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Signs Of The Judgment Day, Muhammed Prophecies About Future

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So, all in all, no signs of immenent Judgement Day. Everyone stop panicking!

Phew, you can't imagine my relief at this news, I'll be going ahead with the wedding plans as set then? :) counting the days :D

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You go girl Tunisia , my 48th Anniversary is coming up in two months , I will be raising a glass .Long life , love and happiness in yours . :yes:

Edited by Aligarr

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You go girl Tunisia , my 48th Anniversary is coming up in two months , I will be raising a glass .Long life , love and happiness in yours . :yes:

Thank you Aligarr :) your anniversary will soon be upon you. Congratulations, I hope my marriage lasts as long as yours. Not long out of the honeymoon period I have every reason to suppose it will last forever, well.. Till death does us part ;) I love the very bones of him. :)

Edited by Tunisia

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This hadith i cant find the reference anywhere 

we continue with signs of the Judgment day

 

 

Muhammed said:

Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time.(Ahmad, Musnad)

 

how? with these

4.jpg

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This hadith i cant find the reference anywhere 

 

18, The Messenger of Allah (saw) said regarding Al-Dajjal: "He will stay in the land(earth) forty days; he will enter every place on earth except the Ka'bah, the Prophet's Masjid, Al-Aqsa Sanctuary and Mount Sinai". (Ahmad)

 

 

24, Al-Nawwas Ibn Saman Alkalbi (ra) narrates that the Prophet (saw) said, "If Al-Dajjal comes forth while I am amongst you then I shall dispute with him on your behalf, but if he comes after I am not with you, a man must dispute on his own behalf, and Allah will take to protecting every Muslim. Those of you who live up to his time should recite over him the opening verses of Surah Kahf, for they are your protection from his trial". We asked, "How long will he remain on earth"? He (saw) replied, "Forty days, one like a year (1 day will be equivalent to 1 year), one like a month, one like a week and the rest of his days like yours"? We asked, "Will one day's prayer suffice us in the day which will be like a year"? He replied, "No, you must estimate of its extent. Then Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Virgin Mary) will descend at the white minaret to the east of Damascus. He will then catch Al-Dajjal up at the gates of Ludd and kill him". (Abu Dawud)

 

5. Nawas(ra) bin So'man narrated that : Prophet(saw) said, “The Dajjal's movement will be very fast. It will roam the sky like a cloud driven by wind.” [Muslim, Tirmizi].

 

6.   One of the companions asked,” O Allah’s Messenger, how fast will he travel? Thereupon he (saw) said,” like cloud driven by wind”. [Muslim,Tirmizi]

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Hadith about satellites

ikea-plate-white__0084589_PE211401_S4.JP

dish

 

Parabolanten-500x400.JPG

satelite

 

 

The Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) said about one of the signs of the end of times is that " The dishes (atbaq) will communicate continuously and people will sever their family ties. " (Tabarani, in the chapter Kitab al Fitan). This saying is originally in Arabic.

 
Commentary on the miracle in this hadith is based on shaykh Hamza Yusuf:
In Algeria and North Africa in Africa, in Arabic, the satellite dish is called "Tabaq" (singular), "Atbaq (plural). The tabaq is a concaved dish and so it makes sense that the Arabs used this word for the satellite. The Prophet used the same word Atbaq for predicting satellites. He also used the modern Arabic word for satellite communications, he said "tuwasal al-atbaq. Thus he said "The dishes will communicate continuously and people will sever their family ties." In other words people will stay at home to watch tv and not visit their relatives or neighbours.

Notes:

1) Shaykh Hamza Yusuf's comments can be found at:

 

2) The other word for satellites used in the east is "Sahn". This is an incorrect word for the satellite because a Sahn is a flat dish, and so doesn't apply to satellites

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Is their reference to that hadith iv noticed Hamza Yusuf has quoted lots of hadiths which i cannot find but that doesnt mean they dont exist but plz can u post reference 

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Is their reference to that hadith iv noticed Hamza Yusuf has quoted lots of hadiths which i cannot find but that doesnt mean they dont exist but plz can u post reference 

 

i am also searching for it, it is in (Tabarani, in the chapter Kitab al Fitan), but i cant find it on internet

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i dont trust alot of these hadiths quoted online without references for e.g Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time.(Ahmad, Musnad) whats the reference?

