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october

Are Muslims Sorry?

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Are muslims sorry for the atrocities, commited by 9 muslim men, who have been found guilty this week in england, of sexual abuse, torture, peodophile ring, mostly 13 -15 year old non-muslim white girls.

 

Why do muslims, in there hearts, condem non-muslims to hell, and why do muslims come to non-muslim countrys to live?

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And do muslims think they can be friends with none Muslims, and do.you feel superior, and do you realise all in any religion can be found inside, and why didn't your Allah pbuh, see fit to spread the word too ALL people, if he is the creator of us all.

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Are you sorry for the hundreds of thousands of rapes, sexual abuse, etc that non Muslims commit every day around the world? Are you sorry that there have been non Muslims who have abducted and kept innocent girls for decades in imprisonment and raped them?

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It has nothing to do with being Muslim-  most are from a British/Pakistani background, that is the only point.

 

For me, when people like you use the term Muslim- it brings in religion and this has NOTHING  to do with it.

 

There countless groups out there that do similar things, don't look at their ethnicity or so called religious affiliation- look at the CRIME and hope the perpetrators get a lengthy sentence.

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i am sorry for those as a muslim. but you sound like you accuse of all muslims for doing that. a sincere muslim would never applaud those actions, because it is totally against the beliefs of Islam... 

 

although i live in a country which has a muslim majority population, i have many non-muslim friends online, and muslims who dont practise, and we get along well.

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Are muslims sorry for the atrocities, commited by 9 muslim men, who have been found guilty this week in england, of sexual abuse, torture, peodophile ring, mostly 13 -15 year old non-muslim white girls.

 

Why do muslims, in there hearts, condem non-muslims to hell, and why do muslims come to non-muslim countrys to live?

If Ariel Castro was Catholic, does that mean all Catholic men kidnap, hold hostage, and rape women?  If he was atheist, do all atheists kidnap, hold hostage, and rape women?  Should all men in Cleveland feel personally remorseful for Castro's behavior because he was from Cleveland?  The group of men in England committed atrocities against girls because they are EVIL, not because they are Muslim.  They targeted non-Muslim girls because they saw a vulnerability there to be exploited, for the same reason that Castro targeted lone girls walking in his neighborhood.    

How do you know what muslims feel in their hearts?  The knowledge of who goes to heaven and who does not belongs to Allah alone.  My personal belief is that hell is the destination for individuals (regardless of faith) who knowingly commit evil acts and who knowingly deny the existence of God.  Muslims come to non-muslim countries to live for the same reason that any immigrant goes to a new country to live, for economic opportunity, personal liberty, and possibly personal reasons (marriage, to be close to family, etc.).  

I am a revert who grew up in the Southern US, so I would like to point out that you could take the first part of your sentence "Why do ___________, in there hearts, condemn non-_____________ to hell" and insert any of the following words in the blanks :  Baptists, Born-again Christians, Catholics, Evangelical Christians, etc.  I have heard folks from each of these groups express opinions condemning various "non-__________" to hell while living in the South.  

But you would be (as in the original sentence) generalizing and falsely assuming the private beliefs of entire groups of people!  

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Are muslims sorry for the atrocities, commited by 9 muslim men, who have been found guilty this week in england, of sexual abuse, torture, peodophile ring, mostly 13 -15 year old non-muslim white girls.

 

Why do muslims, in there hearts, condem non-muslims to hell, and why do muslims come to non-muslim countrys to live?

The religion of Islam say to commit fornication is a shameful deed and an evil path and if one dye in it he/she shall be in Hell. In this, I say it is wrong of you to use the action of a few to condemned all. cus on one shall bear the burden of another.

 

secondly God has given man (Muslim) and every other man the freedom to live any where he or she find himself in this world and if you want you can go to any Muslim country and live. The Qur'an said: "The evil plot hems in only its own people." They seek to deceive Allah by standing up to pray, but their hearts are not in it and they do it to show-off to the believers, swaying between belief and unbelief. Eventually Allah causes them to go astray by taking away the light of faith from their hearts. 

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And do muslims think they can be friends with none Muslims, and do.you feel superior, and do you realise all in any religion can be found inside, and why didn't your Allah pbuh, see fit to spread the word too ALL people, if he is the creator of us all.

Overbearing conduct towards humankind and animal is a sin in Islam as the Prophet of Islam (SAW) said: "Do not torment Allah's creatures." deal with them justly and be sincere to them, do business with them and eat their food. If I should eat your food, be sincere to you and do business with you, why border about friendship. 

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"Do not torments allahs creatures" are those creatures muslim or all man.

"Overbearing conduct towards man is a sin" how vague.

Someone said if i wanted to live in muslim countries i can! Some places in britain are muslim places already, since we opened our doors so wide in 1948, that was after defeating hitler, and stopping a evil consuming the world. Do you teach muslim children that, do you understand britain is a small island, most britons have been pushed out of london, by overbearing changes in culture, everything is now changing

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Do you find lots of white british communitys in muslim countys then, just wondering, should we come and do, wear, say, what we want?

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"Do not torments allahs creatures" are those creatures muslim or all man.

"Overbearing conduct towards man is a sin" how vague.

Someone said if i wanted to live in muslim countries i can! Some places in britain are muslim places already, since we opened our doors so wide in 1948, that was after defeating hitler, and stopping a evil consuming the world. Do you teach muslim children that, do you understand britain is a small island, most britons have been pushed out of london, by overbearing changes in culture, everything is now changing

 

The Qur'an said: "Worship Allah and join none with Him in worship, and do good to

• parents,

• kinsfolk,

• orphans,

• the poor,

• the neighbor who is near of kin,

• the neighbor who is a stranger, (could be a Muslim or non-Muslim)

• the companion by your side,

• the wayfarer (you meet), (could be a Muslim or non Muslim)

• and those (slaves) whom your right hands

possess, including animals."

