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Guest FireyWitness

Is Referring To Christians As Non-Seeker Condescending?

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Guest FireyWitness

I know that Muslims are taught that Christians can live among them where sharia rules, but they will be taxed until they feel themselves subdued. Is referring to a believer of Jesus Christ as our Savior a non seeker a form of or an attempted at subduing them?

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No, it's merely identifying that you have your chosen path and are not "seeking" to change your path/religion.

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In that sense, yes of course. All Muslims don't seek any path other than the truth they found in Islam, the best way of life. True Muslims will never change to worshiping humans, ever.

 

And I'd like to correct you: no one "subdue" any non-Muslim into Islam, Its impossible by definition, because reverting to Islam to be valid, the person must be convinced in heart that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is his messenger. If anyone said it out of fear, threat or suppression, then they didn't revert to Islam yet.

 

Btw, in your title, did you mean Condescending? if so, I can edit the title for you.

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The jizya is less than zakat :) Non-Muslims have to pay less than Muslims... So if it's about money, the non-Muslims have it better. It's the same as any person living under and receiving benefits from a governing system... Tax :)

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 I didn't say Muslims subdue non-Muslims into being Muslim

Why deny something that you already said?

 

 they will be taxed until they feel themselves subdued

 

But anyhow, its good that you have reached an understanding that Muslims did not force non-Muslims to revert to Islam.

 

 

 
He is unique; there was never any human like Jesus and never will be

 

Its true that he is unique, and its true that there will never be any human like him; actually there will never be any new messengers/prophets at all. But he was not the only unique human among Allah's creations. You know well that Adam was unique, born to no father or mother, and that Eve was unique, born to no mother. Prophet Moses was unique, as he was the only human able to speak and listen to our Creator. Why don't you worship them all? If you allow yourself to worship a human because he was unique, you're missing a lot of gods then. However, if you decide at any point in time to think for real, you'd soon realize that the one worthy of worship is the maker of all those unique humans. Even a child can guess this basic simple conclusion.

 

Btw, its good that you mentioned that Jesus is a human. That's an advancement. Now all you need is to stop worshiping humans, and turn to their maker to worship. Its as simple as that.

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 I didn't say subdued into becoming a Muslim.

 

Fine, I accept that. But you didn't enlighten us yet. What did you mean by "until they feel subdued? subdued into becoming what?

 

Are you saying that prophet Moses was not unique and above all messengers and prophets in his ability to speak and listen to God Himself? Are you saying the Adam was not unique and above all humans in being created from no father nor mother?

 

Prophet Jesus was unique in being born to a mother without a father, in speaking while still a new born baby, and in being raised to God, alive, and coming back to earth before judgement day, when he defeats the dajjal and yagog and magog, then dies like all of us. But your man-made books denies Jesus some of those unique abilities, and slander him by saying he's divine and a god family member. Hilarious!

 

If you really really love Jesus, why are you still a Christian?

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So you mean verse 9:29, this part:

 حَتَّىٰ يُعْطُوا۟ٱلْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍۢ وَهُمْ صَـٰغِرُونَ 

 

It means:

until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

 

We Muslims can say your books are man made and was falsified because they were. You cannot say the same of the Quran, unless you're embarrassed and resort to lying. You know better Redeem. You know that there are so many contradictions in your man-made books.

 

But regarding the Quran, don't just take our word for it. There are numerous studies made by non-Muslim historians, researchers and scientists who concluded that the Quran cannot have been written by a human, not to mention an illiterate man. The words of the Quran defeated the best of poets of Arabia at the time, and they were known for excelling in poetry. God wanted to show them a proof, so He defeated them in their own game. (God always do that. For example, when the people were fond of magic, he sent Moses with the ability to do astonishing magic that ate all the magicians' snakes, with a simple thread. It happened with all messengers, so that God proves to the people that it was God's words. Surely you know those facts)

The kuffar couldn't hide their astonishment in the degree of beauty in the way the Quran was written. Even their best poets confessed to that. An illiterate man could never write that masterpiece on his own. And that's only one of many proofs that the Quran is the words of your God Al-Mighty. It is the same message Redeem. It was called Judaism, then when humans corrupted it, it was re-sent under the name Christianity. And when humans corrupted it it was re-sent again under the name of Islam. One message, one author, its been like that all the time. Your pride seems to prevent you, so you refuse to drop the false copy, although the final copy, protected this time against falsification by your Creator Himself, is in front of your eyes.

