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Relation Between The # 3 Gods In The One God

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We Christians have something you Muslims don't...a personal relationship with God.

 

God is closer to us than our jugular veins, kiddo.

 

 

 you can't call God your "Father"

 

Of course I can't. I'm a believer. The relation between me and Allah is one of a worshiper who worships His Creator. My father, I love him so dearly, but I have never worshiped him.

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We Christians have something you Muslims don't...a personal relationship with God. So stop trying to correct us. It's not our problem you can't call God your "Father"

A lot of Muslims including myself will claim otherwise. I definitely feel I have a personal relationship with God. Just because we don't call God our father doesn't mean that stops us from having a personal relationship with our Creator. 

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Yes God loves all his creations, and gave us everything that that we now enjoy. But when someone is ungrateful, and decides to worship other than Him, and insist on it til the day he dies, then he earns God's wrath. That is what I meant by saying His love is not unconditional love. If it is, then why there is hell? have you ever thought of that?

 

Even your twisted beliefs makes you think that to be forgiven you should love Jesus. It follows then that god's love in not unconditional, no? Because if you don't love Jesus, you will not be forgiven. How is that unconditional love, even by your own twisted standards?

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God the Father.

 

thanks for the answer, but that confusing a little bit, 

 

is it Ok for Christians to say, Lord the Father and god Jesus Christ,,,or that could be a violation of the Naecian' Cree

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AHMAD YOU HAVE TRICKY QUESTIONS :D

 

the funny thing is that christians pray to jesus, and jesus pray to another God (his God) and they say no they are one God, so basically jesus prayed to himself :no: more you get deep into christian religion more becomes your mind intelectually raped.

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Well, I'm pleased to hear that.. :) May I ask what kind of relationship do you have with God? Can you describe it. Because it does seem to me that Allah in Islam is distant and I struggle to see how I could have the same kind of relationship with Allah as I do with God...YHWH.

 

Blessings

We pray to Allah 5 times a day how can't we have a personal relationship when we do such an act? Allah even tells us in the quran he is close to us. You said: 

 

 

When we pray God speaks to us that is how we have a relationship that you don’t have. I believe you are seriously missing out on a lot.. 

In Islam prayer is not a one way thing. We believe that Allah listens to us. When we pray we all must say the surah al fatihah and this is like a conversation between us and God. Allah says about this surah:

 

I have divided the prayer into two halves between me and my servant, and my servant will receive what he asks. When the servant says: Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the universe, Allah the Most High says: my servant has praised me. And when he (the servant) says: The Most Compassionate, the merciful, Allah the Most High says: my servant has lauded me. And when he (the servant) says: Master of the Day of judgment, He remarks: my servant has glorified me. and sometimes He would say: my servant entrusted (his affairs) to me. And when he (the worshipper) says: Thee do we worship and of Thee do we ask help, He (Allah) says: This is between me and my servant, and my servant will receive what he asks for. Then, when he (the worshipper) says: Guide us to the straight path, the path of those to whom Thou hast been Gracious not of those who have incurred Thy displeasure, nor of those who have gone astray, He (Allah) says: This is for my servant, and my servant will receive what he asks for. (From Sahih Muslim)

 

For us Muslims, Allah is a huge part of our lives, we know He understands us and hears us. 

 

It was narrated from Abu Dharr that : the Messenger of Allah (saas) said: "Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, said: 'Whoever does one good deed will have (the reward of) ten like it and more, and whoever does a bad deed will have one like it, or I will forgive him. Whoever draws near to Me a hand span, I draw near to him an arm's length; whoever comes to Me a forearm's length, I draw near him an arm's length; whoever comes to Me walking, I come to him in a hurry. Whoever meets Me with an earthful of sins, but does not associate anything in worship with Me, I will meet it (i.e., his sins) with forgiveness equal to that.'" (Sahih Sunan Ibn Majah)

 

But truly this says it all:

 

When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close: I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (2:186)

 

If there was no relationship between man and God, if there was no connection, then we would praying to something which does not respond. We all belong to Allah and will eventually return to Him. We do not need God inside us in order to feel the connection, we do not need to feel the need to associate a human as being God in order to have a deeper connection. That is the beauty of Islam. 

