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The Islamic position on Slavery: A refutation of doubts

 

by 'Abdullâh bin Muhammad bin Humaid

 

Question : What is the significance of the superiority of a free person to a slave if slavery is not condemned or abolished ?

 

The way the issue of slavery is raised by Christian missionaries and critics of Islam outrages the sensibility of honest people. It is more than probable that such issues are raised with the most dishonest purposes.

 

We say that after examining Jewish and Christian scriptures where slavery is legitimized in its worst forms. The practice of slavery is accepted and praised throughout those texts. Therefore, we may counter their attack by asking : How do the missionaries call people to be converted to Christianity, when this religion legitimizes slavery ? In other words we wonder here : why do these people express abhorrence at an issue which is clearly part of their belief?

 

As against these beliefs, Islam presents an entirely different picture, contrasting with both the two earlier religions and with the state of slavery in the world just before the advent of Islam.

 

Some elaboration is necessary here to exonerate Islam of the undeserved aspersion cast on it in connection with its position on slavery.

 

 

Islam and Slavery

 

It is an Islamic principle that God created man as a fully responsible creature to carry out all religious duties, to be accountable for doing so, having the necessary volition and free behavior. No other human may restrict that freedom, and if he does he is an oppressor.

 

This is as plain a principle in Islam as plain can be. When someone wonders" How was it that Islam legitimized slavery?"; we reply without embarrassment: “Yes, Islam did legitimize slavery.” But fairness and on honest search for truth would demand that one follow up his inquiry and try to comprehend in detail the Islamic legislation concerning slavery. He should comprehend how a slave is treated in Islam, the equality between a free person and a slave in rights and duties, and also he should learn how many methods have been provided for in shariah for freeing slaves. Such legislation will be all the more admirable if it is contracted with other systems, and if contrasted with the modern version of slavery in the so-called civilized world.

 

The reader will observe that there are here numerous quotations from the Qur'an and sunnah, as the practice of the Prophet, peace and blessings of God be upon him, is of special significance here, and to emphasize the importance of separating faulty applications from the original teachings.

 

We may say here that Islam's position on slavery is superior to that of any other creed or system. If things had developed in accordance with the teachings of the Islamic shariah the unfortunate practices that were perpetrated later on would have been avoided. One major faulty practice has been the enslavement of free people through snatching, overpowering, or trickery in both old and recent past. This has led to a horrible custom of slavery in all continents, especially in Europe and Amereica in the last few centuries.

 

Islam takes a very strong exception to such practices. In a qudsi [1] tradition the Prophet says:

 

Three types of people will stand apart on the day of Resurrection as My enemies - and an enemy of Mine will be doomed; a man who vowed in My name then betrayed, a man who sold a free person as a slave and appropriated his price, and a man who employed a worker and had him do the assigned work then failed to pay him his wages."[2].

 

 

The Prophet, peace and blessings of God be on him, says : “

 

Three types of people will not have rewards for their prayer : a man who forces himself as an imam[3], a man who postpones prayer until its time is out and a man who enslaves a free person.” [4]

 

 

It is interesting to note that there is no statement in Al-Qur'an or sunnah ordering a Muslim to enslave, while statements abound in the hundreds which urge the setting free of slaves.

 

At the advent of Islam the ways and means of enslavement were numerous while the outlets to freeing were almost nil; so Islam reversed this formula, by multiplying the outlets to freedom and drying up the sources of enslavement.

 

One such source of enslavement were captives taken in war who were routinely enslaved or killed off.

 

But Islam introduced a third alternative in which a prisoner-of- war is treated well and set free. This is the purport of the following verses of the Sacred Qur'an :

 

" (The devotees of God ).. feed, for the love of God, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive, -(saying), " We feed you for the sake of God alone : no reward do we desire from you, nor thanks." (76, 8-9)

 

The above verses indicate such sympathy and kindness that need no commentary. We may quote here a tradition of the Prophet's, peace be upon him, exhorting noble conduct :

 

"Visit the sick, feed the hungry, and set free the captives'[5].

 

In the first clash between Muslims and their enemies, the Battle of Badr, the Muslims won, and a number of the noblest Arabs fell captives in the hands of Muslims. If such dignitaries were punished severely they would have deserved such punishment - they had done so much harm to Muslims at the early stage of Islamic da'wah (call to Islam). Nevertheless, the Sacred Qur'an directs the Prophet and his companions in these words :

 

"O Apostle ! say to those who are captives in your hands : 'If God findeth any good in your hearts, He will give you something better than what has been taken from you, and He will forgive you : for God is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. But if they have treacherous designs against thee (O Apostle), they have already been in treason against God, And God is He who hath (full) knowledge and wisdom." (8, 70-71).

