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fathi

Shariah Law Vs Myth

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as salaam alaiykum,

 

I think that there should be a discussion about what shariah law is.  I do not, by any means, try to claim myself as an expert on shariah law.  What I do think, though, is that there should be a discussion on what sharia is versus what is being practiced in so called Islamic countries run by secularists

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PropellerAds

:sl: ,

 

Begin with the economy aspect should be easier rather than politic.

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What I do think, though, is that there should be a discussion on what sharia is versus what is being practiced in so called Islamic countries run by secularists

If a country is run by secularists, by definition it cannot be Islamic nor practice Sharia. Secular means the removal of the influence of religion from the legislature, executive and judiciary.

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Touche my friend but many of those who run Islamic countries are simply using the pretense of "Islam" in order to remain in charge.  For example many will be quick to stone a woman for adultery but will leave out the man altogether and requires no witness.  This is inaccurate.  The Qur'an allows for stoning for adultery but it is near impossible to carry out as the action of sex between the two parties has to be witnessed by four separate individuals.  Normally there are not four people around watching someone having sex.

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I implore any of the brothers on here that can get the link button to actually work appropriately to post information about sharia and what it actually teaches as I cannot and Dot (the admin) wants to call me a liar when I tell him as much

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Lol, another thing that needs to be understood about sharia is that sharia does not teach that women cannot be educated, quite the opposite.  Their is a law that women need an escort when going out but in context an educated person can quickly see this does not refer to things like going to the store like they do in Saudi Arabia, it is talking about traveling.  I will cover more later but this is sufficient for now.  Bit by bit

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Touche my friend but many of those who run Islamic countries are simply using the pretense of "Islam" in order to remain in charge.  For example many will be quick to stone a woman for adultery but will leave out the man altogether and requires no witness.  This is inaccurate.  The Qur'an allows for stoning for adultery but it is near impossible to carry out as the action of sex between the two parties has to be witnessed by four separate individuals.  Normally there are not four people around watching someone having sex.

Agree completely. It is much the same with any system of government. No matter how good it is on paper, it will always suffer from the vagaries of human nature. Those who desire power are those least suited to wield it. "Scum always rises" is a simpler way of putting it.

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Exactly.  Another thing about sharia that people do not realize is that sharia is already practiced in this country. See those Muslims making salah? That is part of sharia.  The first and most important source for sharia is the Qur'an.  If it contradicts the Qur'an then it needs to be reevaluated. 

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. . . . .  Their is a law that women need an escort when going out but in context an educated person can quickly see this does not refer to things like going to the store like they do in Saudi Arabia, it is talking about traveling. 

I will cover more later but this is sufficient for now.  Bit by bit

"that women need an escort when going out" if enforced strictly, can reduce the number of pilgrim, I don't think it is what the saudi wish because it can make their income lesser.

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Oh yes. I just remember it now. Do we have a link to that report?

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Why ¿?

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Nigeria suspends Hajj flights over women deportation

27 September 2012 Last updated at 17:06

Nigeria has suspended all Hajj flights to Saudi Arabia after the authorities there deported more than 170 women who had arrived without a male escort.

About 1,000 Nigerian women intending to make the Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca have been detained since Sunday.

A Nigerian government delegation is going to Saudi Arabia to complain.

There has been an understanding in the past that Nigerian women are exempt from travelling with a male relative - a requirement for women on the Hajj.

Nigerian diplomats say the agreement between the National Hajj Commission of Nigeria and the Saudi authorities allows visas to be issued for Nigerian women going to Mecca as long as they are accompanied by Hajj committee officials.

. . . . .

We're not happy about the situation -

other than the Hajj we would not be

interested in coming back to Saudi

Arabia but unfortunately it is the holy

land to us Muslims

Bilkisu Nasidi, Would-be Nigerian Hajj

pilgrim

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19745203

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Ten facts about Sharia law (Islamic law)

The aim of the Shari'ah is to preserve society in a form which is healthy and fruitful for the inhabitants on earth. Shari'ah helps mankind live the way the creator has decreed us to live, and to ease our worship to Allah (SWT).

In (Western) society, there is a race to maintain a basic lifestyle, to provide food, shelter and clothing for you or your family, only to meet the basic necessities. You will see this same behaviour anywhere where the Shari ah is not implemented. To provide even the most basic commodities such as electricity, gas and water it is a hassle and something western democracy has failed to give or provide us even till today, this is why we find the population resorting to crime, effectively leading to mass corruption and depression.

