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Raihanna

15 Reasons For Muslim To Live In Indonesia

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Oh, alhamdulillah, you still want to voluntarily help me increasing my pageviews, fish2000. And I am ready to beat you up... AGAIN! Well, it's rare to see someone as willing as this not only to help muslim but also not mind to be embarassed all over the world. Hahahaha... But before we start, I want to share you a lil joke here:

 

 

An elderly lady was well-known for her

 

Iman and for her confidence in talking

 

about it. She would stand in front of her

 

house and say Alhamdulilah "Allah be

 

praised" to all those who passed by. Next

 

door to her lived an atheist who would get

 

so angry at her proclamations he would

 

shout, "There ain't no Lord!!" Hard times

 

came upon the elderly lady, and she prayed

 

for Allah to send her some assistance. She

 

would pray out loud in her night prayer" Oh

 

Allah! I need food!! I am having a hard

 

time, please Lord, PLEASE LORD, SEND ME

 

SOME GROCERIES!!" The atheist happened

 

to hear her as she was praying, and

 

decided to play a prank on her. The next

 

morning the lady went out on her porch

 

and noted a large bag of groceries and

 

shouted, "Alhamdulilah, Allah be praised!."

 

The neighbor jumped from behind a bush

 

and said, "Aha! I told you there was no

 

Lord. I bought those groceries, God didn't."

 

The lady started jumping up and down and

 

clapping her hands and said,

 

"ALHAMDULILAH WA SHUKRILLAH”. He not

 

only sent me groceries, but he made the

 

devil pay for them!"

 

 

Still not get it? No wonder christians could manipulate you very well.

Okay, here are your answers:

Don't try to avoid here. You can't answer means you don't have anymore reasonable arguments. All your points have been refuted as I proved above.

And if you can't answer but too stubborn to proclaim defeat, you will REPEAT the same old arguments OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I have answered over and over again but you keep repeating. Proofs?

However, if you disregard the problems in the country, you are doing an injustice to the people that are negatively effected by the corruption, violence and restrictions placed on woman (the later being restricted to certain provinces and not all of Indo).

However, we should not discredit the efforts made by covering up or pretending the issues are no longer exist. Many people have died to see Indonesia make the progress it has made to date. It is not fair to those people and their families to claim the problems are solved.

I claim all should be treated equal and have the right to practice their religion.

indonesian Christians should have the same rights as Indonesian Muslims.

And my answers :

I am not being injustice. I have said on first post that Indonesia is not a perfect country, but Indonesia is indeed trying to be better. And "violence" or "restriction of women" that you said are irrelevant as I explained above.

I am not covering up anything, but Indonesia indeed has been so much better and not the country you used to see several years ago. Taking old cases and one-sided news from sources which are very unbalanced is an unfair ways to create the image of the biggest muslim nation in the world.

For your information, muslims and christians have same rights in Indonesia. Didn't I write that the law also works for masjid and another prayer places like temple, etc? The one who differentiate them only the amount of populations and you can't demand to make the muslims emigrate to make it equal.

Minorities have been treated equally like muslims in Indonesia and have the rights to practise their religion, you know. The problem is they don't want to follow rules, that actually work for all people in Indonesia. They use religion as the culprit because they don't want to be blamed for their inability to follow rules and want to make Islam's image worse as well.

And now you REPEAT again the same ANSWERED questions. How many times do I have to answer until you understand? So, that is your level of intelligence? I don't want to repeat again my answer above.

Your situation is like this:

 

Kid : Professor, how much is 1 + 2? And what is the capital of Indonesia?

 

Professor : It is 3 and the capital of Indonesia is Jakarta

 

Kid : I ask you once again, Professor, how much is 1 + 2? And what is the capital of Indonesia?

 

Professor : I have answered previously it is 3 and the capital of Indonesia is Jakarta

 

Kid : No, you haven't answered it! Professor, how much is 1 + 2? And what is the capital of Indonesia?

 

Professor : How many times do I have to answer this? It is 3 and the capital of Indonesia is Jakarta

 

Kid : You have not answered, Professor! How much is 1 + 2? And what is the capital of Indonesia?

 

Professor : Are you stupid or what? It is 3 and the capital of Indonesia is Jakarta!

 

Kid : But Professor, I am not satisfied yet! How much is 1 + 2? And what is the capital of Indonesia?

 

Professor : (what a silly kid) I don't want to repeat again my answer. You heard it!

 

You are very much alike typical atheist who become troublemaker on another Islamic forum. Don't tell me that you ran here after that forum's members kicked your ?