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No, it's merely identifying that you have your chosen path and are not "seeking" to change your path/religion.

 

 

But doesn't this apply to anyone who has found their "true" religion no matter what that religion is, be it Christianity, Buddhism, Atheism, Islam, or whatever.

 

They have their religion and don't feel the need to change anything  because they believe that they have found the truth, 

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Exactly Occam. The used name applies to all non-Muslims who show no sign of  interest in learning about Islam, whatever religion they belong to.

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I admit the poetry in the Quran, but there are many books that are poetically written; that doesn't make it God's word. 

 

Were those books you mention written by an illiterate? come on Redeemed! please try to come up with related examples, if you can.

 

The Arabic of the Quran is superior to all Arabic literature, not only then, but even to date. No one has ever managed to come even close to the beauty of the language of the Quran. The Quran even has its own grammatical rules. The descriptions, the picturing of stories, the use of verbal senses, everything is pure beauty, beyond any comparison. If you ever happened to learn the Arabic language, you'd know what I mean.

The pagans of Arabia, the kuffar, themselves highly acclaimed poets, admitted when they listened to the Quran that it cannot be written by a human. This is all documented and proofed by Historians and biographers.

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No, they weren't written by an illiterate; so, tell me dot how could Muhammad have written it if he was illiterate?

 

He did not write it. He did not author it. It was recited to him by angel Gabriel.

 

 

Is the truth that the Quran wasn't written in Muhammad's life time but years after his death? Doesn't Quran mean recitation. So how does one get write out of say?

 

You mean you wanted God to deliver his words through angel Gabriel in printed form? do you believe what you just said?

And even if it was in writing, how could the prophet read it then? send for friends to read it for him? Muhammad was a prophet, not a postman Redeemed.

 

No. Its verses first were recited for the prophet to memorize, then the prophet recited them to the companions to memorize, and they were written down on sheets by the prophet's companions, all during his life, throughout a period of 23 years. The whole Quran was kept both in memory and in writing during the prophet's life.

 

Here is more info in a study regarding The collection of the Quran:

 

