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The Writers Of Luke, John And Matthew About The Cross

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Luke 18:31,32 - Jesus took the twelve aside and told them, 'We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. He will be handed over to the Gentiles, they will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him, and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.'

 

John 12:30-32 - This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself". He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

 

JESUS WILLINGLY WENT TO THE CROSS

Matthew 26:53 - "Do you not think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more that twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

 

Matthew 26:39 - "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

 

John 10:18 - "No man takes it (his life) from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father".

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John 12:30-32 - This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself". He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

 

who said the underlined phrase?!! since it seems like an explainatory  phrase 

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Someone inspired by God and quite possibly a contemporary at the time of Jesus' death on the cross!

 

 then who wrote the the phrase before it?!!

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If Muslims have no evidence six centuries later to counter the evidence from the first century that Jesus went to and died on the cross, why should a person believe in Islam?

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That is what I have been saying. Muslims have to say this is a corruption to validate the Quran, but I trust the Scriptures that came before more than prophets that bring a conflicting message like Muhammad and Joseph Smith

I noticed there are no Muslim responses to this to address this central issue which is being coy. A person who needs to be coy is being dishonest with himself in his attitude, doctrine and conduct. It indicates to me they have an agenda that they want to stick to come hell or high water contrary to the evidence that shows they are in the wrong.

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unfortunately, that seems to be the case with most of my posts and threads.

Free choice.

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That is true. We are free to choose, but not free from the consequences of our choices!

You can freely choose to receive what Jesus did for you, unlike what Augustine taught that you had to be irresistibly made to. The consequence being he eternally separated from God so careful whom you give high accolades to as the consequence will be the same for you.

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I don't know Augustine's teaching, but the Bible disagrees with you. I can tell you from Scripture that we cannot just choose to come to Christ unless the father draws us. Do you need the reference for this Scripture?

You are 100% per wrong just as Augustine was. God draws everyone (your god sucks because he can't do this), that is why none of us are without excuse, but sadly many such as yourself "draw back unto perdition" (Heb. 10.39). How evil your god is to judge people for not accepting him when they are made unable to and not given sufficient grace to have the free choice. What love is that? Perhaps if you give a verse that you are misinterpreting, I can help you with the truth of your mistaken assumption how you are misreading it.

 

I'm here to help false Christians such as yourself give their lives to Christ like the ex-Calvinist in this video after 27 years finally gave his life to Christ,

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John 6: 43 Jesus answered and said to them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. 44"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45"It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.… I am not Calvinist or adherent to Augustine. Have you read Matthew 7 lately? Many are called but few are chosen because few choose to be chosen. One must be taught of the father to come to Christ. Until then they are prisoners to sin and death only Christ can set us free friend. All will be taught of the Father in God's timing not yours! But everyone will be able to choose, because God is just.

Of course you are a Calvinist because you are misusing this passage as Calvinists do. God draws everyone. It doesn't say everyone drawn is saved.

 

You have also misused the passage on being called and chosen. All the called are saved as God foreknew their free choice to be so called, but out of the saved only a few are chosen to return and reign with Christ on earth for 1000 years as kings and priests (see Jude 14,15; Rev. 20.4-6).

 

God the Father provides sufficient grace to us all to have the free choice so when He pleads with you and implores you to believe in Him you are without excuse. How sinful your view to think to be taught of the Father means to be irresistibly selected. The Father never forces Himself on anyone. This is the God you should give your life to and stop worshiping the god of Calvinism. My prayers go out to you.

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I didn't say or mean that everyone drawn is saved. I focus and study the Bible and not what Calvinist believe

Revelation is speaking of those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years

I agree with this.

Thanks for the prayers I don't turn them down. Please note, I never said that being taught of the father means to be irresistibly selected. You are putting words in my mouth and judging me based on your misconceptions of what I believe. Who made you the judge of Christians. You are not the Holy Spirit. You cannot convict people of sin. Please read Matthew chapter 7 bro and apply it to yourself and arsenal of Scripture.

you are loved

When you said "we cannot just choose to come to Christ unless the father draws us" is a famous Calvinist line claiming we must be irresistibly made to believe is their interpretation of the word "drawn". When a Calvinist says "choose" it is not in  the free will sense. But of course to be drawn is to be given sufficient grace to have the free choice. God draws everyone. The issue is not whether God draws which you made an issue of for He would be unloving if He didn't draw everyone.