 

 

Since the beginning of the Islamic da'wah and up to the battle, those men had done Muslims all kinds of injury and cruelty with the intention of overpowering and exterminating them. In a state like this, would it have been good policy to set the captives free at once ?

 

The situation is obviously related to the state's high interests. Therefore, the Muslims accepted ransom to free prisoners-of-war after the Battle of Badr, while after the fall of Makkah its inhabitants were told (by the Prophet): "You may go, for I give you your freedom." At the Raid of Al-Mustalak the Prophet married a noble captive from the defeated tribe, thus raising her status. The result of this was that all Muslims set free all the captives in their hands.

 

It must be clear by now how few ways of enslavement were left open through Islamic legislation. To abolish it completely would not do, since the disbelieving captives had been fierce in confronting the cause of justice and truth at least in being a tool in the hands of oppressors. To set them free as a routine would only have led to the supremacy of oppression and tyranny.

 

After all, the chances of regaining freedom in Islam are numerous and frequent. And the rules of treating slaves are just and merciful.

 

Let's just mention some of the ways of freeing slaves : A share of zakat (i.e. the enjoined charity) is allotted to the freeing of slaves, the atonement for unintended killing, the vow of thihar[6], atonement for broken oaths, for breaking the fast during the day of Ramadan. There is besides this a general appeal to the human sentiment of Muslims to set slaves free for the pleasure of God.

 

As for the treatment of slaves, let's survey here some of the rules laid down by Islam to ensure a decent and kind treatment for them.

 

 

1/ Giving them the same food and clothing as taken by their masters

 

Abu Dawood reports on the authority of Al-Ma'roor bin Suwaid that he said : "We entered Abu Thar's house at Al-Ribthah [7] and found him dressed in a garment called 'burd', and found his slave dressed in an identical 'burd'. So we said : ' Why don't you, 0 Abu Thar, wear that 'burd' of your slaves so that you may have a full suit, and give him instead a less sumptuous garment ?' He replied : 'I heard the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings of God be upon him say

 

: " Those slaves are your brothers, only God gave you an upper hand over them. So let that who has his brother (i.e. slave) under him give him the same food he himself eats, and the same clothing as he himself wears. The master may not give his brother a task that is beyond his ability. If he does give him such task, let him lend him a hand.".

 

 

 

2/ Recognizing their dignity

 

Abu Hurairah narrates that the Prophet of Repentance (i.e. Prophet Muhammad) said

 

: " Any one who slanders his slave with adultery, and it is a false charge, will receive on the Day of Resurrection the same punishment his slave would have received in the world had the charge been true." [8]

 

Abdul-Lah bin 'Umar freed a slave of his then picked a twig from the ground and said:

 

" I shall not receive for freeing him the worth of this in the Hereafter. I heard the Messenger of Allah say : ' If a man hits or beats his slave, his atonement is the freeing of that slave."[9]

 

 

3/ A slave is given the lead in religious or mundane matters which he is skilful at.

 

He can be imam (i.e. to lead the prayer). Aishah had a slave who led her prayer. The believers are even ordered to heed and obey if a slave becomes their ruler, so long as he proves to be better qualified than others.

 

Freedom is man's natural right. No one may be deprived of this right except for an exceptional reason. Although Islam recognizes slavery within the limits we have explained, it strictly warned those who have the upper hand of freedom against manipulating their position for cruel ends. Beyond that, we assert that it is justified to hold a person who falls captive as a result of his aggression, but it is necessary to treat him nicely.

 

If someone does fall a captive and becomes a slave, then shows signs of repentance, gives up his old way of life, forsakes the way of evil and follows a well-guided life, such a person should be set free : Islam favours such response to a slave's conduct. Some Islamic jurists enjoin freeing him and other recommend it !

 

The Prophet, peace and blessings of God be on him, again and again ordered kindness to the slaves. For instance, when the captives taken in the Battle of Badr were distributed he directed : "Be kind to your captives."

 

Uthman bin 'Affan once punished a slave of his by pinching his ear-lobe. But he told him later : " come and pinch my ear." And when the slave would not do, he insisted. So the slave proceeded to pinch Uthman's ear lightly, but Uthman said : "pinch more painfully, I have no endurance for punishment on the Day of Resurrection." "Well Sir," rejoined the slave, "the day you fear I fear, too."