And your rejection to perfectly SCIENTIFIC deduction showed all people here not only how Islamophobic you are but also how irrational you are when it comes to Islam. Look:

 

First premise : Human will die

Second premise : Rasheed is human

Conclusion : Therefore, Rasheed will die

 

Do you think it is rational to think that "no, Rasheed won't die because his metabolism maybe different and not because he is human he will automatically die. It only happens to MOST human not to Rasheed!". Yeah, right, tell that to everyone and let the world laugh at you.

And I need not to answer your WRONG accusation about antichristian because you repeated it AGAIN. Look :

Seems that you assume non-muslims are tickers and liars.

I have answered:

this is PURE unfinished administration matters and not because muslims aren't tolerant, but the christians make it look like one even telling the whole world. It is clearly manipulation of news and too bad you are not smart enough and got manipulated as well. Don't let me think that you are worse than that by keep rejecting the true fact that I have tried to tell you many times.

Not to mention you AVOID my example case about punk neigbour. Why? Because you feel like you can not be tolerant in that case? Now I challenge you to answer that example. If you try to speak or negotiate with that neighbour, according to your concept of UNLIMITED TOLERANCE, it means that you are INTOLERANT because that punk has the same rights as you to do anything he wants. If you move, then it means you betray your own words not to move just because of differences with others. Now, what will you do? If you avoid again, it means you admit your loss in argument and prove that your ability only avoid when you can't answer something.

Next, you are denying a survey which conducted by Australian government itself about muslim's less work and salary. It is not one-sided because the government who stated that. Ohohoho... so much for neutrality.

Eventhough you are not Australian or pretending not to be Australian for the sake of the discussion, but you live there now. What I was trying to say is you should fight for equality in Australia first, before you said that a country needs to be fixed, moreover if that country is so much better than the country you are living now regarding to tolerance to minority. You are like a beggar who comes to Carlos Slim Helu, the current richest man on earth, and said, "Hey, you need to work harder! You are not rich enough! How come you are as bad as this?! You need to implement better business strategy!" Oh yeah, he will laugh at you, as will all people on earth. He has made most money in the world anyway, like Indonesia who apparently one of the most tolerant countries in the world despite of being muslim-majority country.

And you should stop your fake praise. Muslims are not that naive to see what behind your flowery words. You say that Indonesia is great and all, but on the other hand keep critising its Islamic part. Do you think muslims don't know what you are trying to say? You are like this, "Hi, girl! You are pretty but your eyes' colour are bad, your skin is pale, your lips are dry, your clothes are mismatch. Oh, you are black? Black is bad. But don't worry, you are still pretty but not because you're black, but because every women is pretty. I am not racist by the way." Hohoho... is that what you call PRAISE?

Now what I want to say is no matter how many posts you made here, whether you like it or not, Indonesia won't change its rules for you or any misleading people out there. It has done its duty to protect minorities as much as it can and many world's leaders, including pope, barack obama, angela merkel, and hillary clinton, not nameless one like you, have appreciated its effort. It is not its duty to please everyone moreover if they are wrong according to the nation. And no country or person can force or dictate how Indonesia behaves or what values it should follow.

You, on the other hand, will only be a tool to increase my pageviews while lowering your credibility without even realizing it. This information of Indonesia's goodness now will be spread much more compared to when I started it 6 months ago. Well, Allah's work is beyond and better than our imagination, anyway.

Now if you still wanna help me to make more pageviews, I am waiting which statement you will repeat, which of my right answer you will try to avoid, and what kind of irrational or wrong accusation you will wrote.

Despite of your failure attempts to taint its image, Indonesia will keep moving forward and being one of the most succesful nations in the world, even UK admitted its rapid development. Also, my brothers and sisters here surely will know how amazing is Indonesia

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Long message. But I liked the joke!
 

You are very much alike typical atheist who become troublemaker on another Islamic forum. Don't tell me that you ran here after that forum's members kicked your ?
And your rejection to perfectly SCIENTIFIC deduction showed all people here not only how Islamophobic you are but also how irrational you are when it comes to Islam. Look:

First premise : Human will die
Second premise : Rasheed is human
Conclusion : Therefore, Rasheed will die

Do you think it is rational to think that "no, Rasheed won't die because his metabolism maybe different and not because he is human he will automatically die. It only happens to MOST human not to Rasheed!". Yeah, right, tell that to everyone and let the world laugh at you.