Is it in the governments interest to serve God (Allah) or the political elite? With broken families, high rape, paedophilia, massive percentages of alcohol related diseases and deaths, homelessness, obesity. These statistics reflect the success of a government which rules by man made law and it paints a picture that tells us the government only serve the interests of the political elite, including big corporations, banks and man's desires.

Let us look to what the Shari'ah offers us, and lets see what Allah (SWT) has legislated for mankind. Ultimately, if any book is divine, it will detail all affairs for man and tell us how to deal with today's problems.

1. Non-Muslims can live inside the Islamic State.

One of the most misunderstood matters is the ruling on non-muslims inside an Islamic state. It is believed that the state would only allow a pure Muslims population, however this is incorrect and commonly used by non-muslims to attack the Shari'ah. Non-Muslims can choose to live in the state if they pay the 'Jiziyaa' (the closes translation for this word is 'tax'). Once they do so, they are known as the dhimmi, and their life and honour immediately has sanctity and are protected by the state.

The Khaleefah (Caliph) will go to great lengths to protect the dhimmi. An example, if they (the dhimmi) are being harassed by another tribe, the Islamic state will judge the situation and fight (even physically with the Muslim armies) to defend them.


2. The Non-Muslim citizen (Dhimmi) - including Muslims - get rights to free food, clothing and shelter provided by the state by default.

The benefits offered to the dhimmi are clear. By default they are entitled to free housing, food, gas and clothing without any ambiguity. Some scholars go further and say electricity are also deemed as necessities in today's day and age. If these opinion's are adopted by the Khaleefah's (Caliphs) decision council, these too will be provided free to the dhimmi.

The Khaleefah will appoint a director for this department which will ensure providing the necessary energy to the whole country ranging from coal, oil, electricity etc.


“The son of Adam has no better right than that he would have a house wherein he may live and a piece of cloth whereby he may hide his nakedness and a piece of bread and some water.” [Tirmidhi]


3. Fee's such as council tax, road tax etc. will be abolished.

The Islamic state will abolish all fiscal fees and rates, water and sewage rates, school fees, import and export licences and fees, council rates, ground rent, road tax and fiscal stamps. According to shari‘ah, these services are the duty of the state; the state in Islam is a guardian and not a collection of fees and rates.

One of its main functions is to secure the essential needs of all its subjects and to enable each individual to acquire his luxuries according to his ability.


4. The 'Jiziyaa' (Non-muslim tax) is lower than the 'Zakat' (Muslim tax).

The Jizyaa, a tax for non-muslim citizens of the state, is lower than the Muslim tax - Zakat (Obligatory upon all muslims). Muslims, must also pay the Zakat, both the Jiziyaa and Zakat go to the Islamic treasury and will be utilized on areas where the Islamic authority sees fit.


5. Earth's resources cannot be privatised and sold at extortionate prices.

Natural resources - like oil, coal and gas - will not be sold at ridiculous prices to the population. Today we see the true face of dollar guzzling greedy cooperates as they continue to sell energy at unaffordable prices. The common people are powerless as energy prices rise month on month, while energy companies profits increase so do their pockets.

Today's government has done little to help its people, and with all this it continues to cut public expenditure, family support benefits (child benefits, housing benefits etc.) and continues to squeeze public spending even more. No matter who, labour, conservative or liberal democrats. You will never find justice in man made law since these same problems are riddled in every country where Shari'ah is absent.


6. Poverty will be eradicated.

When Islam was implemented on state level in parts of the African continent (Ethiopia and Sudan), it slowly extinguished poverty. People had the basics of food, clothing and shelter provided to them by the Islamic state, and they had the opportunity to prosper as human beings.

Since the removal of Islam from those lands we witness corruption, genocide and the alleviation of poverty once again. Charity is embedded within Islam and cannot be removed, unlike in the west it is something every Muslim must practice by necessity. We see a lot of people with soft hearts, kindness and who recognise the problem - without to undermine their concern - the help and assistance they provide are always temporary and never permanent. The corruption returns and sometimes in other forms such as prostitution, violence and drugs.

To solve these problems, you will need to remove the root issue / problem which has plagued poor areas for decades, the cure will only come with the removal of all man made laws and systems such as democracy, then the implementation of the Shari'ah.


“If poverty was a man, I would kill him.” [Narrated by Umar Ibn Al-Khataab.]


7. Society ills (such as gambling, prostitution, drugs and paedophilia etc) will be extinguished.

Islam prohibits diseases pushed under the declaration of ‘freedom’ such as pornography, paedophilia, bestiality, gambling, drugs and alcohol which seek to exploit and enslave people to their instincts and desires resulting in rising crime rates and the anarchy which is prevalent today in western society. The way of life in Islam ensures the fulfilment of everyone’s right to basic food which will prevent people from resorting to illicit acts. Unlike capitalism, Islam prohibits gambling and interest which exploit the poor to the advantage of the rich.