When Abdul-Rahman bin 'Awf walked in the company of his slaves, people would not know who is master and who is slave - nor did he have smarter clothing.

 

'Umar bin Al-Khattab once walked in Makkah and saw some slaves standing aside waiting, while their master ate. He was angry at this and inquired of the master :

 

"Why do some masters regard themselves as superior to their slaves ? "

 

Then he ordered the slaves to advance and eat.

 

A man once entered the house of Salman, may God be pleased with him, and saw him kneading his dough. "What are you doing, Abu 'Abdullah[10]? " " I have sent my servant on an errand, " he answered. " So I didn't like to give him some more work." This is some of what Islam did for slaves !

 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

The Jews' Attitude to Slaves

 

According to the Jews, people are of two classes, Jews and gentiles.

 

As for Jews, they may be enslaved in some cases within the teachings of the Old Testament.

 

All the others are worthless gentiles. They may be enslaved through subjugation and conquest. They are condemned races who have been written off for misery since an early age. In this regard, some verses from the Book of Exodus are significant:

 

“When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, ' I love my master, my wife, and may children; I will not go out free, ' then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for life. When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt faithfully with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money." (21,2-11.)

 

 

As for enslaving a non-israelite, it might be effected through overpowering or snatching, because they believe that their race is superior to other races. They try to justify such enslavement by referring to texts in their Old Testament. According to that Scripture Ham, son of Noah, father of Canaan, raised the anger of his fater. That was because Noah drank wine one day and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent. Ham, the Father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father. When his father knew what Ham had done to him be said:

 

:" Cursed be Canaan; a slave of slaves shall he be to his brothers. " He also said, " Blessed by the lord my God be Shem; and let Canaan be his slave. God enlarge Japheth, and let him dwell in the tents of Shem; and let Canaan be his slave. " (Genesis, 9, 24-27).

 

Queen Elizabeth I used the above text to justify her trading in slaves in which she was, as we shall see, an active trader.

 

 

The Christians' Attitude to Slavery

 

There is no condemnation or prohibition of slavery anywhere in the Bible. It is surprising, therefore, that historian William Moyer should reprimand our Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God be on him, for failing to abolish slavery at once, while he condones the Bible's attitude. Neither Christ, nor his apostles, nor the church make any statement in that connection. On the other hand, St. Paul commands slaves to be loyal to their masters, as may be seen in his Epistle to Ephesos.

 

St. Thomas Aquinas, for his part, added the voice of philosophy to that of churchmen. He did not object his master Aristotle who had accepted slavery as a natural state suitable for a certain type of people.

 

The saints asserted that nature had prepared certain types of people to be slaves. In the Grand Larousse of the nineteenth century one reads : " It is no wonder that slavery lingers among Christians up to the present - the formal representatives of religion still assert its legitimacy and justify it." It also adds : " To sum up, Christianity approved completely of slavery, and it still does, so that no one can prove that this religion endeavoured to abolish slavery,".

 

In the 'Dictionary of the Bible' by Dr. George Joseph, it is stated that Christianity did not object to slavery on either political or economic ground. It did not exhort the believers to argue with their generation about slavery, and not even to raise the issue.

 

It said nothing against the rights of slave owners, nor did it rouse the slaves to seek freedom. It neither discussed the woes and cruelty of slavery, nor did it ordain the immediate freeing of slaves. It is unanimously agreed that Christianity did nothing to alter the relative status of master and slave - it rather endorsed the rights and duties of both parties.' So we call upon all white fathers of the church and the respected reader to contrast the Islamic legislation and the other systems in the world.

 

 

Modern Europe and Slavery

 

The reader would be right to inquire at this time of progress and development about the attitude of Europe, the pioneer of progress and development, toward slavery.

 

When Europe found its way to Africa it was a disaster for the latter that lasted for five centuries. The Europeans had a genius for devising ways to ensnare the Africans, to take them to Europe or its colonies, and to force them to such drudgery that contributed to a development of economic life. Later on, America joined Europe in subjugating the Africans, and the latter had to serve one more master.

 

The Encyclopaedia Britannica has the following to say about slavery:

 

"The hunting of of slaves from their villages in the midst of jungles was effected by setting fire to the straw used in building barns around the village. Once the villagers ran out for their lives, the English hunted them.”

