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SuperZeZ

Is There Anything You Could Not Do For Allah?

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The ethical thing to do is to stop him. I would not kill him and then deliver him to courts so he can be judged for attempting rape. Please let's not go overboard with drawing analogies with what men should do and what Allah does. We are not all-knowing beings. So let's get on with implausible hypotheticals like "what if you met Hitler as a baby and knew what he was about to do" and stuff like that.

 

The hypothetical was to isolate the two supposed good deeds. If no amount of retributive punishment could compensate for allowing the girl to be raped, then surely that must mean that retributive pain, when compared to rescuing somebody from being raped, has utterly negligible, if any, moral value?

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Have you ever considered that maybe this is a hidden test of character, and when you die you will stand before Allah and he will look down at you with shame for praising him no matter what he does? What if God exists, but he spoke to the prophet Muhammad not to show you the true path, but to weed out the yes-men, those who will always agree with what Allah is claimed to have said, no matter what it is, as long as they will receive an infinite reward for it, from those who are genuinely loyal to what God stands for, and who would reject him if and only if he abandoned his qualities of kindness and mercy? Those who stand for what God stands for so loyally they are willing to risk hellfire for rejecting a version of god they see to be a monster?

 

No, I have not. That would mean that Allah lied to us and the covenant was in vain. This is what Satan does. He tries to deceive man. I don't know if anybody considers it a kindness and mercy if Allah tells somebody to do something, tells him about Himself and tells what will happen in the future, but it turns out the excact opposite.

 

I don't consider the above scenario plausible. Allahs has said that is kind and merciful indeed but the severest in punishment. I think the above is just a hypothesis with no basis at all, wishful thinking at best.

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No, I have not. That would mean that Allah lied to us and the covenant was in vain. This is what Satan does. He tries to deceive man. I don't know if anybody considers it a kindness and mercy if Allah tells somebody to do something, tells him about Himself and tells what will happen in the future, but it turns out the excact opposite.

 

So you are willing to say that there are certain things you would not respect Allah for doing? Lying is one of them, and commanding murder is not? You are perfectly willing to believe that he would torture people forever, yet you draw the line at lying?

Edited by SuperZeZ

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So you are willing to say that there are certain things you would not respect Allah for doing? Lying is one of them, and commanding murder is not?

 

I definately don't appreciate lying. But "murder" is really subjective. People have different definitions of that. In Islam, it is defined as killing a soul that Allah has forbidden to kill.

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I definately don't appreciate lying. But "murder" is really subjective. People have different definitions of that. In Islam, it is defined as killing a soul that Allah has forbidden to kill.

 

So yes, you would not tolerate it if Allah lied to you? You would cease to be a Muslim if he spoke to you directly and told you something that later turned out to be a lie?

 

And if not, if you think he'd still deserve to be worshipped, then why do you think it would be so unthinkable for Allah to lie?

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So yes, you would not tolerate it if Allah lied to you? You would cease to be a Muslim if he spoke to you directly and told you something that later turned out to be a lie?

 

And if not, if you think he'd still deserve to be worshipped, then why do you think it would be so unthinkable for Allah to lie?

 

No, lying would not be fair.

 

I believe in Allah's promise. I don't think He is lying.

 

I am going to conclude with the following:

 

Say: "Each one (of us) is waiting: wait ye, therefore, and soon shall ye know who it is that is on the straight and even way, and who it is that has received Guidance." (20:135)

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I read these whole arguments and can't resist the urge to participate. Please allow me to give my opinions:

 

1.About Aisha and her marriage with Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), I don't think that the marriage is unfit eventhough she is married in very young age. Why? Because at that time, marriage in young age is a common one. Even in my country, it is just 50 years ago that women are forbidden to marry at the age below 16. Formerly, whenever the women get menstruation, their parents will immediately search for suitors for them. My grandmother is one of them. If you say that Aisha hasn't get menstruation yet, but according to reliable sources, Aisha and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) only consummate the marriage after Aisha gets her menstruation.

This law to marry women at their adulthood is very new, and you can't just take it as justification to what people do 1400 years ago. If you said that Allah should tell Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) about the proper age of marriage beforehand since He is All-Knowing, then it will make people of Mecca confused. What do you think the ancient people will react if Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) says to his companions, "Dear companions, I got revelation from Allah that I should marry women whose age only above 18 years because it applies 1400 years later."

Of course, people will doubt him after that. It is the same as Quran's language. What do you think if Allah gives difficult scientific words in it just to show that He is All-Knowing? What do you think the verses will become? "O, believers! Be glad that Allah will sent to you cumulous cloud that is driven by winds so rain will come to your land." The people of 7 AD will become confused once again and wonder, "What is cumulous?" That only refer to this age's science. How if He gives difficult scientific words from 50th century?

That's why I will say that PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PBUH) LIVES THE SAME WAY AS THE PEOPLE LIVES AT HIS TIME, BUT MUCH BETTER. And Al-Quran made in as simple words as possible so humans from all time can understand it easily because it is the last revelation to all mankind.

For example, in Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)'s time, there is slavery around. Islam knows not slavery, but if it directly forbids it, it will destroy Mecca's economy because slavery is one of main items in economy. Slowly but sure, as Islam grows, the practice of slavery is erased and as the result, nowadays there is no slavery around and the economy keeps going as usual.

Besides, the present law or moral doesn't mean it is the best of all time. How if the different types of law applies on 24th century? How if the people of that century back to marry the young ones because future science indicates that it is a good thing? How if the future moral in 30th century is making the animals have the same rights as human? You can't say it is unlikely, because all things are possible in the future. You can read the history and find that at middle age, there is no moral to forbid slavery. Or have you travelled to the future to make sure it won't happen? :D Please think about it

 

2. I want to comment about your argument "righteousness is the act of making people's lives more enjoyable, and actively avoiding doing things that will in the long run make people more miserable. Pure evil can be quite easily described as performing actions that primarily cause pain and misery, both in the short term and in the long term" and "laws are important when they are aimed at protecting people from those who would do them harm unnecessarily."

From your statement, I can conclude that for you, law and righteousness are just only if all people are allowed to do ANYTHING that makes them happy and protected by the country. Am I correct?

Now as analogy: Imagine that you have a cute daughter in age of 5 that you love so much. One day, that daughter of yours plays with a sharp knife! What will you do? Of course you will immediately say to your daughter to put down that knife, but your daughter will refuse, because it makes her HAPPY to play with it. Do you think your act is evil? Because you said that "pure evil can be quite easily described as performing actions that primarily cause pain and misery" and you will make your daughter misery if you take the knife! But then you will say, "My daughter doesn't know what she is doing. It is dangerous!"

Well, it is the same with the law maker. Before the law maker, you are like 5 years old daughter who can't understand the reason behind the law. The law of drug prohibition and gay marriage make people unhappy but what's behind drugs and gay? MANY MANY MANY BAD EFFECT FOR LIFE! Drugs will make the users can't stop and destroy their lifes completely, and gay/lesbian will attract so many diseases such as AIDS or STD, and imagine, if all people become gay/lesbian, THE HUMAN RACE WILL BE EXTICT because there are no children to be conceived!

