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Gods Covenants

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Could I just ask please, do muslims have a covenant with God? Or do they follow one of the Bible ones? If so which one do they follow?

 

Where can I find information on it? Quran or hadiths? If there is a thread here on this topic already? If so I wonder if someone could kindly point it out to me.

 

I'm not sure I have the same facilities on my device I use an iPad not PC, I can't see video links and not sure how you go about searching for past stuff.

 

Thanks

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Could I just ask please, do muslims have a covenant with God? Or do they follow one of the Bible ones? If so which one do they follow?

 

Where can I find information on it? Quran or hadiths? If there is a thread here on this topic already? If so I wonder if someone could kindly point it out to me.

 

I'm not sure I have the same facilities on my device I use an iPad not PC, I can't see video links and not sure how you go about searching for past stuff.

 

Thanks

 

God talk about covenant in quran:

 

2:83 Remember, when We made a covenant with the people of israel and said: "Worship no one but God, and be good to your parents and your kin, and to orphans and the needy, and speak of goodness to men; observe your devotional obligations, and give zakat (the due share of your wealth for the welfare of others)," you went back (on your word), except only a few, and paid no heed.

 

84 And when We made a covenant with you not to shed your blood and not to expel one another from your homes, you agreed and were all witnesses.

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Yes, but which Covenant? God made many covenants with the children of israel. Is there any more than what you just said? It's not much to go on really.

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Yes, but which Covenant? God made many covenants with the children of israel. Is there any more than what you just said? It's not much to go on really.

 

i know only what God told us in the quran.

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So what suras are they? Is that all there is in the Quran about the covenant or are there other suras? From what I find the Quran is not like chronological and same or similar things are repeated in different suras.

 

Thanks for your info tho Andalusi.

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So what suras are they? Is that all there is in the Quran about the covenant or are there other suras? From what I find the Quran is not like chronological and same or similar things are repeated in different suras.

 

Thanks for your info tho Andalusi.

 

it is in Sura 2, verses 83 and 84

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hi Andalusi, or anyone else who feels they can shed some light on this topic. I have been looking for information on Gods covenants with regards to the Quran. I found this site

 

https://sites.google.com/site/causeofgod/home/papers/covenant-in-the-quran

 

Could someone give me a thumbs up or down as to how reliable you think the information is? Thank you

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hi Andalusi, or anyone else who feels they can shed some light on this topic. I have been looking for information on Gods covenants with regards to the Quran. I found this site

 

https://sites.google.com/site/causeofgod/home/papers/covenant-in-the-quran

 

Could someone give me a thumbs up or down as to how reliable you think the information is? Thank you

 

that is not good site.

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Why not? Can you recommend a source of information about this topic. Thanks

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Why not? Can you recommend a source of information about this topic. Thanks

 

beacuse i can immediatelly detect if it is ok site about Islam or not, they used shia-Islam , and shia Islam is not Islam it is own relgion for itself, wich has nothing to do with Islam. 

 

here is another verse about covenant

 

God says:

2.40. O Children of israel! Remember My favor that I bestowed upon you, and fulfill My covenant (which I made with you through your Prophets), so that I fulfill your covenant, and of Me alone be in awe and fear (in awareness of My Power and of your being My servants).

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Our covenant with Allah is simple. It is to believe Him and obey Him. 

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Our covenant with Allah is simple. It is to believe Him and obey Him. 

Thank you Younes, but I would like to know where I can get further information on this. As to the terms etc. hadiths or other sources that are reliable.

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Thank you Younes, but I would like to know where I can get further information on this. As to the terms etc. hadiths or other sources that are reliable.

 

The Qur'an and the Hadiths have the details on what we have to do. Both sources also tell us what is the reward for obeying, i.e. Paradise. 

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Andalusi kindly pointed me in the right direction of the suras above, but they do not give much information. I would not know where to start checking hadiths, could you maybe make a few suggestions as to which hadiths I may find something in and the most reliable. If there isn't any further info to be had and you've just kind of adopted into one of the old Jewish covenants then fair enough. I was just wanting more info.

 

Thanks anyway for your time

Edited by Tunisia

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We're not part of a Jewish covenant. Our covenant with Allah is to obey Him. It doesn't get much simpler than that. What obedience entails is described in the Qur'an. Among other things it entails praying, fasting, giving Zakah, etc.  

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We're not part of a Jewish covenant. Our covenant with Allah is to obey Him. It doesn't get much simpler than that. What obedience entails is described in the Qur'an. Among other things it entails praying, fasting, giving Zakah, etc.  

Ok then thanks Younes, so are these suras the only ones in the Quran that address the subject of a covenant? Please understand this is very important for me as one who is under the new covenant with God. I can't see where in Islam God has made a covenant with muslims. The suras below mention the people of israel and from that I can't see where you are getting a different covenant other than the ones that were made with the Jewish people.