 

Revelation is not speaking just of those who refuse the mark of the beast and are saved. It is also talking about overcomers who keep the word of His patience (Rev. 3.10). All believers overcome, but not at the same time. Martyrs are overcomers and so are those who heed the warnings to the 7 churches. It is estimated because only 1 of the 7 churches was an overcomer church, only 1 out of every 7 saved souls will return to earth to reign with Christ for 1000 years. If you forsake the many conditional statements to overcometh and just assume you are one of those in Rev. 20.4-6 then you automatically exclude yourself and will be put into outer darkness for 1000 years, outside the light of reward of reigning with Christ for 1000 years.

 

Augustine taught irresistible selection of Calvinism whom you reference often and that the 1000 years is now. He was greatly deceived but you stand side by side with him in your comments. Don't blame me for interpreting correctly what the Bible already says. I am not guilty of this same sin you harbor because I don't believe in your Calvinistic view of irresistible selection of Augustine claiming drawn means something other than grace given to us all to be without excuse. Therefore, I am protected by Matthew 7 and you are guilty under it.

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You said your "god draws it means to drag". This is not God of the Bible that you worship.

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I am beginning to understand what the problem is here. It is a communication problem. I didn't say I believe it means to drag someone to Jesus. I said a Christian told me that's what it means. I simply said the jury is out on this one for me. I haven't researched it. We are probably a lot more in agreement than you realize, if you could just stop with the judgmental spirit bro.

You  said you were considering your god dragging, but if you don't know God does not do that then you don't worship God. I know that you quote Augustine because he is a Calvinist as you are one. Unless you can be a testimony for the Lord that He does not drag, but provides sufficient grace to all to have the free choice, realize you are not my brother in Christ.

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Not only is there a communication problem your reading comprehension is in question. Where did I say I was considering God drags people. I said I haven't researched it yet. If you are judging me by Augustine's quote of mine, that is known as being prejudice.

 

I honestly don't know what "draws him" means, moreover, I am not concerned with what I don't understand in Scripture; I am concerned about what I do understand. I do believe we have free choice and that God knows who will choose Him or not! Don't be stumbled by my quotes. Do you disagree with my signature or are you judging me because I called a Catholic and Muslims my brothers?

There is no communication problem just your dishonesty and belligerence after I quoted you several times saying "god draws it means to drag" and now you ask me to quote you again? I am judging you by your own words which are obviously wrong. Since you admit you are not sure if you accept the God who draws everyone then obviously you are not born-again. You've not made a genuine choice for Christ yet. First you say you believe your god draws to drag and now you say you are not sure? You're confused. Suffice it to say if you don't know Jesus does not drag then you have not received Him yet. You also said "Catholic and Muslims my brothers". Since Catholics are not saved and Muslims are not saved that is an additional reason you are not born-again. You're not a Christian. You never were one.

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 lol, Muslims are my brothers of humanity. Is it me being dishonest or you. I didn't say draws means drag; I said a Christian told me that, but I haven't researched it. I have never met a Christian who jumps to such conclusions and so harsh and judgmental to say the least. I believe you are saved, but you will see some burned works for sure.

Brothers in the Bible are Christians not humanity in general. Again, you are possessed by confusion. You did say draw means drag. You're a liar now denying it. You clearly said "when God draws it means to drag...the jury is still out in my mind" here http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741182-matthew-1621-says-jesus-says-he-would-be-killed/?p=1279688

 

Your works are not even in Christ let alone to be burned. You're dishonest hoping people will not verify what you said to hold you accountability. While I am just speaking the truth you accuse the person who exposes you, and you are being judgmental and harsh towards the Christian who is helping you. For sure, you are not a child of God because you admit you are not sure what God you have accepted one who drags to be irresistibly selected or provides sufficient grace to all to have the choice.

 

As I said before as the Bible says, unless you are willing to confess who Jesus is truly is to others He will deny you before the Father in heaven as He has done. I pray one day you give your life to Christ, and when you do only then will you be saved. First repentance and faith in this Jesus then comes regeneration. God will not drag you into it. Let Muslims know which Jesus is the true Jesus.

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I do agree with this. Only I wouldn't say "in this Jesus" I would just say "in Jesus" With this I say good night may the Lord bless you.