That's what you get if you rely on human's mind, which is full of flaws, to guide your life. A best guidance only from the God, Allah, that is perfect and knows all. If you think "morals being morals because they're mandated by a supreme being are not morals at all, but mere comands", don't you think you are commanded as well by the moral-maker? If you decide to create your own version of moral, how come you take is as valid if so many men object it here? Do you want to state that you are the most righteous? What is the proof? Have you ever received an award to be the most righteous man in universe? Who gives you such award? Please think about it again

 

3. About the recent discussion on Allah's policy to create hell and paradise, I must quote one of Quran's verses.

 

"I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me." (51 : 52)

 

You can see from there that humans (and also jinn) are not created to get as many happines as possible on earth, but to worship Him. He will give them happiness as reward to worship Him, that's why He creates paradise and place the believers there eternally. As for the ones who deny the cause of their creations and become kufr until they die, they will suffer in hell forever as the punishment. If you say, "How come Allah create us just for that purpose!" Well, don't ask me. It is up to Allah to do anything He pleases, because He is the One with power. It is the same as you come to Barack Obama's office and say, "How come you make America like this!" Well, dude, he gets the power, so it is up to him to do anything with it. Do you understand now? :)

So the choice only two : worship Allah/God with all the risks in this world to receive eternal happiness in afterlife or abandon Allah to get as many happiness as you can in this world but will be placed in hell forever in afterlife. It is up to you :)

If you disagree with me and all Islam's members here, maybe you can search for another forum because you can see clearly from the discussion that NO MUSLIM WILL ABANDON THEIR GOD JUST FOR THE SAKE OF SO-CALLED "MORAL" THAT ACTUALLY MADE BY HUMAN.

That's it. I hope you will get enlightment from Allah :)

 

PS : Have you read Dr.Jeffrey Lang's book titled "Struggle to Surrender" that I suggest in my last post yesterday? Please read it, for he is once the same atheist like you. Perhaps his experience will make you understand more about Islam :)

Edited by Raihanna

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About the knife example: Note that I said short term and long term. You make her put the knife down because while she's enjoying it, she doesn't understand that she'll likely get herself hurt for doing it, possibly with irreversible consequences, like losing an eye, or losing a finger, or even death. It's not that there's something inherently wrong about the joy she gets out of playing with knives. Heck, it probably isn't far from the time where we could have some kind of virtual reality and she could play with knives in the safety of simulation without risk of injury. It is, however, important for her to understand that in the real world, knives can hurt people. It's likely she's too young to be messing with knives even in a virtual environment, but even then, what makes it important to stop her is the fact that it has a high likelihood of permanently making her life less enjoyable, or even ending it.

 

Oh, and while the STD argument may apply to gays, it's completely false for lesbians. Lesbians are actually completely immune to getting AIDS unless they're unlucky with a needle or blood transfusion, and they're far less likely to catch other STDs than even heterosexuals are.

Edited by SuperZeZ

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About the knife example: Note that I said short term and long term. You make her put the knife down because while she's enjoying it, she doesn't understand that she'll likely get herself hurt for doing it, possibly with irreversible consequences, like losing an eye, or losing a finger, or even death. It's not that there's something inherently wrong about the joy she gets out of playing with knives. Heck, it probably isn't far from the time where we could have some kind of virtual reality and she could play with knives in the safety of simulation without risk of injury. It is, however, important for her to understand that in the real world, knives can hurt people. It's likely she's too young to be messing with knives even in a virtual environment, but even then, what makes it important to stop her is the fact that it has a high likelihood of permanently making her life less enjoyable, or even ending it.

 

Oh, and while the STD argument may apply to gays, it's completely false for lesbians. Lesbians are actually completely immune to getting AIDS unless they're unlucky with a needle or blood transfusion, and they're far less likely to catch other STDs than even heterosexuals are.

 

 

You are very close in accepting the truth! I am glad to read your post!

 

Now to answer you:

 

1. About the knife example : there are these "short term" words in your "righteousness" definition. I don't know whether my interpretation is correct or not, but it means that even short term misery is not acceptable in your definition. And taking the knife will exactly make your daughter weep and feel misery even for the short term! Sorry to say that your definition is lack of consistency.

If you are afraid about the damage your daughter will suffer, then it is exactly what the law makers thinks when making anti gay/lesbian law! THEY ARE AFRAID OF THE DAMAGE CAUSED BY GAY/LESBIANS, BOTH FOR THEMSELVES OR FOR ANOTHER! I will alter some of your words so you will see my points : gay/lesbian don't understand that they'll likely get themselves hurt for doing it, possibly with irreversible consequences, like AIDS, or mental illness, or even death. It is, however, important for them to understand that in the real world, their sexual orientation can hurt people. But even then, what makes it important to stop them is the fact that it has a high likelihood of permanently making their life less enjoyable, or even ending it.

 

The only words I deem irrelevant are these : "It's not that there's something inherently wrong about the joy they get out of playing with knives. Heck, it probably isn't far from the time where we could have some kind of virtual reality and she could play with knives in the safety of simulation without risk of injury." Because the act of gay/lesbian has been cursed in Quran in Prophet Lot''s (pbuh) story. And you can't make virtual reality for gay/lesbian, since they must ask for the "real ones".

 

2. By the way, even if lesbians have fewer possibility to get AIDS, it doesn't mean they are immune 100%. Besides, they have another problem altogether. Read article below, which I have posted in another thread in this forum. But perhaps you don't want to bother going there, so I will post it here for you. Although it is titled "The Vulnerable Risks Faced by Homosexuality", there are many lesbian's reports in it. I bold it so it will be easier to find:

 

 

The Vulnerable Risks Faced By Homosexual

Clinical Category

By: Veronica Adesla, S.Psi

Jakarta, March 13, 2009

 

Each identity status attached to a person, every decision made, every action taken must contain risk. Even life itself is a risk that must be lived and dealt with. Likewise, sexual identity, be it heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, everything has risks that must be lived and dealt with.

Talking about homosexuality, the risks faced by vulnerable homosexual, can be viewed from two perspectives, namely by: sources of risk and risk types.

 

1. Sources of Risk

Based on the sources of risk can be the source / origin where the risk comes. The risk faced by the homosexual vulnerable can be divided into two:

 

a. Risks that must be faced from the external environment

The presence of homosexuals in society and in interacting / socializing with the environment constantly exposed to laws, norms, values, and the written and unwritten rules, and prevailing stereotypes in society. For example, state law does not allow the marriage between the same sex, religious norms that do not allow homosexual relationships, unwritten rule that applies in the community to avoid relationships with homosexuals, closing opportunities for homosexuals to work / work, school or any occasion to health care the same as another.

The above situation has the potential to produce a reaction and treatment from the surrounding environment. Some are being used, there is a look at one eye, others to the treatment is not as exciting as ostracized, excluded / shunned by family, friends, and work environment, and society.

This is a bit of an overview risks often faced by homosexuals when they are in the midst of society and establish interaction / socializing with their environment. Do not close the possibility of homosexuals who face different situations and responses from the public. This is because of legal and cultural differences prevailing between one society to another. Thus it is very possible some of homosexuals in a society with a culture and values ​​of a particular risk to the different treatment of homosexuals in society B to the culture and values ​​are not the same.

 

b. Risks stemming from his own behavior / lifestyle

This lifestyle includes ways, manners, and habits both in expressing a particular sexual orientation, socialization, and daily living.

Certain lifestyle risk homosexuals can adversely affect physical and mental health and emotional, such as multiple sexual partners in sexual intercourse, sexual intercoursewhich is not safe (not using condoms); doing anal sex; drink loud and drugs.

A study of homosexual men shows that more than 75% of homosexual men admitted to having sex with more than 100 different males in their lifetime: approximately 15% claimed to have had 100-249 sex partners, 17% claimed 250-499, 15% claimed 500-999 and 28% claimed more than 1,000 lifetime sexual partners. (Bell AP, Weinberg MS. Homosexualities. New York 19781).

