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Who Said The Bible Is Corrupted?

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you can actually hear christian scholar say that they believe 3 gods in 1 God, he said holy ghost is also a god. oh man what deluded people these christians are, not strange that God called you deluded people in the holy quran.

 

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Andulusi,

 

     Hello I am not a big fan of Youtube links embedded in posts for the simple fact that my system sometimes doesn't open them well.  I was able to view yours but an error did occur where I couldn't actually see it all the way through.  Never fear though I was able to listen. :)

I must say it was thought provoking.  It should give any of the Reformation Churches a reason to pause and reflect.  Now that may seem strange why only one group and not all of Christendom as a whole. 

     The answer is simple.  The older the Christian Communion ie the Catholic Church, Eastern or Oriental Orthodox the more it relies on both Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture.  Wait that can't be right, right?  It is so right its true.  You could easily say well there's your problem.  If the Church isn't run simply from the Bible then its open to corruption.  This would at first seem to bolster the claim of Islam and every other Christian or other Religion that claims a connection to Jesus through it via the old scripture being lost or corrupted as they say.  Think again.

     The simple fact of the matter the oldest Christian Communions can liturgically call themselves The Church.  They have valid sacraments or mysteries as their known in the Eastern Churches.  They may call them different names but they are still, as follows Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist, Holy Matrimony, Holy Orders, Penance, and Extreme Unction.  This is rather significant.  After all wouldn't they all be radically different?  The early Church had Councils to resolve disputes much as they do today even though the Church may appear fractured into different Communions at this time.  My point is that the further you go back to the beginning of the Church the more the Churches merge into one body. In short St. John Henry Newman's quote seems to apply," To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."  There goes Sola Scriptura.  Ok, about now your saying I didn't address your question.  Well it goes something like this.  The Church was given the authority by Jesus Christ to bind and loose and thus they wrote the New Testament.  Using their teaching authority from the Apostles through Apostolic Succession.  They  used their authority and selected the Books used in the Septuagint ie Old Testament.  That's why even today among the different Churches you'll see different numbers of books in the Old Testament Canon, ie 73-88 for the some Orthodox,   73 for the Catholic Church, etc.  Your choose an tract from Dr. Ehrman.  It should be noted that while he has a point his approach to the scriptures is from the Protestant side and heavy into Textual criticism.  That may seem important but its pure cut and dry stuff and tends to neglect the spiritual side of Christianity in favor of rendering it like a text book.  As Dr. Ehrman well knows that can be disastrous to ones faith life as he lost his during his study.  That's what happens when Sola Scriptura is viewed as the only way to read and analyze the Bible.  There is much more to it than that.  

     As for the discussion among the Rabbi and the Dr.  Well their issue is in pulling straight from the Hebrew Scriptures in this case the Oral Torah. What? you might ask am I talking about well its simple.  You need to remember what Christianity claims to be.... israel.  The Hebrew Canon wasn't completely codified until after the Christians started to do it.  Don't get me wrong the Talmud has always been yet what books and opinions were used varied depending on the Jewish community.  Case in point the Jerusalem Talmud currently used by the Jewish community today doesn't mirror the Babylonian Talmud.  Different place different time and you could say a different view.  The Babylonian Talmud dealt more with sacrificial rites than say the Jerusalem Talmud this is key to Christianity.  The Talmud is the Oral Torah.  In short Just as the Catholic Church has the Magisterium so the Judaism had the Oral Torah.  Naturally the Jewish authorities seeing the explosive rise of Christianity would attempt to discredit it as its a direct threat to their authority.  So naturally the books or passages pointing to Jesus wouldn't be in the Hebrew Canon or if there they'd be distorted.   

Case in point while Ehrman is right that the word trinity isn't explicitly said in the scriptures it is implied. Christian Trinitarians say it best that It is the Father who generates, The Son who is Begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds.  Here are a few passages that can lead to it.  First the often used Genesis 16;7, 18-19, 21;17, 31;11.  As well as Exodus 3;2, Daniel 3;46-51, 3;91-98, 7;13-14.  Psalms 22;1-31, 41;9, Zechariah 11;12-13, 12;10,  Isaiah 50;6, 53;4-7, 9,12.  

 

As you can see your right the word trinity is never used.  Yet, it sure does seem to foreshadow Jesus.  Again that's just my humble opinion. 

 

Peace be with you.    

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christians , God call you directly from the Quran to join muslims in their belief and abandon false manmade ideas like trinity wich lead to hellfire beacuse you splitt God in 3 persons, wich is not monoteism anymore, that is biggest sin you could ever do, to associate partner with God, and that lead to hell for sure for sure for sure if you die with such belief.