 

 

Apart from Africans who died during their flight, or on the way to the coast for shipment, one third of the survivors died of bad weather, 45% in traspartation overland, 12% during the sea voyage, and some more died on plantations.

 

The English companies were given the monopoly of trading in slaves by a license from the British government. But, at a later stage, all citizens were given a free hand to import slaves. Experts estimate the total number of Africans imported by the British alone to be slaves between 1680-1786 A.D. at about two million one hundred and thirty thousand.

 

One article of the so called ' Black Code' states that any slave who attacks his master is to be executed, and if he runs away his hands and feet are to be cut off. If he runs away a second time, he is to be killed. (Although how he can do that with his hands and feet cut off beats me. Maybe he will risk it as the kind of life awaiting him is worse than death).

 

One article prohibits education for blacks. Another prohibits a black person from professions preserved for whites. In America one of the laws decreed : It is a felony for seven slaves to meet, and if a white person passes by and sees that they have met, he has the right to spit on them and to give each twenty lashes.

 

Another law stated : Slaves have no souls, no wit, no intelligence, and no will. The life is concentrated in their muscles. In summary: the slave had to take full responsibility for duties, and if he failed to do his full service he was to be punished; but as for his rights, he was no better than an animal without soul or feeling. It is only in this century that the Westerners felt the prick of conscience. It is great injustice on their part to feel superior to Islamic legislations, which were ordained more than fourteen centuries back. It is rather a case of ‘projection'; charging others with one's own faults.

 


1 A tradition in which the prophet speaks for God.

2 Reported by Al-Bukhari.

3 A person who loads congregational prayer.

4 Reported by Abu Dawood and Ibn Majah, both on the authority of Abdul-Rahman bin Zaid Al-Ifreegi.

5 Reported by Al-Bukhari.

6 A vow by which a husband would not cohabit with his wife for a known period.

7 A village in the suburbs of Al-Madinah.

8 Reported by Al-Bukhari.

9 Reported by Muslim and Abu Dawood.

10 I.e. father of Abdullah, a traditional Arabic way of calling a man as father of his eldest son.

 

Extracted from “A Refutation of Doubts about Current Issues” published by Al-Manara Publishing & Distribution

 

 

Source: http://www.islaam.ne...iew.php?id=1211

Edited by Saracen21stC

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PropellerAds
The reader would be right to inquire at this time of progress and development about the attitude of Europe, the pioneer of progress and development, toward slavery.

The section that followed this doesn't seem to really describe Modern Europe, which was the title of the segment.

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This is an issue I tend to wrestle with in Islam. The idea of taking captives as slaves during war and charging the jizya seems to be following the behaviour of conquerors in the past. Here a typical parallelisms:

  • Romans conquered and took slaves during wars - so did Muslims.
  • Once a people or a nation were conquered by the Romans they were charged taxes - Muslims charge the jizya; regardless of the zakat the jizya is not meant to create an economic balance.
  • Conquered people were treated as second class people to Romans - Non-Muslims are treated as second class people living in an Islamic state.

I find this type of behaviour hardly to be by divine command and no better than previous conquerors...

 

No bible quotes please, we are discussing Islam.

That is an interesting parallel. I am interested to see what response it will evoke.

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Augustine missed out on many other important points mentioned in the article. Also we do not know what does he mean by 'divine'. For that we will have to search for quotes from 'Holy' Bible. Do not have choice.

Edited by Saracen21stC

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Augustine missed out on many other important points mentioned in the article. Also we do not know what does he mean by 'divine'. For that we will have to search for quotes from 'Holy' Bible. Do not have choice.

Wouldn't divine just be something "of God". Thus a divine command would be a "command from God". What do you think are the points that demonstrate the falsity of his comparison?

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This is an issue I tend to wrestle with in Islam. The idea of taking captives as slaves during war and charging the jizya seems to be following the behaviour of conquerors in the past. Here a typical parallelisms:

  • Romans conquered and took slaves during wars - so did Muslims.
  • Once a people or a nation were conquered by the Romans they were charged taxes - Muslims charge the jizya; regardless of the zakat the jizya is not meant to create an economic balance.
  • Conquered people were treated as second class people to Romans - Non-Muslims are treated as second class people living in an Islamic state.

I find this type of behaviour hardly to be by divine command and no better than previous conquerors...

 

No bible quotes please, we are discussing Islam.

 

Did you read the whole writings or just make assumption on your own after skimming it? Read it fully and you will understand why muslims take captives.