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Christians and other disbelievers do not have a relationship with God:

 

But those who disbelieved - their deeds are like a mirage in a lowland which a thirsty one thinks is water until, when he comes to it, he finds it is nothing but finds Allah before Him, and He will pay him in full his due; and Allah is swift in account. (24:39)

 

 

 

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So remember Me; I will remember you. (2:152)

 

 

And [yet], among the people are those who take other than Allah as equals [to Him]. They love them as they [should] love Allah . But those who believe are stronger in love for Allah . And if only they who have wronged would consider [that] when they see the punishment, [they will be certain] that all power belongs to Allah and that Allah is severe in punishment. (2:165)

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 He speaks to us in a still small voice.

 

Really?!

how is that possible?

don't you know that the only human whom God spoke to was prophet Mousa PBUH?

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Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. (S. 5:47) We Christians are the people of the Gospel and we judge not you what Allah has revealed therein...

 

 

 

 

The gospel states that the father (God/Allah) judges no man but has committed all judgment unto the son so that you might honor the son the same as the father for he that doesn’t honor the son (equally) does not honor the father. John 5: 22 . The Quran states that Allah gave the uncorrupted gospel as his word and he is bound by it”

 

The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all. S 6: 115.

 

If today's Muslims say the Bible is corrupted due to people changing Allah's words in it, wouldn't they be implying Allah a liar and unable to fulfill his word spoken in the Quran? Do you think that is at all possible???

 

 

 Say: "O People of the Scripture! You have nothing till you act according to the Tawrah, the Injil, and what has  been sent down to you from your Lord .'' Verily, the revelation that has come to you from your Lord makes many of them increase in rebellion and disbelief. So do not grieve for the people who disbelieve. (5:68)

 

As for verse 6:115, it refers to the decrees of Allah. 

 

It's like these verses:

 

Verily, (many) Messengers were denied before you, but with patience they bore the denial, and they were hurt, till Our help reached them, and none can alter the Words of Allah. Surely, there has reached you the information about the Messengers (before you). (6:34)

 

 Behold! The Awliya' of Allah, no fear shall come upon them nor shall they grieve.) (63. Those who believed, and have Taqwa.) (64. For them is good news, in the life of the present world, and in the Hereafter. No change can there be in the Words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme success.) (10:62-64)

 

 Those who lagged behind will say, when you set forth to take the spoils, "Allow us to follow you.'' They want to change Allah's Words. Say: "You shall not follow us; thus Allah has said beforehand.'' Then they will say: "Nay, you envy us.'' Nay, but they understand not except a little.) (48:15)

 

These verses refer to the decrees of Allah. 

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He speaks to us in a still small voice. 

 

That's just your own still small voice. 

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We pray to Allah 5 times a day how can't we have a personal relationship when we do such an act? Allah even tells us in the quran he is close to us. You said: 

 

With all respect sister, I don’t see anything personal about an excess of over one billion Muslims all praying the exact same prayer at a designated time. I thought the five prayers a day is meant to be an act of unification of Muslims in their worship of God. It doesn’t leave much room for a personal relationship there.

 

Out of interest since you’re an ex-Catholic did you know Catholics pray the “Liturgy of the Hours” seven times of day? This is considered a public form of prayer not personal.

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Why is it that even when we point out clear things to you, you behave as if you don't see them. God help you because I cannot help you see anything Mair. If you think Allah does not respond to us Muslims then there is not much I can do. You keep listening to those voices in your head and believe that the holy spirit helps you connect with God. 

 

[at]Life In Christ - the 5 prayers have many functions not just unification of Muslims. Obviously the main function is related to our worship of Allah but this is not the only reason we pray. Also besides these 5 prayers there are many other ways we can pray to Allah by just calling on Him when we need. And not all Muslims pray at the same time every minute of the day. Surely you know that in one part of the world it is night time when at the other time it is day time. Also the 5 obligatory prayers can be prayed in a room by yourself. There is no rule in Islam that says we must always pray with other people. And as for catholic prayers it is not of my concern how they are considered by catholics. In Islam the 5 prayers are not defined as public. 