As a result of freedom and democracy we have seen the most absurd laws. To mention one or two, in the state of Missouri bestiality (the marriage between humans and animals) is allowed and in America paedophiles have formed an organization called NAMBLA (North American Men And Boys Lovers Association) allowing paedophiles to perform horrendous acts with children. Similarly, under 'freedom' a group of people have begun sacrifices and mutilation for the sake of Satan, this even involves the kidnapping of innocent life to fulfil these satanic rituals.


8. Education is free to ALL citizens

The State would ensure the provision of free education to every male and female at both primary and secondary levels, the state would also endeavour to provide free education to everyone at university level. This is so because providing every single citizen of the state with the education he or she needs in all walks of life is an essential necessity, therefore it is the Stateis duty to provide it (especially now that the primary and secondary education have become basic necessities rather than luxuries). It is therefore an obligation upon the state to ensure that every individual is educated to such levels. As for the higher studies, some of these are also a necessity, such as medicine and study of the mining industry for instance, and the state should provide such education; whereas what is considered to be non essential studies such as literature, the state should provide such studies if funds were available.

But today education in Britain are merely business avenues for the rich and powerful, recent events have proven this. With the increase of student tuition fees and removal of tuition caps it is made it more apparent the degree will cost a lot more than it has previously. The quality of the degree has also become questionable, it all boils down and points back to the fundamental failure of the system of (man made) democracy.

The Khilafah state would ensure provision of free education to every male and female (Muslim and non-Muslim) at both primary and secondary levels and would endeavour to provide free education to everyone at university level. Education at higher levels would be encouraged and the state would help in funding those who wish to do so as much as possible.


9. The punishment system (Judicial system) in Islam is superior than any man made system.

The injustice is all too apparent in countries where man made law is dominant. We have seen many cases in the past, where a paedophile or rapist receives a lower sentence than someone who has convicted a crime like robbery etc. A favourite theme for the Orientalists is to attack Islam's punishment system, but when we study in context the punishments, you will immediately see the justice of Islam, and in comparison to man made law it is far superior.

A U.S. Justice Department report released on November 30 2006 showed that a record 7 million people -- or one in every 32 American adults -- were behind bars, on probation or on parole at the end of last year. Of the total, 2.2 million were in prison or jail.

Is democracy really the way forward? We have seen hundreds ready to defend democracy but is it really worth defending? The statistics speak for themselves! If democracy was indeed a 'superior' way of life why so many problems?

693px-US_incarceration_timeline-clean.sv
Result of Democracy (US Incarceration statistics)

Furthermore, with 3,256 on death row (In the USA alone) democracy has show it does practice and implement the death penalty.

The Islamic Judicial system is far better to any system man has ever devised in history. The strictness concerning evidence has meant that only around 200 people ever had their hands cut in 1300 years of Islamic Rule and the incidences of theft were very low. The Islamic system allows a person aggrieved of a crime the right to forgive the accused or to demand compensation for certain crimes.

A person has the right to take the ruler to court and even remove him if he transgresses against the Shari’ah. There are four categories of punishment in Islam which protect the rights of Allah, of the Individual, of the Community and of the State. A persons fate is not left to the whims and prejudices of 12 fallible people but in the hands of a qualified judge. In addition Islamic punishments are executed without delay or hesitation and torture is prohibited and haraam for any Muslim to practice.


10. Divine human rights VS Man-made human rights.

If we compare the so-called ‘human rights’ which are enshrined within the Declaration of Human Rights with the Divine Rights given to all human beings by our creator Allah (SWT) through his final message to humanity i.e. Al-Islam, we will find that there are significant differences between the two. These are apart from the fact that those given by God are not subject to change due to whim or desire and that they formed the basis of a civilization which eradicated common problems nowadays such as racism and poverty for over 1300 years under the authority of the Islamic State. This State was ironically destroyed at the hands of the western imperialistic powers such as France and Britain on the 3rd of March 1924.

Islam protects the belief, life, honour, mind and wealth of all citizens as well as ensuring that each individuals needs in terms of food, clothing and shelter are provided for not as a matter of charity but as a matter of divine obligation upon the Islamic State. Countries such as Ethiopia and Sudan flourished in the time of their governance under the divine law enacted by the Islamic State to the extent that they were self sufficient in resources such as food and were even able to provide relief to other nations.

In conclusion...