 

2:83 Remember, when We made a covenant with the people of israel and said: "Worship no one but God, and be good to your parents and your kin, and to orphans and the needy, and speak of goodness to men; observe your devotional obligations, and give zakat (the due share of your wealth for the welfare of others)," you went back (on your word), except only a few, and paid no heed.

 

84 And when We made a covenant with you not to shed your blood and not to expel one another from your homes, you agreed and were all witnesses.

 

2.40. O Children of israel! Remember My favor that I bestowed upon you, and fulfill My covenant (which I made with you through your Prophets), so that I fulfill your covenant, and of Me alone be in awe and fear (in awareness of My Power and of your being My servants).

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You forgot the part where the israelis broke it.  Also if you read the Bible you will find that it is Paul that claims we live in an age of a new covenant.  Isa (pbuh) never made such a claim.  For Islam the covenant is basically if we worship him with no partners and try to live a righteous life we will be rewarded according to our actions.  It is mentioned in numerous ways throughout the Qur'an.  I cannot say that it is specifically said, covenant.  Covenant means promise though and there are many promises from Allah (swt) in the Qur'an.... numerous. 

 

What you should try when trying to get the more knowledgeable brothers (or sisters) on here to respond is to think about the wording you are using.  They might not be familiar with the term covenant.

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No, those aren't the only verses that use the word "covenant". You can search for more here: http://searchquran.com/searchQ.php?q_toggle=English&q=covenant&Submit=+&searchFor=TRANS&mod=search

 

The Arabic in those Surahs use the word 'Ahd or Mithaq, which means an agreement. Then there's another word W'ad, which means promise:

 

http://searchquran.com/searchQ.php?q_toggle=English&q=promise&Submit=+&searchFor=TRANS&mod=search

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You forgot the part where the israelis broke it.  Also if you read the Bible you will find that it is Paul that claims we live in an age of a new covenant.  Isa (pbuh) never made such a claim.  For Islam the covenant is basically if we worship him with no partners and try to live a righteous life we will be rewarded according to our actions.  It is mentioned in numerous ways throughout the Qur'an.  I cannot say that it is specifically said, covenant.  Covenant means promise though and there are many promises from Allah (swt) in the Qur'an.... numerous. 

 

What you should try when trying to get the more knowledgeable brothers (or sisters) on here to respond is to think about the wording you are using.  They might not be familiar with the term covenant.

No I didn't forget anything, I just didn't mention it because it bears no relation to my query, which was, do muslims have a covenant with God? God made many covenants with people throughout the Bible, yet as I see it muslims see themselves following Gods covenant with Abraham, children of israel through Isaac, although Ishmael was blessed by God the covenant was not through his line. Jeremiah refers to the new covenant, which refers to the covenant with the messiah. Covenants and promises differ slightly which I'm sure you know. I use the term covenant to distinguish the difference between that of promise, if muslims don't understand the term Covenant then maybe that's because it isn't mentioned whereas promise is. As I said they are different. Anyway it's not a problem I was just curious.

 

 

Jeremiah 31:31-34

 

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and teach his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

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No, those aren't the only verses that use the word "covenant". You can search for more here: http://searchquran.com/searchQ.php?q_toggle=English&q=covenant&Submit=+&searchFor=TRANS&mod=search

 

The Arabic in those Surahs use the word 'Ahd or Mithaq, which means an agreement. Then there's another word W'ad, which means promise:

 

http://searchquran.com/searchQ.php?q_toggle=English&q=promise&Submit=+&searchFor=TRANS&mod=search

Thanks for these links Younes, they are quite interesting and give me more information than I've had to date:) maybe it's how the Quran interprets the word covenant. It does seem that the word covenant when used in the Quran on most occasions it refers to covenants made previously with Biblical prophets, such as Moses in the one below.

 

Whenever a scourge befell them, they said, O Musa, pray for us to your Lord by the covenant He has made with you. If you remove the scourge from us, we will truly believe in you, and will send the children of Isra‘il with you.

 

The one below also seems to imply it speaks of previous scriptures and other prophets.

 

When Allah made the prophets enter into a covenant: (say) :If I give you a book and wisdom, then comes to you a messenger verifying what is with you, you shall have to believe in him, and you shall have to support him. He said, :Do you affirm and accept my covenant in this respect? They said, :We affirm. He said, :Then, bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses.

 

This one is the nearest I can see might refer to muslims, yet, where is the detail? A covenant has terms and conditions which God makes with man and should not be broken. We have sharing wealth, freeing slaves, pays Zakah and being truthful. I was thinking muslims follow gods covenant with Abraham because of the circumcision issue, as that was a condition of that particular covenant. There is nothing about that in any of the references to your Quran covenants. So is that requirement purely cultural?

 

Righteousness is not (merely) that you turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteousness is that one believes in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Book and the Prophets, and gives wealth, despite (his) love for it, to relatives, and to orphans, the helpless, the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and (spends) in (freeing) slaves and observes the Salah (prayers) and pays Zakah___and (the act of) those who fulfill their covenant when they enter into a covenant, and, of course, those who are patient in hardship and suffering and when in battle! Those are the ones who are truthful, and those are the God-fearing.