To agree with the importance of the true Jesus is not enough, for you still worship a false Christ. Good intentions pave the way to Hell. You have not repented of claiming "God draws it means to drag." No loving God would ever do that. How shameful you follow the god of Calvinism with Augustine, Spurgeon, Piper, Sproul and Luther.

 

"This Jesus" of yours is not Jesus of the Bible, obviously.

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I don't agree with all of Calvinism but I do with some.

All 5 points of Calvinism are false, and all 5 points of OSAS Arminian are true so you are believing in a lie. All 5 points of Calvinism directly contradict with all 5 points of OSAS Arminian. Again you show you worship a false Christ because you claim "God draws it means to drag" as you admit you "agree with [some] of Calvinism." Still to this day you have never given your life to Christ. Statistically speaking you probably never will.

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I'll start a thread on Calvinism and OSAS Arminian and perhaps it would help if you tell me what they are and the differences

You've said you believe in some of the points of Calvinism. You should start there with your mistaken assumptions such as "God draws it means to drag" as you admit you "agree with [some] of Calvinism." This shows clearly you worship a false Christ.

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See you on the other thread

Don't know where that is.

 

Remember, you are not a Christian because you don't want to repent of having said "religion is death" and "religion is not a good thing"; but the Bible says "pure religion is undefiled before God." And nowhere in Scripture can you find God drags people to salvation when you said "God draws it means to drag" as you admit you "agree with [some] of Calvinism." No Christian would teach these heresies so you are not a Christian.

 

These 3 statements by you show that you are not a Christian, worshiping a false Christ in your dogma:

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741182-matthew-1621-says-jesus-says-he-would-be-killed/?p=1279688 (you said religion is not a good thing)

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741183-the-writers-of-luke-john-and-matthew-about-the-cross/?p=1279755 (you said you agree with some or all of the 5 points of Calvinism)

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741182-matthew-1621-says-jesus-says-he-would-be-killed/page-4?do=findComment&comment=1279802 (you said you are not sure if you believe in the God who keeps people once saved always saved)

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I recant then, because I don't care how God gets me to Christ just as long as He does. He is my only hope to keep from hell.

Well that's a wrong attitude because he is not Christ if he drags you into it. So you still have not repented of your Calvinism. If you were already saved you wouldn't need hope to keep from hell, but would know that your salvation is assured and it would be impossible for you to go to Hell. It is sad you don't know this faith.

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You finally repented of stating "religion is death" and "religion is not a good thing" for the Bible says "pure religion is undefiled before God." But you have not repented of saying God drags people into salvation, saying "God draws it means to drag" as you admit you "agree with [some] of Calvinism." But all 5 points of Calvinism are false. And you have not repented of saying "As far as once saved always saved.... I can find Scripture...to both...but I know I have it now." Is God the author of confusion? Does God contradict Himself? How can you have eternal life now if can possibly be lost? God gives us assurance we whom are saved are once saved always saved. That's a faith you can trust and respect. John 10 says those who are born-again "they shall never perish" (v.28). Let me know when you have given your life to this Jesus who doesn't contradict Himself and never lets any pluck His own out of His hand.
 
You said you agree with some or all of the 5 points of Calvinism
http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741183-the-writers-of-luke-john-and-matthew-about-the-cross/?p=1279755 


You said you are not sure if you believe in the God who keeps people once saved always saved

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741182-matthew-1621-says-jesus-says-he-would-be-killed/page-4#entry1279802 

 

You said religion is not a good thing (which you have since repented of)

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741182-matthew-1621-says-jesus-says-he-would-be-killed/?p=1279688 

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Okay, you misunderstood me I didn't say I agree with the 5 points of Calvinism because I didn't know what they are. You never mentioned them. Now when I look them up I might agree with some of them I don't know until I research it. I cannot answer or repent of what I didn't say. I said I agree with the basics they believe such as the death and resurrection of Jesus...

As far as drag and draw, I never said I believed in drag personally. I said someone shared that with me and I though about it and wondered why he said that. That is all. You can't get blood out of a turnip bro, and as far as once saved always saved, I always believed that and shared that with others.

Of course you know the 5 points of Calvinism because you have given them elsewhere and the 5 points of OSAS Arminian just as I have mentioned them. You have already stated your view of your god dragging people into salvation which is irresistible grace, total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement and perseverance.

 

How can you say you agree with some of Calvinism and now claim you don't know anything about Calvinism? Playing dumb is disingenuous and your doubletalk is unethical. But you have no conscience in Christ to realize this behavior is wrong.