Promiscuity among lesbian women is less extreme, but is still higher than among heterosexual women. Many 'lesbian' women also have sex with men. Lesbian women were more than 4 times as likely to have had more than 50 lifetime male partners than heterosexual women. (Fethers K et al. Sexually transmitted infections and risk behaviours in women who have sex with women. Sexually Transmitted Infections 2000; 76: 345-9.1)

Lifestyle as risk to the disruption of physical health, such as STI's (Sexual Transmitted Infections) / STD's (Sexual Transmitted Diseases), including HIV-AIDS, and impaired mental health and emotional, such as excessive anxiety, depression, destructive / self-harm, etc. .

 

2. Type of Risk

Based on the type of risk, the risk faced by the vulnerable homosexual can be divided into three:

 

a. Risks associated with mental health and emotional

London, 17 September 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A new study in the UK found that 50% of homosexuals are more prone to depression and drug use when compared to a normal population, the report Health24.com.

A 2004 issue of the The British Journal of Psychiatry, published a study of the high rates of mental illness in gay males, lesbians, and bisexual men and women. The study surveyed mental health problems faced by gays and bisexuals in England and Wales between September, 2000 and July, 2002. The survey was of 2,430 gays and bisexuals over the age of 16 years. It found high rates of planned or actual deliberate self-harm among these groups: 42% of gay males; 43% of lesbians; 49% of bisexual men and women. A similar study published by the Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology (Vo. 71, No. 1, 53-61, 2003) found the following: Gay men and bisexual men were more likely than heterosexual males to be diagnosed with at lest one of five mental health disorders. Lesbian-bisexual women were more likely than heterosexual women to report mental health-related problems in the year prior to being interviewed. 24% of lesbian, bisexual women were co-morbid for two or more mental disorders in the previous year.

After analyzing 25 earlier studies on sexual orientation and mental health, researchers, in a study published in the medical journal BMC Psychiatry, also found that the risk of suicide jumped over 200% if an individual had engaged in a homosexual lifestyle.

Two extensive studies published in the October 1999 issue of American Medical Association Archives of General Psychiatry confirmed the existence of a strong link between homosexuality and suicide, as well as other mental and emotional problems.

Youth who identify themselves as homosexual, lesbian and bisexual are four times more likely than their peers to suffer from major depression; three times more likely to suffer anxiety disorders, four times more likely to suffer conduct disorders, six times more likely to suffer from multiple disorders and more than six times more likely to have attempted suicide.

The data on research conducted by various sources on to justify the risk of mental health disorders and emotional on homosexuality, such as: depression, mental disorders, anxiety disorders, behavioral disorders (conduct-sexual molestation or physical / sexual or physical abuse), hurt / hurt themselves, to suicidal behavior.

 

The dynamics of the causes of mental disorders and emotional

What caused mental and emotional health disorders as such in homosexual? There are several explanations on this subject:

* Psychological distress of suffering / unpleasant conditions, such as homophobia; HIV-AIDS; non-HIV STD's such as syphilis, Anal Cancer, gonorrhea, Chlamydia, Herpes, Genital Warts; body image issues. Psychological stress can make a homosexual become stressed and when he is not able to deal with this stress (distress), he gets out of control and unable to control himself. In such a situation this person is controlled entirely by the negative emotions in him such as: depression, anxiety / fear of excessive, self-pity, anger, jealousy, etc..

 

* Negative self image

Negative self-image occurs when one views and believes himself unworthy, inferior (not humble), And helplessness (internalized homophobia).

 

"Negative self image is views self as socially inept, unappealing, or inferior to others" (www.medical-dictionary.com)

 

The concept of internal homophobia look at an idea where we are building a negative self image of ourselves result of the treatment of others towards us during our sexuality.

Negative self-image formed in a homosexual when he was faced with: a painful past experiences (rejected and mistreated / abused physically and emotionally by family, friends in childhood, or at school); unpleasant treatment from society ( homophobia) as to: impose certain stereotypes about homosexuals, download cap or certain negative labeling, pressure / force values, attitudes, or certain actions, as well as discriminatory factor in such things as laws, norms, values, and certain rules

A homosexual said: "Homophobia can cause stress, worry and derpression. It harms our physical and mental health. It can affect how some of us value ourselves and our future. We might try to cope with the pressure through drink, drugs, smoking or sex "

 

* Engaging in homosexual intercourse

In an interview with Zenit News, Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons, a child and adult psychiatrist in practice for more than 27 years, said, "Compared to controls who had no homosexual experience in the 12 months prior to the interviews, males who had any homosexual contact within that time period were much more likely to experience major depression, bipolar disorder, panic disorder, agoraphobia and obsessive compulsive disorder. Females with any homosexual contact within the previous 12 months were more often diagnosed with major depression, social phobia or alcohol dependence

He concluded by saying, "Men and women with a history of homosexual contact had a higher prevalence of nearly all psychiatric disorders measured in the study. These findings are the result of a lifestyle marked by rampant promiscuity and an inability to make commitments, combined with unresolved sadness, profound insecurity, anger and mistrust from childhood and adolescence."

Perceptions and attitudes toward homosexual sexual relationships have consequences for mental and emotional health. When he put the negative perceptions and attitudes towards sexual relationships,the unpleasant feelings will come in and disturb him.

Perceptions and negative attitudes can manifest guilt, fear, shame, the belief that sexual intercourse is not doing well, the belief that sexual intercourse does not on his own free will, the belief that sexual intercourse he did not bring in anything, do not give anything meaningful, or there will be no end, making sexual intercourse as an escape or outlet for negative emotions they feel, etc.. Consequently, after each tasting pleasure moment, he actually injured by his useless, in the sense of loneliness, emptiness, guilt, sin, etc..

Eventually the chain formed pathological (unhealthy), having sex then feel hurt, end up hurting yourself and then seek pleasure / things to please him (treat the pain) to have sexual intercourse again and then repeated again and thus so on.

According to Sanderson (www.lesbianinformationservice.org 1995), the effects of staying in the closet / coming out for lesbian women in particular homosexuality, is:

a. Avoidance of intimacy especially from people nearby, as well as putting strain in conjunction with a partner.

b. Lead to depression, alcohol dependence, drug abuse, suicide and other behaviors that hurt themselves.

Coming out is a process of self-discovery or receipt of notification of orientation and lesbian or gay (homosexual) an individual to someone

 

b. Risks associated with physical / biological

Risky sexual behavior can interfere with physical / biological of homosexuals. Such as: sexual intercourse freely / multiple partners even with strangers; perform unsafe sex such as: do not use condoms and do not know the diagnosis / sexual health status (HIV-AIDS, venereal disease) of the couple, and perform anal sex is great risk of physical / biological of homosexuals.

Dr. Xiridou was studying the spread of HIV among homosexuals in The Netherlands and found that HIV was spread more rapidly among homosexual couples who considered themselves to be in "steady" relationships. These couples failed to engage in "safe sex" and were involved in 6-10 additional sexual encounters outside of the primary relationship each year. Those who considered their sexual relationships "casual" engaged in 16-28 sexual encounters outside of the primary relationship each year. (AIDS,17:1029-1038, 2003)

British health officials in 2004 also expressed concern about homosexuals who use the internet to locate sex orgies, where HIV-infected and non-infected homosexuals engage in unprotected sex

"An epidemiological study" from Vancouver, Canada of data tabulated between 1987 and 1992 for AIDS-related deaths reveals that male homosexual or bisexual practitioners lost up to 20 years of life expectancy. The study concluded that if 3 percent of the population studied were gay or bisexual, the probability of a 20-year-old gay or bisexual man living to 65 years was only 32 percent, compared to 78 percent for men in general. The damaging effects of cigarette smoking pale in comparison-cigarette smokers lose on average about 13.5 years of life expectancy

 

Risks of health problems that can be experienced from unhealthy sexual behavior are as follows:

 

* HIV-AIDS

A 1997 New York Times article reported that a young male homosexual has about a 50 percent chance of getting HIV by middle age. (Sheryl Gay Stolberg, "Gay Culture Weighs Sense and Sexuality," New York Times (Late edition, east coast), November 23, 1997, section 4, p.1)

As of 1998, 54 percent of all AIDS cases in America were homosexual men and according to the Center for Disease Control (CDC) nearly 90 percent of these men acquired HIV through sexual activity with other men. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1998, June, HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report 10 (1)).