 
Well. I dont know where this came from. Or how it has any relation to the topic. 
I never said people don't die. Or anything of that kind. 
 

Not to mention you AVOID my example case about punk neigbour. Why? Because you feel like you can not be tolerant in that case?

 
I didn't believe this deserved a reply...
 
There is a difference between someone practicing their religion and going to church versus someone inflicting pain or discomfort on other people. You have said the Christians should respect the Muslims and go away - build their churches somewhere else. 
 

You are comparing Christians to annoying punk rockers that purposely play their music loud all night to annoy their neighbours. You have said they are 'trickers' and 'liars' etc. 

 

Sorry - your views here in my opinion are misguided. Hence I told you to go and read your Quran. It preaches a little more tolerance than you display. 

 

Next, you are denying a survey which conducted by Australian government itself about muslim's less work and salary. It is not one-sided because the government who stated that. Ohohoho... so much for neutrality.

 
I didn't deny this. I said I have not seen it.
I said Australia has anti-descimination laws (after you bought it up) however said that does not mean they are always followed.
I also said there was discrimination in Australia. In my opinion more racial that religious. I would say it is more common that we hear of racist attacks against Indians rather than religious attacks against Muslims.  
 
Some people may claim their are no racial attacks in Australia - a similar view as you are taking on Indo. There are and they should be denounced when they take place. 

 

As with Indonesia - it is not a reflection of all Australians. 
 

You say that Indonesia is great and all, but on the other hand keep critising its Islamic part.

 
I've never criticised the Islamic part. I have said it is not Islam that is the problem. 
You keep connecting the violence back to Islam - I keep saying they are separate.
 

You are like this, "Hi, girl! You are pretty but your eyes' colour are bad, your skin is pale, your lips are dry, your clothes are mismatch. Oh, you are black? Black is bad. But don't worry, you are still pretty but not because you're black, but because every women is pretty. I am not racist by the way." Hohoho... is that what you call PRAISE?

 

No. I have said nothing of the sort. 

I have continuously said all people are equal. Regardless of race, colour, sex or religion. 

 

So I would not judge her buy her skin or clothes. I would judge her by her 'actions' and how she 'treats people'. 

 

 

You are making a lot of incorrect assumptions. Happy to give you extra views on your post. 

I'm not and have never been anti-Islam or anti-christian. 

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Long message. But I liked the joke!

 

 

Well. I dont know where this came from. Or how it has any relation to the topic. 

I never said people don't die. Or anything of that kind. 

 

 

I didn't believe this deserved a reply...

 

There is a difference between someone practicing their religion and going to church versus someone inflicting pain or discomfort on other people. You have said the Christians should respect the Muslims and go away - build their churches somewhere else. 

 

You are comparing Christians to annoying punk rockers that purposely play their music loud all night to annoy their neighbours. You have said they are 'trickers' and 'liars' etc. 

 

Sorry - your views here in my opinion are misguided. Hence I told you to go and read your Quran. It preaches a little more tolerance than you display. 

 

 

I didn't deny this. I said I have not seen it.

I said Australia has anti-descimination laws (after you bought it up) however said that does not mean they are always followed.

I also said there was discrimination in Australia. In my opinion more racial that religious. I would say it is more common that we hear of racist attacks against Indians rather than religious attacks against Muslims.  

 

Some people may claim their are no racial attacks in Australia - a similar view as you are taking on Indo. There are and they should be denounced when they take place. 

 

As with Indonesia - it is not a reflection of all Australians. 

 

 

I've never criticised the Islamic part. I have said it is not Islam that is the problem. 

You keep connecting the violence back to Islam - I keep saying they are separate.

 

 

No. I have said nothing of the sort. 

I have continuously said all people are equal. Regardless of race, colour, sex or religion. 

 

So I would not judge her buy her skin or clothes. I would judge her by her 'actions' and how she 'treats people'. 

 

 

You are making a lot of incorrect assumptions. Happy to give you extra views on your post. 

I'm not and have never been anti-Islam or anti-christian. 

 

Alhamdulillah, finally you admit your defeat in this arguments by not capable of answering my challenge! Like I stated here:

 

If you avoid again, it means you admit your loss in argument and prove that your ability only avoid when you can't answer something.

