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A Troubling Verse

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Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.

This seems like such a horrific punishment that I found myself troubled reading it. Could anyone explain to me how disbelief merits having your skin constantly burnt off?

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I don't understand how our finite crimes can result to an infinite punishment.

 

Who is being offended? God; since God the infinite being is offended it results in an infinite offence.

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If you choose to reject god and not believe in him after he has bestowed so many blessings and favors upon, sent messengers with proofs then surely for this rejectment of god the punishment should be severe. Not only that but God through his mercy has told you of the punishment awaiting you if you choose that path and has made it severe which too many is a detterent for those who fail to take heed.

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I don't understand how our finite crimes can result to an infinite punishment.

 

Maybe because if people lived forever they would still have committed those crimes or disbelieved, etc. So if someone died at age 80 he was still going to disbelieve at 81.. or 8000 or if he lived forever he would have forever, etc.. Just a thought..

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Who is being offended? God; since God the infinite being is offended it results in an infinite offence.

Why does God's infinite nature make him want to punish people for all of eternity? If anything, you would think it would work the other way. I can do serious harm to finite beings, but God, I can't even lay a finger on him. And yet God is willing to forgive the actual harm I cause finiite beings, but cannot be appeased if I should do something as simple as dying while not believing in him. Why doesn't God's infinite nature make him more willing to forgive?

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If you choose to reject god and not believe in him after he has bestowed so many blessings and favors upon, sent messengers with proofs then surely for this rejectment of god the punishment should be severe. Not only that but God through his mercy has told you of the punishment awaiting you if you choose that path and has made it severe which too many is a detterent for those who fail to take heed.

But isn't it enough punishment that you lost the many blessings and favors God sought to give you? Why must you be severely punished in addition to this? Not that I can say it is not true. Obviously if it is in the Qur'an than it must be accepted as truth to be a Muslim. I just find it such a terrible thought that God would want to constantly burn peoples flesh off for eternity.

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Maybe because if people lived forever they would still have committed those crimes or disbelieved, etc. So if someone died at age 80 he was still going to disbelieve at 81.. or 8000 or if he lived forever he would have forever, etc.. Just a thought..

But who would disbelieve once they saw God? There couldn't be any unbelievers once they have died and seen the truth. And why not just dispel their disbelief and be done with it, why torture them for eternity even after they have seen you and realized their disbelief was wrong?

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But who would disbelieve once they saw God? There couldn't be any unbelievers once they have died and seen the truth. And why not just dispel their disbelief and be done with it, why torture them for eternity even after they have seen you and realized their disbelief was wrong?

 

God is infinite in his mercy, but he also perfect in justice and holiness. A sinful man cannot be in same presence of God’s holiness. In order for a man to be justified he must offer up an infinite atonement which he obviously cannot do.

 

Now people will argue why can’t the almighty God simply forgive sins? God cannot exercise one of his attributes while ignoring his others, otherwise he would be lying to himself. Where’s the justice in simply just forgiving? Where’s the atonement needed in order to satisfy justice? He God not a just God?

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But who would disbelieve once they saw God? There couldn't be any unbelievers once they have died and seen the truth. And why not just dispel their disbelief and be done with it, why torture them for eternity even after they have seen you and realized their disbelief was wrong?

 

Nobody would disbeliever, i.e. not believe in God. However, even Satan who has talked with God directly is a disbeliever. Not in the sense that he does not believe God exists. But he is a rebel. Allah says in the Qur'an that were the disbelievers to be returned to Earth, they would revert back to their old ways of defiance. They would not worship God.

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well maybe as humans we can not understand this 100% , we muslims definitely believe that human has less knowledge than god who has the all knowledge , he knows his creations , knows what inside their hearts very well, and I know 100% that god will not punish anyone except if he or she really deserves the punishment.

 

there are couples of facts that we can't do anything to change them.

 

-hell is there

-paradise is there too

-we have born

-god has sent messengers for warning us

-god has sent messengers for telling us what

to do.

so after we knowing these facts...

the decision is in our hands to choose what we want

 

1-to believe and worship god , so we enter paradise and live there forever.

2-to not believe the messages and live as we want , so later we enter the hell forever.

 

why we asking (why would god punish us in the hell forever?) when he already warned us about it but we choose to not believe .

we should ask our selves (what are we waiting to not worship and believe in god ? )

instead of asking ( why would god punish us forever ?)