Even more alarming, the Center for Disease Control & Prevention reported in 1998 that an estimated half of all new HIV infections in the United States are among people under 25. Among 13-to 24-year-olds, 52 percent of all AIDS cases reported among males in 1997 were among young men who have sex with men. (CDC Fact Sheet: "Young People at Risk," Center for Disease Control & Prevention, National Center for HIV, STD and TB Prevention Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention, July 24, 19984)

In November, 2003, the CDC stated that HIV infection rates had risen in 29 states. There are an estimated 40,000 new HIV infections yearly with 70% of these being among men. Of those men who are infected, 60% are infected through homosexual sex; 25% through IV drug abuse; and 15% through heterosexual sex.

In April, 2005, the CDC released results of a study of 5,600 gay and bisexual men on their sex habits and attitudes about being tested for HIV. Ten percent of those surveyed were HIV positive. The CDC discovered that among those who were HIV positive, 77% were unaware that they were infected and 50% had engaged in unprotected sex during the previous six months.

 

Meanwhile, according to WHO data, the number of people living with HIV in Asia increased by more than 150%. Indonesia is the country with the fastest growing HIV epidemic. According to data of NAC (National AIDS Commission), in Indonesia until 30 September 2007 the cumulative number of AIDS cases were reported to be: 10 384 cases. This achievement is obtained based on reports from 32 provinces or 186 districts / cities. Mode of transmission of cumulative AIDS cases reported through: IDU (Injecting Drug Users) 49.5%, 42% Heterosexual, and Homosexual 4% .

When seen from this data, as the case of AIDS through homosexual relations is fairly minimal. However, subsequent data will mention the vulnerability of homosexuals to IDU (49%). Therefore homosexuals should remain sensitive and caring in dealing with the phenomenon of 4% (+ / - 415 people) of homosexuals living with HIV â € "AIDS. A description of the relationship between the susceptibility Homosexual IDU will be described hereinafter.

 

* Anal Cancer

According to J. R. Daling et.al, "Correlates of Homosexual Behavior and the Incidence of Anal Cancer," Journal of the American Medical Association 247, no.14, 9 April 1982, pp. 1988-90, the risk of anal cancer soars by 4000 percent among those who engage in anal intercourse.

In 2004, health officials in King County, Washington, reported a dramatic rise in cases of anal cancer as a result of homosexual sex.

* STI's / STD's lainnya, seperti: chlamydia trachomatis, cryptosporidium, giardia lamblia, herpes simplex virus, human papilloma virus (HPV) or genital warts, isospora belli, microsporidia, gonorrhea, viral hepatitis types B & C and syphilis.

 

While 'always' condom use reduces the risk of contracting HIV by about 85%, Condoms, even when used 100% of the time, fail to give adequate levels of protection against many non-HIV STDs such as Syphilis, Gonorrhoea, Chlamydia, Herpes, Genital Warts and others. The only safe sex is, apart from abstinence, mutual monogamy with an uninfected partner. (Sex, Condoms, and STDs: What We Now Know. Medical Institute for Sexual Health. 2002).

 

c. Risks of both mental & emotional health and physical health / biological

The behaviour below regarding to the risk of the damage of physical condition, physical / biological and mental & emotional of a homosexual. These two factors are connected / correlated with one another.

 

* Domestic Violence / Sex - Physical - Emotional Abuse

Relationships among homosexuals are often marred by violence, whether it is sexual, physical, or emotional. The motive behind it is often due to problems / mental and emotional disorders in the person of the homosexuals.

In 2003, the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs issued a study on the high rate of domestic violence among homosexual couples. The group tracked violent incidents among gay couples from 2002 and found 5,000 cases, including four murders. The statistics gathered are thought to be only a fraction of the total number of violent incidents.

A study by Susan Turrell entitled "A descriptive analysis of Same-Sex Relationship Violence for a Diverse Sample," and published in the Journal of Family Violence (vol 13, pp 281-293), found that relationship violence was a significant problem for homosexuals. Forty-four percent of gay men reported having experienced violence in their relationship; 13 percent reported sexual violence and 83 percent reported emotional abuse. Levels of abuse ran even higher among lesbians with 55 percent reporting physical violence, 14 percent reporting sexual abuse and 84 percent reporting emotional abuse.

According to a summary of this study by Knight-Ridder, studies have estimated that domestic violence among gay males ranges from 12% to 36%, which is roughly the same as for heterosexual women. In the coalition study, 34% had experienced psychological/symbolic battering; 22% had experienced physical battering, and 5% sexual battering.

In a separate study published in The Journal of Men's Studies, (March 22, 2003), researchers noted that a survey of gay domestic violence in 2000 revealed that of 52 respondents, 79% had experienced pushing, shoving, or grabbing; 77% had experienced restraining or the blocking of an exit by a partner; 64% had experienced punching, hitting, or striking with hands or fists; 54% had been slapped3.

A 1998 study revealed that of those surveyed, 62% had been threatened with a weapon and 85% had experienced significant property or financial loss from an angry partner. In addition, 39% had been forced to have sex against their will by a homosexual partner.

 

* Substance Abuse / Drug Abuse (narcotics, psychotropic and addictive substances)

Mental and emotional problems, as well as lifestyle / homosexual lifestyle may predispose a person to use drugs and drink alcohol. Substance abuse additives include drugs (ectasy, putauw / heroin, marijuana, morphine, cocaine / crystal methamphetamine, cannabis), and liquor. Substance abuse can affect health such as (disorders of the brain, nerves, liver, etc..), Also can affect mental and emotional health (to be more emotional, more numb / no feeling, paranoia, delusions, hallucinations, etc..).

Drug abuse and drinking makes a person is in a state not fully aware of, and in such circumstances the person can not control / control himself. At such times, a lot of risk that must be ready to face.

Studies from around the world indicate that drug use is high among homosexual couples. A report published in The Atlanta Journal-Constitutuion (18 April, 2004), indicating an increasing trend among young homosexual men, which they use to maintain the ecstasy of sexual activity during an orgy in progress. Those who use ecstasy three times more likely to acquire HIV.

Studies from around the globe all point to continued high rates of substance abuse among homosexuals. A report published in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (April 18, 2004), indicated that there’s a growing trend among young homosexual males to use Crystal Meth to prolong sexual activities during sex orgies. Those using Crystal were three times as likely to be HIV infected.

Health officials in Seattle reported in 2001 that drug use among homosexuals was on the rise as a way of increasing sexual pleasure. Drug use is related to unprotected and anonymous sex among homosexual males. The Midwest AIDS Prevention Project published the following statistics on substance abuse among homosexuals in 2004:

Nearly 10% of gay and bisexual men responding to a Michigan Department of Community Health survey reported that they had engaged in unprotected sex when they were high or drunk. Among gay male teenagers, 68% reported alcohol use; 44% reported drug use; among lesbians: 83% had used alcohol; 56% had used drugs.

In a 1992 survey of San Francisco lesbian and bisexual women, 30% had used drugs other than alcohol; one in seven women had experienced violence when drunk or high; and 29% reported sexual abuse.

According to this article, "Data consistently show that drug use—particularly intravenous drug use—is associated with about a 40% increased risk of HIV infection." (Sharon Worcester, "Drug abuse in gay men linked to other issues: depression, partner abuse, and childhood sexual abuse are often intertwined with drug abuse," (Family Practice News, March 1, 2005.)