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[at]Life In Christ - the 5 prayers have many functions not just unification of Muslims. Obviously the main function is related to our worship of Allah but this is not the only reason we pray. Also besides these 5 prayers there are many other ways we can pray to Allah by just calling on Him when we need. And not all Muslims pray at the same time every minute of the day. Surely you know that in one part of the world it is night time when at the other time it is day time. Also the 5 obligatory prayers can be prayed in a room by yourself. There is no rule in Islam that says we must always pray with other people. And as for catholic prayers it is not of my concern how they are considered by catholics. In Islam the 5 prayers are not defined as public. 

 

I have no doubt Muslims have a personal relationship with God in their own way and I respect that. I just fail to see how it’s done through the regular public prayers. However I can see it done through a one-to-one free conversation with God. You’re allowed to pray this way right?

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 but if it is the truth which it is, why don't you respect the gospel we are commanded to judge?

 

But we do. We respect the gospel that you were commanded to follow. The problem is that you don't. You don't respect it, nor do you follow it. Plain and simple. Even more, you guys decided to insult the gospel, by following some other books, written by authors like Paul, John etc. When the Quran speaks about Christianity, it speaks about the gospel إنجيل which every Muslim should believe in. That has nothing to do with your current books, which you made into a new religion, that no Muslim respects.

You are simply a group of misguided people who deserves our pity, and we do pray for your guidance. Sadly, thousands of your people die every day, before being guided. Those are now beyond our help, or any help for that matter. The hope is still in the living among you.

 

Pray that God guides you to the truth, open your heart, then try reading the Quran again. Don't despair from Allah's mercy.

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[at] LifeinChrist ..As I understand salat are the obligatory prayers. Duas are personal prayers and can be offered at any time when one feels the need. I see the dua as along the same lines as Christians conversational prayers. Like a one to one. :)

 

If I am in error here I hope a Muslim member will correct me.

 

Blessings

 

In Arabic, there are 2 different words, but they are mistakenly translated as: prayer.

 

1- صلاة salah means a ritual prayer, consisting of at least 2 rak'at. A raka'a consists of [1] standing up, reciting chapter 1 then any number of verses from the Quran. Then [2] bowing, then [3] standng up again, then [4] prostrating, then [5] sitting on the ground, then [6] prostrating again. This is what constitutes one rak'a. A prayer can consists of 2, 3 or 4 rak'at. In that sense, salah is a ritual that follows a sequence of steps as taught to us by prophet Muhammad :s:

 

2- دعاء supplication: is where someone speaks to Allah, either to praise him, worhiping him 1 to 1, or asking him for guidance, forgiveness for him, or for the dead, or anyone, or help in earthly matters, like success in exams, healing his loved ones, healing all the ill, etc. I think this is the one close to your Christian prayers. Muslims do this all the time, before sleeping, on waking up, while driving, walking, before eating, after finishing a meal, before going to the bathroom, before ablution, before praying, during bowing and during prostrations, even before having a relation with the spouse, before going to a market or a mall for shopping, in fact anywhere anytime a Muslim is, there is a designated supplication for the occasions. The best of supplications are those quoted from the Quran, then those that prophet Muhammad taught us. We may also use our own words to make supplications. This دعاء is also translated wrongly as prayer. But it is more proper to call it supplication.

 

I hope that helps.

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But we do. We respect the gospel that you were commanded to follow. The problem is that you don't. You don't respect it, nor do you follow it. Plain and simple. Even more, you guys decided to insult the gospel, by following some other books, written by authors like Paul, John etc. When the Quran speaks about Christianity, it speaks about the gospel إنجيل which every Muslim should believe in. That has nothing to do with your current books, which you made into a new religion, that no Muslim respects.

You are simply a group of misguided people who deserves our pity, and we do pray for your guidance. Sadly, thousands of your people die every day, before being guided. Those are now beyond our help, or any help for that matter. The hope is still in the living among you.

 

Pray that God guides you to the truth, open your heart, then try reading the Quran again. Don't despair from Allah's mercy.

 

Is the Injeel contained in the Quran? What is the message of the Injeel (besides to believe in one God)?

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Is the Injeel contained in the Quran? What is the message of the Injeel (besides to believe in one God)?