 

 

anyway i found this hadith 

Sahih- Tirmidhi Vol. 4, Book 12, Hadith 2569
The Euphrates shall soon uncover a treasure of gold, so whoever witnesses it, let him not take anything from it."
"The Hour will not come to pass before the River Euphrates dries up to unveil the mountain of gold Bukhari book 19 hadith 15
Now this hadith is happening the river euphrates is drying up a
 
"Ancient buildings have emerged from the river bed in Iraq's western Anbar province as the Euphrates River dries up."


Read more: http://www.grandestrategy.com/2009/06/prophecy-of-euphrates-drying-coming.html#ixzz3agrBpDGH

Sa'ad Naji."

"We began looking around the area, and we found clay jars and old bones, coins and even some GOLD  jewelry" he says.

Read more: http://www.grandestrategy.com/2009/06/prophecy-of-euphrates-drying-coming.html#ixzz3agrHRw52

 

so its happening but not happened what do u think brother Andalusi 

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Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal>Al-Mujjalad Al-Rabi’>Awal Musnad Al Kufiyyin> Hadith Mihjan bin Al-Adra> Hadith #18207 (2nd Entry)


Narrated by yunus, narrated by Hammad meaning Ibn Salamah, about Sa’id Al-Jurayi, about ‘Abdullah bin Shaqiq, about Mihjan bin Al-Adra’, that God’s Messenger, may God’s blessings and peace be upon him, addressed the people and said:


“The Day of Riddance, what is the Day of Riddance? The Day of Riddance, what is the Day of Riddance? The Day of Riddance, what is the Day of Riddance? (three times).


So it was said to the Prophet: ‘What is the Day of Riddance?’


The Prophet said: ‘Al-Dajjal will come, and he will climb Uhud, and he will look at Al-Madinah and he will say to his companions: ‘Do you see that WHITE PALACE ? That is the Masjid of Ahmad.’ 


 


Did you notice the part about the “white palace?”


 


If you have been to Madinah, or seen pictures of the prophet’s Masjid like the one shown above, then you already realize the enormous truth of this statement. When this hadeeth was stated and written down the prophet’s house, which later became Al-Masjid Al-Nabawi was merely palm trunks and mud walls about 98′ x 115′ feet. This is a prophecy of tremendous truth, power, and proportion. If Muhammad was not a Prophet of God, how could he ever had predicted such a monumental thing over 1,400 years before it happened?


 


 


Original-MAsjid-Nabawi-638x250.jpg


 


 


 


 


masjid-nabawi.jpg?w=620&h=465

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Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal>Al-Mujjalad Al-Rabi’>Awal Musnad Al Kufiyyin> Hadith Mihjan bin Al-Adra> Hadith #18207 (2nd Entry)

Narrated by yunus, narrated by Hammad meaning Ibn Salamah, about Sa’id Al-Jurayi, about ‘Abdullah bin Shaqiq, about Mihjan bin Al-Adra’, that God’s Messenger, may God’s blessings and peace be upon him, addressed the people and said:

“The Day of Riddance, what is the Day of Riddance? The Day of Riddance, what is the Day of Riddance? The Day of Riddance, what is the Day of Riddance? (three times).

So it was said to the Prophet: ‘What is the Day of Riddance?’

The Prophet said: ‘Al-Dajjal will come, and he will climb Uhud, and he will look at Al-Madinah and he will say to his companions: ‘Do you see that WHITE PALACE ? That is the Masjid of Ahmad.’ 

 

Did you notice the part about the “white palace?”

 

If you have been to Madinah, or seen pictures of the prophet’s Masjid like the one shown above, then you already realize the enormous truth of this statement. When this hadeeth was stated and written down the prophet’s house, which later became Al-Masjid Al-Nabawi was merely palm trunks and mud walls about 98′ x 115′ feet. This is a prophecy of tremendous truth, power, and proportion. If Muhammad was not a Prophet of God, how could he ever had predicted such a monumental thing over 1,400 years before it happened?

 

 

Original-MAsjid-Nabawi-638x250.jpg

 

 

 

 

masjid-nabawi.jpg?w=620&h=465

That's kind of easy, if the account was committed to writing and was widely available, then it's very possible over time people changed your prophets house to resemble the written account. How can it be taken as proof of prophethood? A Prophet is a person who speaks for God, either forth telling or foretelling. There has to be some point to mankind in the prophecy, some benefit. Maybe ask why would such detail of the appearance of a particular building matter to God or how would it benefit mankind?. It's kinda like saying "I will send a prophet, He will be wearing a red coat". Anyone can then don a red coat and claim he is the prophet. It's too vague.

 

That's why the Bible tells us we are not to believe in all prophets, and not to trust just anyone who comes along and claims to be a prophet from God without testing them first. God gave us the criteria to test such prophets, so it's fairly easy to tell the wheat from the chaff. I'm not even sure if a prophet is seen in the same terms in the Qur'an as it is in the Bible.