There is nothing which comes close to the Shari'ah and Islam, however the Shari'ah needs to be implemented in its totality to work and receive the blessings (Baraqa) from Allah. Countries such as Saudia Arabia or Iran may represent and come across as 'Islamic' nations but they are far from Islam and the Shari'ah!


Allah ordered you to return the huquq to the people and if you rule and judge between people, you rule by Shari’ah (i.e. Al Adl - justice).” [EMQ 4: 58]


QUESTION: Is there a country on earth which rules by the Shari'ah?

No. There is no country on earth which implements the Shari'ah, rather they implement man made systems which do not derive from Islam. The systems they rule by are oppressive and unjust, and often permit what Allah (SWT) has made haraam such as Interest, Alcohol and Prostitution.

“Those who do not judge by what Allah has sent down, such people are kafirun..” [EMQ 5:44]

Refer to the Apostasy of the rulers, this article focuses on countries that masquerade under Islam, instead they implement systems such as democracy, other types of man made laws and ideas which are not divine and not from the Qur'an. We can see the effects of legislative law by man in the UK and US. I don't believe I need to elaborate on problems the west faces, as these problems are apparent and in plain sight. and I have named a few above.

QUESTION: What will happen to banks and the current banking system?

The current banking system will be destroyed. When Islam comes into power it will erradicate any system which has any potential to exploit humans. This is the justice of the Shari'ah, we see today across the world, fellow beings are being exploited for their wealth, honour and dignity through prostitution, alcohol and gambling (These are only a select few!). Islam came to establish worship to the only creator Allah (SWT) and stop man from following and worshipping his/hers desires.

The role of banks in Islam will be to collect the nation’s deposits and to also act as a central pool whereby money can be collected and invested in the economy.


- What happens to my old bank notes and currency?

Old bank notes and coins will not be devalued, but will be exchanged with the new notes which replace gold and silver reserves, so that the Khilafah state currency does not get minted and used for other purposes because it belongs to the Ummah and the State.

WE CAN EXPECT THIS IslamIC STATE WHEN JESUS CHRIST COMES BACK, AND WE WAIT FOR HIS RETURN TO THE EARTH.


Prophet Muhammed announced Jesus second coming to the earth to rule with Sharia laws

Abu Huraira reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: By Him in Whose hand is my life, the son of Mary(jesus) (may peace be upon him) will soon descend among you as a just judge. He will break crosses kill swine and abolish Jizya, and the wealth will pour forth to such an extent that no one will accept it. (Sahih Muslim, Vol. 1, p. 92).

From Abu Hurayrah: “The Messenger of God said: How will you be when the son of Mary would descend amongst you and would lead you as one amongst you (fa amma kum min kum)?” So I (Walid bin Muslim) said to Ibn Abi Dhi`b that al-Awza‘i related to us from al-Zuhri from Nafi‘ from Abu Hurayrah the words: “Your leader amongst you (wa imam kum min kum)”. Ibn Abi Dhi`b said: “Do you know what the words: ‘He would be your leader from amongst you (amma kum min kum) mean?’” I said: “Explain these to me.” He said: “He would lead you according to the book of your Lord and the Sunnah of your Messenger (Muslim).

Jesus will lead humanity with sharia laws from Quran and Hadith 

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In (Western) society, there is a race to maintain a basic lifestyle, to provide food, shelter and clothing for you or your family, only to meet the basic necessities. You will see this same behaviour anywhere where the Shari ah is not implemented. To provide even the most basic commodities such as electricity, gas and water it is a hassle and something western democracy has failed to give or provide us even till today, this is why we find the population resorting to crime, effectively leading to mass corruption and depression.

 

Is it in the governments interest to serve God (Allah) or the political elite? With broken families, high rape, paedophilia, massive percentages of alcohol related diseases and deaths, homelessness, obesity. These statistics reflect the success of a government which rules by man made law and it paints a picture that tells us the government only serve the interests of the political elite, including big corporations, banks and man's desires.

Really? What are you using as your source material? Oliver Twist? Even the North Korean propaganda machine would hesitate making statements like this.

 

A U.S. Justice Department report released on November 30 2006 showed that a record 7 million people -- or one in every 32 American adults -- were behind bars, on probation or on parole at the end of last year. Of the total, 2.2 million were in prison or jail.

Statistics also show that Muslims constitute 20% of inmates against 0.8% of general population. Even in the UK the figures are 13% inmates v 5% of population. This also shines an unfavourable light on the argument that you need religion to be moral. Or is it that non-Sharia laws don't apply?

 

Is it in the governments interest to serve God (Allah) or the political elite?