 

 

People of the book are christians and jews

 

GOd says in the quran:
 



O People of the Book!


 

O People of the Book! now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Messenger, after the break in (the series of) Our Messengers, lest ye should say: "There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil)"; but now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil). And Allah hath power over all things. Quran 5.19

Say: "O People of the Book! why reject ye the Signs of Allah, when Allah is Himself witness to all ye do?"
[99] Say: "O ye People of the Book! why obstruct ye those who believe, from the path of Allah, seeking to make it crooked, while ye were yourselves witnesses (to Allah's Covenant)? But Allah is not unmindful of all that ye do." Quran 3.98,99

Say: "O People of the Book! do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and disobedient?" Quran 5.59

Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will)." Quran 3.64

Ye People of the Book! why reject ye the Signs of Allah, of which ye are (yourselves) witnesses?
[71] Ye People of the Book! why do ye clothe Truth with falsehood, and conceal the Truth, while ye have knowledge? Quran 3.70,71

Say: "O People of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by, who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even Way. Quran 5.77

 

O People of the Book! there hath come to you Our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book.
[16] Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His Will, unto the light, guideth them to a Path that is Straight.Quran 5.15,16


 

 Say: "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord. "It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.Quran 5.68

 

 

 

Say not "Trinity"

 

O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. Quran  4.171 ( Sourat  ANNISA, verse  171)

They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity

 

They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them [74] Why turn they not to Allah and seek His Forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Quran  5.73  ( Sourat  ALmayda, verse  73,74)

 

 

 




Is jesus  god ? 

  

They do blaspheme 
 

In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Al-Masih the son of Maryam. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His Will were to destroy Al-Masih the son of Maryam, his mother, and all, everyone that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things." Quran 5.17 ( Surat Al-Mayda , verse 17)

 

They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Al-Masih the son of Maryam." But said Al-Masih: "O Children of israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah, Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. Quran 5.72 ( Surat Al-Mayda, verse 72)
 

Jesus was no more than a Messenger


 

Al-Masih, the son of Maryam, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth! Quran 5.75 ( Surat Al-Mayda, verse 75)

 

He was no more than a servant: We granted Our favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of israel.  Quran 43.59 (Surat Az-Zukhruf , verse 59)

O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Quran 4.171 ( Surat An-Nisaa, verse 171) .

Al-Masih disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant, He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer). Quran 4.172 ( Surat An-Nisaa, verse 172)
 

It is not (possible) that a man, to whom is given the Book, and Wisdom, and the Prophetic office, should say to people: "Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah's": on the contrary (he would say): "Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all: for ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly."Quran  3.79 (  Surat-Alimran , verse 79)


 

They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Al-Masih, the son of Maryam; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him). Quran 9.31 ( Surat At-Tawbah, verse 31)


 

The similitude of 'Isa before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him "Be": and he was. Quran  3.59 ( Surat Alimran , Verse 59)


 

O 'Isa the son of Maryam!


 

And behold! Allah will say: "O 'Isa the son of Maryam! didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.117] "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
[118] "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servants: if Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."119] Allah will say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath, their eternal home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah: that is the great salvation, (The fulfilment of all desires).  Quran 5.116 ( Surat Al-Mayda, verse 116..118)


Was jesus crucified ?
What  says the Quran?

 


 

O 'Isa! I will take thee and raise thee to myself


 

Behold! Allah said: "O 'Isa! I will take thee and raise thee to myself and clear thee (of the falsehood) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject Faith, to the Day of Resurrection: then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute. Quran 3.55 ( Sourat alimran , verse 55)


 

 


 

Jesus was never crucified


 

That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Maryam a grave false charge; 


 

[157] That they said (in boast), "We killed Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.[158] Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.


 

[159] And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them. Quran  4.156,159 ( Sourat  AN-NiSAA, verses 156..159)


 

 


 

 


 

Edited by andalusi

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Andalusi, I can tell your very resolute in your belief. That is indeed something to be commended. Yet, fear not. God loves all of us. For he loved the world so much he gave his only begotten Son. That whoever believes in him shall not die but have ever lasting life.

I realize to you Christians are ascribing partners to God. Yet, that isn't the Christian understanding but the Islamic one. Your right to follow your scriptures. Christians don't see it that way. If anything we view it that others are trying to sunder God into pieces. God is our Heavenly Father in Christianity. Everyone is offered to become sons and daughters of God through adoption through his Son Jesus Christ via baptism. Your following the Koran and halothane this is a good thing. Allow the Christians to follow our Gospels. The fact of the matter is that Christians are told to judge the fruits of those who come after that preach a different Gospel. There is no doubt that Mohammad did just that. So, Christians look at his life and the faith he spread among his people. We compare it to the Gospels if it doesn't pass the smell test we don't have to follow it. Now, there are many good things in Islam. But, do they compare to the Christian Gospels whether others say their corrupted or not? I don't think so.