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That's kind of easy, if the account was committed to writing and was widely available, then it's very possible over time people changed your prophets house to resemble the written account. How can it be taken as proof of prophethood? A Prophet is a person who speaks for God, either forth telling or foretelling. There has to be some point to mankind in the prophecy, some benefit. Maybe ask why would such detail of the appearance of a particular building matter to God or how would it benefit mankind?. It's kinda like saying "I will send a prophet, He will be wearing a red coat". Anyone can then don a red coat and claim he is the prophet. It's too vague.

 

That's why the Bible tells us we are not to believe in all prophets, and not to trust just anyone who comes along and claims to be a prophet from God without testing them first. God gave us the criteria to test such prophets, so it's fairly easy to tell the wheat from the chaff. I'm not even sure if a prophet is seen in the same terms in the Qur'an as it is in the Bible.

 

 

NO your argument is weak its not easy because the Masjid at the time was made out of leaves palm trees etc a simple structure it was impossible to make the Masjid into a white palace 1400 yrs ago fast forward 1400 yrs the Masjid resembles a white palace. 1 after another u are just rejecting your heart is sealed u dont want the truth. Think about it 2000 yrs if jesus had a simple church  simple structure made out of few bricks leaves etc then he says this will become a white palace one day whats the chances ? theres also a possiblity the structure will be completly destroyed and never rebuilt so Muhammad even prophesied   his Masjid will still stand. There is no guarantee if i build a house i cant gurantee it will be standing after 100 200 300 yrs yet Muhammad guranteed that. 

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NO your argument is weak its not easy because the Masjid at the time was made out of leaves palm trees etc a simple structure it was impossible to make the Masjid into a white palace 1400 yrs ago fast forward 1400 yrs the Masjid resembles a white palace. 1 after another u are just rejecting your heart is sealed u dont want the truth. Think about it 2000 yrs if jesus had a simple church simple structure made out of few bricks leaves etc then he says this will become a white palace one day whats the chances ? theres also a possiblity the structure will be completly destroyed and never rebuilt so Muhammad even prophesied his Masjid will still stand. There is no guarantee if i build a house i cant gurantee it will be standing after 100 200 300 yrs yet Muhammad guranteed that.

NO your argument is weak its not easy because the Masjid at the time was made out of leaves palm trees etc a simple structure it was impossible to make the Masjid into a white palace 1400 yrs ago fast forward 1400 yrs the Masjid resembles a white palace. 1 after another u are just rejecting your heart is sealed u dont want the truth. Think about it 2000 yrs if jesus had a simple church simple structure made out of few bricks leaves etc then he says this will become a white palace one day whats the chances ? theres also a possiblity the structure will be completly destroyed and never rebuilt so Muhammad even prophesied his Masjid will still stand. There is no guarantee if i build a house i cant gurantee it will be standing after 100 200 300 yrs yet Muhammad guranteed that.

Doesn't matter what it was made of to start with, if it's written somewhere for generations to follow can read, then it can become whatever it needs to be to fulfil your "prophecy". You have no guarantee that the Masjid will actually stand forever because you won't be around to see it centuries hence. That is something you have to take of faith.

 

Jesus would never had made any such prophecy because buildings have no value to a persons spiritual enlightenment. The "church" as in a building has no value, because Jesus Himself is our church. One of course that will stand for eternity and cannot ever be destroyed because it has no walls or roof. But if you're asking what are the chances of such a prophecy made by Jesus coming true, then for sure 100% certain. However, as Jesus did not concern Himself with such inconsequential matters such as buildings it's a moot point.

 

I have the truth, the only truth that is the Word with God. I reject your above hypothesis on the grounds it's hardly proof of prophethood, it has no benefit to a persons spiritual growth and I can't see any benefit to be found in any building or man made structure lasting forever. What benefit do you take from this yourself? I think you guys look too hard to find anything you can attribute as a miracle to Muhammed, did Muhammed ever say he could do miracles? I was told he never claimed he could do miracles. It's like muslims through the ages have attributed all kind of events as miracles, even when there seems very little point or reason. It then becomes unconvincing to non muslims, or christians who have the Bible miracles of various prophets and the hundreds fulfilled in Jesus alone as comparison.

 

Maybe you should compare "miracles" in the Bible and Quran and see how they are seen differently.

 

No offence meant, I'm just saying as I myself see. :)

 

Just to add, even if it did stand forever this would be by Gods will not by the power of a man.