Maybe you don't know that jizya is ordered by Allah in Quran. Here is the verse :

 

Fight those who do not believe in Allah

or in the Last Day and who do not

consider unlawful what Allah and

His Messenger have made unlawful

and who do not adopt the religion

of truth from those who were

given the Scripture - [fight] until

they give the jizyah willingly while

they are humbled. (9:29)

 

And will be abolished by second coming of Prophet Isa (pbuh) or the one you know by the name of Jesus. Here is the hadith:

 

God’s Messenger said: By him in

whose hands my soul is, (Jesus) son of

Mary will descend amongst you shortly

as a just ruler and will break the

cross and kill the pig and abolish the

jizyah . Wealth will flow (in such

abundance that) nobody will accept

(any charitable gifts). (Bukhari)

 

Why do conquered people pay jizya? Read it, I took it from wikipedia:

 

"...jizya was a material proof of

the non-Muslims' acceptance of

subjection to the state and its laws,

"just as for the inhabitants it was a

concrete continuation of the taxes

paid to earlier regimes." In return,

non-Muslim citizens were permitted to

practice their faith, to enjoy a

measure of communal autonomy, to

be entitled to the Muslim state's

protection from outside aggression,

and to be exempted from military

service and the zakat taxes obligatory

upon Muslim citizens."

 

And I don't think anybody being second class citizens in Islamic state. Maybe they are treated a bit differently, but at least people doesn't hold phobia of them or do bad things to them, unlike those "civilized" western countries towards Islam.

If you don't want we compare it to your bible then never compared anything Islamic to others. Don't ask for something you don't want to fall upon you. That is not fair.

I suggest you to read FULLY about "Christian Attitude Towards Slavery" above or do research about how many civillians were killed by crusaders during their conquest times, including when they were conquering Jerusalem. You will find that muslims' conquests are MUCH MUCH BETTER and peaceful (They conquered Jerusalem peacefully).

So, the conclusion, look at your religion first before pointing your fingers towards others. Islam is perfect and can be explained by logic, while yours....? I hope you will get enlightment

Edited by Raihanna

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I appreciate your post but I’m still not convinced. Non-Muslims could have signed an official declaration of acceptance, that would have been sufficient material proof rather than paying tax..

 

God bless,

 

Where do you live? Are you free from tax? I am sure not. Why don't you complain to your government and say, "I could have signed an official declaration of acceptance, that would have been sufficient material proof rather than paying tax..." I am sure they will laugh at you or ask your sanity.

You can ask anyone the reason why do you have to pay tax and they will gladly give you long lecture about that.

Jizya is the same as tax in Islam, but it is used for nonmuslims only, while muslims pay zakat. Islam has freed the nonmuslims from many muslims' duties and ensure their safety. What else could humans expect if they lose the war? I think nonmuslims must pay jizya for punishment to not embrace Islam. After they convert, no more jizya to be paid.

Mere paying jizya is a lot better than many bloody conquests in this world. Look at how Inca, Aborigin, and Indian were slaughtered and forced to give their own land to intruders that now happily occupied it. Where's the love or mercy or whatever your religion had taught them? Or is it Islamic states that begin world war whether series 1 or 2 and killed millions of innocent?

Think using your logic or common sense and you will see that Islam is much more peaceful than what you think. I hope you still can think straightly and not blinded by dogma in your religion

Edited by Raihanna

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Governments in civilized countries don’t charge tax to people according to their religion and treat them as second class people because of the religion they choose to follow.

 

I’m not using my religion to make a point but plain common sense.

 

God bless,

 

Yeah, because these "civilized" countries can't apply their religion rules to rule the people. Why? Because they are full of nonsense and weird. While Islamic rules are APPLICABLE and fully capable used to rule people. See the difference of Allah's rules with another's? Can't be the same.

What is so wrong with differentiating the kind of tax? It is not only nonmuslims who pay "tax" but muslims as well, but its name zakat not jizya. There are numerous kind of taxes in this world and many distinction so I think it is not wrong to make another kind of tax unless you desperately seek for a reason to blame Islam.

We, muslims, have orientation not only in this world but also hereafter and clearly Allah's treatment to nonbelievers is not same with the believers, so what if we apply it in this world? Moreover jizya is straight order from Allah in Quran. If someone dislike it, he is free to move to another region. No one will force him to convert to Islam, unlike crusaders who force the conversion to anyone under their rule.

So, have you made up your mind? I hope so

Edited by Raihanna

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I’m sorry but I still disagree, your arguments have flaws in them.