Neither. It is the government's responsibility to serve the people. Few do it particularly well, but that is the only acceptable answer. President José Mujica of Uruguay is the model for all others to follow.

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5. Earth's resources cannot be privatised and sold at extortionate prices

. . . . .

In conclusion...

There is nothing which comes close to the Shari'ah and Islam, however the Shari'ah needs to be implemented in its totality to work and receive the blessings (Baraqa) from Allah. Countries such as Saudia Arabia or Iran may represent and come across as 'Islamic' nations but they are far from Islam and the Shari'ah!

Referring to the implementation of "khomr" which had done by stages, shari'ah need more stages to achieve its totality.

... but then have a look at what the Saudis have done with the Hajj.

and at least we had begun with a thread "Profiteering From Hajj - Started By fathi, Aug 28 2012 06:50 AM".

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[at] QED he is accurate when it comes to individuals in the west having trouble obtaining basic necessities.  I have personally experienced it growing up in the states.  Some states are better than others but as a whole the U.S. not only fails in this aspect but through its capitalist nature breeds the criminals it locks up.  As for Muslims being locked up I would be very interested to see your source.

 

As for what he said regarding shar'ia a lot of it I agree with it although perhaps not the method.  What I want to focus on is the misconceptions when it comes to the punishments.  There is a great deal of misconceptions and sadly enough these misconceptions is not the fault of those that hate Islam but of the so called Islamic states that perpetuate these misconceptions through their practices. 

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he is accurate when it comes to individuals in the west having trouble obtaining basic necessities.

There is no doubt that some individuals, for a variety of reasons, have such problems but it is also clear thet the countries with the highest standards of living and best social care are the least religious/have more secular governments.

Standard of living

Welfare state

 

As for Muslims being locked up I would be very interested to see your source.

UK

USA

 

Interestingly for the "where do we get our morals from" debate, in the US where 2% of the population is atheist, only 0.07% of the prison population is.

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I think more of them are aetheists than anyone realize as a truly religious person would not do what some of them do.  Also it really depends on what they are qualifying as Islam.  Many claim to be Muslim who are part of subgroups or off shoots like the Nation of Islam

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I think more of them are aetheists than anyone realize as a truly religious person would not do what some of them do.  Also it really depends on what they are qualifying as Islam.  Many claim to be Muslim who are part of subgroups or off shoots like the Nation of Islam

This is merely the "no true scotsman" fallacy.

If someone believes in God and believes in a version of HIm according to a particular religion and also claims to follow that faith, then that is what they are. It has been shown that following a particular religion does not prevent someone from behaving in an apalling manner. Conversely, disbelief does not cause someone to behave badly.

 

I do agree that many people who profess to be religious are cultural Muslims, Christians, Jews etc. They were born into a faith and live in a community or country dominated by that faith and have never really questioned their place in that system, but do not follow all the tenets of that faith nor, if questioned, fully support them. In the last UK census one of the questions was "what religion are you?" 61% answered with a specific religion. However, when a follow-up government survey asked the question "are you religious?" only 29% answered "Yes". This suggests that approximately half of those who professed a religion were "cultural" believers. However, there is quite a long step from this to atheism, which involves actually thinking about the evidence and deciding that the position is not supported.

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. . . . . It has been shown that following a particular religion does not prevent someone from behaving in an apalling manner. Conversely, disbelief does not cause someone to behave badly.

 

I think, there are stages of "following", one time it will reach what said as in :

 

Quran : 29. Surah Al-Ankabut (The Spider) : 45. Recite (O Muhammad ) what has been revealed to you of the Book (the Qur'an), and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat ). Verily, As-Salat (the prayer) prevents from Al-Fahsha' (i.e. great sins of every kind, unlawful sexual intercourse, etc.) and Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism, and every kind of evil wicked deed, etc.) and the remembering (praising, etc.) of (you by) Allah (in front of the angels) is greater indeed [than your remembering (praising, etc.) Allah in prayers, etc.]. And Allah knows what you do.

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Very good akhi, indeed many Muslims that I meet that do that which is less desirable have ventured away from the salah.  Also it should be noted that Nation of Islam is considered blasphemous by every Muslim group except them.

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. . . . . have ventured away from the salah.  Also it should be noted that Nation of Islam is considered blasphemous by every Muslim group except them.

And when there is any Al-Munkar then we should do something in three stages : by hand, by words or by thought.

Now adays we are informed about the killing of Camels In Australia ( in fact I heard it since 2005 ].

 

Al-Jazira got award by making a video with Ali S.Hajri as the star/actor/reporter. Shooting toke place at the outback.

I think they're doing the three stages : by hand, by words or by thought.

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