Edited by Tunisia

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how could u make a white palace 1400 yrs the prophecy has been fulfilled because he is talking about the future and then it turns out to be a white palace in the 21st century. 

 

Jesus made no prophecies that have come true today can u show me 

 

think about it imagine your living 1000 yrs ago and u say this structure 1 day will turn out to be a mansion  whats the chances because 1000 yrs u couldnt make a mansion especially among the desert bedoin arabs. u really cant refute it ur just assuming the prophecy has been fufiled in front of your very own eyes yet u still reject it.

 

Muhammad spoke so confidently for sure the Masjid will turn out to be a white palace whats the chances,

 something could happen like an army could come and destroy everything and kill every1 for e.g the romans were the most powerful they could of gone into medina destroyed the Masjid and killed everyone the Islam would of ended in Medina and there would be no white palace.

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You're missing the point, what is the importance or relevance of such a prophecy to mankind? What do you yourself benefit from this?

 

The prophecies of Jesus pertain to the end of days, many are yet to come to pass before Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead. If you are taking the "prophesy" of Muhammed and the White Masjid as proof of his prophethood, then.. Yes Jesus fulfilled many prophecies. Down through history, God provided us a roadmap. He foretold various signs and conditions through His prophets. These prophets spoke of things that mankind should watch for so that the Messiah would be recognized and believed. These signs or prophecies were given to us in the Old Testament. The Old Testament is the part of the Bible written before Jesus was born. Its writings were completed in 450 B.C. The Old Testament, written hundreds of years before Jesus’ birth, contains over 300 prophecies that Jesus fulfilled through His life, death and resurrection.

 

Mathematically speaking, the odds of anyone fulfilling this amount of prophecy are staggering. Mathematicians put it this way:

 

1 person fulfilling 8 prophecies: 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000 1 person fulfilling 48 prophecies: 1 chance in 10 to the 157th power 1 person fulfilling 300+ prophecies: Only Jesus!

 

Prophecies Jesus said will be fulfilled before His coming for

 

1.The human race would have the ability to exterminate itself

 

In Matthew 24:22, describing world conditions prior to His second coming, Jesus said that “if that time of troubles were not cut short, no living thing could survive; but for the sake of God’s chosen it will be cut short”

 

Mankind has had the ability for nuclear annihilation for about fifty years give or take, Equally there are biological weapons capable of producing the same result. It's only a matter of time.

 

 

Another... 2. The gospel will be preached in all the world

 

In His major end-time prophecy, Jesus answers the question posed by the disciples:

 

After listing a number of signs of the nearness of His coming, He reveals that “this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come” (Matthew 24:14).

 

The gospel is the good news of the coming Kingdom of God. This message could not be preached around the world without the Bible and freedom of religion. Both came gradually with the ascendancy of the English-speaking peoples from the 16th century until the present day.

 

However, it was only with the technological advances of television and radio and other means of mass communication after World War II and their widespread acceptance that it became possible to reach hundreds of millions of human beings with the message of the Bible. The gospel of the Kingdom of God will continue to be preached to all nations, despite many countries not allowing it openly. It's Gods Will so it will come about.

 

There are others but I hope you can see that the prophecies of Jesus were not to do with the material world, of buildings and the like. They were of greater meaning and have consequences for all of mankind, not just christians who believe on Him.

 

I already said why I reject it, I do not see its relevance or spiritual meaning as prophesy. You are free to believe what you like. :)

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Salaam alaikum. Muhammad also prophesied that the sun will rise from the West, after it is told to rise from its "setting place" instead of doing this from its "rising place".

 

A problem I see with this prophecy that the sun neither has a "rising place" or a "setting place". It doesn't rise or set on either the earth or any other planet, since it does not orbit any planet that it could "rise" or "set" on.

 

It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) one day said:

Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.
 
 
The context of the prophecy was that at sunset, a companion of Muhammad came upon him in the Masjid, and Muhammad asked him if he knows "where the sun goes". Abu Dharr said that Muhammad and God know better, and Muhammad explained.

 

Narrated Abu Dharr:

I entered the Masjid while Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was sitting there. When the sun had set, the Prophet (ﷺ) said, "O Abu Dharr! Do you know where this (sun) goes?" I said, "Allah and His Apostle know best." He said, "It goes and asks permission to prostrate, and it is allowed, and (one day) it, as if being ordered to return whence it came, then it will rise from the west." Then the Prophet (ﷺ) recited, "That: "And the sun runs on its fixed course (for a term decreed)," (36.38) as it is recited by `Abdullah.