Peace be with you.

 

Peace be with you

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Andalusi, I can tell your very resolute in your belief. That is indeed something to be commended. Yet, fear not. God loves all of us. For he loved the world so much he gave his only begotten Son. That whoever believes in him shall not die but have ever lasting life.

 

 

this verse is not in orginal text of the bible, this verse is forged , this has been exposed by Deedat long time ago , you can see that in this video at 3:40 sec

 

 

that verse you cant find in the revised standard verseion of the bible from 1952.

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Andalusi,

     Very informative.  Yet, it should be noted that there was controversy during that  biblical commission which is no surprise.  Everything from what you mentioned to it having a Protestant bias by translating the Greek word for tradition in a few places to teachings in others though it is still the same word.  What can I say ....scholars.  They also adopted the words one and only instead of only begotten in John 3;16, 18, 1;14,18.  I have to say that revised standard version was one of the most controversial attacks on Jesus's divinity.  For instance this is a 2011 review of said revised standard version by Michael Marlowe:

 

        Though we may speak of an “evangelical” bias in the version, it is sometimes not very conservative in the sense of presenting interpretations associated with traditional theology. A notable example of the version’s departure from the orthodox tradition of interpretation is its rendering of the word μονογενής in John’s Gospel (1:14, 18; 3:16, 18) and in his first Epistle (4:9). The NIV renders this word as “one and only.” Traditionally, the word is understood to mean “only begotten,” and in the history of Christian doctrine this form of words hasversion  some importance. The Nicene Creed, which continues to be used as a confession of faith in many churches, declares that Christ is “the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds ... begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father.” Here the significance of the γενης in μονογενής is drawn out and explained in terms of an eternal generation of the Son, by virtue of which the Son shares the essential qualities of the Father. It expresses the ontological equality between the Father and the Son, and prevents the the Arian teaching that the Son is a heavenly subordinate “made” by the Father. He who is “begotten” shares the natural qualities of his begetter. 10 One need not enter into all the subtleties of ancient controversies about the Trinity in order to see that “only begotten” is an anthropomorphic metaphor designed to express an identity of nature between the Persons of the Godhead (like Father, like Son), and this traditional understanding of the word μονογενής is amply supported by linguistic evidence. But the NIV excludes this understanding of the word, by rendering it as “one and only,” minus the semantic component of “begotten.” Richard Longenecker ventured to explain the thinking of the NIV committee in his article, “the One and Only Son,” published in The NIV: The Making of a Contemporary Translation (IBS, 1991). After a highly tendentious presentation 11 of linguistic evidence supporting the NIV’s minimalistic “one and only” rendering, Longenecker explains that the rendering “only begotten” is undesirable “particularly because it leaves open the possibility of an etymological emphasis on genes (the idea of generation).” He should have said “exegetical emphasis,” because no reliance upon etymology is involved in recognizing the force of the genes in this compound. A scholar may, of course, choose to emphasize the “only,” as Longenecker does, but the rendering “only begotten” does not prevent anyone from doing this. Longenecker prefers “one and only” not because his interpretation is prevented by “only begotten,” but because it leaves open the possibility of seeing some significance in the “begotten,” along the lines of the Nicene Creed. As if it were a prerogative of translators to present new interpretations in such a way that traditional interpretations are absolutely excluded. It may be that others of the committee did not have any such manipulation of the reader in mind. Up until the revision of 2011 they did offer the rendering “Only Begotten” as an alternative in the margin. Perhaps some were not aware of any theological implications in the phrase, and simply balked at having a word like “begotten” in their modern-language rendering of the text. But in any case, Longenecker’s argument is not acceptable. It is not that we expect all scholars and translators to agree with every word of the Nicene Creed. Rather, the point is, we do not expect “evangelical” translators to have such contempt for this landmark of orthodoxy that they would deliberately prevent readers from interpreting the Bible in line with its Christology.

 

It should be noted that those scholars seemed to have changed the words for readability at least according to the man I quoted above.  Imagine that.  That doesn't necessarily mean that all the bibles are corrupted.  Though I do understand where your going with this.  This is still more of an issue for the Bible only Christians rather than the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.  We use both Tradition and Sacred Scripture, remember?  Plus I typed in a search for which bible removed john 3;16.  None came up, you'd think something so inflammatory would pop right up but it didn't. 