 

and this:

 

Isolation, chronic disease more common among older gays, lesbians

 

print_icon.gifPrint

March 30, 2011 | Joanna Lin

senior_woman_wheelchair.jpg

 

Aging lesbian, gay and bisexual adults in California have higher rates of chronic disease, mental distress and isolation than their heterosexual counterparts, according to a report released yesterday by the UCLA Center for Health Policy Research.

An estimated 170,000 adults ages 50 to 70 in California identified as lesbian, gay or bisexual in 2007. Researchers estimate that the national population of lesbian, gay and bisexual adults age 65 and older will double to 3 million by 2030. The report's findings indicate their current and growing health needs, and the unique challenges they face as they age.

Based on data from the 2003, 2005 and 2007 California Health Interview Survey, the surveys include more than 1,000 lesbian, gay and bisexual adults ages 50 to 70 in every county in the state. The report offers the first published data on aging lesbian, gay and bisexual adults based on a large statewide population.

In California, these aging lesbian, gay and bisexual adults were more educated and were less racially diverse than heterosexual adults of the same age.

Whereas 16.6 percent of heterosexual adults had advanced degrees, 35 percent of lesbian, gay and bisexual adults did. Nearly 41 percent of heterosexual adults were people of color – African American, American Indian, Asian American, Latino, Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander, other or mixed race – compared to 22.5 percent of lesbian, gay and bisexual adults.

"By a lot of markers, this should be a fairly privileged population, but it actually wasn't," said Steven Wallace, lead researcher of the report and associate director of the center. "In spite of high education, there were still high levels of chronic illness, and a sort of average level of health insurance."

Wallace noted, however, that the proportion of racial and ethnic minorities among lesbian, gay and bisexual adults could be underreported. The survey has only a couple of questions about sexual identity, he said, and certain communities do not identify with the terms "gay," "lesbian" or "bisexual."

Health differences were most common for men. Aging gay and bisexual men were 1.5 times more likely to rate their own health as fair or poor than were heterosexual men with similar demographics. They also had significantly higher rates of hypertension, diabetes, psychological distress and physical disability.

And 50.5 percent of gay and bisexual men lived alone, compared to just 13.4 percent of their heterosexual counterparts.

"They are in a particularly vulnerable situation," Wallace said. "If you have a fall, if you need somebody to take you to the doctor, need somebody to help you with medications, that's more of a challenge."

The same was true for women. One in four lesbian and bisexual women lived alone, compared to one in five heterosexual women. The report found significantly higher rates of psychological distress, physical disability and self-reported health as fair or poor among lesbian and bisexual women.

Still, there were few differences between heterosexual, and lesbian, gay and bisexual adults in their access to and use of health care services.

Gay and bisexual men delayed care or prescriptions and visited the emergency room at about the same rate as heterosexual men. However, they were 1.19 times more likely to have visited the doctor more than three times in the past year.

But among lesbian and bisexual women, more than one in four reported delaying care – a rate 1.28 times greater than that of heterosexual women. They were also 1.09 times more likely to have had three or more doctor visits in the past year.

Because fewer lesbian, gay and bisexual adults have children, they also have less generational support than do heterosexual adults as they age.

"Most LGBT elder adults don't have the informal family networks that many seniors have, whether that's a son or a daughter, or even a spouse or a partner," said Seth Kilbourn, executive director of Openhouse, a community services and housing organization for LGBT seniors in San Francisco.

San Francisco will be home to an estimated 25,000 gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender adults over age 60 within the next five years, Kilbourn said. Given the city's expensive housing market, many struggle to find affordable housing.

Openhouse is in the process of building 109 units of low-income, subsidized housing for LGBT seniors. Located in the city's Duboce Triangle neighborhood, the $50 million project has partnered with a developer and is starting to apply for local, state and federal funding to build it, Kilbourn said.

Similar housing exists in Los Angeles. Triangle Square in Hollywood, a project of Gay & Lesbian Elder Housing, was the nation's first affordable housing development for LGBT seniors. More than 800 people applied for a spot in its 104 units in 2006.

Neither project meets the demand in their communities. San Francisco would need thousands more units of affordable housing, Kilbourn said.

Still, aging gay, lesbian and bisexual Californians have more access to resources in these cities than they do in much of the state.

"If you look at where gay and lesbian elders live, half of them live in larger urban counties," – Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego and Contra Costa, Wallace said. "That means half of them live elsewhere … where there are gay and lesbian elders, of course, but there's even fewer services."

The report recommends increasing cultural competency and sensitivity among health care providers as a first step toward improving access to and quality of care for aging lesbian, gay and bisexual adults.

It also calls for policies that extend full Medicaid and Social Security spousal benefits to same-sex partners to reduce financial barriers to health care that some older lesbian, gay and bisexual adults encounter.

Lastly, more research on this population is needed, the report says. Most population surveys do not collect data on sexual orientation, and research on older lesbian, gay and bisexual adults has been on a small scale. All major data systems in California, the report says, should include lesbian, gay and bisexual identity as a standard demographic question.

 

and this too:

 

What are important health issues that lesbians and bisexual women should discuss with their health care professionals?

 

All women have specific health risks, and can take steps to improve their health through regular medical care and healthy living. Research tells us that lesbian and bisexual women are at a higher risk for certain problems than other women are, though. It is important for lesbian and bisexual women to talk to their doctors about their health concerns, which include:

Heart disease. Heart disease is the No. 1 killer of all women. The more risk factors you have, the greater the chance that you will develop heart disease. There are some risk factors that you cannot control, such as age, family health history, and race. But you can protect yourself from heart disease by not smoking, controlling your blood pressure and cholesterol, exercising, and eating well. These things also help prevent type 2 diabetes, a leading cause of heart disease.

Lesbians and bisexual women have a higher rate of obesity, smoking, and stress. All of these are risk factors for heart disease. As such, lesbians and bisexual women should talk with their doctors about how to prevent heart disease.

Cancer. The most common cancers for all women are breast, lung, colon, uterine, and ovarian. Several factors put lesbian and bisexual women at higher risk for developing some cancers. Remember:

  • Lesbians are less likely than heterosexual women to have had a full-term pregnancy. Hormones released during pregnancy and breastfeeding are thought to protect women against breast, endometrial, and ovarian cancers.
  • Lesbians and bisexual women are less likely to get routine screenings, such as a Pap test, which can prevent or detect cervical cancer. The viruses that cause most cervical cancer can be sexually transmitted between women. Bisexual women, who may be less likely than lesbians to have health insurance, are even more likely to skip these tests.
  • Lesbians and bisexual women are less likely than other women to get routine mammograms and clinical breast exams. This may be due to lesbians' and bisexuals' lack of health insurance, fear of discrimination, or bad experiences with health care professionals. Failure to get these tests lowers women's chances of catching cancer early enough for treatments to work.
  • Lesbians are more likely to smoke than heterosexual women are, and bisexual women are the most likely to smoke. This increases the risk for lung cancer in all women who have sex with women.

Depression and anxiety. Many factors cause depression and anxiety among all women. However, lesbian and bisexual women report higher rates of depression and anxiety than other women do. Bisexual women are even more likely than lesbians to have had a mood or anxiety disorder. Depression and anxiety in lesbian and bisexual women may be due to:

  • Social stigma
  • Rejection by family members
  • Abuse and violence
  • Unfair treatment in the legal system
  • Stress from hiding some or all parts of one's life
  • Lack of health insurance

Lesbians and bisexuals often feel they have to hide their sexual orientation from family, friends, and employers. Bisexual women may feel even more alone because they don't feel included in either the heterosexual community or the gay and lesbian community. Lesbians and bisexuals can also be victims of hate crimes and violence. Discrimination against these groups does exist, and can lead to depression and anxiety. Women can reach out to their doctors, mental health professionals, and area support groups for help dealing with depression or anxiety. These conditions are treatable, and with help, women can overcome them.

Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS). PCOS is the most common hormonal problem of the reproductive system in women of childbearing age. PCOS is a health problem that can affect a woman's:

  • Menstrual cycle (monthly bleeding)
  • Fertility (ability to get pregnant)
  • Hormones
  • Insulin production
  • Heart
  • Blood vessels
  • Appearance

Five to 10 percent of women of childbearing age have PCOS. Lesbians may have a higher rate of PCOS than heterosexual women.

 

What factors put lesbians' and bisexual women's health at risk?

 

There are a lot of things that can cause health problems for lesbians and bisexual women. Some of these may be outside of your control. Other things you can work to improve upon. These include:

Lack of fitness. Being obese and not exercising can raise your risk of heart disease, some cancers, and early death. Many studies show that lesbians and bisexual women have a higher body mass index (BMI) than other women. Studies suggest that lesbians may store more of their fat in the abdomen (stomach area). Belly fat increases the risk for heart disease and type 2 diabetes. Some studies also suggest that lesbians think less about weight issues than heterosexual women do.

 

Research shows that lesbian and bisexual women are more likely to have a higher BMI if they:

  • Are African American or Latina
  • Are older
  • Have poor health
  • Have a lower level of education
  • Don't exercise often
  • Live with a female partner

Smoking. Smoking can lead to heart disease and cancers of the lung, throat, stomach, colon, and cervix. The group of women most likely to smoke is bisexual women. Lesbians are also more likely to smoke than heterosexual women are. Researchers think that higher rates of smoking among lesbians and bisexual women are due to:

  • Tobacco ads aimed at gays and lesbians
  • Differences in community norms
  • Low self-esteem
  • Stress from bias
  • Anxiety from hiding one's sexual orientation

Alcohol and drug abuse. Substance abuse is a serious health problem for all people in the U.S. Recent data suggests that substance use among lesbians — mostly alcohol use — has gone down over the past two decades. Reasons for this may include:

  • More general knowledge and concern about health
  • More moderate drinking among women in general
  • Some decrease in the social stigma and oppression of lesbians
  • Changing norms around drinking in some lesbian groups

But, heavy drinking and drug abuse appear to be more common among lesbians (especially young women) than heterosexual women. Lesbian and bisexual women are also more likely to drink alcohol and smoke marijuana in moderation than other women are. Bisexual women are the most likely to have injected drugs, putting them at a higher risk for sexually transmitted infections (STIs).

Domestic violence. Also called intimate partner violence, this is when someone purposely causes either physical or mental harm to someone else. Domestic violence can occur in lesbian relationships (as it does in heterosexual ones). But, lesbian victims are more likely to stay silent about the violence. Some reasons include:

  • Fewer services available to help lesbians and bisexual women
  • Fear of discrimination
  • Threats from the batterer to "out" the victim
  • Fear of losing custody of children

There are many resources available to women who are victims of domestic violence. All women should seek help and safety from domestic violence.

 

You can browse the rest on internet.

 

So, you can see that being gay/lesbian are much more risky than being a normal guy/woman. Not only full of disease both physically or mentally but also will decrease the possibility for human to reproduce, that will make all of us extict in a certain point of time. If you wonder how these many bad things happen to gay/lesbian, the answer is because they have arrogantly reject the truth from Allah. They deny His existence and His rule proudly and look at what He has done to them! Who will be happy if being sick for a lifetime? Is this the population you stand for all this time : sickly, mentally scarred and will make your kin dissappear? Think again wisely! Think about the knife example : will you bear to see your daughter hurt or even die only because of SHORT TERM HAPPINESS? The same applies for gay/lesbian!

I hope it will enlight you :)

Edited by Raihanna

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Raihanna, is that quoted from a web page? I appreciate taking the time to format it and everything, that must have taken a while, but I think that people browsing the thread would probably have preferred if you had just given a link. That post is huge. I'm about to start reading through it, just thought I'd let you know :)

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Oops, I am sorry for that :) My intention is purely to make things easier for you. Let me know if you have any question regarding of it

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I noticed a problem with the first study I saw cited (I'm replying to this as I work my way down, checking out the sources), I believe this is what it's referring to: http://sti.bmj.com/c.../5/345.abstract

 

You will notice that these aren't lesbians they're refering to, they're talking about non-heterosexuals. Any woman who has ever had sex with a woman even once goes into one group, and then women who have never had sex with another woman are the "control". Granted, they then divide it into "exclusive WSW", but even then it only checks back a year for sex with men, even though they check through the entire life with women. But the main issue I have is that the control is "Every woman who hasn't had sex with a woman." There are several problems with this, but the most obvious one I noticed was that the terms for the "control" group don't actually require members of the control group to have ever had sex. Do you see why that might skew the results? Furthermore, they were taking their sample from an STI and HIV service, which means that a good portion of the people who would be part of their sample would have significant reason to believe that they might have an STI already, or think they might have been born with one or became infected through a blood transfusion, and want to check. Do you see why that might also skew the results significantly? The sample is taken from a group not representative of the whole population.

 

Why didn't they take their sample from something that doesn't attract a particular demographic, but which also tests for aids? Blood donation records would probably have been more accurate, though it would still be far from perfect.

 

Edit: It appears I wasn't the first to say that. This is a peer reviewed journal, and there were criticisms of it that pointed out more issues of selection bias:

 

"For example, over twice as many of the WSW as the control group were current sex workers; 38% of the WSW had had a previous termination of pregnancy; nearly six times as many of the WSW had a history of injecting drug use."

 

Twice as many were sex workers? That probably goes a significant way towards explaining that "Four times as likely to have had over 50 sex partners" statistic. Your article also makes the claim that "lesbians have sex with men", when really it's referring to WSW (Women who have sex with women), not Lesbians. Can I see the original link to this article? It seems the writer may not have read the study thoroughly.

Edited by SuperZeZ

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This article doesn't cover the whole research. Instead, it took various researches from various sources then made them brief to strengthen its points. There are a lot of researches that made up the entire article, and all of it refer to the word "lesbian", so I don't think they have another interpretation because the researches conducted by different researchers in all over the world. It is unlikely to make agreement that the world "lesbian" should not be interpretated like it should be, except, perhaps, by a few of them.

You can type the researcher's name on search engine if you want to know about the whole research because sadly, the original article is not different with the one I posted here

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This article doesn't cover the whole research. Instead, it took various researches from various sources then made them brief to strengthen its points. There are a lot of researches that made up the entire article, and all of it refer to the word "lesbian", so I don't think they have another interpretation because the researches conducted by different researchers in all over the world. It is unlikely to make agreement that the world "lesbian" should not be interpretated like it should be, except, perhaps, by a few of them.

You can type the researcher's name on search engine if you want to know about the whole research because sadly, the original article is not different with the one I posted here

 

I don't think you mis-printed it, I just want the link so I can see where this was posted and what responses people might have had towards it. Very well, I'll look for it myself.

 

Also, I'm aware that it cites multiple different articles, but the one it cited to make the claim that "lesbians also have sex with men" and that "Lesbians are more than 4 times more likely to have had over 50 sexual partners than heterosexual women" were citing that article at that moment to back up their claims, and the claims they made from it are demonstrably false, based on a failure to notice the definitions used in the first case, and not noticing the skewed proportion of prostitutes within the sample groups in the latter.

 

And do you disagree with the point I made, that the case study I talked about is guilty of selection bias and is thus not representative of the populations it's comparing?