 

I don’t understand why you have to include the crusades, I remind you they were a response to the Islamic conquests but that’s a topic to be discussed on its own.

 

God bless,

 

What flaws? Why didn't you mention it and we can have a nice discussion about it here?

I inserted the crusaders so you would know how fare was your religion compared to us, since you always so eager to point out what you thought of "Islamic flaws" while I couldn't see those flaws anywhere and everything in Islam could be explained logically.

I can't force you to believe me, the decision is up to you. My duty here is just explaining to you and others about Islam and prevent all of you from misunderstanding.

 

Or (the unbelievers' state) is like the

darkness in a deep sea. It is covered by

waves, above which are waves, above which

are clouds. Darkness, one above another. If

a man stretches out his hand, he cannot

see it... [24:40]

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-Don't talk about discrimination with us while your religion has done A LOT MORE discriminations towards us. Prohibiting muslims to wear burkha in france is discrimination. Probihiting to perform adzan in some european countries is discrimination. Prohibiting the tower of Masjid is discrimination. Generalizing that all muslims are terrorist is discrimination. The complete lists can cover all of your house's wall. While we just arrange the small thing like jizyah to differentiate between muslims and nonbelievers. It is the same as the differentiation between the amount of tax for the rich and the poor. Should it be the same? How if the rich complain about "discrimination"? I hope you will see the context before writing comment

-I have answered that there was no second class citizen whatsover! It is matter of differentiation like I explained above. What western countries did in colonialism and imperialism era are MUCH MUCH WORSE! They did enslave people of their conquered territory. What is your explanation about it? Where is the application of love thingy that always your religion tell to others? Nothing!

-Read again my first explanation. And it is not only church, mosque also denied to be built in some western countries. So stop whining here, we have our own problems. Discrimination happens everywhere,not only exclusively done by muslims but also done by others including YOUR RELIGION as well

-Have you opened a history book?Tax has been there since ancient egypt time. So, should I say that the roman has copied ancient egypt? Talking about suspicion, I also am highly suspicious of the bible. How come something divine can be corrected by humans over and over again and have so many versions? Not to mention incest,adultery,drinking and all bad things strangely done by PROPHETS. So your messengers chosen by your god are troubled people? Even I won't choose someone like that as leader,let alone the almighty god,who must want his message spread by the right people. Really, my common sense can't accept something like that called holy book

So,my suggestion,go to your own religion forum and preach there rather than always try to make another religion's image bad. Your religion is not that perfect and good,so why do you have tendency to search for others' religion's imperfection?Not going to work,because Islam is perfect and all your arguments will be answered and become useless in the end.

I hope you will realize the truth.

 

They desire to put out the light of Allah

with their mouths but Allah will perfect His

light, though the unbelievers may be averse. (61:8)

Edited by Raihanna

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One thing I’ve noticed about you is you tend to start a dialogue nice and gentle then when someone persistently doesn’t agree with you, you get agitated and attack your opposition. I don’t think you’re mature enough to discuss a topic from both sides so I’ll just end this wishing you God’s blessing.

 

I didn't mean to attack but to COMPARE your religion with mine. And I should tell you that you were the one who started to "attack" my religion. None likes that. If you have guts to point out another's imperfection, surely you feel yours is the most perfect, right? So I tried to show you how was your religion compared to ours and you couldn't answered all my arguments. Was it my fault while you were free to answer? Remember that I was not mocking/insulting in any way, just showed you THE FACTS.

Well, hope you will realize it one day

Edited by Raihanna

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I think I have reasonably answered your posts; I don’t wish to continue this topic. If I have offended you or other Muslims here then I sincerely apologise.

 

P.S. it was a stimulating conversation while it lasted. Take care.

 

I understand if you wish to stop, we can't have a debate forever. Note to yourself to answer all questions and doubts in a forum directed to you, not just choose a few of them because it is not convincing and will lead people to think that you avoid it because you don't have the answers.

So yeah, I still hope you will realize the truth in Islam someday after engaging in many threads here. Just don't attack us unreasonably or write dirty words like others and you will be welcomed to post here. Always remember that you will get what you give to others. Life is about take and give afterall

Edited by Raihanna
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Excuse me I didn’t ask for your advice regarding my dealings, so don’t give advice if it’s not asked for. It’s bad enough you didn’t apologise in return for being rude to me. It seems you’re too arrogant to be humble enough to offer a small apology...