 

Peace be with you.       

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In all three of the worlds great religions, ALL  have their own BOOK .  Therefore ALL should refrain from accusing one another of having a "corrupted book " .

 Believe what you choose , it is afterall really between you and God , and NO ONE else .

 God created all men with a higher brain than the animals , a brain capable of reason. So whatever a man's brain will reason , there he finds his religion and path to  the ONE God.

 There is only ONE god , but different paths which lead to Him .

 If those who believe in the ONE GOD can not find unity in that , then there will never be unity , until GOD HIMSELF INTERVENES in man's space and time .  
 

Edited by Aligarr

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Aligarr,

    

     Christians don't accuse the Jews or Muslims of having a corrupted book.  That's the Muslim claim.  However, I will say that God calls all people to himself.  How is often known to him alone.  However, the Catholic Church acknowledges that many search for the hidden God seen in the shadows by many religions.  To The Catholic Church and to Christianity in general  God is revealed through Christ Jesus his Word. 

 

peace be with you.         

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Aligarr,

    

     Christians don't accuse the Jews or Muslims of having a corrupted book.  That's the Muslim claim.  However, I will say that God calls all people to himself.  How is often known to him alone.  However, the Catholic Church acknowledges that many search for the hidden God seen in the shadows by many religions.  To The Catholic Church and to Christianity in general  God is revealed through Christ Jesus his Word. 

 

peace be with you.         

 

if torah was not corrupted why would God send book called gospel to jesus christ to correct Torah?, if the gospel of jesus is not corrupted why would God send quran to correct it?

 

and God told us in the quran that previous books were corrupted by people and that God promised to protect the quran from corruption.

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That my friend is the right question. It is the one question all Christians must ask if they wish to convert to Islam. After all the corruption is an Islamic tenet not a Christian one. Christians don't see the Torah as corrupted which is why we still use the Old Testament.

 

Peace be with you.

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That my friend is the right question. It is the one question all Christians must ask if they wish to convert to Islam. After all the corruption is an Islamic tenet not a Christian one. Christians don't see the Torah as corrupted which is why we still use the Old Testament.

 

Peace be with you.

 

but Old testament say about itself that it is corrupted by bible.

 

if Old testament was ok, and if people followed it then there is no need for new revelation. new revelation comes from God when latest revelation is corrupted. that is why God sent new prophets and books.

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The prohets spoke things and their history are recorded as books. God did sent many prophets to israel. its purpose was not to correct torah. torah was never edited. Jesus came and preached new law. According to you, Jesus did right stuff.  so called editing happened according to your claim must be between jesus and muhammed time. that is around 1st to 7th century(500 to 600 years gap). actually what is your claim of editing? i dont understand it. you are blindly saying it got edited. New testament was compiled in 4th century. so according to your claim it must have happened between 4th century to 7th century(that is around 300-400 years). whether NT or OT was edited according to you? or both got edited? was gospel given to replace torah? what are your claims?

 

i read a lot of website articles which says bible has errors or something. ALL OF THEM talking about mistakes it made in translating in english. they translate from reading hebrew texts, greek texts. those hebrew and greek texts were found no error. when a man translates to english he might have used improper word of translation. only those words are revisied in revised edition. the copies of hebrew manuscripts are not revisied. they are same. 

 

your explanation of editing is not a clear stuff.  only thing you could point out in NT is about the divinty of JESUS mentioned explicitly which i believe is the TRUTH. But in OT what mistakes you found. nothing so far. in NT no valid claimes are found. but in NT jesus is son of GOD. that is all.

 

Also, interestingly your faith and jewish faith is so similar. yet you blame Jews so much which i cannot understand.

 

You cannot prove that bible is edited by any historical evidence. only picking up some minor errors which are made during translation. work of translation is human work and that too very minor errors.

 

i couldnt view any youtube videos posted in this discussion. 

 

May God led you to the TRUTH.

Shalom

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but Old testament say about itself that it is corrupted by bible.

 

if Old testament was ok, and if people followed it then there is no need for new revelation. new revelation comes from God when latest revelation is corrupted. that is why God sent new prophets and books.

Where does the Old Testament say this?