Edited by SuperZeZ

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SuperZeZ

 

i have something intresting for you

 

 

here is a debate between muslim and an atheist (like you), they debate about existence of God, you should watch it, very intresting

 

God - Fairy Tale or Truth? - DEBATE

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I don't think you mis-printed it, I just want the link so I can see where this was posted and what responses people might have had towards it. Very well, I'll look for it myself.

 

Also, I'm aware that it cites multiple different articles, but the one it cited to make the claim that "lesbians also have sex with men" and that "Lesbians are more than 4 times more likely to have had over 50 sexual partners than heterosexual women" were citing that article at that moment to back up their claims, and the claims they made from it are demonstrably false, based on a failure to notice the definitions used in the first case, and not noticing the skewed proportion of prostitutes within the sample groups in the latter.

 

And do you disagree with the point I made, that the case study I talked about is guilty of selection bias and is thus not representative of the populations it's comparing?

 

Are you referring to this case?

 

Promiscuity among lesbian women is less extreme, but is still higher than among heterosexual women. Many 'lesbian' women also have sex with men. Lesbian women were more than 4 times as likely to have had more than 50 lifetime male partners than heterosexual women. (Fethers K et al. Sexually transmitted infections and risk behaviours in women who have sex with women. Sexually Transmitted Infections 2000; 76: 345-9.1)

 

I have tried to read the reseach too and since medical/research thingy is not my forte, I just can say that I think these guys knew what they were doing. These are the researchers who conducted the research :

  1. Katherine Fethers
  2. Caron Marks
  3. Adrian Mindel
  4. Claudia S Estcourt

They are from:

-Sydney Sexual Health Centre, Sydney Hospital, Australia

-Academic Unit of Sexual Health MedicineDepartment of Public Health and Community Medicine, University of Sydney

 

If you have any questions, it is not me who has authority to answer it. You can contact :

Dr Kath Fethers, Clinic 34, Sexual Health Unit, Alice Springs Hospital, Alice Springs, Australia or email at kathfethers[at]bigpond.com.au

 

I have read their profiles too and it is not their first time to conduct reseach like this.

 

About "women who have sex with women", I don't think that it is referring to any other than lesbian, although they can have intercouse with male as well. I read about "Women Who Have Sex With Women" in wikipedia and found this fact:

 

"........survey of 6,935 lesbians, 77% had had sexual contact with one or more male partners, and 6% had that contact within the previous year."

 

So....?

Even if the first case is bias or else, you can't deny that in other reseaches, lesbians have bigger risk to get various diseases than heterosexuals. Because heterosexuals live their life naturally, while lesbians againts the law of nature. Men and women should be together, their bodies are formed to compliment at each other, not for the same species. That's why when they twisted it, many diseases come to them because they don't do things normally and their bodies can't take it.

To conclude, the way to salvation only with following the true path, the path given by God, Allah SWT. You can see that Islam's way of life is far less risky then any other because the followers don't drink alcohol (alcohol is bad for health, everyone knew it), don't eat pork (proven to be unhealthy, read this), have to fast during Ramadhan (which is healthy for the body! Read this), no sex before marriage (sex before marriage can create many problems such as unwanted babies, abortions, suicides, etc), and no homosexual/lesbian (they are so much more vulnerable to disease, read my previous posts). So, why are you still rejecting this wonderful way of life? Not only Islam will guarantee your fate afterlife, but also can make your life much better. Do you prefer to be happy in a short period of time, but later, plagued by sickness and in afterlife will suffer forever?

Please use your logic to think about that. May Allah will give His guidance to you :)

Edited by Raihanna

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Raihanna, I encourage you to read the studies before you use them as evidence like this, because "I think these guys knew what they were doing" is not enough to be sure something's accurate. Just because something is peer-reviewed doesn't mean it's escaped valid criticism in the peer review process. Please read the study before citing it, because as I said, the writer of the article (not the study, the main article) clearly did not read it very carefully, or he/she would have noticed the obvious flaws in their methodology. And if you think that such sloppy work has no impact on the rest of the study, you should ask yourself: If I sent you a report that began by claiming things that the cited documents didn't even remotely imply, wouldn't you question the integrity of the article in general?

 

Furthermore, some of the disadvantages the article listed to being homosexual were social, specifically mentioning bigotry against them, and 100 years ago the same argument could have been made that it's unhealthy to be black.

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Raihanna, I encourage you to read the studies before you use them as evidence like this, because "I think these guys knew what they were doing" is not enough to be sure something's accurate. Just because something is peer-reviewed doesn't mean it's escaped valid criticism in the peer review process. Please read the study before citing it, because as I said, the writer of the article (not the study, the main article) clearly did not read it very carefully, or he/she would have noticed the obvious flaws in their methodology. And if you think that such sloppy work has no impact on the rest of the study, you should ask yourself: If I sent you a report that began by claiming things that the cited documents didn't even remotely imply, wouldn't you question the integrity of the article in general?

 

Furthermore, some of the disadvantages the article listed to being homosexual were social, specifically mentioning bigotry against them, and 100 years ago the same argument could have been made that it's unhealthy to be black.

 

 

Like I said, don't ask me about the validity of the research. Ask to the researchers. Haven't I put the reseacher's email on my post? If you have contacted the researcher and got a valid answer, contact me again. If the study really used wrong methodology, wouldn't the rest of the world protest it, since it published openly on internet? The article itself published on 2007, 5 years from now. Why the experts didn't take down the study if it really was wrong?

The writer of article is not an ordinary one either. She is a psychologist with a degree and her article is scientific, not just a blog post or lazy writings. Again, if she made mistake, wouldn't her professional colleague critize it? She wouldn't dare to publish it online. This article had been there from 2009.

I don't know what you are, but these ones, both who made the article or conducted the study, clearly were capable in what they were doing. I honestly admit that both of the fields are not my forte, that's why I don't want to comment about it to avoid misleading.

This "social" thing is important because it can lead to mental illness that can damage your sanity. It is different with being black because black is not a threat to mankind, nor making the ones sickly or mentally unstable, while homosexuals/lesbians have all the traits above. Besides, with 1,5 billions muslims in all over the world, that "social" thing won't be erased easily from community. There will be muslims who will look down to them and make them depressed. It is because for muslims, homosexuals/lesbians are no better than crime. Would you stand for a murder, thief, or else for the sake of "moral" and "love"? No, that is not right, moreover if these people will eventually make the mankind dissappear. They are like a disease, if you let them, they will kill you sooner or later.

Besides, you can see from the article that this "social" thing also is not the only risks of homosexuals/lesbians, because it combines with another risks as well. See, what a great combination punishment for homosexuals/lesbians : rejection from their social environtment, high risk of mental illness, high risk of chronic disease, and in afterlife, will be burnt in hell forever, without the possibility of dying to escape the torture. Would you like to be happy for a couple of years only to gain torture MUCH LONGER? I remember my middle school's teacher taught me about economical principal : sacrifice as little as possible to gain as much as possible. But it seems to homosexuals/lesbians, they take the reverse principal: gain as little as possible to sacrifice as much as possible. What kind of logic is that? To sacrifice so much just to gain so little? Please think, think, and think! May Allah guides you :)

Edited by Raihanna

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If a serial killer specifically targeted doctors and law enforcement officers and killed them in utterly brutal ways, would that mean that allowing your children to become doctors and police officers is immoral? No, it's the serial killer's fault for killing people, not his victims for picking his target occupations as careers. Likewise, if there's psychological damage done to homosexuals because millions of muslims think they're no better than murderers, that's the muslims' fault for discriminating against people who haven't hurt anybody else, not the homosexuals for not concealing their sexual orientation from their neighbors.