A study of the compilation of text must begin with the character of the book itself as it was handed down by Muhammad icon--1.gif to his Companions during his lifetime. It was not delivered or revealed all at once.
The Noble Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad icon--1.gif piecemeal over a period of twenty-three years from the time when he icon--1.gif began to preach the Message of Islam in Makkah in 610 CE until his death at Madeenah in 632 CE. The Quran itself declares that Allaah addressed Prophet Muhammad icon--1.gifwith what means: "…And We have spaced it distinctly." [Quran 25:32]
Furthermore, no chronological record of the sequence of passages was kept by Muhammad icon--1.gif himself or his Companions so that, as each of these began to be collected into an actual Soorah (chapter), no thought was given as to theme, order of deliverance or chronological sequence. It is acknowledged by all Muslim writers that most of the chapters, especially the longer ones, are composite texts containing various passages not necessarily linked to each other in the sequence in which they were given. As time went on Muhammad icon--1.gif would say words to the effect of: "Put this passage in the chapter in which so-and-so is mentioned", or: "Put it in such and such a place." [As-Suyooti, Al-Itqaan fee 'Uloom Al-Quran, p.141] Thus, passages were added to compilations of other passages already collected together until each of these became a distinct chapter. The evidence that a number of these chapters already had their recognised titles during the lifetime of Muhammad icon--1.gif. is the following two Prophetic narrations: "Anyone who recites the last two verses of Soorah Al-Baqarah (The Cow, chapter 2) at night, they will suffice him." [Al-Bukhaari] And: "If anyone learns by heart the first ten verses of the Soorah Al-Kahf (the Cave, No. 18), he will be protected from the Dajjaal (Antichrist)." [Muslim]
At the same time, there is also reason to believe that there were other chapters to which titles were not necessarily given by Prophet Muhammad . An example of this is Soorah Al-Ikhlaas [Chapter 112], for although the Prophet  spoke at some length about it and said it was equal to one-third of the whole Quran, he did not mention it by name. [Muslim]
As the Quran developed, the Prophet's Companions  took portions of it down in writing and also committed its passages to memory. It appears that the memorisation of the text was the foremost method of recording its contents as the very word Quran means 'recitation'. From the very first word delivered to Muhammad  by the angel Jibreel (Gabriel) on Mount Hiraa', namely Iqra' – 'Recite!' [Chapter 96:1], we can see that the verbal recitation of its passages was very highly esteemed and consistently practiced. Nevertheless, it is to actual written records of its text that the Quran itself bears witness in the following verse (which means): "[it is recorded] in honoured sheets. Exalted and purified. [Carried] by the hands of messenger-angels. Noble and dutiful."[Quran: 80:13-16]
Furthermore, there is evidence that even during the early days of Prophet Muhammad  in Makkah, portions of the Quran as then delivered were being written down. When 'Umar  was still a pagan, he one day struck his sister when he heard her reading a portion of the Quran. Upon seeing blood on her cheek, however, he relented and said: "Give me this sheet which I heard you reading just now so that I may see what Muhammad has brought." [ibn Is-Haaq, Seerat Rasoolullaah, p.156]. On reading the portion of the twentieth chapter (of the Quran) which she had been reading, he became a Muslim.
Nonetheless, it appears that right up to the end of the life of Muhammad the practice of memorisation predominated over the writing down of the Quran and was regarded as more important.
In the Hadeeth (narrations) records, we read that the angel Jibreel is said to have checked the recitation of the Quran every Ramadan with Prophet Muhammad  and, in his (the Prophet ) final year, he (Jibreel) checked it with him twice. Faatimah  said: "The Prophet, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, told me, 'Jibreel used to recite the Quran to me and I to him once a year, but this year he recited the whole Quran with me twice. I think that my death is approaching.'" [Al-Bukhaari]
Some of the closest Companions of the Prophet  devoted themselves to learning the text of the Quran by heart. These included Ubayy Ibn Ka'b, Mu'aath Ibn Jabal, Zayd Ibn Thaabit, Abu Zayd and Abu Ad-Dardaa' . Abdullaah Ibn Mas'ood  collected more than ninety of the one hundred and fourteen chapters by himself, learning the remaining chapters from other Companions.
Regarding the written materials, there are no records as to exactly how much of the Quran was written down during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad . There is no evidence to suggest that anyone actually compiled the whole text of the Quran into a single manuscript, whether directly under the authority of Prophet Muhammad  or otherwise.
With the death of Prophet Muhammad  in 632 CE, the revelation stopped, as the Quran had become complete. There could be no further revelation once its chosen recipient had passed away. While he lived, however, there was always the possibility that new passages could be added and it hardly seemed appropriate, therefore, to contemplate codifying the text into one harmonious whole. Thus, it is not surprising to find that the book was widely scattered in the memories of men and in writing on various different materials at the time of the death of the Prophet icon--1.gif.
There were only a few disputes among the Companions about the text of the Quran while the Prophet  was alive, unlike those which arose soon after his death. All these factors explain the absence of an official codified text at the time of his death. Imaam As-Suyooti icon--6.gif stated that the Quran, as sent down from Allaah in separate stages, had been completely written down and carefully preserved, but that it had not been assembled into one single location during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad, sallallaahu alayhi  wa sallam, [ibn Is-haaq, Seerat Rasoolullaah, p.96]
All of it was said to have been available in principle, for the Companions had absorbed it in their memories and it had been written down on separate materials. The final order of the various verses and chapters is also presumed to have been defined by the Prophet  while he was still alive.

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Exactly Occam. The used name applies to all non-Muslims who show no sign of  interest in learning about Islam, whatever religion they belong to.

Actually I included Islam in the list, because you share their belief that your way is the right one and the only one.  

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Just because one doesn't agree with Islam, that doesn't mean he is not interested in learning about it.

You're right. There is one scholar, I can't remember his name right now, who intensely studied Islam for over 40 years. He studied in Syria and other places at Islamic universities, he studied at public institutions, did research and wrote books. In the end? He remained Christian.

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