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Updated Forum Rule For Non-Muslims

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Dear members

Our forum rules have been updated today. Rule #16 now says:

  • Preach another faith or refer to its books in posts/PMs > 3 points

So, from now on, non-Muslim members are no longer allowed to quote or refer to any of their books or their concepts in their posts and PMs. That means, if anyone says something like "Jesus is the son of god", "Jesus was crucified" and such lies, they will be issued a warning. We don't have to waste anyone's time in getting involved in their discussions related to non-holy, man-made, fake religious books.

We welcome all non-Muslims in this forum, not to preach their own faith or books, but to give them the chance to understand the truth and leave aside their fake man-made books.

Thank you for your understanding.

Edit:
Non-Muslims can still reply and defend what is brought in discussions by Muslims regarding their faith or books, and they can reply, defend and justify any quotes from their books posted by Muslims, but they are not allowed to type any quotes by themselves, or refer to any concept from their religion other than those posted by Muslims.

Non-Muslims are also free to initiate quote and refer to their books in cases where they're asking for the truth about those quotes and references, in the sake of knowing why they're false.

The purpose of the rule update is to prevent those who join the forum to preach their faith, or waste time, insisting on their false concepts, with zero intention to benefit from being in an Islamic forum that was built for them to learn the truth about Islam.

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Posted Today, 08:27 PM

Redeemed, on 13 Aug 2013 - 20:52, said:snapback.png

 

Its the other way round. We humans are bound by what our Creator says about Himself. We are bound by what He says about everything.

 

This topic is now closed. Our forum rules have been updated to prevent such useless games. They now include the following:

Quote

 

So, from now on, non-Muslim members are no longer allowed to quote or refer to any of their books in their posts and PMs.

 

Maybe this is none of my business but this post by Dot does seem to be extraordinary!

 

So there is to be no further Islamic/Christian discussions on this forum? Nor any other meaningful interaction with other faiths? If they can't quote their Holy books then what hope is there of any understanding between us?

Surely this is a retrograde step?

 

Salaam,

 

Wahid

 

Of course its your business brother. No problem.

 

This rule doesn't impose any restrictions on Muslims from refuting non-Muslims. It only prevents non Muslims from referring to fake books that we do not believe to be genuine words of our Creator. Muslims can refer to any books and anything as tools to refute non-Muslims, but not the other way round. This is an Islamic forum, totally biased towards Islam. Many non-Muslims quote lies as if they are facts, and build their discussions on that. This proved to be a complete waste of everyone's time.

 

Our duty as Muslims is to inform them of the truth, not to allow them to repeat lies from fake books. The new rule would insha'Allah allow them more time to understand Islam better, while it would definitely be a self-expeller for Preachers and anti-Islam stone-hearted individuals.

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I'm just going to say... I think it would be best if the rule was altered to allow for a debate room that people like Redeemed could debate as he loved to do, but forbid the so-called "games" from entering the other forums. If there is no challenge to the deen, it is harder to learn. I know I personally learn the most when someone asks me a question I cannot answer easily or at all.

 

This is just my two cents.

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in getting involved in their discussions related to non-holy, man-made, fake religious books.

As much as I would like to say the same about the Quran my religion forbids me to act in an uncharitable way. So my response is although I find your comment extremely offensive - God bless you. I will leave you with a quote from your favourite apostle St Paul:

 

“Bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse them.” – Romans 12:14

 

Don’t worry you don’t have to issue me a warning or kick me out for quoting from the bible, this is my last post in this forum. Good bye.

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I am really disappointed in such an announcement dot. I think the second part of the ruling is really unjust and doesn't do the forum any benefits. There are some Muslims who enjoy debating with Christians too on this forum. I have been following that thread which andalusi has been involved in for ages now and he is doing such a good job on his own there. I am also disappointed that only Amna and I have spoken out against this like what are the other Muslims on the forum thinking?

 

There are obviously some Christians who come here and don't have the intention to learn about Islam. But there are some Christians who do not behave like that and they do want to learn about Islam but it is difficult for them to learn without referring to the religion they have been brought up in. This rule shows no understanding for people like them. I have read so many and heard so many revert stories and there are many who come to Islam through debating because they saw how wrong their belief was and how true Islam was. Not everyone comes to Islam the same way dot. You can't just say read an intro book about Islam and expect that everyone will come to Islam. Some people need that debate in order to be guided. Everyones journey is different. 