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In my book, the word disbeliever equals the word fool.

Let's presume for a minute that one of the 2 parties, the believers and the disbelievers, could be wrong.

If the disbelievers are wrong, and it turned out that there really is a god, a horrible horrible future awaits them, for eternity.

If the believer is wrong, no harm awaits them, but the gains already collected would be huge: a clean body, refreshed 5 times a day, fear of a super power that forces everyone, specially the weak in morals to follow strict ethics and good relations with everyone in humanity.. everyone lives in peace and equality.

 

Allah sunhanahu wataala brought us to earth as test field. He gave us the means to sin and the means to do good, and he made it clear what rules to follow, and what consequences awaits us. We are not to discuss those rules, and we are in no position to judge who imposed them. They are imposed on us and that's it. We can either decide to take them or leave them. Its up to us. The road to paradise and eternal bliss is clear, and so the road to hell-fire, and unheard-of torture, for eternity.

 

In short, disbelievers has 2 choices, a win-win situation, and a lose-lose situation. When someone dies insisting on the second choice, I feel sorry for them, but more confident of my definition.

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Verses and ideas like this are at the root of my belief that there is no God.

I have tried to lead a good and moral life, and if I am wrong about a deity and an afterlife, I'll just have to accept my fate.

Fear is not going to become my major reason to have faith!

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I have tried to lead a good and moral life,

If every human being on earth led a good and moral life like you do, then there would be no need for religions or messengers. But because that was never the case, we all need religion, if not to make you any better, at least to make your world more safe and peaceful.

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God is infinite in his mercy, but he also perfect in justice and holiness. A sinful man cannot be in same presence of God’s holiness. In order for a man to be justified he must offer up an infinite atonement which he obviously cannot do.

I don't see what that has to do with perpetrating horrific torment on people for eternity. And why cannot a sinful man be in the presence of God. Is God not present now. Are there not sinful men present now? Why cannot this arrangment continue?

 

Now people will argue why can’t the almighty God simply forgive sins? God cannot exercise one of his attributes while ignoring his others, otherwise he would be lying to himself. Where’s the justice in simply just forgiving? Where’s the atonement needed in order to satisfy justice? He God not a just God?

So if someone offends me, I cannot forgive them unless I perpetrate injustice? What kind of justice is that that requires death in order to appease it? Why can God not forgive an offense if the offended party is himself?

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Nobody would disbeliever, i.e. not believe in God. However, even Satan who has talked with God directly is a disbeliever. Not in the sense that he does not believe God exists. But he is a rebel. Allah says in the Qur'an that were the disbelievers to be returned to Earth, they would revert back to their old ways of defiance. They would not worship God.

I'm not sure what a believing disbeliever is. But even if they did continue to be rebellious, does this merit torture? God is so powerful, and their disobedience is so weak.

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I know 100% that god will not punish anyone except if he or she really deserves the punishment.

I understand it is an article of faith that God is perfectly just and good. But what could you do to deserve having your skin burned off of you for eternity? What could you do to deserve having your skin burned off of you even once?

 

why we asking (why would god punish us in the hell forever?) when he already warned us about it but we choose to not believe .

we should ask our selves (what are we waiting to not worship and believe in god ? )

instead of asking ( why would god punish us forever ?)

But if a King told us that he has made a new law forbidding anyone disagree with him upon pain of horrific torture and death, is it adequate to comfort ourselves by saying that we were warned? Should we really not question such a sovereign but instead question our own feeling of discontent with the law? As for why someone might not worship and believe in god, perhaps they do not know that god exists. No one worships a God they don't believe in.

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In my book, the word disbeliever equals the word fool.

Let's presume for a minute that one of the 2 parties, the believers and the disbelievers, could be wrong.

If the disbelievers are wrong, and it turned out that there really is a god, a horrible horrible future awaits them, for eternity.

If the believer is wrong, no harm awaits them, but the gains already collected would be huge: a clean body, refreshed 5 times a day, fear of a super power that forces everyone, specially the weak in morals to follow strict ethics and good relations with everyone in humanity.. everyone lives in peace and equality.