 

You said that you are considering a God who irresistibly drags. If you are considering that god obviously you are not a Christian. Likewise you said you thought it possible a person can lose salvation now you are changing your story. But you never repented when having said the former.

 

You're all over the place because you make yourself the rock.

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You have not repented of saying "religion is death" and "religion is not a good thing" for the Bible says "pure religion is undefiled before God" and your profile states you are "believer without religion." True repentance is followed by appropriate behavior and not saying one thing then turning around and saying the opposite. A believer without religion is a believer in a false faith since religion is the way to God. Perhaps you are one of those who claim there are different ways to God without pure religion.

 

You have not repented of saying God drags people into salvation when you said "God draws it means to drag" as you admit you "agree with [some] of Calvinism" and "the jury is still out in your mind." Evil spirits gain strongholds in your mind to hold such evil thoughts that the jury is still out for you. God never coerces His love. That would not be love at all. All 5 points of Calvinism are false starting with Total depravity. How can a Totally depraved person freely choose Christ? Total depravity necessitates irresistibly imposed salvation and preterion, that is, passing over others, not giving them sufficient grace to have the free choice. What love is that? And you are considering this faith? Surely you are not saved.

 

And you have not repented of saying "As far as once saved always saved.... I can find Scripture...to both...but I know I have it now." Forgetting you said this is not the same as repenting of it. God never said to not repent and just forget. You are greatly deceived. This false belief, therefore, will keep cropping up in your doubtful unsaved heart.

 

You said you agree with some or all of the 5 points of Calvinism

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741183-the-writers-of-luke-john-and-matthew-about-the-cross/?p=1279755

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741182-matthew-1621-says-jesus-says-he-would-be-killed/?p=1279688

 

You said you are not sure if you believe in the God who keeps people once saved always saved

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741182-matthew-1621-says-jesus-says-he-would-be-killed/page-4?do=findComment&comment=1279802

You said religion is not a good thing

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741182-matthew-1621-says-jesus-says-he-would-be-killed/?p=1279688

 

May Muslims come to Christ realizing there are false Christians worshiping a false Christ, and you need not become one of them.

Edited by faithfulserv

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I looked it up total depravity of man: The total depravity of man is seen throughout the Bible. Man’s heart is “deceitful and desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9), and the thoughts of his heart are “continually evil” (Genesis 6:5). The Bible also teaches us that man is born dead in transgression and sin (Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, Ephesians 2:1-5). The Bible teaches that because unregenerate man is “dead in transgressions” (Ephesians 2:5), he is held captive by a love for sin (John 3:19; John 8:34) so that he will not seek God (Romans 3:10-11) because he loves the darkness (John 3:19) and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). Therefore, men suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18) and continue to willfully live in sin. Because they are totally depraved, this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14:12) so they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:18) and their mind is “hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is unable to do so” (Romans 8:7).

 

The Apostle Paul summarizes the total depravity of man in Romans 3:9-18. He begins this passage by saying that “both Jews and Greeks are all under sin.” Simply put, this means that man is under the control of sin or is controlled by his sin nature (his natural tendency to sin). The fact that unregenerate people are controlled by their selfish, sinful tendencies should not come as a surprise to any parent. What parent has to teach his or her child to be selfish, to covet what someone else has or to lie? Those actions come naturally from the child’s sin nature. Instead, the parent must devote much time to teaching the child the importance of telling the truth, of sharing instead of being selfish, of obeying instead of rebelling, etc.

 

Then in the rest of this passage Paul quotes extensively from the Old Testament in explaining how sinful man really is. For example, we see that 1—no one is without sin, 2—no one seeks after God, 3—there is no one who is good, 4—their speech is corrupted by sin, 5—their actions are corrupted by sin, and 6—above all, they have no fear of God. So, when one considers even these few verses, it becomes abundantly clear the Bible does indeed teach that fallen man is “totally depraved,” because sin affects all of him including his mind, will and emotions so that “there is none who does good, no not one” (Romans 3:12).

 

Are you saying you disagree that man is depraved?

 

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/total-depravity.html#ixzz2ic5sOjyN"]http://http://www.gotquestions.org/total-depravity.html#ixzz2ic5sOjyN[/url]

 

This is what I believe is true. The heart of man is desperately wicked who can know. I believe that Jesus is the only who can deliver me from this body of sin and death and He has. He has taken my sin and given me all His righteousness; therefore, I am the righteousness of Christ and that is why I am heaven bound. If someone tells me I am going to hell they are calling God a liar and need to repent of that. That is what the Lord shows me.