 

The Injil is one of the four Islamic holy books the Quran records as revealed by God, the others being the Zabur (possibly the Psalms), the Tawrat (the Torah), and the Quran. The word Injil is derived from the Greek word Εὐαγγέλιον (euangelion)[1] or inAramaic ܐܘܢܓܠܝܘܢ (awongaleeyoon)[2] which means "good news" (Old Englishgōdspel; the term injil is also used by Christian Arabs for their gospels; e.g.Gospel of John, (Arabic: إنجيل يوحنا‎ ʾInǧīl Yūḥannā ) as well as Indonesian Christians; e.g. Injil Yohanes). Muslims believe this original Gospel to have been corrupted over time, and the teachings of Jesus lost and replaced with false teachings, often believed to be at the instigation of Paul the Apostle. Muslims believe that the four canonical gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and lost Gospels, such as that of Peter, contain fragments of Jesus' message, but that the majority of the original teaching has been corrupted or lost.

 

The word Injil occurs twelve times in the Quran and refers to the book given to Jesus. The Injil refers to the true Gospel, bestowed upon Jesus by God. The word Injil is used in the Quran, the Hadith and early Muslim documents to refer specifically to the revelations made by God to Jesus. We Muslims reject that Jesus or any other person wrote the Injil, instead crediting its authorship to God. Many Muslim scholars believe that the Gospel has undergone alteration, that the words and the meaning of the words have been distorted, with some passages suppressed and others added. The Islamic principle of the oneness (Tawhid) and wholeness of God's divinity means that in their view it is impossible for Jesus to be God incarnate or the Son of God, and that the worship of Jesus by Christians is due to later additions.

 

The Quran further describes the followers of the Gospel, that is the Christians, in a highly positive allegory, saying:

 

 

And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

—Quran, sura 5 (Al-Ma'ida), ayah 46

 


Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.

—Quran, sura 48 (Al-Fath), ayah 29
 

As to the Bible, the Bible is not and was never of the origins of the Words of Allah Almighty.  The Torah was sent to Moses, peace be upon him, and the Injil (Gospel, Glad Tidings, Good News) was sent to Jesus, peace be upon him, and not to the disciples, nor to deceivers who never even met Jesus in person such as Paul.

The reason why the "gospels" of the bible are named as such today is because they were named after the original Revelations that Jesus had.  So in other words, the real Gospel is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  Everything else is a fabrication on the mouths of Jesus and his disciples.  There is no such thing, in Islam, called "gospel of Matthew", "gospel of John", etc...  Now whether or not there is actually a gospel out there with the name "The Gospel of Jesus", in the scriptures outside the bible, that is something I don't know, and certainly, even if it does, we still couldn't be sure that it too didn't get corrupt.  The original teachings are simply lost from this earth.  Only the Glorious Quran is the original Word of Allah Almighty.  Nothing else stands.  All of the other books contain corruptions and lies in them.  That is why Allah Almighty Said:

"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption).  (The Noble Quran, 15:9)"

"It is upon Us to collect and compile it (i.e., the Quran) and to promulgate it:  (The Noble Quran, 75:17)"

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Thank you :) yes it does.. So are prayers for supplication the same as Dua?

 

What do you mean?

We have other types of prayers that you may be referring to, like the prayer of need, the prayer of istikhara (asking for guidance before making decissions in earthly matters). These are all same like usual prayers, consisting of 2 rak'at, then after finishing them, we do a duaa/supplication.

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The Gospel we follow is the same now as it ever was. The Gospel we respect is the same now as it ever was. The injil you have as part of your Quran if it is not the same as the Gospel we follow then it has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.

 

Do not waste your pity on me Dot :) you can by all means pray for my guidance as I will pray for yours. I do not fear death... Because I see it as purely another step towards what God has planned for us. Christians see that as an eternal life everlasting, Jesus has promised that on our behalf I put my faith in Him and His words for never a lie was found in his mouth. You can settle for the hope of Allahs mercy or you can settle for the surety of Gods love. Your choice.. ;)

 

Blessings

 

Again, you resort back to preaching.

