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911 Another Point Of View

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911 is done . Conclusions reached . murder of 3000 is murder of 3000 . We all know who did it an why .  Your point of view is yours to keep , so it is with most Americans, their point of view is theirs to keep  based on known established FACTS . WTC-7 is a non-issue , a smokescreen , a red herring for deniers and conspiracy theorists .

  Believe what you wish.  It's history . Revisionism only works in a vacuum of knowledge .

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WTC7 can no way collapse like that with out demolition, and demolition needs planning. 

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THAT is your point of view , NOT fact . The cause of the collapse is well known , understood and documented by FDNY , witnesses , and architects and engineers . There is no mystery here except that which conspiracy theorists dream up . All that occurred in NYC on 9/11 was caused by 11 Islamic fanatics and two  of 4 airliners intentionally hijacked and crashed into WTC 1 &  2 by those men  .

 You have trouble accepting that .

Edited by Aligarr

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[at]Aligarr,

 

I have a question for you, from fair and legal points of view, what evidences did G. W. Bush have, one or two days after 9/11, when he declared that it was made by such and such, what evidence?!

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The evidence is in by now , it is 13 years on . There were no doubts then , and there are none now . You may believe whatever you wish . The FACTS are in as to who committed the act and why .

 

You mention "fair and legal "  ? Was the attack fair and legal ? As to evidence , it is and has been known . Anything beyond that is merely a game of words on your part .

 You too have trouble accepting the FACTS and the TRUTH .

 

 The burden of proof is on YOU , if you wish to refute the conclusions as to who planned and executed the operation on 9/11 .

 You must provide proof that contradicts the facts .

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Actually, I say this as an American - one who was still non-Muslim when 9/11 occurred and automatically smelled a rat - and I speak along with many, many other countless Americans (from all faiths and backgrounds) in questioning the official version of 9/11 that was sold to us by the government. It has become something of a dogma, a big lie which repeated enough by government and corporate media is accepted as the gospel truth, but....honestly, what evidence is there really?

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Actually, I say this as an American - one who was still non-Muslim when 9/11 occurred and automatically smelled a rat - and I speak along with many, many other countless Americans (from all faiths and backgrounds) in questioning the official version of 9/11 that was sold to us by the government. It has become something of a dogma, a big lie which repeated enough by government and corporate media is accepted as the gospel truth, but....honestly, what evidence is there really?

 WTC 7 is clear that its demolition act, I can not say other wise or else I will be lying to my self. And I heard about a lot of americans converting to Islam after 911

 

But the thing is, WTC 7 is very very clear, no plane hit it !

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No plane hit it ?  No one said a plane hit it . You speak a half truth , The debris from the collapsing WTC Towers damaged WTC 7 to the point of its eventually collapse . What about WTC 4,5 ,? 

 

No plane hit it is a paltry excuse for just another conspiracy theory , by those in denial of FACTS .  Muslims have a hard time accepting the fact that Muslims ,albeit bad Muslims, committed a heinous act of mass murder .

 

And no , "many Americans " did not convert to Islam after 9/11 , no more than would have without 9/11 . Where did that story come from ?  

 

Of the conspiracy theorists ,there are many motives .To the anti-government groups who have always been suspicious of government , the  charlatans who have made money selling their books , to Arabs and Muslims who can not accept the truth about those who called themselves Muslims ,yet committed an act of mass slaughter upon the innocent . That is something Islam itself must deal with .

 The overwhelming majority of Americans know the  who and why of 9/11 .

 

But at the end of the day , it is the conspiracy theorist who must provide FACTS , to refute established Fact , not the other way around .

 

So for all your "feelings , suspicions , "those who smell a rat " etc, , the burden of proof is on you , in an intelligent argument , to provide PROOF /FACTS /NAMES etc., to refute what is known , established and what HAS and WILL go down in history .

 

I know it is hard to admit members of your religion would do such a thing  , but the truth is often sad , and many times shunned .But as for your opinions ? I respect them , they are yours, and no doubt you will hold them to the end . I however disagree totally , as do the facts .

 . As far as buildings collapsing ? That is in the realm of physics and cause and effect . If WTC 1 & 2 had not been hit with airliners and then collapsed , WTC 7 never would have been damaged , caught fire and collapsed . As did several other buildings in the WTC .