 

I think you should consider the rule just to be about preaching. That would be justified and it is clear when someone is using their religion to preach. But just a mere civil debate shouldn't be banned just because you are tired. That is not the message of Islam and I think by doing so you will make this forum hostile to non Muslims and they will have a harder time understanding what Islam is. I know you make the rules of the forum but you complained in another thread about how you are tired of those people and but people gave you suggestions about how we could make an improvement. 

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Salam alaykum,

 

This new rule seems wierd to me too. You cannot teach a word to a Christian about Islam if you don't "listen" to what he believes in. So there is no point of having this rule on such an Islamic forum. This is not a busy and crowded forum like old days anyway, and when you put this rule, no-one will come. I think you should re-think about it. Also i would prefer you decided that after making a poll on forum and listening what other members think.

 

For me, the only religion of Allah is one, and it is Islam. The others are corrupted i believe (like the other muslims). But this does not stop me to listen what arguments and beliefs non-muslims have. I just respect their "thinking", not the faith itself. We have a duty to say the truth always in a kind and respectful way, because Rasulallah did this too. And when they don't become muslims, it is not because they are idiot people, but the hidayat (the true path) hasn't reached them yet. And it is all up to Allah, He gives hidayat whomever He wants. After debates, we as muslims are free to read the Surah Tabbat to them and finish the debates.

 

But of course when someone who has a bad intention comes here, he should be banned.

 

Mina.

Edited by muzur
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^^ I agree with you folks. It seems it would make non Muslims feel very unwelcome.

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I agree with the posts we need them to feel that we need to allow other people to feel that they can debate, otherwise they will not engage us and this is a form of dawah that will be lost on the forum. Scholars from the past debated people from all religions so it is acceptable.

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:sl:

 

I guess perhaps I did not explain the rule update clear enough. I've edited the first post to explain it better.

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Thank you for clarifying, but I still think a problem persists. What of there is another quote somewhere on the Bible/Torah that could make a good point? Often in our debates and discussions, we will use multiple verses from different places in the Quran as well as mixing in some Hadith. The way your rule is written doesn't allow these Christian brothers this same freedom to draw from various sections and sources. I don't believe Redeemed has ever tried prostletyzing. He puts up valid discussion points. I cannot speak for Gods Servant as I have not seen many posts by this member yet. I don't think that this should be an across-the-board rule.

 

 

An idea would be to prolong a probationary period for non-Muslims who are here to discuss their own religion, but not to cut off their tongue in a debate. This would allow more well-known people, like Redeemed, to continue posting in a non-offensive manner, contained within certain permissible threads.

 

"In the sake of knowing they are false". Isn't that the point of bringing anything into a discussion? To try and see if the other person can reason it away or bring proof to counter it? This rule still seems harsh to me, as if you want to rid this site of Christians. I can speak for myself - I came here as a Christian with inquiries. Some people may take longer to win over, some you might never win. That is not the full effect of this website. You should embrace diversity, as many of us learn in that manner (as some above have agreed).

Edited by Amna4
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I agree again, there should be freedom to debate and to use any sources that one may wish to use. As sister Amna said we may lose a lot of people who come here see the rule and leave unhappy they can express their views openly. The Idea of forums like these are to invite people in, we do not want to lose that.

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OK fine, I'll remove the rule update.

I thank everyone who helped me here in reaching a wise decision.

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Assalamo alaikum

 

I've re-opened this topic, as I have come up with a solution, based on your valuable ideas and suggestions above.

First let me share with you my worries, before reaching the solution.

 

As admin of this forum, 2 points worry me, and each pulls me towards a different direction:

 

1- I want to keep new Muslims and those potential members who are thinking or probably reverting to Islam, and vulnerable Muslims from preachers and their lies about Islam. We've had cases before of new reverts when preachers jumped on their topics, tried to convince them out of Islam. Some of those reverts stopped posting or showing up in the forum ever since..