 

Allah sunhanahu wataala brought us to earth as test field. He gave us the means to sin and the means to do good, and he made it clear what rules to follow, and what consequences awaits us. We are not to discuss those rules, and we are in no position to judge who imposed them. They are imposed on us and that's it. We can either decide to take them or leave them. Its up to us. The road to paradise and eternal bliss is clear, and so the road to hell-fire, and unheard-of torture, for eternity.

 

In short, disbelievers has 2 choices, a win-win situation, and a lose-lose situation. When someone dies insisting on the second choice, I feel sorry for them, but more confident of my definition.

I am sorry friend Dot, but that is not the situation I face. I have the Christian God threatening me. The Islamic God threatening me. The Jewish God threatening me. I have Buddhists telling me there is no God, the Hindus telling me there are many gods. There is wrath and torment everywhere I turn. It is not a win-win situation, but a win-lose-lose-lose.... situation for as many religions threaten my supposed soul with damnation should I not believe in their exact version of God/gods. As for the atheist, there are benefits. I can live as I see is right without guilt that i have offended a wrathful god. I can spend or give my money and time as I see fit. I am liberated from numerous religious obligations like prayer, fasting, and/or pilgrimages. Not that this will compensate me should I be wrong, but I do not believe the atheist gains nothing.

 

And regardless, this still does not seem to answer the question. You say I am not allowed to question them, and yet the question arises automatically in me, the horror and aversion to such cruelty is not something I can turn off.

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I believe it comes down to this: He cannot be questioned as to what He does, while they will be questioned. (21:23)

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I believe it comes down to this: He cannot be questioned as to what He does, while they will be questioned. (21:23)

 

True!

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Verses and ideas like this are at the root of my belief that there is no God.

I have tried to lead a good and moral life, and if I am wrong about a deity and an afterlife, I'll just have to accept my fate.

Fear is not going to become my major reason to have faith!

 

You will accept you fate because you will have no other choice. But you will be extremely extremely regretful. For your own sake I urge you to consider Islam with an honest and open mind and ask God for guidance. Seek guidance. A Persian man gave up his wealth, family, nation to travel in search of guidance and he found it. He was the great companion of Prophet Muhammad(saw), Salman the Persian. I'm sure today we don't need to go through as much trouble as he did. But seek it. Seek guidance. Ask God to guide you. Keep asking and keep seeking

 

After death its too late. God gave us everything. He made air for us to breath, he gave us wives, children, wealth and family and all these things we find joy and happiness from. He created water and food for us. He promises an eternity of happiness and neatness to Him. Eternity of of peace and unimaginable pleasure and unimaginable happiness.

 

All He asks in return is that you believe in Him and worship Him. That's all He asks. And let me tell you. You have no idea what you are missing by not praying or fasting, etc.

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I believe it comes down to this: He cannot be questioned as to what He does, while they will be questioned. (21:23)

Is there no meaning to the questions which weigh upon my heart when I read of such cruelty?

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Is there no meaning to the questions which weigh upon my heart when I read of such cruelty?

 

I was looking for some answers for what you asked on the Islam qa website, when i stumbled across this verse:

 

48. Verily, Allah forgives not that partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allah in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin.

 

Surah 4, Verse 48

 

 

You can read more if you want here:

 

 

http://islamicemirat...-the-women.html

 

It might not have much to do with your questions but I thought it might help.

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I was looking for some answers for what you asked on the Islam qa website, when i stumbled across this verse:

 

 

 

 

You can read more if you want here:

 

 

http://islamicemirat...-the-women.html

 

It might not have much to do with your questions but I thought it might help.

I don't see how it helps, but I appreciate your consideration.

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I have the Christian God threatening me. The Islamic God threatening me. The Jewish God threatening me. I have Buddhists telling me there is no God, the Hindus telling me there are many gods. There is wrath and torment everywhere I turn.

There is only one god. He is the same god in all divine religions. He is the god of Buddhists, fire worshipers mice worshipers, pyramids worshipers, money worshipers, devil worshipers, atheists.. you name it. He is the author of all divine books. The reason we invite you and the rest of the world to Islam, is because we follow the only message from God that was not corrupted by man.

 

There is wrath and torment everywhere I turn

Let's face it: God is the most merciful, and He is also the most severe in punishment. But you get to pick the side you prefer.

If you prefer to gamble, you'd be betting more than you can handle.

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