 Those who claim "controlled demolition ,have no idea of the preparation involved before hand , in order to accomplish that . That would not go unnoticed by the thousands  upon thousand of people using those buildings in the days even hours preceeding the attack .  Common Sense has also been a victim as far as these conspiracy theories go .

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No plane hit it ?  No one said a plane hit it . You speak a half truth , The debris from the collapsing WTC Towers damaged WTC 7 to the point of its eventually collapse . What about WTC 4,5 ,? 

 

No plane hit it is a paltry excuse for just another conspiracy theory , by those in denial of FACTS .  Muslims have a hard time accepting the fact that Muslims ,albeit bad Muslims, committed a heinous act of mass murder .

 

And no , "many Americans " did not convert to Islam after 9/11 , no more than would have without 9/11 . Where did that story come from ?  

 

Of the conspiracy theorists ,there are many motives .To the anti-government groups who have always been suspicious of government , the  charlatans who have made money selling their books , to Arabs and Muslims who can not accept the truth about those who called themselves Muslims ,yet committed an act of mass slaughter upon the innocent . That is something Islam itself must deal with .

 The overwhelming majority of Americans know the  who and why of 9/11 .

 

But at the end of the day , it is the conspiracy theorist who must provide FACTS , to refute established Fact , not the other way around .

 

So for all your "feelings , suspicions , "those who smell a rat " etc, , the burden of proof is on you , in an intelligent argument , to provide PROOF /FACTS /NAMES etc., to refute what is known , established and what HAS and WILL go down in history .

 

I know it is hard to admit members of your religion would do such a thing  , but the truth is often sad , and many times shunned .But as for your opinions ? I respect them , they are yours, and no doubt you will hold them to the end . I however disagree totally , as do the facts .

 . As far as buildings collapsing ? That is in the realm of physics and cause and effect . If WTC 1 & 2 had not been hit with airliners and then collapsed , WTC 7 never would have been damaged , caught fire and collapsed . As did several other buildings in the WTC .

 Those who claim "controlled demolition ,have no idea of the preparation involved before hand , in order to accomplish that . That would not go unnoticed by the thousands  upon thousand of people using those buildings in the days even hours preceeding the attack .  Common Sense has also been a victim as far as these conspiracy theories go .

So you are saying WTC7 collapsed due to damage caused by the collapsing other WTC's ? In the video there are other buildings next to it, wont you ask why they didnt collapse too ?

 

There are engineers in the video and they are talking about a free fall thats considered high school physics, they are not muslim either, so they are not defending members of my religion, they just want to know the truth

 

Report says it was "normal office fire" that caused the collapse of WTC7   

 

Its all in the first minute 

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I thought you theorized WTC7 was brought down by controlled demolition or some other clandestine manner .

 LOL...."a normal office fire " ? 

 

WTC 7 , and any and all damage caused to it were brought about by the damage and collapse of  WTC 1 & 2 . Whatever "engineers " you are citing in your explanation are uninformed in their respective diciplines or just plain liars .

 

 The entire event of 9/11 in NYC was videotaped from start to finish .+ In addition , thousands upon thousands of eyewitnesses .

 

 If there ever was a CRYSTAL CLEAR case of cause and effect completely observed  , this was it . WTC7 didn't just "happen to catch fire " , the fires that ensued and eventually caused it's collapse were due soley to being struck by debris from the collapsing WTC 1 & 2 Towers .

 

You can cite whatever bogus report you like , if it excludes the collapse of WTC 1 & 2 as the cause to any and all damage to WTC 7 , then it is simply a misinformed lie , which is perpetrated to push an agenda . The Science is in , and has been ,none in their respective fields of expertise , being engineers , architects , Physicists , FDNY , NYPD , all conclude unanimously as to the cause .

   

You can drag up all the charlatans you wish with their baseless claims , the issues have all been settled ...years ago , and to date there has been no rational , or valid refute .

 

Good luck in your search , but beware you have rejected visual observation , science and common sense  . Science is science regardless of personal emotions and agendas .

 

Indeed a complete unattached observer watching the events unfold from start to finish , without the aid of any scientific background or expertise , could clearly see with his own eyes and conclude  that all that occurred in NYC on that day was initiated by TWO airliners intentionally crashed into WTC 1 and WTC 2 .