None of those verses you cite indicate man is totally depraved. Wicked, fallen, yes, but not totally depraved. The Biblical meaning of dead isn't total depravity in which your god would then have to irresistibly select you or preterition, pass over others. Dead doesn't mean physically dead incapable of responding to the gospel that God provides the grace to be able to do so. God implores you to believe in Him thus proving you are not totally depraved. Otherwise God would be sadistic. You can still walk an old lady across the street so don't take phrases like "continually evil" as being incapable of receiving God. God gives your will the ability to receive Him. This is the God you reject. When God speaks of man's deplorable state, He is not disallowing man to receive the cross otherwise Jesus died for no reason at all. So Calvinism's Total depravity is the first lie of Calvinism misreading the Scriptures. Because man is under the control of sin, he needs to receive God's grace. Since none seek after God what God does is provide sufficient grace to us all to have the free choice that there is one thing we can do which is receive the cross and desire God's will to be saved.

 

Man is depraved but not totally depraved. This is how I knew you were not a Christian because you would come to the defense of the 1st tenant of Calvinism which is Total depravity. Because you read the Bible with your flesh you legalize man's fallen nature into total depravity. Man is not Totally depraved. Man is made in God's image and given sufficient grace to have the free choice. This is something God can do, but your god of Calvinism cannot do. All your god can do is irresistibly impose salvation from a presumed Totally depraved state but it is entirely delusional because man is not Totally depraved. Total depravity is the idol of Calvinism that separates them from God like Hitler who claims the Jews were born for the gas chambers claiming they were Totally depraved and the Aryan race irresistibly selected out of Total depravity. If it was not for Calvinism Hitler could not have deceived so many.

 

You are going to Hell because you refuse to repent of your sins as we have documented that show you worship a false Christ. This is what the Lord showed me about you.

 

You have not repented of saying "religion is death" and "religion is not a good thing" for the Bible says "pure religion is undefiled before God" and your profile states you are "believer without religion." True repentance is followed by action and not saying one thing then turning around and saying the opposite. A believer without religion is a believer in a false faith since religion is the way to God. Perhaps you are one of those who claim there are different ways to God without pure religion.

 

You have not repented of saying God drags people into salvation when you said "God draws it means to drag" as you admit you "agree with [some] of Calvinism" and "the jury is still out in [your] mind." Evil spirits gain strongholds in your mind to hold such evil thoughts that the jury is still out for you. God never coerces His love. That would not be love at all. All 5 points of Calvinism are false starting with Total depravity. How can a Totally depraved person freely choose Christ? Total depravity necessitates irresistibly imposed salvation and preterition, that is, passing over others, not giving them sufficient grace to have the free choice. What love is that? You are considering this faith? Surely you are not saved.

 

Also, you have not repented of saying "As far as once saved always saved.... I can find Scripture...to both...but I know I have it now." Forgetting you said this is not the same as repenting of it. God never said to not repent and just forget. You are greatly deceived. This false belief, therefore, will keep cropping up in your doubtful unsaved heart.

 

You said you agree with some or all of the 5 points of Calvinism

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741183-the-writers-of-luke-john-and-matthew-about-the-cross/?p=1279755

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741182-matthew-1621-says-jesus-says-he-would-be-killed/?p=1279688

 

You said you are not sure if you believe in the God who keeps people once saved always saved

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741182-matthew-1621-says-jesus-says-he-would-be-killed/page-4?do=findComment&comment=1279802

 

You said religion is not a good thing

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/741182-matthew-1621-says-jesus-says-he-would-be-killed/?p=1279688

 

May Muslims come to Christ realizing there are false Christians worshiping a false Christ, and you need not become one of them.          

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I know this is hard for you to understand because you are a legalizer of man's fallen condition which you convert into the total depravity idol unable to respond to the gospel thus nobody would be saved in your view unless your god irresistibly imposes salvation on someone.

 

That you think this way shows me your spirit is dead to God, that you have separated yourself from God and worship a false Christ who quite resembles Hitler. Just as Hitler claimed total depravity of mankind and preteritioned the Jews to the gas chambers and irresistibly selected the Ayran nation, so you exalt yourself on a pedestal claiming you were irresistibly selected out of Total depravity and others passed over for Hell. What love is that? Pride begets the fall.