 

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/97/52

 

Who told Muhammad that the sun has a "rising" and a "setting" place it travels to and from? We know this is not true.

 

Looking forward to discussing this with you.

.

Edited by TG1234567

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2 responses this is knowlege on the unseen that we do not know but also it could have a symbolic meaning as its clear the hadith says the sun prostrates but doesnt literally prostrates it prostrates only is known to Allah 

 

we say sun rises sun sets we dont literally mean it rises and sets 

 

“The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.” (Ecclesiastes 1:5)

 is that an error?
 
we have an english expression ' it's raining cats and dogs” does it really rain cats dogs no its a clear metaphor to mean  it is raining very heavily. 
 
That hadith has a metaphorical meaning it doesnt literally  rise or set   the rising setting just means praising God possibly 
 
but anyway your in a dilemma  accept your Bible is in error or if not then hadith is not in error 

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[at] TG1234567 maybe start another thread ... not sure if this is right place for it :) I would like to hear the answer tho.

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Salaam alaikum, Muslim4life7.

 

2 responses this is knowlege on the unseen that we do not know

How can it be a matter of the unseen whether or not the sun goes to a "rising place" or "setting place"? It is easily observed by astronomers, and there are no such places it travels to, nor does it set or rise on anything.

 

 

 

 

but also it could have a symbolic meaning as its clear the hadith says the sun prostrates but doesnt literally prostrates it prostrates only is known to Allah 

 

we say sun rises sun sets we dont literally mean it rises and sets 

 

“The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.” (Ecclesiastes 1:5)

 is that an error?
 
we have an english expression ' it's raining cats and dogs” does it really rain cats dogs no its a clear metaphor to mean  it is raining very heavily. 
 
That hadith has a metaphorical meaning it doesnt literally  rise or set   the rising setting just means praising God possibly 
 
but anyway your in a dilemma  accept your Bible is in error or if not then hadith is not in error 

Thanks for pointing out the verse in Ecclesiastes. As a Christian, I used to believe the Bible is completely and entirely free from error, however the more I have discussed it and read it the more I have realized this is not the case. There are many scientific and historical errors in the Bible, as well as contradictions. 

 

Acknowledging that the Bible has errors is not a dilemna for me of any sort, and it doesn't save Muhammad's teachings either. 

The error in Ecclesiastes is a good example, but later on I will show you another one that is actually even more relevant to the hadiths.

 

You stated that the saying that the sun rises and sets is just a metaphorical meaning, and compared it to the saying "it is raining cats and dogs".

 

Here is the problem with this defense, however:

The expression "it is raining cats and dogs" is a 20th century saying, and people know during this time that it does not rain pets.

 

On the contrary, during the medieval ages, it was widely accepted and believed that the sun orbits around the earth and the terms "sunrise" and "sunset" were understood to literally mean just that.

 

The Fall of the Geocentric Theory, and the Rise of Heliocentrism

The geocentric theory reached its pinnacle with the system devised by Ptolemy. Ptolemy's geocentric theory continued to be the system of choice as the Roman empire succeeded that of the Greeks. With the fall of the Roman empire (circa 450 AD), it was left to the Arabs to keep the Ptolemaic view of the universe alive. In 622 AD, the Prophet Mohammed launched his holy war against the infidels. Within a century, the Islamic Empire extended eastwards across northern India to the borders of China, and westwards across Asia Minor, to north Africa. With the Arabic conquest of Spain and Sicily, the empire made it into western Europe. Alexandria (Egypt), the center of classical learning, fell to the Arabs in 642. When the period of military expansion ended, Islamic scholars became enthusiastic students of classical philosophy. Many important manuscripts were translated from Greek into Arabic. In the world of medieval Islam, Aristotle and Ptolemy were the supreme authorities in matters of natural science and astronomy. They continued to make observations, and to refine the data that went into the model while streamlining/advancing some of the calculation techniques. But they did not make any modifications to the underlying philosophy.1

"In 999 AD, Gerbert of Aurillac, the most accomplished mathematician, musician, astronomer and classical scholar in Europe, ascended to the papal throne as Sylvester II, known as 'the magician Pope' to his contemporaries. His papacy, at the symbolic date 1000 AD marks the turning point of the European 'dark ages'. Contact was established with Arabic centers of learning in Spain, where Muslim, Christian and Jewish scholars congregated. During the following centuries, Hebrew and Arabic versions of ancient Greek texts were translated into Latin and began to circulate in Europe. The works of Aristotle were translated from around 1200. The translation of Ptolemy's Almagest into Latin in 1175 re-vitalised European astronomy. King Alfonso X of Castile (1122-1184) commissioned new astronomical tables calculated according to Ptolemy's theory with Arabic mathematical refinements. Completed in 1252, the Alphonsine Tables remained the best astronomical tables available in Europe for the next three centuries. The complexities of the Ptolemaic system exasperated King Alfonso however. When the intricacies of epicycles, deferents and equants were explained to him Alfonso 'the Wise' is said to have remarked that if the Almighty had consulted him on the matter, he would have recommended something a little simpler... "
1