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I thought you theorized WTC7 was brought down by controlled demolition or some other clandestine manner .

 LOL...."a normal office fire " ? 

 

WTC 7 , and any and all damage caused to it were brought about by the damage and collapse of  WTC 1 & 2 . Whatever "engineers " you are citing in your explanation are uninformed in their respective diciplines or just plain liars .

 

 The entire event of 9/11 in NYC was videotaped from start to finish .+ In addition , thousands upon thousands of eyewitnesses .

 

 If there ever was a CRYSTAL CLEAR case of cause and effect completely observed  , this was it . WTC7 didn't just "happen to catch fire " , the fires that ensued and eventually caused it's collapse were due soley to being struck by debris from the collapsing WTC 1 & 2 Towers .

 

You can cite whatever bogus report you like , if it excludes the collapse of WTC 1 & 2 as the cause to any and all damage to WTC 7 , then it is simply a misinformed lie , which is perpetrated to push an agenda . The Science is in , and has been ,none in their respective fields of expertise , being engineers , architects , Physicists , FDNY , NYPD , all conclude unanimously as to the cause .

   

You can drag up all the charlatans you wish with their baseless claims , the issues have all been settled ...years ago , and to date there has been no rational , or valid refute .

 

Good luck in your search , but beware you have rejected visual observation , science and common sense  . Science is science regardless of personal emotions and agendas .

 

Indeed a complete unattached observer watching the events unfold from start to finish , without the aid of any scientific background or expertise , could clearly see with his own eyes and conclude  that all that occurred in NYC on that day was initiated by TWO airliners intentionally crashed into WTC 1 and WTC 2 .

Then other buildings next to WTC7 should have collapsed also 

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You can't counter a rebuttal with another question . FIRST prove to me WTC 7 and its collapse was not related to the Towers collapsing .

 

I would also recommend a deeper investigation as per the numerous accredited Associations of Engineers , builders , architects , etc.

 

In addition , had you done that   you would also find that:

 

Several other buildings were  destroyed including The Marriot ,   The Duetsche Bank Building ,  The Verizon Blg . ,WTC 4,  WTC 5  Financial Center , WTC 6 US CUSTOM  Bldg , St.Nicholas Church , and others , ALL due to the collapse of WTC 1 & 2 .

 

 

 

 

 

You're not looking at the entire destruction which took  place . So according to conspiracy theorists there must have been " multiple plots " to destroy the several other buildings destroyed or severely damaged . Your information is not only incorrect , it is incomplete .  Not to mention baseless and unfounded .

Edited by Aligarr

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These are some buildings that were demolished that same way. And also the engineers explained it well in the video posted earlier 

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Whose engineers ? The one you picked ? Don't take my word for it check out Wikipedia , or any reputable architectural , engineering or science journals .

 Keep on running to your conspiracy theorists and you'll never know the truth .

 

 LOL....but then again  do you want the truth ? I think not . Yu can't accept the truth , after all its been 13 years and you're still grasping for straws .

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Whose engineers ? The one you picked ? Don't take my word for it check out Wikipedia , or any reputable architectural , engineering or science journals .

 Keep on running to your conspiracy theorists and you'll never know the truth .

 

 LOL....but then again  do you want the truth ? I think not . Yu can't accept the truth , after all its been 13 years and you're still grasping for straws .

 

I didn't pick any, these people are not even muslims to start with, they are looking for truth. Its very clear that WTC7 was controlled demolition with a free fall. or else every building on the same block would collapse the same way, wish clearly didn't happen. Do you have video of any other building ? They must have rerecorded it, but maybe not.

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As I said before , there are many agendas involved amongst the conspiracy theorists . And by no means are they all agendas held by just muslims .

Each building has it's own unique architecture . It has been made quite clear why the WTC Towers collapsed the way they did . Again your investigations incomplete .

Edited by Aligarr

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until I see something that makes sense, this is for sure a free fall of controlled demolition 

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"For sure " ....that sounds pretty funny . NOW you are sure ?   First off , you can

not present a logical or reasonable argument for a number of reasons . You do not acknowledge that the buildings destroyed after the collapse of WTC !  & 2  were in fact at different proximities from the flying debris from the Towers . You do not acknowledge that each of those buildings were not only damaged in different ways but their construction  was of varied design , shape and heights .