 

As I said promises are slightly different than covenants, and it's the covenant issue I was more interested in. Thanks for your input and taking the time to post the links for me. :)

Edited by Tunisia

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The covenant that Muslims have with Allah is this: believe in Allah, obey Him and do deeds, and you will enter Paradise. As I said, the Qur'an has details. For example, we are not to drink alcohol, eat pork, etc. Those are part of the covenant. I am not going to list everything.

 

- The word covenant is not used only in reference to the previous Prophets, peace be upon them

 

- The verse you have quoted deals with the covenant took from the Prophets, peace be upon them

 

I will let you on a secret. The covenant Allah has taken from people starting from the first Prophet Adam, peace be upon him, until the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the same - believe in Allah, obey Him and you will enter Paradise. However, the details of the covenant are a bit different for every generation. For example, the Jews were to follow the Torah, which Moses, peace be upon him, brought. The Torah contained different rules than what israel/Jacob, peace be upon him, followed. The Qur'an contains different rules than the Torah. However, the underlying covenant is the same - believe in Allah, obey Him and you will enter Paradise. If you don't, you will enter Hell. 

 

I can say that circumcision is not a sign of a covenant for Muslims, like it is in the Bible for Jews. However, it is an established Sunnah, a prophetic practice, which the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, encouraged us to follow.. 

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The covenant that Muslims have with Allah is this: believe in Allah, obey Him and do deeds, and you will enter Paradise. As I said, the Qur'an has details. For example, we are not to drink alcohol, eat pork, etc. Those are part of the covenant. I am not going to list everything.

 

- The word covenant is not used only in reference to the previous Prophets, peace be upon them

 

- The verse you have quoted deals with the covenant took from the Prophets, peace be upon them

 

I will let you on a secret. The covenant Allah has taken from people starting from the first Prophet Adam, peace be upon him, until the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the same - believe in Allah, obey Him and you will enter Paradise. However, the details of the covenant are a bit different for every generation. For example, the Jews were to follow the Torah, which Moses, peace be upon him, brought. The Torah contained different rules than what israel/Jacob, peace be upon him, followed. The Qur'an contains different rules than the Torah. However, the underlying covenant is the same - believe in Allah, obey Him and you will enter Paradise. If you don't, you will enter Hell. 

 

I can say that circumcision is not a sign of a covenant for Muslims, like it is in the Bible for Jews. However, it is an established Sunnah, a prophetic practice, which the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, encouraged us to follow.. 

First off Younes, there really no need to be patronising. The Edenic covenant or the covenant of works made between God and Adam had nothing to do with entering paradise on condition of worshipping God. Adam already resided in Paradise or as near to it, it was his breaking the covenant that got him expelled from the same to live his life on earth. The conditions were different with successive covenants. At least seven major ones, the last ending with the Covenant of Grace, through Jesus. Obviously you as a Muslim will not consider yourself part of that.

 

Anyway you stick to the conditions of what you see as your covenant which seems to be bits made up of all the previous covenants (except the final one) and I'll stick to the conditions on mine. :) my curiosity on the matter has been satisfied. I thank you for your time. :)

 

Peace to you.

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Again I have yet to read any Bible where Jesus (pbuh) says that we are in a new covenant. 

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Again I have yet to read any Bible where Jesus (pbuh) says that we are in a new covenant. 

Matthew 26:26-28

 

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, ‘Take and eat; this is my body.’

 

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

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On one hand I have to give you credit as that is a good response.  On the other hand I have to respectfully disagree on the interpretation of this.  It never says there is a new covenant but simply the covenant.  Now, of course, a lot of this goes back to symbology and is never meant to be taken literally.  To me, this is about Jesus (pbuh) telling them to follow him as the drinking of blood was a well-known practiced tradition. 

 

Now, of course, the argument that I have presented has issue, admittedly.  The primary problem comes into how much credit one gives to the various books of the Bible.  I have read the history of the traditional cannon and the books therein and thus have issue concerning certain things in the New Testament.  A lot of these problems arise after realizing the pagan indications through what is taught in the more traditional Christian doctrine and the manner in which it conflicts with both ancient Judaism and modern Judaism.  When I was struggling back and forth between Christianity and Islam I evaluated much of this. 

 

Ultimately I decided the most objective way to look at it was to go back to the beginning (after self realizing what it was that I believed personally).  Upon revisiting the Old Testament and then going back to numerous sites that explain different parts of the Old Testament I realized that much of the Christian belief contradicted this.  The primary things that contradicted was the idea of original sin, in the heriditary sense, and a human sacrifice god or otherwise.

 

But, as one person on here already said it is ultimately between the individual and their maker.  We will all realize the answers when we die, regardless of what they might be.  The Qur'an teaches us that no one can be forced into religion and to do so is to make shirk.

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