Eventually, with the re-emergence of European learning in the 13th century,  the geocentric view of the universe would be adopted by the Catholic church. It is interesting that in the early European universities, Ptolemy's theory was relegated to the world of mathematics, calendars, and astrology. It was purely a mechanical model of the celestial motion, and not the "true" nature of the universe as described by Aristotle. The latter would be given a more revered place in higher learning, and especially in questions of philosophy and theology.

http://astronomy.nmsu.edu/tharriso/ast105/Ast105week04.html

 

As we can see, the geocentric model was during Muhammad's time something that was widely accepted.

 

 

Secondly, if I were to just say "it is raining cats and dogs", that would be one thing. If I began to describe what kind of canines and felines will be dropping from the clouds, or at what angle they will fall, it would become very clear that I was not simply using an expression.

 

In the hadith we examined, Muhammad did not merely say the sun will rise from the West. He stated that it travels to and from "a rising place" and that one day it will rise from "a setting place". What would be the point of describing the sun's movement to and from these "places" if he didn't believe they existed?

 

Lastly, to the errors in the Bible concerning the sun's alleged rising and setting.

 

Joshua 10:12-14 describes an event during which God allegedly made the sun stop moving, making it remain in the sky, until the israelites led by Joshua defeated their enemies.

 

12 On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to israel, Joshua said to the Lordin the presence of israel:

“Sun, stand still over Gibeon,
    and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”
13 So the sun stood still,
    and the moon stopped,
    till the nation avenged itself on[b] its enemies,

as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. 14 There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lordlistened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for israel!

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua+10&version=NIV

Of course, we know that the sun did not "stand still" nor was it "delayed going down", since the sun "rising" and "setting" is independent of its movement but is dependent on the movement of the earth. If the day did indeed last an extra 24 hours, this would have been caused by the earth stopping, not the sun.

 

Why is this relevant? Well, believe it or not, Muhammad repeated the same story. 

 

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "A prophet amongst the prophets carried out a holy military expedition, so he said to his followers, 'Anyone who has married a woman and wants to consummate the marriage, and has not done so yet, should not accompany me; nor should a man who has built a house but has not completed its roof; nor a man who has sheep or shecamels and is waiting for the birth of their young ones.' So, the prophet carried out the expedition and when he reached that town at the time or nearly at the time of the `Asr prayer, he said to the sun, 'O sun! You are under Allah's Order and I am under Allah's Order O Allah! Stop it (i.e. the sun) from setting.' It was stopped till Allah made him victorious. Then he collected the booty and the fire came to burn it, but it did not burn it. He said (to his men), 'Some of you have stolen something from the booty. So one man from every tribe should give me a pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with me.' (They did so and) the hand of a man got stuck over the hand of their prophet. Then that prophet said (to the man), 'The theft has been committed by your people. So all the persons of your tribe should give me the pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with me.' The hands of two or three men got stuck over the hand of their prophet and he said, "You have committed the theft.' Then they brought a head of gold like the head of a cow and put it there, and the fire came and consumed the booty. The Prophet (ﷺ) added: Then Allah saw our weakness and disability, so he made booty legal for us."

 
Although the prophet in this case was not named, he addressed the sun and he asked God to "stop it" from setting.
The sun was allegedly "stopped".
 
Of course, as we know, if anything like this ever were to happen, it would have been caused by the earth, not the sun, having stopped moving.
 
Both Muhammad and the author of the Book of Joshua believed that "sun rise" and "sun set" are determined by the movement of the sun, and both the hadiths and certain parts of the Bible clearly reflect that.
 
Looking forward to hearing back from you, thank you for this discussion. 
 

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[at] TG1234567 maybe start another thread ... not sure if this is right place for it :) I would like to hear the answer tho.

 

[at] TG1234567 maybe start another thread ... not sure if this is right place for it :) I would like to hear the answer tho.

Hi Tunisia,

Peace be with you. If the moderators believe this to be the case, they will place the thread where it is appropriate. The thread is under a section called "Islamic Western Dialogue". This is certainly taking place, although despite the fact I live in North America, my place of birth is Poland. :)

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Salaam alaikum, Muslim4life7.