 

 LOLOLO...."for sure " you say ? Sure of what ? The machinations of your mind and that of fellow conspiracy theorists ?  Your conclusions rest on misinformation , and bad science .If those are  your standards so be it .You will remain in basic ignorance as to the events of that day . This may satisfy your personal needs and agenda whatever they may be , but you will remain blinded to facts .

   If , rather than lazily  accepting that which is pleasing to your ear , and the conclusions of amateurs and charlatans  , you engaged in intelligent investigation , you would see the holes in your theories .

 Somehow I don't think that is going to happen though .You are too steeped in either religion or ideology to see clearly . Science, logic and physics engages neither , so that leaves you at a great deficit in understanding .

 

At any rate most Americans and educated people around the world agree that the scenario I described is the same as they have seen and reasoned themselves , and that those like you are a minority exception .As for any "study " you may cite , I'm sure I can find such studies , that the world is flat and the moon landings were phony . Those are the things in the realm of your limited understanding . But you have placed your own limits .You can't blame anyone else for that.

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It's a bit like the MMR vaccine "controversy".

One man asserts that it causes autism. Many people who have a tendency to distrust any information from authority and accept conspiracy theories say "Ah, we knew they were trying to poison us!"

After many years and many real studies by real medical experts and research scientists (many of whom have children who have had the MMR on the basis of their findings) conclude that the evidence was faulty.

However, there are still many people saying that all the research is part of the conspiracy and still insist that it is dangerous, mostly on the basis of internet sites and YouTube videos. The problem with these people getting a balanced view is that scientific research is not posted on YouTube while conspiracy theories are. Most of the real research is contained in long, technical papers which are hard work to read, even for the technically qualified. In the meantime, a measles epidemic breaks out and children die because these idiots did not get their children vaccinated. There can be real-world consequences of watching made-up stuff on YouTube!

 

I am always a little sceptical of anything that contains "THE TRUTH!!!!!" or "WHAT THEY DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW!!!!" in the title. Well researched data does not need caps or excessive punctuation.

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There should be a lot of videos out there for buildings that collapse by controlled demolition, Bring some and post here and lets see the difference 

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There should be a lot of videos out there for buildings that collapse by controlled demolition, Bring some and post here and lets see the difference 

You misunterstood my point.

YouTube videos are not the place to obtain the results of detailed research on technical subjects. The correct place is the technical reports by qualified bodies.

Rather than bringing videos, you should be bringing links to the scientific papers which describe how the buildings were brought down by controlled demolition. I'm assuming that there are some, otherwise it is mere speculation.

 

It saddens me that so many people today rely only on YouTube videos and personal blogs for evidence on important and often highly technical subjects. Moreover, many people will subsequently dismiss the well researched, technical reports in favour of an unattributed YouTube video because it does not confirm their required position.

To quote Pope "A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing". (Alexander, that is, not The!)

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You misunterstood my point.

YouTube videos are not the place to obtain the results of detailed research on technical subjects. The correct place is the technical reports by qualified bodies.

Rather than bringing videos, you should be bringing links to the scientific papers which describe how the buildings were brought down by controlled demolition. I'm assuming that there are some, otherwise it is mere speculation.

 

It saddens me that so many people today rely only on YouTube videos and personal blogs for evidence on important and often highly technical subjects. Moreover, many people will subsequently dismiss the well researched, technical reports in favour of an unattributed YouTube video because it does not confirm their required position.

To quote Pope "A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing". (Alexander, that is, not The!)

You have a point there for sure, technical should say their opinion for sure, and that;s what some of them did on the website I posted when I started the thread, also there;s a few of them talking in the first couple of minutes in the video on the same website. Did you watch what they said ?

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You have a point there for sure, technical should say their opinion for sure, and that;s what some of them did on the website I posted when I started the thread, also there;s a few of them talking in the first couple of minutes in the video on the same website. Did you watch what they said ?

To repeat myself, show the technical, peer reviewed papers which show that explosives were used. Not videos of people saying what they think happened.

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