 

Now, like all typical of atheist who is defeated on argument, you can only:

 

1. Avoiding my right answers

2. Playing dumb

3. Repeating the same things over and over again

 

But the points of this discussions are:

 

1. I have answered all your wrong accusations you got from one-sided news about Indonesia generally and muslims specifically. As I said here :

 

a.Corruption : First you said it was bad and getting nowhere to be solved but I said it is improving a lot and finally you have admitted that my point was right here

b. Bribing : You said that Indonesians need to be bribed a lot but I said it was not necessary and could be reported to higher up. At last you were agreed with me as well here

c.Terrorism : You said that it often happened in Indonesia. I said it was very rare. When I showed you the fact, you changed the topic to "religious violence" although there was no relations AT ALL between "terrorism" and "religious violence". You just made it up because you couldn't deny my fact. First you were targeting the old cases or one-sided news, but after I gave explanation to you that nearly all case have been solved while the rest of them only missunderstanding, you couldn't answer and now change topic AGAIN to closed churches that in fact were only administration problems that means the churches were breaking the law of Indonesia.

d. Straddling law : You also dropped the topic after I told you that the muslims there are just fine with the law

 

About christians-thingy, I need not to answer since I have explained it over and over again here :

 

Minorities have been treated equally like muslims in Indonesia and have the rights to practise their religion, you know. The problem is they don't want to follow rules, that actually work for all people in Indonesia. They use

religion as the culprit because they don't want to be blamed for their inability to follow rules and want to make Islam's image worse as well. For your information, muslims and christians have same rights in Indonesia.

Didn't I write that the law also works for masjid and another prayer places like temple, etc? The one who differentiate them only the amount of populations and you can't demand to make the muslims emigrate to make it equal.

 

I have explained OVER AND OVER AGAIN why those churches were closed : because the christians tricked

and lied to the people or misused the building permit. If only the churches asked nicely, maybe the people will allow the churches to be built in muslim population area. That is not impossible because many churches have beeen built that way. But now the people were angry because they were lied and tricked and not wanting to accept the church anymore. Who won't be angry if treated like that anyway?

 

 

But it is up to you if you don't want to understand or pretend to not understand, it is not me whose intelligence is at doubt anyway. If you insist to defend those liars and tricksters in the name of religion (how strange, an atheist stand up for a religion?) and play dumb to any rational reasons then go on, that way everyone will know your true colors.

I am not misguided, I know the truth behind your fake flowery words and Qur'an has taught me about that:

 

"They (think to) deceive Allah and those who believe, while

they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not! In their hearts is a

disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allah has increased their disease.

A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies. And when it

is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "We are

only peacemakers."Verily! They are the ones who make mischief, but they

perceive not. (2:9-12)

 

On the other hand, I suggest you to read the world's history and see how many mischiefs in the world caused by atheists, christians, and other religions compared to Islam. You will be suprised that Islam is so much better than other religions or nonreligions.

2. All your challenges have been answered, while you couldn't answer even one of my challenge

3. I never avoided your questions or statements, but you avoided mine if you felt like you couldn't answer them

4. Finally you accept that Indonesia is tolerant because you said that like Australia, all your "problems" directed to Indonesia didn't reflect how is the true Indonesia. I want to add that mostly Indonesians are helpful and kind

5. Finally you accept that Islam in Indonesia is not the problem since you said that you were not criticising it. I never said Islam is the problem, I said the people who badmouthed it are the problem after all its kindness and tolerance to minorities in Indonesia

 

And your explanations about Australia doesn't simply make dissappear the fact that muslims earn less jobs and money than Australia born, moreover if you deny it by saying it is more often racial than religious discriminations that happen in Australia, because I have not heard anything about racial in Australia, even in international news.

Now, it is up to you if you couldn't understand my analogies. Not all humans are granted the ability to read between the lines anyway, and seems like it is including you. It explains why you don't understand my points eventhough I have repeated it over and over again.

I am not making a lot of incorrect assumptions, I only wrote what I saw here on the discussion. But since you have been defeated, also all cases, missunderstandings, and actions of Indonesia have been answered, I happily say that we have no more to be discussed. Everything has been clear that Indonesia and its muslims populations are one of most tolerant ones on earth and mostly people including those of different religions are living in harmony in Indonesia. If you hear otherwise, then it must be from unbalanced sources because as I have written above, Indonesia won't tolerate any mischiefs. Indonesia is one of the most promosing country in the world and it will keep developing at amazing rates.

 

 

“As I travel around the world over the next years, I will be saying to people, if you want to know whether Islam, democracy, modernity, and women’s rights can coexist, go to Indonesia.” Hillary Rodham Clinton, Secretary of State address at Indonesian Civil Society Dinner in Jakarta (February 18, 2009)

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