[Qur'an 4:36]

 

if you overbear conduct to somebody or an animal, you are not doing good to him and London is not an Islamic state or Country.

Edited by adam27

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Sorry adam do you mean each muslim worships Allah alone, that you must not look to other muslim for your view of muslim. Yes sometimes i like the voice of Qur’an, what ive heard, but Mohammed, was just a poet, there's no proof, just here say. And did you really mean, you can eat my food, do buisness, and not bother about friendship (is this just non Muslim?)

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I wish i could edit my messages, what i meant was i think Allah was a poet and philosopher, me just saying he is that is wrong, but its my opinion. Thankyou for your words adam

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October, firstly, you speak of Britain as if it is draped in glory- do you even know of its 'bloody history' (literally).

Secondly, look at the British Empire- colonialism so to understand what went on.

Immigration has  given much to this country- no one has pushed 'Britains' out. Of course there are elements of people who break laws etc but they don't all have brown or black skin you know!

What about ex pats who choose to live in other countries- there are plenty in the UAE- no one forced them there!!

 

I also think you know VERY LITTLE about Islam in general - perhaps mixing culture in there somewhere.

Suggest you do some searching on this forum to help you understand Islam and Muslims or ask one of the admin team to guide you to some links.

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I think you last post was 'you think Muhammad was a poet/philosopher- again, that is your opinion but based on what??

So would be helpful you did some reading and proper analyzing before making such conclusions- after all, you don't want to appear ignorant do you...

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I wish i could edit my messages, what i meant was i think Allah was a poet and philosopher, me just saying he is that is wrong, but its my opinion. Thankyou for your words adam

exactly ..you think.

 

But can you base your thought in a logical argument because us Muslims can debate in a real intellectual argument. But we certainly don't like to debate with people who are obviously not willing to be open to what we have to say and have just come here under pretense of getting to know Islam while really insulting it in a indirect way. 

 

If you joined the forum to learn about Islam then do that with effort.

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Sorry adam do you mean each muslim worships Allah alone, that you must not look to other muslim for your view of muslim. Yes sometimes i like the voice of Qur’an, what ive heard, but Mohammed, was just a poet, there's no proof, just here say. And did you really mean, you can eat my food, do buisness, and not bother about friendship (is this just non Muslim?)

A Muslim is a brother to one another no matter which country he or she belongs as far as we are  Muslim and is guided by the Holy Qur'an. The fact is that some people go astray and do things that are forbidden. As a Muslim, you can distance yourself from a brother who is among the Hippocrates yet you can eat his food and do business with him while he is not your friend though he is still a Muslim. 

 

 

Rosentiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Science at the University of Maine, Miami, Florida, USA. After a discussion with Professor Hay about the Qur’an’s mention of recently discovered facts on seas, he said: “I find it very interesting that this sort of information is in the ancient scriptures of the Holy Qur’an, and I have no way of knowing where they would come from, but I think it is extremely interesting that they are there and that this work is going on to discover it the meaning of some of the passages.”

 

And when he was asked about the source of the Qur’an, he replied: “Well, I would think it must be the divine being.”

 

A lot of testimonies and facts on scientific discoveries that already exist in the Holy Qur’an are numerous. So to say the Qur’an or Muhammad (SAW) is a poet or philosopher is baseless. you said "its just a here say" I will advice that you clean your conscience in matters that puzzled your mind of Islam and don't just blindly say things. As brother ParadiseLost said, lets be logical in our discussions, please. 

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Hooray for logical discussions!

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The Qur’an, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago, mentioned facts only recently discovered or proven by scientists. This proves without doubt that the Qur’an must be the literal word of God, revealed by Him to the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and that the Qur’an was not authored by Muhammad (SAW) or by any human being. This also proves that Muhammad (SAW) is truly a Prophet sent by God. It is beyond reason that anyone fourteen hundred years ago would have known these facts discovered or proven only recently with advanced equipment and sophisticated scientific methods. 

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I am a Muslim, Islam is perfect but I am not. If I make a mistake, blame it on me, and not my religion

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Well thank you for your replys, i wouldve replied much sooner had i not been banned, and banned again and banned again. Im barely sure what to say now, for fear of being blamed, just before my first ban, i took some points on, and my next message was going to be of a much different nature, but i was excluded, called a racist, without a chance to defend myself.

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you should admit that since you've been here, you always speak as you accuse of muslims for some reasons. this is not kind, right?

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Define logical icehorse?

that which can never stand reasoning or the independent scrutiny by the dispassionate and im‐partial arguments is not logical 

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Hi October,

 

I think adam27 made a good start of defining "logical". 

 

I would propose that for the purposes of a religious forum like this you could start out by agreeing (at the least), that there are at least two categories of discussion:

 

- faith based

- evidence based

 

While I mostly live my life in the world of evidence, I do believe some ideas that I cannot prove, I would call that belief "faith". My opinion is that it's fruitless to attempt to have logical debate about matters of faith. My opinion is that matters of faith are, by definition, unfalsifiable. There's no point having a debate if any of the premises of the debate are unfalsifiable. 

 

For example, we could start a discussion by agreeing - for the sake of the discussion - that Jesus was born of a virgin mother, and that he came back from the dead. We could assume those statements are true. That doesn't in any way prove that Jesus was the son of God. Saying the Jesus was the son of God is unprovable, it's unfalsifiable, it's a matter of faith. It doesn't mean it's not true, it just means that it's a claim that exists outside the domain of logic.

 

So in religious discussions it's important to be very vigilant, and guard against unfalsifiable claims entering into the debate.

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