islam is very illogical, lol.

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While you are talking about the Kaaba you might want to remember that even according to your Bible Abraham built that Kaaba....unless of course you want to discard the Bible

 

There is no mention of the kaaba in the bible, Abraham didn’t even go the middle east sunshine.

Edited by CarlosTheJackal

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Actually you’re the ones who have a problem. Islam contradicts:

  1. Divine Revelation (we don’t hide and justify by saying the previous scriptures have been corrupt).
     
  2. History
     
  3. Archaeology.

You’ve got a lot on your plate to deal with…

 

You see andalusi to follow Islam is very illogical, lol.

 

 

Divine Revelation (we don’t hide and justify by saying the previous scriptures have been corrupt).

 

you dont but Bible does that, look for yourself

 

from Bible

<< Jeremiah 8:8 >>

"'How can you say, "We are wise because we have the word of the LORD," when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies?

]

even history and archeology goes against Bible[/b]

 

when it comes to Haman and calling King a pharao in old egyptian kingdom. quran is correct and bible is wrong when it comes to those historical and archeological findings.

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