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I am told by Muslims the Bible is corrupted book, I am asked "so how can you trust something in that book if you dont have reference, like we muslims have reference the Quran?" The Bible tells us why Jesus had to have been born of a virgin. The Quran doesn't tell why it just states He was born of a virgin. The only place and book in all history that information could be found before the Quran was written was in the NT Bible. The Bible has problems but no where near the amount Muslims think! The central message of the gospel is consistent and in tack fully. Now, I would have a problem with the Bible if there were a Christian version of Uthman (non prophet) who burned all our original manuscripts and recompiled them into a single book, but that never happened. So why shouldn't I continue trusting it?

 

I am told by Muslims the Bible is corrupted book, I am asked "so how can you trust something in that book if you dont have reference, like we muslims have reference the Quran?" The Bible tells us why Jesus had to have been born of a virgin. The Quran doesn't tell why it just states He was born of a virgin. The only place and book in all history that information could be found before the Quran was written was in the NT Bible. The Bible has problems but no where near the amount Muslims think! The central message of the gospel is consistent and in tack fully. Now, I would have a problem with the Bible if there were a Christian version of Uthman (non prophet) who burned all our original manuscripts and recompiled them into a single book, but that never happened. So why shouldn't I continue trusting it?

The Bible is a great book. It tells us about God who loves us, and has some great stories in it. It also has a lot of mistakes, a lot more than the Quran and probably on the same level as the hadiths. 

 

The Bible states Jesus is God and tells us he was awesome and did great things. I believe he was an amazing guy who loved God and followed Him, but he also made some scientific errors in his teachings and some of his prophecies did not come true.

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Be interested to hear about these 'mistakes' but to be even handed let's have examples from Quran and the Bible

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Hi tanker,

 

If you want to see errors I have commented on from the Quran and the hadiths (there are far more of them in the hadiths, but that still poses a problem because the Quran says Muhammad is a prophet yet in some of his prophetic teachings there are clear errors), you can see the links below.

 

From the hadiths:

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/740416-signs-of-the-judgment-day-muhammed-prophecies-about-future/?p=1287457

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/742404-where-will-the-dajjal-emerge-from/

 

From the Quran:

http://www.gawaher.com/topic/742253-question-about-4615/

 

 

Regarding errors from the Bible, I will list for now just one of the sadly very many.

 

Matthew10:21-23

 

21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of israel before the Son of Man comes.

 

The disciples passed away almost 2 milennia ago, and I am unaware of any part of Palestine or israel that Christians have not been in at some point. Unfortunately, this was a false prophecy.

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I won't comment on the Islamic mistakes you have supposedly identified. But surely you understand the difficulty implied by this verse from Mattew has been know for practically 2,000 years? You see that when presented with difficulties we look for exegetical means to explain it - have you done that? Now, we might not know for certain on explanation is correct even when it is plausible but the fact that we can obtain a ration explanation implies that there is no mistake, only maybe our understanding is not complete

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I won't comment on the Islamic mistakes you have supposedly identified. But surely you understand the difficulty implied by this verse from Mattew has been know for practically 2,000 years? You see that when presented with difficulties we look for exegetical means to explain it - have you done that? Now, we might not know for certain on explanation is correct even when it is plausible but the fact that we can obtain a ration explanation implies that there is no mistake, only maybe our understanding is not complete

I've read various explanations of it, which ones do you want to examine specifically that you think clarify the error?

 

You said that the presence of "rational explanations" (please list which ones, btw) implies there are no mistakes, or that we have a misunderstanding. Funnily enough, people of other religions will say the exact same things when inconsistencies and mistakes in their holy books are presented. If the presence of rational explanations means there is no error, then every single religion is right! Is this what you believe?

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I don't thnk I mentioned errors you seem to have invented that or perhaps you equate mistake with error? I also de not say mistakes, just mistake in reference to your post. I prefer to say there may be supposed mistakes.

 

But why don't you post an explanation and then show it is impassable?

 

But tell me, what 'kind' of Christian are you?

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I don't thnk I mentioned errors you seem to have invented that or perhaps you equate mistake with error? I also de not say mistakes, just mistake in reference to your post. I prefer to say there may be supposed mistakes.

 

But why don't you post an explanation and then show it is impassable?

 

But tell me, what 'kind' of Christian are you?

Sorry tanker for waiting so long to respond.

 

Yes, to me for the purpose of this discussion, a mistake and an error mean the same thing.

 

There are many explanations for the passage I listed, and I believe all the ones so far I have seen are false. If you want to try to explain why Matthew 10:21-23 is not in error, please do so and we can discuss.

 

As to what kind of Christian I am... I used to consider myself evangelical when I believed that the Bible is 100% correct and true and infallible and believed Jesus is God, right now I still go to an evangelical church but don't believe these things anymore and I don't know whether I am still a Christian. I guess I call myself one because I've found no other label that I would want to be called.

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