 

Now who is being arrogant here for refusing to accept any advices? Do you know where you are? You are in Islamic forum, not in your religion forum. As guest, you are expected to behave. I helped you to know what to do in this forum. If you refuse, don't blame me if any muslims missunderstand you someday.

I have said earlier that I mere compared your religion to mine after your first attack towards my religion. If you are hurt because of that, then NEVER THINK TO ATTACK ANY RELIGIONS! DON'T EXPECT ANYONE NOT TO ATTACK YOU AFTER YOU ATTACKED THEM!

What I want to say in my previous post is life is reciprocal. When you attack others, you will be attacked as well. Don't think that you can hurt others but you can not be hurt. I have read in your previous posts here that whenever you critized Islam, you would beg so your religion not to be critized. That is WRONG and UNFAIR. So you want to hurt others but don't want to be hurt. That concept doesn't work on me. If you hurt others, prepare to be hurt.

Why do I have to apologize? I don't think I have done anything wrong. I was not in insulting level or saying dirty words towards you. I compared our religions in acceptable words.

But don't think I am arrogant because of that. I have apologized too in this forum if needed (search for my old posts) but I think I am not wrong this time.

I can't force anyone to like my style. Maybe I am not that gentle but I will not step the limit of decency, Insya Allah

Edited by Raihanna

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Whatever man, I don’t care about your personal opinion or advice. I don’t take advice from people with huge egos and there’s not enough room in here for you and your ego. Get over yourself and learn the meaning of humility, see ya.

 

Finally you show your true colors after trying to be so nice and polite all this time. Have your mask torn apart facing me? :D

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE PLACE FOR MUSLIMS HERE. If Gawaher has no heart to ban those members with dirty words, why will they reject me? Yeah, I am critical but I never wrote dirty words or insulted openly. I try to be good member and defend Islam all this time. So Insya Allah I will still have place here.

Get over yourself and learn the meaning of reciprocal :D

Edited by Raihanna

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Finally you show your true colors after trying to be so nice and polite all this time. Have your mask torn apart facing me? :D

 

Hey princess what drugs are you on?? Augustine did not say anything unpleasant or rude but the truth. Your ego stinks and your attempted exhibition of superiority has failed. The joke is on you princess :D

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Thanks for calling me "princess" though, but a member with bad-mouth like you don't deserve any respects from me, TROUBLEMAKER. Ah, I forget. Aren't you junker from the last time? Give salutation to yourself because I still respond to you this time. Next time I won't ever bother to read your post. I will be always waiting for the day when the moderator ban you :D

Edited by Raihanna

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You have to understand that slavery in Islam is/was different to how we normally understand it today. Since there is no khilafah its hard to show everyone how in Islam slavery is completely different. Slavery was more like a job. There many many examples of how slaves in Islam ended up becoming great scholars, governors, military generals, etc.

 

You just can't compare that to anything else. I mean where in the world can slaves become governor's, scholars and even leaders of Armies or assume other such high positions and status?

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You have to understand that slavery in Islam is/was different to how we normally understand it today. Since there is no khilafah its hard to show everyone how in Islam slavery is completely different. Slavery was more like a job. There many many examples of how slaves in Islam ended up becoming great scholars, governors, military generals, etc.

 

You just can't compare that to anything else. I mean where in the world can slaves become governor's, scholars and even leaders of Armies or assume other such high positions and status?

 

Assalamualaikum,

That is right, Brother. Thanks for enlighting us :)

I think Islamic slavery is much more better than other's slavery. But maybe it is hard for people outside Islam to see it because their minds have been filled with Islamophobia. I still hope that they can see it someday, though

Wassalam

Edited by Raihanna

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Let me make some historical remarks

The author of this topic either doesn't know much about the history of slavery or
deliberately deceives people into thinking that European slavery was worse than
Islamic one. In fact the situation was totally different.


In Europe efforts to outlaw any form of slavery have been made since 10th century when
Venice became the first European city to abolish slavery. There hasn't
been any indigenous Muslim abolitionist movement.
 

Not only did Arab slave trade last far longer than European
one (1400 years) but it was far harsher and brutal than European one. It is
estimated that about 50-80 mln Black Africans fell victim to Arab slave
traders, with two thirds of them dying en route to Muslim lands and 90% of
surviving men dying due to primitive sterilization methods (most male slaves
were sterilized). The biggest slave uprising in history took place in... 9th
century Iraq when 500,000 slaves overthrew their Arab masters and fought a
bloody rebellion for several years.
 