Mair, and every Christian in this forum: please realize the reason why you have joined this forum. Based on where you stand, you are but one of two possibilities..

 

A- you are either 100% sure, beyond any flick of doubt that you are on the right path. In that case, coming here to discuss your faith and try to defend what you already are rock solid believe in, will serve no purpose. It would be a complete waste of time, because we Muslim are also 100% sure that you are in a complete mess with your miserable new religion, wrongly following anything but the right path.

 

B- you have a tiny little seed of doubt in your bible's weird ideas. In that case, do benefit from the time we dedicate to inform you of the truth that you need. In that case, there is also no need to defend your bible, because all your efforts will go to waste. Take advantage of time here, don't waste it.

 

So as you see, whether you're categorized under A or B, in both cases its a complete waste of time to preach your bible here.

A wise member would take advantage of their time here, and benefit from the info and advice that we offer you in good nature.

If however, you insist in replying to our info and advice with a repetitive mono-dialogue of preaching, preaching and more preaching, then I start asking myself: why is that person still here?

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I agree. Moreover, I am not being asked to judge the decrees of Allah in the Quran only in the Bible so it follows that Allah has given me the authority to judge, because I am a "person of the Book". Those who are not of the Book cannot judge me. Even Muhammad was told to consult the people of the book concerning his prophet hood. So, how much more should you listen to the people of the Book? Do you believe you are better to judge than Muhammad?

 

I will quote the verse again:

 

Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people. (5:68)

 

"That which has been revealed to you" means the Qur'an, i.e. what has been revealed to the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Now, read the verse again. It is saying that which is revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) from his Lord will surely increase many of the People of the Book in transgression and disbelief, as is obvious in your case. 

 

The Qur'an has not given you any authority to judge, 

 

The Qur'an does not tell the Prophet (pbuh) to consult the People of the Book. It says the following: So if you are in doubt concerning that which We have revealed unto you, then ask those who are reading the Book before you. Verily, the truth has come to you from your Lord. So be not of those who doubt (it) (10:94)

 

The Prophet (pbuh) was not in doubt in regards to what was revealed to him. He didn't ask the People of the Book about what was revealed to him. Furthermore, since you do not know Arabic, you should know that the article which has been translated as "So", links that verse to the previous verse(s). Do the previous verses talk about the deity of Jesus, peace be upon him, or any Christian matters? Secondly, the Prophet (pbuh) debated the Christians of Najran, and Allah refuted their claims - I am sure the Christians of Najran referred to their holy books. 

 

Furthemore, this is what Qur'an says:

 

(78. And verily, among them is a party who distort the Book with their tongues, so that you may think it is from the Book, but it is not from the Book, and they say: This is from Alla0h, but it is not from Allah؛ and they speak a lie against Alla0h while they know it.)

 

From Surah 3

 

This is similar to what was said in Surah 2:

 

"(79. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah,'' to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby."

 

The People of the Book distort the Book with their tongues and by their hands. 

 

"if anyone were to read the Quran from cover to cover without the biases and opinion of other influences, they would never come to the conclusion it states the Bible is corrupted, because it doesn't say that. I did just this.....Allah speaks of the Torah and Gospels as being the unchanged word from him"

 

It seems you haven't read the Qur'an from cover to cover - at least not with much thought. Had you actually read it, or read it carefully, you would have known that there is no mention of Gospels in the plural. Plus, it's obvious you do not read the Qur'an without biases. It's quite obvious reading anti-Islamic sites has affected your judgement. The fact that you are a Christian who believes in four canonical Gospels has affected your judgement. If you weren't affected, you wouldn't say something blatantly false like Allah talks of Gospels. 

 

"and that we people should stand on that and judge what is written therein. Allah is not speaking to those of the Quran, but to the people of the Book. So we are given authority to judge our Gospel."

 

No, you haven't been given the authority. 