 

You keep defending Calvinism.

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      I consider Dr. Louay Fatoohi a unique muslim scholar of comparative religion. He came from Arab Christian background and has been passionate in studying the Qur’an, Islam and comparative religion since his youth . He is one of a few muslim author I know who is equally conversant with scholarly works on religion on both Christian and Islamic tradition, modern and classical as well as other historical sources, or on combinations of these writings.

      This book, I must say, is concise yet dense with information with meticulous crafted analysis on why and how the Messiah was developed in Judaism and Christianity. Fatoohi seeks to show that the Qur’anic Messiah is actually the historical one. Fatoohi drew upon his extensive study on the historical Jesus as he went through the concept of the “Messiah” in the Qur’an, the Bible (canonical and non canonical sources) and Dead Sea Scrolls and scholars from this field.

      In one chapter Fatoohi examines the concept of “Messiah” in the Hebrew Bible and other Jewish sources, including the Dead Sea Scrolls,. He make a very important observation that this title “Messiah” in the Hebrew Bible is applied only to historical never prophetic / future saviour figures, only later Jewish theology and literature started to invent this title as prophetic King, the salvational eschatological Messiah serving to free an oppressed jews abandoned by God. Fatoohi also explains different messiahs in other Jewish writings, the most prominent is the one described as the “son of David” the Royal military saviour and other is the priestly Messiah of Aaronic decendant, albeit the jews were not unanimous in their depiction of the awaited Messiah.

      In another chapter Fatoohi go through the concept of the term Messiah in the greek New Testament, Christos (Χριστός) from which “Christ” is derived. All New testament writers recognise Jesus as the Christ but in the New Testament the concept of “the Messiah”reflect the substantially bigger role as opposed to the Hebrew Bible. However Fatoohi explains Jesus of the Gospels was not properly anointed according to jewish tradition so that Jewish authorities and most jews did not recognise his messiahship. The same chapter Fatoohi highlight that the term “Christ”makes most of its appearance in Paul’s letters. Paul incorrectly use the term “Christ” as a proper name not title. This show his flawed understanding of what the term mean. Paul’s Christ is a spiritual figure who came to redeem people, by being crucified and raised from the dead. This version of Christ, Fatoohi argues, blur the historical Jesus because it is lack of Jesus historical details. Over centuries, most christians took Paul version of historical Jesus and focus only on the alleged crucifixion and the resurrection of him.

      Fatoohi dedicated a chapter discussing Al-Masih in the Qur’an. Essentially Fatoohi shows that the title is never presented as the reason for a special prophethood that make Jesus one of the most favoured prophets (yes , Jesus is one of those prophets) however Qur’an 3:45 give indication that the Messiah was a concept that God had previously revealed: a prophecy, although this prophecy is not specifically cited anywhere in the Qur’an as mentioning it centuries after it was fulfilled would not serve any purpose. Also Fatoohi explains that the use of definite article Al Masih does not necessarily mean that the Qur’an implies that there was only one Messiah although Jesus was the one special Messiah.

      The rest of the chapters Fatoohi discuss the different identities and attribute that the Gospel writers presented the Christ and examine each one of them from the Qur’an perspective, here are some salient points from this book, which I find it interesting:

      King of the Jews — in addition to anointed priests and prophets , the awaited Messiah is seen by the Jews as King, however the general context in NT, Fatoohi argues that Jesus never sought nor was he ever given the Kingship title. Jesus confirmed that he was the Christ in a way that a prophet and rabbi who remind people to go back to the religion of Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Aaron and all Hebrew prophets. The Christian image of the Messiah as a Spiritual King is the result of blending the Jewish concept of the messiah as an earthly King with the fact that Jesus historical role who was a spiritual leader to the Jews. The Qur’an corrected this distortion and put Jesus as a prophet who teach his people to go back to the teaching of what earlier prophets had brought. Jesus of the Qur’an is not a political leader who was expected to re-establish an earthly kingdom i.e. israel nor a quasi God who posses the throne of Heaven.
      Second Coming — Fatoohi persuasively argues that the concept of Jesus second coming was developed by Jesus early followers to explain his failure to deliver what they thought the Christ was going to do. The Qur’an does not support this concept of returning Messiah. The Qur’an messiah fulfilled his mission on earth. Although there are a number of hadiths attributed to Prophet Muhammad that seems to confirm Jesus second coming, it must have been influenced by Christian understanding. I am surprised that Fatoohi arrive at this conclusion there is Qur’anic verses which indirectly seems to suggest Jesus return e.g.[sûrah al-Nisâ’: 159, Sûrah al-Zukhruf: 61] as well as those hadiths predicting the returning of Jesus which are considered authentic, nevertheless I still find Fatoohi position plausible albeit minority position among Islamic scholars. I will look into this matter.
      Son of David — Many christians are eager to link Jesus as being descendant to David, the second King of israel (later just Judah) who had descendants also upon the throne. Here Fatoohi shows how contradictory position in the four gospels in relation to Jesus as being the son of David, and how those position were not reconcilable. On the other hand the Qur’anic position is consistent in maintaining that Jesus is “the son of Mary”, this mean the Qur’an reject any idea that Jesus is a warrior Messiah like David who was going to restore israel thus the fulfilment of the prophecy to David in 2 Samuel 7:16. In my opinion Fatoohi also spot on when bringing the point that Jesus link to Aaron because the fact that the Qur’an call Jesus’ Mother as “sister of Aaron. While as Fatoohi pointed out it is common mistakes among Biblical scholar to understand the expression “sister of Aaron” as meaning that Mary had brother called “Aaron” not as title of tribal connection , I have personally fascinated by this Qur’an term. To me there is a good reason why the Quran refer Mary to Aaron kinship. It emphatically gives a particular significance that Mary’s son ie. Jesus has the birth right as “the Messiah” or anointed one as we can read in Exodus 30:30-31 when God ordered prophet Moses to anoint his brother Aaron with a special type of anointment with a particular oil for kings …..from this anointing it give him and his heirs the right to the priesthood title down to prophet Jesus, hence the title Jesus “the Messiah”.
      Saviour — Fatoohi explains that the Qur’anic Messiah of Jesus is neither a saviour to bring the jews to restore its own kingdom nor the one who save people from sin by playing role as atoning agent, he is no unique saviour, a messenger and prophet albeit one of special messenger who was conceived miraculously and performed impressive miracles.
      Suffering Messiah — Fatoohi rightly mention that Judaism actually never knew of a suffering or resurrected messiah and the Qur’an reject the idea that the Messiah ever suffered the Passion. The concept of suffering messiah was a novelty that Christian writers introduced.

      As a final point, Fatoohi concluded from his study that the messiahship of Jesus in the Qur’an represent the original concept of the messiah or one messiah which was revealed by God which predate any shift in the meaning by Jews and Christian. At first the Jews did not expect a redeemer Messiah as this title is just for any past figures who were anointed as a gesture to sanctify themselves. Later the Jews started to invent a eschatological warrior messiah and associate him with King David to restore the Kingdom of israel. Christians inherited this type of Messiah and projected it even more on their Christ: a King from throne of Heaven who already came to atone people sin. Jesus saw his messiahship as a mandate to conform divine messages that had been revealed to previous prophets that is calling people back to the way of God of Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Aaron and all Hebrew prophets. That is the historical Messiah the Qur’an is telling us about.

      I can say Fatoohi’s study is helpful in considering critically how the significance of Messiahship evolved from just anointed past figures to eschatological warrior King of Judaism to Pauline god-men Jesus and later how the Qur’an corrected Jesus messiahship back into rightful role : to led jewish people to salvation by showing them the right way to God.

      As no other Muslim writer/scholar I know have ever attempted to author a book focusing on the concept of “Messiah” like this book, I praise the author for his initiative.


      Also Dr. Fatoohi has also authored books on similar genre in my collection which I also recommend

      The Mystery of the Crucifixion: The Attempt to Kill Jesus in the Qur’an, the New Testament, and Historical Sources. (2008)
      The Mystery of the Historical Jesus: The Messiah in the Qur’an, the Bible, and Historical Sources. (2007)
      https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/02/09/the-mystery-of-the-messiah-the-messiahship-of-jesus-in-the-quran-new-testament-old-testament-and-other-sources-by-louay-fatoohi/
    • By Absolute truth
      John 8:58 is perhaps one of the best verses to disprove the deity of Christ, most Christians simply fail to see the problems with utilizing such a verse and in this article I’d like to demonstrate just how useful the “I AM” statement attributed to Christ is. Let’s first take a look at the verses in question:

      God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’” – Exodus 3:14.