 

How can it be a matter of the unseen whether or not the sun goes to a "rising place" or "setting place"? It is easily observed by astronomers, and there are no such places it travels to, nor does it set or rise on anything.

 

 

 

Thanks for pointing out the verse in Ecclesiastes. As a Christian, I used to believe the Bible is completely and entirely free from error, however the more I have discussed it and read it the more I have realized this is not the case. There are many scientific and historical errors in the Bible, as well as contradictions. 

 

Acknowledging that the Bible has errors is not a dilemna for me of any sort, and it doesn't save Muhammad's teachings either. 

The error in Ecclesiastes is a good example, but later on I will show you another one that is actually even more relevant to the hadiths.

 

You stated that the saying that the sun rises and sets is just a metaphorical meaning, and compared it to the saying "it is raining cats and dogs".

 

Here is the problem with this defense, however:

The expression "it is raining cats and dogs" is a 20th century saying, and people know during this time that it does not rain pets.

 

On the contrary, during the medieval ages, it was widely accepted and believed that the sun orbits around the earth and the terms "sunrise" and "sunset" were understood to literally mean just that.

 

The Fall of the Geocentric Theory, and the Rise of Heliocentrism

The geocentric theory reached its pinnacle with the system devised by Ptolemy. Ptolemy's geocentric theory continued to be the system of choice as the Roman empire succeeded that of the Greeks. With the fall of the Roman empire (circa 450 AD), it was left to the Arabs to keep the Ptolemaic view of the universe alive. In 622 AD, the Prophet Mohammed launched his holy war against the infidels. Within a century, the Islamic Empire extended eastwards across northern India to the borders of China, and westwards across Asia Minor, to north Africa. With the Arabic conquest of Spain and Sicily, the empire made it into western Europe. Alexandria (Egypt), the center of classical learning, fell to the Arabs in 642. When the period of military expansion ended, Islamic scholars became enthusiastic students of classical philosophy. Many important manuscripts were translated from Greek into Arabic. In the world of medieval Islam, Aristotle and Ptolemy were the supreme authorities in matters of natural science and astronomy. They continued to make observations, and to refine the data that went into the model while streamlining/advancing some of the calculation techniques. But they did not make any modifications to the underlying philosophy.1

"In 999 AD, Gerbert of Aurillac, the most accomplished mathematician, musician, astronomer and classical scholar in Europe, ascended to the papal throne as Sylvester II, known as 'the magician Pope' to his contemporaries. His papacy, at the symbolic date 1000 AD marks the turning point of the European 'dark ages'. Contact was established with Arabic centers of learning in Spain, where Muslim, Christian and Jewish scholars congregated. During the following centuries, Hebrew and Arabic versions of ancient Greek texts were translated into Latin and began to circulate in Europe. The works of Aristotle were translated from around 1200. The translation of Ptolemy's Almagest into Latin in 1175 re-vitalised European astronomy. King Alfonso X of Castile (1122-1184) commissioned new astronomical tables calculated according to Ptolemy's theory with Arabic mathematical refinements. Completed in 1252, the Alphonsine Tables remained the best astronomical tables available in Europe for the next three centuries. The complexities of the Ptolemaic system exasperated King Alfonso however. When the intricacies of epicycles, deferents and equants were explained to him Alfonso 'the Wise' is said to have remarked that if the Almighty had consulted him on the matter, he would have recommended something a little simpler... "
1

Eventually, with the re-emergence of European learning in the 13th century,  the geocentric view of the universe would be adopted by the Catholic church. It is interesting that in the early European universities, Ptolemy's theory was relegated to the world of mathematics, calendars, and astrology. It was purely a mechanical model of the celestial motion, and not the "true" nature of the universe as described by Aristotle. The latter would be given a more revered place in higher learning, and especially in questions of philosophy and theology.

http://astronomy.nmsu.edu/tharriso/ast105/Ast105week04.html

 

As we can see, the geocentric model was during Muhammad's time something that was widely accepted.

 

 

Secondly, if I were to just say "it is raining cats and dogs", that would be one thing. If I began to describe what kind of canines and felines will be dropping from the clouds, or at what angle they will fall, it would become very clear that I was not simply using an expression.

 

In the hadith we examined, Muhammad did not merely say the sun will rise from the West. He stated that it travels to and from "a rising place" and that one day it will rise from "a setting place". What would be the point of describing the sun's movement to and from these "places" if he didn't believe they existed?