 

This is what the Qur'an says:

 

 (65. And if only the People of the Scripture had believed and had Taqwa, We would indeed have expiated for them their sins and admitted them to Gardens of pleasure (in Paradise).) (66. And if only they had acted according to the Tawrah, the Injil, and what has (now) been sent down to them from their Lord (the Qur'an), they would surely have gotten provision from above them and from underneath their feet. (5:65)

 

The People of the Book should stand by the Torah, the Gospel and what has been sent down from their Lord, but as Allah said, that which has been sent to Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, increases many of the People of the Book in disbelief. The believers from the People of the Book follow the Prophet (pbuh). In the past, it included learned Jews such as 'Abdullah ibn Salam and others. A contemporary example would be sister ParadiseLost and other people who have converted.

 

19. Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except out of rivalry, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayat of Allah, then surely, Allah is Swift in reckoning.) (20. So if they dispute with you say: "I have submitted myself to Allah, and (so have) those who follow me.'' And say to those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and to those who are illiterate (Arab pagans): "Do you (also) submit yourselves'' If they do, they are rightly guided; but if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message; and Allah sees the servants.) (From Surah 3)

 

(6. Verily, those who disbelieve from among the People of the Scripture and idolators, will abide in the fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.) (Surah 96)

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I could add a category C. To your list. If I may be so bold.. Which is refute us

 

I didn't get that. What was your proposed category C again please?

 

 

 

I have not seen anyone thus far has been able to refute my Christianity to my satisfaction.

 

To get to that level of satisfaction, you should:

  • first toss away your books authored by Paul and company
  • second: realize that the original gospel no longer exist on earth
  • third: understand that you're following a new religion based on human authors, which reduce you to followers of a pagan religion, and that the door for you to step into the truth is wide open, right here, waiting for you all, to be able to truly love the real Messiah, prophet Jesus the son of Mary PBUH.

 

Without being able to take those steps, we cannot satisfy you.

 

 

prove to me why your Islamic path is right for me.

 

That would take pages over pages to reply, but you can read from our download library to which I have invited you before, but just let me summarize it here for you: Islam is not only the right path for you, its the only path for you.

 

 

Preferably by fair means, which means respecting all scripture. If the only way you can prove to me that the Quran is the final revelation from God is to destroy the Bible, then I don't see that a religion that can only win by default is a religion I would wish to be part of.

 

What do you want me to say? would I lie to you so that you like my words better?

I can't find anyway around it. Your bible is not the words of God. Only the gospel was, and it no longer exist anywhere on earth. It was not preserved by God, because you are supposed to step in to your final religion, Islam, which you stubbornly refuse. Suit yourselves then!

 

 

 

Explain to me why a religion so entrenched in Arab culture is applicable for all of mankind? Explain to me why I should follow a prophet from Arabia

 

Is that a touch of racism I'm smelling or what?

Would you rather like it if it was in Viking culture?, Celtic culture? or Volga culture perhaps?

You make it sound like we are in an ice cream shop, comparing flavors!

Its your Creator who decides the people, time, and place to send His message. But it was clear that all divine messages were sent to the middle east, the area that includes Egypt, Palestine and Arabia. God's wisdom is superior to us all, but perhaps its because this area is the center of the world, between east and west, which makes it a perfect starting point to spread the message accross.

 

 

Explain to me how I can have the same guarantee of eternal salvation that Christ Jesus promised me? 

 

OK. Let's assume that I have declared myself a new prophet, sent with a new religion called "The Pencil".

The Pencil religion promises all those who own a pencil, with complete forgiveness for all their sins, and going straight to eternal paradise, on one condition: that they keep their pencils sharpened all the time.

How is that for a religion, would yu embrace it? it promises you eternal salvation, and ask for nothing more than sharpening a lousy pencil. Could religions be more cozy and easy to follow?

 

Your reason for clinging to your new religion is one of a childish nature, I'm afraid. You want to get the toy which has it all, whistle, dance and sing, preferably with disco lights. Religions are not toys Mair, nor dresses, nor shoes, nor ice cream flavors either.

 

 

 

 

I think it's a shame that you feel the need to ban non muslims when you see there may be no hope of changing their mind.

 

Cool down Mair, nobody wants to ban you here. After all, you made less than 300 posts so far. You still have a long chance. Hopefully you don't waste it.

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It doesn’t say Quran. That is your interpretation.

 

Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people. (5:68)

 

What do you think the part in bold means? Be very, very careful when you answer this part. You are on the Internet, you have time to consider your response. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I beg to differ. It states (Sura 5:47) Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than those who rebel."