      “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” – John 8:58.

      There is something very important to note, we must ask, who is God in Exodus 3:14? The Hebrew from the Westminster Leningrad Codex references God as Elohiym, see here. According to Christian belief, Elohiym can either refer to the Father (God) or the Godhead (all three persons of the Trinity). If Christ is claiming to be the Elohiym of Exodus 3:14 then there exists a major problem.

      Problem 1:

      Elohiym consists of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit of one substance, united by the Godhead. If Christ is claiming to be this Elohiym (the united Three Persons), then he is claiming to be the Father as well as the Holy Spirit. According to Trinitarian dogma, the Son is not the Father or the Spirit. In other words, if Christ is claiming to be the Elohiym (of Three Persons) then he is effectively breaking the rules of the Trinitarian dogma as the Son is claiming to be other persons in the Godhead.

      Problem 2:

      If the Elohiym of Exodus 3:14 is the Father alone, then Christ who is the Son is claiming to be the Father and according to Christian Trinitarian belief, the Son is not the Father. Therefore if the Christian is claiming Christ to be Elohiym – the Father, then the Christian is admitting that the Trinity in this case is a false teaching or that Christ did not believe in the Trinity that they appeal to.

      Problem 3:

      The Fallacy of False Equivocation.

      Jack is a boy.
      James is a boy.
      Jack is James.

      Obviously Jack is not James.

      Orange is a fruit.
      Apple is a fruit.
      Oranges are Apples.

      Obviously Oranges are not Apples.

      God says I am.
      Jesus says I am.
      God is Jesus.

      Clearly we can see that this is the fallacy of false equivocation.

      Problem 4:

      The Christian claims that while the Son cannot claim to be the Father or the Spirit, the Son can claim to be God. For explanation purposes, let’s use a common learning aid which Christians use to explain this reasoning:

      cc-2014-trinity-diagram

      However, this makes it worse for the Christian. Consider the following examples:

      You cannot say that John is an employee in the company, but you can say that John works for the company.
      You cannot say that Shem and Ham are brothers, but you can say that they have the same mother and father.
      You cannot say that a banana is a fruit, but you can say that the banana belongs in the fruit basket.

      Similarly:

      You cannot say that the Son is the Father or the Spirit, but you can say that the Son is the Father, Son and Spirit.

      It’s a contradictory claim. The Son is not the Father or the Spirit, yet they believe the Son is the Father and the Spirit unified. Allow the Christian to ponder on this logic and see where it leads them, aid their thinking process by using the other examples provided above.

      Conclusion:

      The Christian cannot appeal to John 8:58 without disproving the doctrine of the Trinity by means of demonstrating that Christ himself did not know he could not claim to be the other persons of the Godhead. We can also demonstrate that they are applying faulty reasoning in their argumentation and thus can quickly disarm their frivolous claims.

      and God knows best.
       
      http://callingchristians.com/2014/02/27/the-problem-of-john-858-for-christianity/
    • By idefender
      Just for today only (January 1st, 2014), New Stories of the Prophets: The Complete Volume is available for free of cost on Amazon Kindle (valued at $9.99)
       

       
       
      With stories and references of over thirty Prophets of God in Islam,
      "New Stories of the Prophets" is a modern attempt to gather an in-depth
      chronological story of the life and times of Prophets Adam to Jesus
      using the Holy Qur'an, Hadith, Exegeses, Bible, scholarly opinion and
      historical analysis. The book includes all four volumes and is based on
      the 'Biography of a Mighty Prophet' series. These volumes are:


      Volume 1: Adam to Salih

      Volume 2: Abraham to Shuaib

      Volume 3: Moses to David

      Volume 4: Solomon to Daniel

      Volume 5: Zechariah to Jesus
    • By idefender
      As Salamu Alaikum
       
      I wanted to let everyone know that for today, the book on Amazon "Story of the Dajjal: The Antichrist" is available for free on Amazon Kindle. I first started this book eight years ago and by the grace of Allah it has been completed. It deals with all the topics of the Dajjal from the signs of his coming, how World War 1 is connected and his arrival and future events. 
       
      Take a look: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FPM2U6K
       
      Some example topics include: Thirty Dajjals, if he is alive, how plague is a sign, World War 1, Ibn Sayyid, Society, Globalism, Religious Fitnah, Arab World, the UN, Trials and the Great Famine, Mahdi and so on.
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