The Ottomans weren't any better and extended their slavery
to Europe. Over a 150 year period about 3 mln Hungarians had been forcibly
uprooted from their homeland and sent into Ottoman Empire, often as sex slaves.
Many Muslim scholars still say that it's ok for a man to have sex with a slave
woman whether she wants it or not (a de facto permission to rape) because that is permitted in the Qur'an.
 

It wasn't until 1950s and 1960s when Gulf Arab countries
began abolishing slavery - mostly due to western pressure. Last slaves were
traded in Mecca in... 1960(!!!). Some Salafi scholars still regard abolishment
of slavery as if it was an evil decree imposed on them by kuffar, not as
something that was necessary.

I haven't heard of any Muslim scholar apologizing for the atrocities listed above. And
probably there will never be any.

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"Many Muslim scholars still say that it's ok for a man to have sex with a slave

woman whether she wants it or not (a de facto permission to rape) because that is permitted in the Qur'an."

 

Sexual intercourse with a slave is allowed provided it is consensual.

 

The Arab slave trade wasn't according to Islamic etiquette, i.e. most of it was too harsh just like the transatlantic slave trade. The way Arabs treated their slaves wasn't necessarily according to Islamic Law. 

 

By the way, your estimate of 50-80 million is just that - an estimate. There are other estimations that it was much lower.

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There is one hadith that sounds especially disgusting to me:

 

"The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives.

Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."
(Abu Dawud 2150)

 

So "Allah the Exalted" sent down a revelation saying that Muslims can have sexual intercourse with captured women in front of their husbands... So now just ask yourself a question - would any captured woman not only have sex with her captors but also have it IN FRONT OF HER HUSBAND? Just think.

 

There is evidence that women were traded just like any other commodity:

"Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham/Hisham 693)

 

Muslims often claim that Islamic slavery is better than eg. Western one because only "prisoners fo war" can be enslaved. However, Islamic definition of a POW is different from the one we know today

“…and then we attacked from all sides and reached their watering-place where a battle was fought. Some of the enemies were killed and some were taken prisoners. I saw a group of persons that consisted of women and children [escaping in the distance]. I was afraid lest they should reach the mountain before me, so I shot an arrow between them and the mountain. When they saw the arrow, they stopped. So I brought them, driving them along” (Sahin Muslim 4345)

 

These women weren't combatants. They were fleeing Muslims.

Edited by Guan Yu

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So "Allah the Exalted" sent down a revelation saying that Muslims can have sexual intercourse with captured women in front of their husbands... So now just ask yourself a question - would any captured woman not only have sex with her captors but also have it IN FRONT OF HER HUSBAND? Just think.

 

These women weren't combatants. They were fleeing Muslims.

 

The words "in the presence of" are no where to be found in the Arabic text.

 

Yes, it's quite obvious that the women were not combatants. 

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L

Not only did Arab slave trade last far longer than European

one (1400 years) but it was far harsher and brutal than European one. It is

estimated that about 50-80 mln Black Africans fell victim to Arab slave

traders, with two thirds of them dying en route to Muslim lands and 90% of

surviving men dying due to primitive sterilization methods (most male slaves

were sterilized). The biggest slave uprising in history took place in... 9th

century Iraq when 500,000 slaves overthrew their Arab masters and fought a

bloody rebellion for several years.

 

 

All is very rediculus specially this passage!!! would you please tell your sources

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"Many Muslim scholars still say that it's ok for a man to have sex with a slave

 brother, Younes

 

you are just talk about imaginary cases, since according to Islam there is no any remaining source of slavery is there. Alhamdullelah Islam restricted and reduced the slavery sources and opened a wide gates to set them free, and that worked well. during the transient period Islam set the most great humanitarian laws to deal with them " your slaves are your brothers, Allah put them under your authority to check you, cloth them as you cloth your selves and feed them as you feed your selves and don't over load them if though then you must help them....."

 

you can find the commentaries of Napilon (the french leader) and his collegues when occuping Egypt (1798-1801), he tells you can't distinguish between the master's sons and his slaves.....

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Does it matter whether it was 50-or 80 million?

If a Muslim murders one person they believe it is as if they killed all of humanity; if this is true, then doesn't it follow that a Muslim who takes a slave is as if they made slaves of all humanity? In this case, the number 50 or 80- million is moot

 

not only  50 or 80 million or even 800000 thousand milion are great, but  Yes of course only one innocent sole is a great number,,,,the question is who invent these numbers and based on what?!!

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