 

2- But if I ban a preacher, even if there is a 1 in a million hope of them seeing the truth, I could be shutting the door on them, depriving them from a possible reversion, and by doing so we fail our duties as Muslims to call all people to Islam.

 

So, the solution that I came up with, based on your suggestions, is to:

  • Create a new "Preachers" group. When a non-Muslim joins the forum, everything goes normal. When their posts show no sign of interest in learning about Islam, and instead show a persistence to talk about their own faith, then we move them to the "preachers group".
  • "Preachers" group members have the privilege of talking all they want about their own faith, but only in "Refuting no-Muslims" section.
  • In effect, rule #16 will not apply on that group when posting in  "Refuting no-Muslims" section.
  • Members of that group cannot mention anything related to their own faith system outside of their designated section
  • Members of that group can post in all forum sections, except 3: I've Just Reverted (Converted) to Islam, why did they revert, new Muslims Q&A
  • Forum member's help would be appreciated. Please use our report system to report non-Muslims whom you think should be moved to the "Preachers" group, or PM me.
  • Perhaps we need a set of rules specific to the "Refuting non-Muslims" section. I need your help to put those rules together.
  • Whenever a "Preachers" group member finds that he/she no longer need rule #16 disabled for him/her in the debate section, and that they want to post in the 3 sections mentioned above, they can just PM me anytime with that request, and I'll happily move him/her back to the members group.

If you think we should edit that new policy in anyway, please post your views here. We're always open for your ideas and suggestions, Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

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:sl:

 

I like the idea of this new rule - having a different/particular section for the preachy stuffs of other religions. But I am not so sure about creating a 'preachers' group. May be we can apply this rule for all the non-Muslims.

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:wa:

Technically, we cannot apply any specific forum permissions, unless we create a group to apply those permissions on.

And why move all non-Muslims to the preachers group, when only a few of them preach or persist on quoting and referring to their own faith systems?

Keep in mind, that this would be a manual move. It can be done for a few now and then, but its impractical to move thousands of members.

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I love this new idea. Perhaps we could use the term "non-seeker" or something like that instead of "preacher"? I know we have had atheists come through here before, and they would be able to be put in a "non-seeker" section, but not a "preacher" section.

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That's a better name sister. I didn't know that the word "preacher" is so touchy to some.

 

And thanks for the encouragement.

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That's a better name sister. I didn't know that the word "preacher" is so touchy to some.

 

And thanks for the encouragement.

It's just a term that is typically related to evangelical pastors, but not all Christians (definitely not atheists!). I really do appreciate you accepting input from members while making decisions.

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I always respect members' views in general, and reverts in particular :)

Now let's wait for Redeemed. I have invited him here to listen to what he has to say, and whether he has any suggestions to offer.

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Congratulations on finally landing in the correct topic.

I have no clue what you're talking about. I've been contacting you all day to let you know.

You don't seem to have noticed the note under the forum rules, regarding rule #16. When you do, all your problems would be solved.

 

OK, I tell you what.. never mind going to the rules page. I'll copy it here for you:

 

=============================================================

 

16. Preach another faith or persistently refer to its books in posts/PMs > 3 points (*)

17.

18.

19.

20.

21.

 

(*) Rule #16 is disabled in "Refuting non-Muslims" section.

 

=============================================================

 
Are we good now?
Do you have any suggestions regarding the new policy?
(btw, I've re-opened all your closed topics, according to the new policy, and removed all your warning points, in case you didn't notice)

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What the sister meant is: non-seeker of a path/faith system other than the one you currently believe in.

Are you sure that all Christians would be fine if they were called preachers here? because from my recent understanding, they take offence from that name.

 

And by the way, are you posting from a mobile device? because your recent posts and quotes appear with weird characters added to them in different places. No one is typing those characters.

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^ what Dot said. Non-seeker as in not a path seeker.

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But don't you think that there is always hope for everyone?

Things are not so clear cut in the real world ..

 

Salaam,

 

Wahid

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But don't you think that there is always hope for everyone?

 

 Yes, and that's why we dedicated the "refuting non-Muslims" section for all their debates. I don't see your point here.

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