 

Yes, let the people of the Gospel judge by what was revealed therein and follow the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Stop judging by Gospels of dubious authorship.

 

"I beg to differ again. Why would Allah tell him to ask those reading the book before him? Who were they? They could only be the Christians!"

 

Only the Christians? That's just your Christian bias. The Jews read the Book.

 

"I beg to differ again. I have read that Mohammed would break out in cold sweats when he was supernaturally confronted the first time at Mount Hira. He thought he was possessed and was thinking of suicide. It was His wife Khadija was it not that encouraged him telling him that what he got was from Allah and that he is a prophet."

 

Well, understanding context is obviously not your strong point. That was in the beginning of his Prophethood while the verse Christians love to quote was revealed much after. The Prophet (pbuh) didn't consult Christians on the deity they ascribe to Jesus, peace be upon him. So, it's quite obvious you misunderstand the verse.

 

"Again this is very ambiguous, Allah is not speaking of the Bible text being corrupt he speaks of those change the meanings or give poor translations of the Bible. Because if it were possible that they change the text, then Allah contradicts himself when he said I sent down the torah and the gospels and no one can change the words of Allah. Again, Allah said no one can change his words... So if the Bible is corrupted and has changed words than that reflects on Allah saying he made a false statement."

 

Who said anything about translations? What happened to reading without bias? There is absolutely no mention of translations. There is no mention of meanings, either. That's again your biased mind at work. The only thing that is being reflected here is that you do not understand that the Words of Allah can mean decrees. None can change them. Allah has promised Paradise and Hell, and many other things. These things cannot be changed. However, the text of the Bible can and has been changed. There is manuscript evidence of this.

 

 

"Show me where the Quran states unequivocally the torah and gospel is corrupted. Show me where it means a corrupted torah and gospel! 

 

I have already shown you the verse: Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby. (2:79)

 

It is not ambiguous. It is uses the word "the Book", (the Scripture in this translation, which is the same thing as the Book). 

 

And when We gave unto Moses the Scripture and the criterion (of right and wrong), that ye might be led aright. (2:53)

 

We verily gave Moses the Scripture and placed with him his brother Aaron as henchman. 

 

And a generation hath succeeded them who inherited the Scripture. They grasp the goods of this low life (as the price of evil-doing) and say: It will be forgiven us. And if there came to them (again) the offer of the like, they would accept it (and would sin again). Hath not the covenant of the Scripture been taken on their behalf that they should not speak aught concerning Allah save the truth? And they have studied that which is therein. And the abode of the Hereafter is better, for those who ward off (evil). Have ye then no sense?

 

It's quite obvious to anybody who reads the Qur'an with an unbiased approach that the word "the Scripture" refers to Scripture. Connect the dots. People write the Scripture with their own hands and say it is from Allah to gain with it a miserable price. If you do not understand this, well, that's your problem. For your information, the Jews and Christians have more more than the Torah and the Gospel as books. One example is the Psalms. Thus, the Qur'an appropriately uses the word "the Scripture" since it covers the Torah, the Gospel, the Psalms, and the rest. 

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Dot.. I think you got it just fine.. ;)

 

No I didn't.

 

 

Obviously you have a lot of convincing before any concordance can be met on this.

 

That is why I keep suggesting that you read Islamic books yourself, from our download section. Islam is a complete religion, with far more aspects than anyone can summarize for you. If you really seek the truth (I trust you are) then you owe it to yourself to spend enough time reading about Islam.

 

 

Racism!!!! Careful Dot.. We are sinking into the personal again.

 

This was not an attack on you in person. Its a usual attack point from Christians to say why was the Quran in Arabic and such.. so I'm addressing that accusation.

 

 

You can start a new religion anytime you like.

 

You misunderstood my example. Of course I'm not starting any new religion. I was trying to say that we humans should follow a religion because it is the truth, not because it gives us better promises, like eternal salvation as you mentioned.  I understand that the concepts you find in your books are more comforting and promises you more than Islam promises. If you love Jesus, you're saved and forgiven! wow!.. easy deasy!.. But what good are promises if they are coming from false sources?

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