 

Lastly, to the errors in the Bible concerning the sun's alleged rising and setting.

 

Joshua 10:12-14 describes an event during which God allegedly made the sun stop moving, making it remain in the sky, until the israelites led by Joshua defeated their enemies.

 

12 On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to israel, Joshua said to the Lordin the presence of israel:

“Sun, stand still over Gibeon,

    and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”

13 So the sun stood still,

    and the moon stopped,

    till the nation avenged itself on[b] its enemies,

as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. 14 There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lordlistened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for israel!

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua+10&version=NIV

Of course, we know that the sun did not "stand still" nor was it "delayed going down", since the sun "rising" and "setting" is independent of its movement but is dependent on the movement of the earth. If the day did indeed last an extra 24 hours, this would have been caused by the earth stopping, not the sun.

 

Why is this relevant? Well, believe it or not, Muhammad repeated the same story. 

 

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "A prophet amongst the prophets carried out a holy military expedition, so he said to his followers, 'Anyone who has married a woman and wants to consummate the marriage, and has not done so yet, should not accompany me; nor should a man who has built a house but has not completed its roof; nor a man who has sheep or shecamels and is waiting for the birth of their young ones.' So, the prophet carried out the expedition and when he reached that town at the time or nearly at the time of the `Asr prayer, he said to the sun, 'O sun! You are under Allah's Order and I am under Allah's Order O Allah! Stop it (i.e. the sun) from setting.' It was stopped till Allah made him victorious. Then he collected the booty and the fire came to burn it, but it did not burn it. He said (to his men), 'Some of you have stolen something from the booty. So one man from every tribe should give me a pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with me.' (They did so and) the hand of a man got stuck over the hand of their prophet. Then that prophet said (to the man), 'The theft has been committed by your people. So all the persons of your tribe should give me the pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with me.' The hands of two or three men got stuck over the hand of their prophet and he said, "You have committed the theft.' Then they brought a head of gold like the head of a cow and put it there, and the fire came and consumed the booty. The Prophet (ﷺ) added: Then Allah saw our weakness and disability, so he made booty legal for us."

 
Although the prophet in this case was not named, he addressed the sun and he asked God to "stop it" from setting.
The sun was allegedly "stopped".
 
Of course, as we know, if anything like this ever were to happen, it would have been caused by the earth, not the sun, having stopped moving.
 
Both Muhammad and the author of the Book of Joshua believed that "sun rise" and "sun set" are determined by the movement of the sun, and both the hadiths and certain parts of the Bible clearly reflect that.
 
Looking forward to hearing back from you, thank you for this discussion. 
 

To address another point you made and that I earlier forgot to address, you described the sun's rising and setting places as a matter of the unseen, like the sun prostrating before God's Throne.

I would respond by saying that God's Throne is a matter of the Unseen. The West, where its "setting place" allegedly is, is not, and Muhammad claimed that the people will see the sun rising from that place.

Edited by TG1234567

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End is near I get it, just so I can mark my calendar when exactly is the judgement day? I mean the Mayans gave us quite a scare with the 2012 thing... Soon can mean centuries so perhaps a more defined timeframe will be useful.

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End is near I get it, just so I can mark my calendar when exactly is the judgement day? I mean the Mayans gave us quite a scare with the 2012 thing... Soon can mean centuries so perhaps a more defined timeframe will be useful.

 

there is two paths to Judgment day, long and short paths to judgment day

 

long is when the universe collapse and sun and moon, and earth, eveything is destroy, that can be in 1000 10000000, or 1 billion years , 

 

 

but there is also short path to judgment day that is you death, when death comes and soul separated from your body, you lose perception of time, you are aware of yourself in the spiritual world when your soul continue to live after you body (your vehicle in this world) has decayed, and you dont have perception how time go , so when Judgment day start your body will be recreated truough natural propceses like plant grow from a seed same will you body grow in the soil, after you body has grown then soul will get back to it and you will open your eyes on the day of judgment and wonder if you were just little under the soil, maybe 1 hour or half a day, but in fact maybe you were thousands of years under the soil in your grave. time will go fast when you die, or your perception of time change when you die, that is why Judgment day will be soon after your death and our death also.

 

You should focus on your shortcut to Judgment day wich can occur now while you read my words, that is when your judgment day begins, not the long path when it may happen in 1 miillion years or 1000 years from now  when we are not alive. do you understand me what i try to say.

Edited by andalusi
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Let's take this prophesy about musical instruments and music. Music occurs and has occurred as far as I know in every society since time began. Music is one of the most magnificent creations and the Bible is full of verses that talk about music.

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