 

Let me ask you something: Have you ever felt sexual attraction to another woman? Have you actually experienced this temptation? Because I have never felt sexually attracted to men, even for a moment. Very few people do. Do you know any of your straight friends who have felt such "Temptation"? I'm willing to bet you won't know very many, and I invite you to wonder why that is. Why on earth doesn't this temptation affect everybody, certainly not as much as lust and greed do? Why would Allah punish people so severely for failing a "test" that most people on earth don't ever have to take?

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About your analogy,I will try to persuade my children to wait until the serial killer caught before allowing them to be doctor or police.And I don't think it is immoral,just advice from parents who care about their children.Is giving advice to our own children considered to be "immoral" now?

Besides, who says that gays/lesbians don't hurt anybody?First,they will make the people so much busier to take care of their fragile bodies that are full of sickness and they can infect other people too with it! Second,do you know that AIDS first case come from gays in America?So they have spread a deadly disease that none can't find the a cure until now!For your information,AIDS is one of deadliest epidemic in history that has killed people more than any epidemic has ever done before. See,how much people that has been hurt,even "killed", literally,by them!Third,they are potential threat that will make the mankind dissappear! Will you stand for them after all of this? What do they give you anyway?Money?Friendship?Or else?

"Hurt anybody" doesn't always mean that it hit or beat or insult anyone. "Hurt anybody" also can be considered to indirectly making anybody misery. What lesbians/gays do is one of them.It is the same as killing people softly while they are sleeping! What kind of moral will allow such threat to be exist!

Islam is very tolerant. You can read from history that when Umar ibn al-Khattab or Saladin conquered Jerusalem,they didn't kill anybody and keep the other religion's followers to live with muslims in harmony. It's so different with crusaders who killed anybody on the spot when they conquered this holy city.

But that doesn't mean that Islam's tolerance has no limit. Anybody proven guilty will be punished severely. You can't be pity to them or any other will follow the lead and the result is very messed up society consists of this "lovable" sinners. And Islam doesn't want that.

And no,I never felt such temptation before,alhamdulillah.Adoring,yes,but not to the point of loving.But so you know,people's trial are different from each others. There are ones who are so poor,lost one of body's parts,raped,humiliated,beaten,tricked,etc.One of them is the temptation to love the same species. If you think that Allah is not fair to only give this to some people then how's about the ones who are poor,lost body's part,etc. Do you see that on everybody?

Gays/lesbians are not the only rare case. There are many rare cases in this world that happen only to certain people.For example,I ever heard about a kid who lives in a bubble because he can't stand virus/bacteria.That is including trial too,no different with gays/lesbian.

Allah will test us with several hardships to see how fare is our faith. Anybody who is patient,lives in His way, and keep worshipping Allah will be in paradise,but anybody who fails and give in temptation to be kufr will be punished. It is that simple.

I hope you will be enlighted by this :)

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Raihanna, do people who are beaten, raped, or lose body parts have a higher likelihood of going to hell?

 

Secondly, by what measure is AIDS the most deadly disease ever? It took me a while to find a list that even showed it in the top ten, and even then it was 5th.

 

Lastly, if STIs didnt exist, what would be wrong with homosexuality? I ask because obviously if Allah exists, he must have made the decision to bring AIDS into the world,

 

And again, if lesbians are NOT more susceptible to STDs than straight women are, if they're actually LESS, wouldn't that mean that being a woman and NOT being a lesbian is sinful because it spreads disease more?

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I don't know if you ever heard something like this before,but there is this sentence,"poverty will make you closer to kufr."

So,I think,every single trial can make people have higher possibility to enter hell.Only the patience ones and believers will be saved.

About the AIDS part,I refer to this one:

 

"AIDS has now killed a total of 22 million people, making it the deadliest epidemic in the history of mankind and overtaking the total of 20 million killed by Spanish Flu in

1918."

 

taken from this site : www.wsws.org/articles/2000/dec2000/aids-d04.shtml

 

And remember,while black death or spanish flu have been gone,AIDS keeps going until now,so the numbers of people infected by it will keep increasing. Moreover no cure for it until now.

The main problem of gays/lesbians in Islam is their preference towards the same sex,which is cursed in Quran. Islam forbids sex before marriage and anal sex,so do you expect it to allow same sex relationship?

But smart people later ask,"why?" Clearly because it againts nature law and will lead to human extinction and diseases. I have explained it in my previous post. I think Allah sent AIDS to punish gays and the likes for their sinful actions.

Even if lesbians have less chance to spread STD,they are still condemned by their sexual preference that againts Quran and nature law. Even if normal woman spread more STD,they still can be spared because of their noble reputation. But I am sure your analogy won't happen,because Insya Allah heterosexual women will be healthier because they live the right path of life.

May Allah guides you :)

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I think Allah sent AIDS to punish gays and the likes for their sinful actions.

 

What sinful actions? The sinful actions you're referencing are the spread of AIDS, so what exactly did homosexuals do that was so evil before AIDS?

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If a serial killer specifically targeted doctors and law enforcement officers and killed them in utterly brutal ways, would that mean that allowing your children to become doctors and police officers is immoral? No, it's the serial killer's fault for killing people, not his victims for picking his target occupations as careers. Likewise, if there's psychological damage done to homosexuals because millions of muslims think they're no better than murderers, that's the muslims' fault for discriminating against people who haven't hurt anybody else, not the homosexuals for not concealing their sexual orientation from their neighbors.

that's incorrect analogy since the jobs of doctors and police men have a great and urgent benefit to the society, what kind of benefits gays give to the society?? besides in your analogy you assume that we have no idea why those people been attaked while we fully know why the gays been attacked, because they brake the natural law (god's law for muslems)

to make a more sense, the analogy should be, if the boys used to play in a large area of land for 1000s of years and every thing went ok, then for no real (scientific) reason some got to another very small area and returned back with a quite amount of fatal diseases, am i have to stop them?!!

[for Moslems, Allah forbids that area and told us 1400 years, who ever goes their he will be punished by a new fatal types of diseases, which proven right]

 

Let me ask you something: Have you ever felt sexual attraction to another woman? Have you actually experienced this temptation? Because I have never felt sexually attracted to men, even for a moment. Very few people do. Do you know any of your straight friends who have felt such "Temptation"? I'm willing to bet you won't know very many, and I invite you to wonder why that is. Why on earth doesn't this temptation affect everybody, certainly not as much as lust and greed do? Why would Allah punish people so severely for failing a "test" that most people on earth don't ever have to take?

 

i thought an atheist is the one who follow mere science not the one who believes in superstitious!!! and so from your scientific point of view what kind of medical test/analysis have to be applied to check the truth about your claims, name me one? is it have a logic scientific measurements?!!

if their is no proof, and really there is no single proof, then the Muslems are right it's just a bad habit just like smoking and biting the figures' nails,,,,the proof is for the countries that allows the guys to try it and convince them it's ok to continue since it's "natural", these countries have 1000s of higher percentages of those sick people more than any other country. just like when you tell people it's ok to try drugs, heroin, and then wonder why they seems like that.

 

what is the very few means? give numbers and sources plz, and what is the percentage of gays in the USA if been exceeded in the society that will be "not few"? 10% ?!!

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Nice use of skepticism! You are correct, my experience that heterosexuals don't get these "urges" is anecdotal and based on my life experience, but seeing as you haven't shown any studies that demonstrate that it IS a temptation, my anecdotal evidence, however weak, is currently the strongest evidence put forward in this discussion regarding whether or not homosexuality is actually a temptation in the matter.

 

Actually, it's occurred to me that we've gone far off topic in this thread, but I wish to continue this discussion, so I think I'll make a new topic for discussion of homosexuality.

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